DL new summer 2018 transatlantic flights

panamair · Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:44 pm

http://news.delta.com/delta-s-trans-atl ... stinations

LAX-AMS 4x weekly 77L
LAX-CDG 3x weekly 77L
JFK-LOS 3x weekly A332 - already announced
JFK-PDL(!) 5x weekly 752
AtL-LIS daily 763
DtW-CDG additional daily
IND-CDG daily 763 - already announced
MCO-AMS daily 763 - already announced

ikolkyo · Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:54 pm

Flew DTW-CDG a few weeks ago and my return was cancelled, that flight is very full on both AF and DL so I welcome the 2nd Daily flight.

FlyingHollander · Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:56 pm

I would hate to be on that LAX-AMS flight. Wouldn't be able to sleep at all with a noon departure. I guess you just have to deal with that if you must be in AMS early morning.

B747forever · Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:58 pm

Wow, big news that DL finally will be on LAX-AMS/CDG. The noon departure for both AMS/CDG will be the earliest EU departure, though it will be horrible for jetlag. By the time you arrive early in the morning, it will be 9-10pm LA time and you will be ready for sleep.

lavalampluva · Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:11 pm

Someone will really be happy that DTW is getting another daily international flight.

717atOGG · Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:18 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
Someone will really be happy that DTW is getting another daily international flight.

They'll be upset that they didn't get DTW-DUB or MAN though. Seriously however, great adds for DL and I can imagine that all these flights will do well.

787fan8 · Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:22 pm

Glad to see ATL-LIS. This service should do well considering it's in the summer and the tourists are up and about.

PWMRamper · Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:22 pm

PDL is an out of nowhere add. Very interesting. I'll look forward to non revving on it!

Sightseer · Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:28 pm

Well this is why IND-CDG was going to be loaded on the 23rd, although I'm slightly disappointed AUS-AMS isn't part of this announcement. But conversely ...

panamair wrote:
LAX-AMS 4x weekly 77L
LAX-CDG 3x weekly 77L

It is nice to see DL putting its own metal back into the LAX-EU market, and doing so from a position of strength like UA has done in recent years with its LAX-MEL and -SIN additions. The schedule is set up around the LAX-SYD flight; I haven't checked yet, but I would guess that the plane rotates in CDG/AMS back to another DL hub. Like others have said, though, I wouldn't want to be on those eastbound flights with those times unless I absolutely had to be.

panamair wrote:
JFK-PDL(!) 5x weekly 752

No lie, I had to look up PDL. The ! is warranted, but DL does have a recent history of being in the vanguard when it comes to niche trans-Atlantic flying.

panamair wrote:
AtL-LIS daily 763

Is this in lieu of JFK-LIS or in addition to it? Either way, greater Portugal, if that's the proper term, will be seeing quite the capacity increase to the US next summer, with UA to OPO and DL with PDL and more capacity to LIS (not that I'm complaining).

SRT75 · Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:31 pm

panamair wrote:

LAX-CDG 3x weekly 77L

Here we go again. An American carrier tries to fly to Paris from Los Angeles with its own metal. All have tried. All have failed.

Sightseer · Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:42 pm

SRT75 wrote:
panamair wrote:

LAX-CDG 3x weekly 77L

Here we go again. An American carrier tries to fly to Paris from Los Angeles with its own metal. All have tried. All have failed.

FWIW, none, to my knowledge, have done so with a partner hub on the other end, let alone a JV partner hub. DL may fail too, but it's arguably in the best position for success of any US carrier in recent memory, if not longer.

crazytoaster · Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:45 pm

Wow interesting add to PDL. Is this the first US carrier to serve PDL?

ATL-LIS is also a great add.Both are summer seasonal

usairways85 · Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:52 pm

Quite a bit of capacity add to Portugal in S18
DL: ATL-LIS
AA: PHL-LIS 752>763
UA: EWR-OPO, IAD-LIS

flymco753 · Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:53 pm

I'm pumped for this new MCO-AMS flight, if it does well I suppose more will come, like CDG. Also DL identified MCO as a gateway, wouldn't this practically mean a focus city?

commavia · Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:56 pm

Very cool adds - some interesting new cities and routes, and like some of United's recent announcements, it's impressive to see Delta continuing to leverage its transatlantic gateways (especially JFK) to try out some new and novel markets.

panamair wrote:
LAX-AMS 4x weekly 77L
LAX-CDG 3x weekly 77L

Interesting. This will mark at least the fourth U.S. carrier attempt at making LAX to non-LHR Europe work. I think these make sense given JVs at AMS and CDG. And the schedule seems to be well-slotted to compliment the existing KLM and Air France flights on these routes, and also well-timed for aircraft utilization as the 77Ls turn over LAX to transpacific flights.

panamair wrote:
JFK-PDL(!) 5x weekly 752

That's awesome.

panamair wrote:
AtL-LIS daily 763

Makes sense. Portugal seems to be on a roll with attracting more tourists of late - the country is going to see added capacity from all three U.S. network carriers next summer.

flymco753 · Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:58 pm

717atOGG wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
Someone will really be happy that DTW is getting another daily international flight.

They'll be upset that they didn't get DTW-DUB or MAN though. Seriously however, great adds for DL and I can imagine that all these flights will do well.

If someone isn't excited about a 3rd CDG flight that's not good. That's a big deal, it shows that O&D can support that many flights. DTW-CDG is a growing market whereas AMS is the reciprocal.This flight speaks growth, as the MCO-AMS flight hopefully will too.

FlyRow · Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:01 pm

What is the total number of weekly flights on AMS-LAX? Nearly double daily?

MaxTrimm · Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:05 pm

UA announced EWR-PDL last week. That’s (I’m sure) the reason they are starting it.

FSDan · Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:06 pm

I'm thinking the LAX-CDG/AMS flights are a result of DL working to have enough international arrivals to get preferential use of some TBIT gates. As far as added international capacity goes, this is about as safe as it gets for DL. Does anyone know the hours of the T2 FIS? Will these flights be processed there, or will they somehow be squeezed into TBIT (which I understand is already maxed out)?

I want some more details on the JFK-LHR A330 upgauge. Will they be 332s, 333s, or a mix? My guess would be 332s, but we'll see. Also, will the added DTW-CDG flight be a 330, a 767, or something else?

It's going to be another busy summer for DL's international fleet! It was already pushed to the limits last summer, so maybe we'll see some additional Japan flying cut or a reduction in 767s on JFK-LAX/JFK-SFO to fund these adds.

klm617 · Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:06 pm

717atOGG wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
Someone will really be happy that DTW is getting another daily international flight.

They'll be upset that they didn't get DTW-DUB or MAN though. Seriously however, great adds for DL and I can imagine that all these flights will do well.

Yes a new destination would have been better or even KLM taking over an AMS rotation but an extra CDG from DTW is really no big deal. I suspect maybe they will reduce DTW-AMS by one flight as Delta likes to keep the capacity flat at DTW so every add they is more often than not a reduction.

FSDan · Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:09 pm

MaxTrimm wrote:
UA announced EWR-PDL last week. That’s (I’m sure) the reason they are starting it.

No, they announced EWR-OPO.

LAXSTEW · Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:09 pm

Finally CDG/AMS!! See you on board!!

MaxTrimm · Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:11 pm

FSDan wrote:
MaxTrimm wrote:
UA announced EWR-PDL last week. That’s (I’m sure) the reason they are starting it.

No, they announced EWR-OPO.

That’s what I was thinking! I got the P’s mixed up.

United787 · Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:12 pm

MaxTrimm wrote:
UA announced EWR-PDL last week. That’s (I’m sure) the reason they are starting it.

Are you sure? UA announced EWR-OPO (Porto) last week. OPO and PDL are both technically in Portugal, very different destinations.

Congrats to DL, great to see them thinking out of the box.

RJNUT · Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:22 pm

crazytoaster wrote:
Wow interesting add to PDL. Is this the first US carrier to serve PDL?

ATL-LIS is also a great add.Both are summer seasonal

I believe TWA back in the early 70's served the Azores , but not PDL, but rather the airport at Santa Maria, on a nearby island. It may have also been some sort of US military installation there, if a recall?!

simairlinenet · Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:23 pm

crazytoaster wrote:
Wow interesting add to PDL. Is this the first US carrier to serve PDL?

Depends on how you define the market. Pan Am flew to Horta, Santa Maria, and Terceira in the Azores at different times, but not this airport.

mercure1 · Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:23 pm

AMS/CDG-LAX really is nothing to do with DL somehow wanting to add a Europe-LA flight, but all about the JV desiring more capacity to LAX for S18, and DL having the resources to perform it among partners.
Remember all flying from AMS+CDG are coordinated between partners and equipment and route assignments are adjusted to best match capabilities among partners.

And yes I agree the flight departure timing is pretty poor unless one is looking to make early AM connection via AMS/CDG.

klakzky123 · Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:25 pm

717atOGG wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
Someone will really be happy that DTW is getting another daily international flight.

They'll be upset that they didn't get DTW-DUB or MAN though. Seriously however, great adds for DL and I can imagine that all these flights will do well.

Or that this flight is on DL metal instead of AF. Said person will claim that the fact that DL didn't put this on a JV partner somehow shows that DL is going to slowly eliminate DTW.

Digdas · Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:27 pm

RJNUT wrote:
crazytoaster wrote:
Wow interesting add to PDL. Is this the first US carrier to serve PDL?

ATL-LIS is also a great add.Both are summer seasonal

I believe TWA back in the early 70's served the Azores , but not PDL, but rather the airport at Santa Maria, on a nearby island. It may have also been some sort of US military installation there, if a recall?!

Yep TWA flew to SMA back then.

msycajun · Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:29 pm

Speaking of the JV, seems like DL has been doing most of the adds. Will we see AF/KL take over any existing flying or possibly add new routes of their own to restore the balance? I know there have been a few already AF expanded service to ORD and KL to SLC.

OlympicATH · Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:32 pm

usairways85 wrote:
Quite a bit of capacity add to Portugal in S18
DL: ATL-LIS
AA: PHL-LIS 752>763
UA: EWR-OPO, IAD-LIS

+ DL JFK-PDL, just announced

jbs2886 · Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:39 pm

klakzky123 wrote:
717atOGG wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
Someone will really be happy that DTW is getting another daily international flight.

They'll be upset that they didn't get DTW-DUB or MAN though. Seriously however, great adds for DL and I can imagine that all these flights will do well.

Or that this flight is on DL metal instead of AF. Said person will claim that the fact that DL didn't put this on a JV partner somehow shows that DL is going to slowly eliminate DTW.

Instead they claimed: (1) no big deal (it is) and (2) DL will drop an AMS flight so that it is actually a total reduction in seats. :roll:

PSU.DTW.SCE · Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:41 pm

Remember that anything that feeds AMS CDG or LHR is all highly coordinated under the JV and based on factors around scheduling / hub feed, operations, fleet, marketing, and share.

Saying that DL will fail on the Lax routes is silly because its Jv hub flights

in dtw adding another CDg flight compliments the ams flights because of the heavily banked nature of the hubs they need to connect on both ends.

And klm617 you crack me up. You rant about how they sky is falling and everyone is screwing dtw. Then go silent when WW announces service and say that a third daily cdg flight is no big deal. Seriously?

Dtw CDg was daily at best with nw and wasn't even flown at all some winters in the pre jv era

OA412 · Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:44 pm

Really interesting adds.

Sightseer wrote:
No lie, I had to look up PDL. The ! is warranted, but DL does have a recent history of being in the vanguard when it comes to niche trans-Atlantic flying.

As did I. I'm fairly certain PA served PDL at some point during its existence, so it's certainly been a long time since any US carrier has flown to the Azores.

Sightseer wrote:
FWIW, none, to my knowledge, have done so with a partner hub on the other end, let alone a JV partner hub. DL may fail too, but it's arguably in the best position for success of any US carrier in recent memory, if not longer.

That's correct. UA, AA, and TW all tried LAX-CDG over the years, but none had a partner hub on the CDG end. If DL was trying this on its own, I absolutely agree it would likely bomb just like every attempt before it, but I also agree that DL is now in the best position to actually make LAX-CDG work, so we may actually see US carrier LAX-CDG service stick around.

Midwestindy · Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:50 pm

What's the reason for DL running IND-CDG 5x weekly instead of 3x weekly during the off-peak season....

HeeseokKoo · Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:54 pm

B747forever wrote:
The noon departure for both AMS/CDG will be the earliest EU departure, though it will be horrible for jetlag. By the time you arrive early in the morning, it will be 9-10pm LA time and you will be ready for sleep.

Ready for sleep, but there's still 7+ hours before hotels let us check in. West coasters will feel the same pain east coasters have suffered for decades.

LAXintl · Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:56 pm

FSDan wrote:
I'm thinking the LAX-CDG/AMS flights are a result of DL working to have enough international arrivals to get preferential use of some TBIT gates. As far as added international capacity goes, this is about as safe as it gets for DL.

Flights are a result of the JV wanting more capacity into Los Angeles. Based on their internal schedule coordination they must have determined DL had the aircraft to fit the schedule. Nothing more, nothing less.

FSDan wrote:
Does anyone know the hours of the T2 FIS? Will these flights be processed there, or will they somehow be squeezed into TBIT (which I understand is already maxed out)?

CBP has not published its S18 facility schedule hours yet. Currently, T2 hours are 0630-2000.

jetjack74 · Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:11 pm

Are the LAX-AMS/CDG in addition to current services or are these replacing services operated by AF/KLM?

clrd4t8koff · Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:22 pm

Interesting add for JFK-PDL. It seemed that the Azores was more VFR - Does PDL have much tourism?

BOS/PVD has a large (believe the largest outside of the Azores) Azores ex-pat community, surprised DL didn't do BOS-PDL instead. Would it be too competitive with S4 and that's why they went with JFK?

Midwestindy · Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:25 pm

flymco753 wrote:
I'm pumped for this new MCO-AMS flight, if it does well I suppose more will come, like CDG. Also DL identified MCO as a gateway, wouldn't this practically mean a focus city?

Where did DL identify MCO as a gateway?

KLDC10 · Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:26 pm

klm617 wrote:
717atOGG wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
Someone will really be happy that DTW is getting another daily international flight.

They'll be upset that they didn't get DTW-DUB or MAN though. Seriously however, great adds for DL and I can imagine that all these flights will do well.

Yes a new destination would have been better or even KLM taking over an AMS rotation but an extra CDG from DTW is really no big deal. I suspect maybe they will reduce DTW-AMS by one flight as Delta likes to keep the capacity flat at DTW so every add they is more often than not a reduction.

Do you have actual data which backs up your assertion, or is this simply some sort of weird vendetta against Delta? You can't just spout that the addition of the CDG flight means that there must be a cut somewhere else. That's nonsense.

For what it's worth, DTW is also the first base for the A350, which is the new Flagship of the Delta fleet. That demonstrates considerable commitment to the airport, and the addition of the CDG flight is another demonstration of that commitment.

klm617 · Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:28 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Remember that anything that feeds AMS CDG or LHR is all highly coordinated under the JV and based on factors around scheduling / hub feed, operations, fleet, marketing, and share.

Saying that DL will fail on the Lax routes is silly because its Jv hub flights

in dtw adding another CDg flight compliments the ams flights because of the heavily banked nature of the hubs they need to connect on both ends.

And klm617 you crack me up. You rant about how they sky is falling and everyone is screwing dtw. Then go silent when WW announces service and say that a third daily cdg flight is no big deal. Seriously?

Dtw CDg was daily at best with nw and wasn't even flown at all some winters in the pre jv era

Actually I talked about WW quite a bit you must have missed it. As far as the DTW-CDG add in that whole announcment DTW was the only airport that didn't get any new option just more Delta on an already operated route. JFK and ATL both got new destinations and LAX got a new option DL metal on CDG and AMS. And the jury is still out let's see what DL drops at DTW for the addition of this new flight perhaps a reduction on DTW-AMS or a further reduction on DTW-LHR

Midwestindy · Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:31 pm

klm617 wrote:
As far as the DTW-CDG add in that whole announcment DTW was the only airport that didn't get any new option just more Delta on an already operated route.

I guess SEA, SLC, CVG, BOS, and MSP aren't airports then....

klm617 · Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:31 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
717atOGG wrote:
They'll be upset that they didn't get DTW-DUB or MAN though. Seriously however, great adds for DL and I can imagine that all these flights will do well.

Yes a new destination would have been better or even KLM taking over an AMS rotation but an extra CDG from DTW is really no big deal. I suspect maybe they will reduce DTW-AMS by one flight as Delta likes to keep the capacity flat at DTW so every add they is more often than not a reduction.

Do you have actual data which backs up your assertion, or is this simply some sort of weird vendetta against Delta? You can't just spout that the addition of the CDG flight means that there must be a cut somewhere else. That's nonsense.

For what it's worth, DTW is also the first base for the A350, which is the new Flagship of the Delta fleet. That demonstrates considerable commitment to the airport, and the addition of the CDG flight is another demonstration of that commitment.

Commitment is allowing more JV partners into the Detroit market or expanding the number of destinations that are served. It is just my own perception on what has been shown to us by Delta in the Detroit market. The A350 is a reduction in capacity in the Detroit market so while it maybe the flagship it has really no added value as far as the DTW market is concerned no new destinations added and no extra frequency to make up for the loss of capacity.

klm617 · Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:38 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
klm617 wrote:
As far as the DTW-CDG add in that whole announcment DTW was the only airport that didn't get any new option just more Delta on an already operated route.

I guess SEA, SLC, CVG, BOS, and MSP aren't airports then....

Last year

SEA, got VS
SLC, MSP got KL
BOS got DUB
CVG got nothing correct

Midwestindy · Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:39 pm

klm617 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
klm617 wrote:
As far as the DTW-CDG add in that whole announcment DTW was the only airport that didn't get any new option just more Delta on an already operated route.

I guess SEA, SLC, CVG, BOS, and MSP aren't airports then....

Last year

SEA, got VS
SLC, MSP got KL
BOS got DUB
CVG got nothing correct

Nice try, you mentioned this announcement specifically...

KLDC10 · Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:42 pm

klm617 wrote:
Commitment is allowing more JV partners into the Detroit market or expanding the number of destinations that are served. It is just my own perception on what has been shown to us by Delta in the Detroit market. The A350 is a reduction in capacity in the Detroit market so while it maybe the flagship it has really no added value as far as the DTW market is concerned no new destinations added and no extra frequency to make up for the loss of capacity.

Delta has judged that the current amount of US-Asia capacity is too high. If you examine the fleet plans for the future, you will see that they expect to increase capacity to Europe (A330NEO replacing the 767-300).

The A350-900 will accommodate 306 passengers as follows:
Delta One: 32
Premium Select: 48
Main Cabin: 226
See: https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US ... -a350.html

That means 70 fewer seats per aircraft than the current 747 fleet. That isn't actually a huge reduction in capacity, but it is what the market requires.
Since you mention increasing capacity, note that the addition of an extra CDG flight increases capacity to Europe, which is in line with my earlier comments about Delta's fleet strategy for the future.

Flighty · Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:50 pm

LAXintl wrote:
FSDan wrote:
I'm thinking the LAX-CDG/AMS flights are a result of DL working to have enough international arrivals to get preferential use of some TBIT gates. As far as added international capacity goes, this is about as safe as it gets for DL.

Flights are a result of the JV wanting more capacity into Los Angeles. Based on their internal schedule coordination they must have determined DL had the aircraft to fit the schedule. Nothing more, nothing less.

FSDan wrote:
Does anyone know the hours of the T2 FIS? Will these flights be processed there, or will they somehow be squeezed into TBIT (which I understand is already maxed out)?

CBP has not published its S18 facility schedule hours yet. Currently, T2 hours are 0630-2000.

?? The non-daily aspect, for an organization as large as AF-KL-DL, is baffling to me. I guess it wasn't obvious to me or maybe others: these are MARGINAL ADDS to existing AF-KL-DL joint venture flights that have run on traditional flag carrier metal for years.

RDUDDJI · Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:11 pm

Sightseer wrote:
Well this is why IND-CDG was going to be loaded on the 23rd, although I'm slightly disappointed AUS-AMS isn't part of this announcement.

That flight only operates a few times during SXSW. It would make more sense to advertise for it in Europe which I imagine is the market they're trying to serve with this flight.

klm617 · Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:13 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Commitment is allowing more JV partners into the Detroit market or expanding the number of destinations that are served. It is just my own perception on what has been shown to us by Delta in the Detroit market. The A350 is a reduction in capacity in the Detroit market so while it maybe the flagship it has really no added value as far as the DTW market is concerned no new destinations added and no extra frequency to make up for the loss of capacity.

Delta has judged that the current amount of US-Asia capacity is too high. If you examine the fleet plans for the future, you will see that they expect to increase capacity to Europe (A330NEO replacing the 767-300).

The A350-900 will accommodate 306 passengers as follows:
Delta One: 32
Premium Select: 48
Main Cabin: 226
See: https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US ... -a350.html

That means 70 fewer seats per aircraft than the current 747 fleet. That isn't actually a huge reduction in capacity, but it is what the market requires.
Since you mention increasing capacity, note that the addition of an extra CDG flight increases capacity to Europe, which is in line with my earlier comments about Delta's fleet strategy for the future.

That's not true because over the next 2 years Delta is adding 600 seats in the ATL Asia market. 210 seats a day in a market it a lot that almost 1500 a week in lost revenue that is going to another airport

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net