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Re: :: Chicago Aviation News :: [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:07 am
by Ufsatp
ILS28ORD wrote:
[threeid][/threeid]Why not just build a pre-security people mover (like they currently have) from a western entrance point that terminates where the current CTA "L" station is under the terminal? That way you could park on the western side or get dropped off, take the people mover (train, hyperloop, high speed sled, teleporter, etc) and check in at the existing counters and security checkpoints.

It would eliminate the need for airline specific baggage and check in facilities on the west side, and still provide "western access."


Wouldn’t you have to either tunnel under the field or go around the perimeter to do that? It seems like an awfully expensive option just to shave 20 minutes off the drive for someone coming down the Elgin O’Hare.

Re: :: Chicago Aviation News :: [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:43 am
by FoxtrotSierra
piedmontf284000 wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
Eh, is that really the best they can do? I mean, it doesn't seem like much. It's mostly expanding the existing facilities rather than doing a full demolition and rebuild/reconfiguration (which is needed badly). I would have liked more island concourses. Plus, where is the western access?


Yeah, I suppose that they could have basically shut the entire airport down, leveled it, and completely rebuilt it.

I'm sure the citizens of the Chicago area, corporations headquartered in the city and United/American airlines wouldn't mind at all going 10 years without a major airport....


If they rebuild the airport from scratch, they could move at a much more rapid pace than inching along in sections and it would take a lot less than 10 years. *Sarcasm guys

Re: :: Chicago Aviation News :: [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:52 pm
by ADrum23
FoxtrotSierra wrote:
piedmontf284000 wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
Eh, is that really the best they can do? I mean, it doesn't seem like much. It's mostly expanding the existing facilities rather than doing a full demolition and rebuild/reconfiguration (which is needed badly). I would have liked more island concourses. Plus, where is the western access?


Yeah, I suppose that they could have basically shut the entire airport down, leveled it, and completely rebuilt it.

I'm sure the citizens of the Chicago area, corporations headquartered in the city and United/American airlines wouldn't mind at all going 10 years without a major airport....


If they rebuild the airport from scratch, they could move at a much more rapid pace than inching along in sections and it would take a lot less than 10 years. *Sarcasm guys


In all seriousness, they could have started with all that vacant land to the west after the 32L/14R runway is decommissioned/demolished and then moved east. It would have to be done in phases, but then they could design and build a more modern airport.

Re: :: Chicago Aviation News :: [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:46 pm
by Capn
Is there any news on DL getting any more gates in E in the mean time?
Thanks

Re: Chicago Aviation News

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:19 pm
by ORDfan
Ugh, not sure I really like the idea of designating terminals according to alliances for international flights. I love flying LH to Europe, but dislike having to go through T1 to get to them for departures. Two years ago I remember when QR was in T3, that was another terrible place for them.

There's already some confusion amongst the public for international departures on airlines that depart out of T3 and T5, and I think this would only add to it. It's like the "JFK-ization" of ORD - not a fan. Plus, I think T5 is still too nice to have the LCC in there; would love to see it remain the designated international terminal; get an airside bus or underground rail transfer, and get all the foreign flags back in there.

Here are some pics, courtesy of Pointsguy, of the L gates at T3. Looks pretty nice to me - much nicer in fact that the existing T3 gates, of course. If I were AA, I'd push for the same remodel/treatment of the exiting T3 terminal for their part of the O'hare redevelopment plan.

Image

Image

Source: https://thepointsguy.com/2017/09/aa-new ... n-chicago/

Re: Chicago Aviation News

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:37 pm
by ual763
ORDfan wrote:
Ugh, not sure I really like the idea of designating terminals according to alliances for international flights. I love flying LH to Europe, but dislike having to go through T1 to get to them for departures. Two years ago I remember when QR was in T3, that was another terrible place for them.

There's already some confusion amongst the public for international departures on airlines that depart out of T3 and T5, and I think this would only add to it. It's like the "JFK-ization" of ORD - not a fan. Plus, I think T5 is still too nice to have the LCC in there; would love to see it remain the designated international terminal; get an airside bus or underground rail transfer, and get all the foreign flags back in there.

Here are some pics, courtesy of Pointsguy, of the L gates at T3. Looks pretty nice to me - much nicer in fact that the existing T3 gates, of course. If I were AA, I'd push for the same remodel/treatment of the exiting T3 terminal for their part of the O'hare redevelopment plan.

Image

Image

Source: https://thepointsguy.com/2017/09/aa-new ... n-chicago/


I think with the new plan though, Star Alliance carriers will all depart and arrival in the new Global Terminal, aka T2. As well as all the One World carriers. From what I understand, all of Skyteam will Depart/Arrive from T5. It should help transfers in theory. But, at least airlines won't have to tow intl. arrivals back to their respective departure gate in T1 or T3.

Re: Chicago Aviation News

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:30 am
by CHI787ORD
ual763 wrote:
ORDfan wrote:
Ugh, not sure I really like the idea of designating terminals according to alliances for international flights. I love flying LH to Europe, but dislike having to go through T1 to get to them for departures. Two years ago I remember when QR was in T3, that was another terrible place for them.

There's already some confusion amongst the public for international departures on airlines that depart out of T3 and T5, and I think this would only add to it. It's like the "JFK-ization" of ORD - not a fan. Plus, I think T5 is still too nice to have the LCC in there; would love to see it remain the designated international terminal; get an airside bus or underground rail transfer, and get all the foreign flags back in there.

Here are some pics, courtesy of Pointsguy, of the L gates at T3. Looks pretty nice to me - much nicer in fact that the existing T3 gates, of course. If I were AA, I'd push for the same remodel/treatment of the exiting T3 terminal for their part of the O'hare redevelopment plan.

Image

Image

Source: https://thepointsguy.com/2017/09/aa-new ... n-chicago/


I think with the new plan though, Star Alliance carriers will all depart and arrival in the new Global Terminal, aka T2. As well as all the One World carriers. From what I understand, all of Skyteam will Depart/Arrive from T5. It should help transfers in theory. But, at least airlines won't have to tow intl. arrivals back to their respective departure gate in T1 or T3.


Right, I think the idea here will be that all OneWorld and Star Intl departures and arrivals- including UA and AA will leave from a new Global T2. SkyTeam international departures would be at T5. If anything this will probably mean more consolidation of international departures in one terminal since UA and AA will now use it for their departures.

Re: :: Chicago Aviation News :: [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:44 am
by stlgph
Is it a given Lufthansa, Japan, ANA, etc. won't tow over to T1 and T3 for departures?

And what's this about United and American using T2 for their international departures? If that's the case you might be looking at gate shortages in T2 from day 1, defeating the whole purpose of doing this.

Re: :: Chicago Aviation News :: [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:50 pm
by United787
Thank you ORDfan for the information on the new L gates.

stlgph: I trust that UA, AA and ORD will use of the known stats of how they currently use (and will use in the future) their gates for their international operations and pretty easily figure out what they need from the new T2. The diagram we have seen says nothing about how many T2 gates there will be so speculating that there might be gate shortages without such a lack of information seems a little premature....

Re: :: Chicago Aviation News :: [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:59 pm
by stlgph
An overhaul of T2, no matter how pretty and lovely will still be limited by physical space.
So no, in this context, it isn't premature.

Re: Chicago Aviation News

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:19 pm
by william
ORDfan wrote:
Ugh, not sure I really like the idea of designating terminals according to alliances for international flights. I love flying LH to Europe, but dislike having to go through T1 to get to them for departures. Two years ago I remember when QR was in T3, that was another terrible place for them.

There's already some confusion amongst the public for international departures on airlines that depart out of T3 and T5, and I think this would only add to it. It's like the "JFK-ization" of ORD - not a fan. Plus, I think T5 is still too nice to have the LCC in there; would love to see it remain the designated international terminal; get an airside bus or underground rail transfer, and get all the foreign flags back in there.

Here are some pics, courtesy of Pointsguy, of the L gates at T3. Looks pretty nice to me - much nicer in fact that the existing T3 gates, of course. If I were AA, I'd push for the same remodel/treatment of the exiting T3 terminal for their part of the O'hare redevelopment plan.

Image

Image

Source: https://thepointsguy.com/2017/09/aa-new ... n-chicago/

I like this quote:
"An AA spokesperson mentioned that they’ll get “creative with painting” gate lines… or there might still be a few American Eagle flights operating out of these gates".

Reminds how AA was creative with the MD80 parking at DFW's now Terminal C back in the 80s and 90s. Parking two MD80s in gate area served by multiple jetways. I expect the same 'creative" parking at ORD.

Re: :: Chicago Aviation News :: [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:13 pm
by elbandgeek
The new bridge to expand the security area at MDW broke ground this morning. Project page lists completion winter 2019 which is earlier than I expected. http://www.flychicago.com/sites/midwaym ... fault.aspx

Re: :: Chicago Aviation News :: [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:50 pm
by CHI787ORD
stlgph wrote:
Is it a given Lufthansa, Japan, ANA, etc. won't tow over to T1 and T3 for departures?

And what's this about United and American using T2 for their international departures? If that's the case you might be looking at gate shortages in T2 from day 1, defeating the whole purpose of doing this.


Wouldnt it make sense for UA and AA to use T2 for their international departures, at least for the heavy WBs? That way you wouldn't have to tow back and forth between terminals and it opens space up at T1. I'm imagining something similar to how UA uses both T3 and the International Terminal at SFO for departures. If the post security terminals are all connected airside, its not a big deal.

Re: :: Chicago Aviation News :: [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:11 pm
by william
elbandgeek wrote:
The new bridge to expand the security area at MDW broke ground this morning. Project page lists completion winter 2019 which is earlier than I expected. http://www.flychicago.com/sites/midwaym ... fault.aspx


So how does this help security? The crowds will back up onto a larger pedestrian bridge?

Re: :: Chicago Aviation News :: [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:12 pm
by stlgph
CHI787ORD wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Is it a given Lufthansa, Japan, ANA, etc. won't tow over to T1 and T3 for departures?

And what's this about United and American using T2 for their international departures? If that's the case you might be looking at gate shortages in T2 from day 1, defeating the whole purpose of doing this.


Wouldnt it make sense for UA and AA to use T2 for their international departures, at least for the heavy WBs? That way you wouldn't have to tow back and forth between terminals and it opens space up at T1. I'm imagining something similar to how UA uses both T3 and the International Terminal at SFO for departures. If the post security terminals are all connected airside, its not a big deal.


It entirely depends on the end result of a proposed rebuild of T2, the schematics with the gates, and how deep the relationship is with some airlines to invite them to the party or not.

Re: :: Chicago Aviation News :: [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:38 pm
by CHI2DFW
stlgph wrote:
Is it a given Lufthansa, Japan, ANA, etc. won't tow over to T1 and T3 for departures?

And what's this about United and American using T2 for their international departures? If that's the case you might be looking at gate shortages in T2 from day 1, defeating the whole purpose of doing this.


They tow over today. Having * and 1 carriers at T3 would be great!

Re: :: Chicago Aviation News :: [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:44 am
by elbandgeek
william wrote:
elbandgeek wrote:
The new bridge to expand the security area at MDW broke ground this morning. Project page lists completion winter 2019 which is earlier than I expected. http://www.flychicago.com/sites/midwaym ... fault.aspx


So how does this help security? The crowds will back up onto a larger pedestrian bridge?


The terminal as it is opened only a few months before 9/11 and the security area has since slowly crept further and further into the airside space, taking over the food court as well as the corridor down toward concourse C. The bridge is expanding from 50 feet wide to 400, almost to the point where it's less of a bridge and more continuous with the terminal buildings that cars happen to drive underneath. This will allow them to fit more lanes into a more streamlined space that shouldn't bottleneck the way it current does. On top of that, all the space security is currently taking up in the food court will be freed up for expanded concessions.

EDIT: Ignore my bad drawing I need to replace the battery on my surface pen so I used my finger. The black box is approximately the area the bridge will take up. Purple is the current security layout and orange is the current queue. In the new layout there will be no more backups over the bridge because you enter and go right into a much more spacious queue, the blue line.
Image

Re: :: Chicago Aviation News :: [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:25 am
by william
elbandgeek wrote:
william wrote:
elbandgeek wrote:
The new bridge to expand the security area at MDW broke ground this morning. Project page lists completion winter 2019 which is earlier than I expected. http://www.flychicago.com/sites/midwaym ... fault.aspx


So how does this help security? The crowds will back up onto a larger pedestrian bridge?


The terminal as it is opened only a few months before 9/11 and the security area has since slowly crept further and further into the airside space, taking over the food court as well as the corridor down toward concourse C. The bridge is expanding from 50 feet wide to 400, almost to the point where it's less of a bridge and more continuous with the terminal buildings that cars happen to drive underneath. This will allow them to fit more lanes into a more streamlined space that shouldn't bottleneck the way it current does. On top of that, all the space security is currently taking up in the food court will be freed up for expanded concessions.

EDIT: Ignore my bad drawing I need to replace the battery on my surface pen so I used my finger. The black box is approximately the area the bridge will take up. Purple is the current security layout and orange is the current queue. In the new layout there will be no more backups over the bridge because you enter and go right into a much more spacious queue, the blue line.
Image


Thank you, it makes sense now.

Re: :: Chicago Aviation News :: [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:26 pm
by United787
I know your drawing is rough but that bridge seems like an enormous overkill, no? I agree that the security area was undersized and needs to be larger, but 5 times larger?

Re: :: Chicago Aviation News :: [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:35 pm
by stlgph
The current bridge is 50 feet wide. The new one will be 400.

Re: :: Chicago Aviation News :: [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:01 pm
by United787
I stand corrected, 8 times larger!!!

Re: :: Chicago Aviation News :: [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:09 pm
by stlgph
:)

The expansion for security is desperately needed. Now let's hope there are actual additional working lanes, rather than just having it be all for show. I've not seen a final blueprint but I do hope it means there can be an expansion of security options. Not sure why the airport took away McDonald's and Potbelly's and replaced it with ....crap, but whatever. That's a whole other discussion for a whole other day.

Re: :: Chicago Aviation News :: [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:53 pm
by ORDfan
United787 wrote:
I know your drawing is rough but that bridge seems like an enormous overkill, no? I agree that the security area was undersized and needs to be larger, but 5 times larger?


Totally agree - seems to be a bit overdone. I know Midway has received a fair amount of criticism for long security delays, but personally, I've never experienced wait times to be more than 15-20 minutes when I fly out of MDW. Certainly not to the point where I thought such a large expansion was necessary; I'm there maybe every month or so for domestic weekend jaunts. Oh well, I guess its good the city is investing in the other Chicago airport for future growth.

stlgph wrote:
The expansion for security is desperately needed. Now let's hope there are actual additional working lanes, rather than just having it be all for show. I've not seen a final blueprint but I do hope it means there can be an expansion of security options. Not sure why the airport took away McDonald's and Potbelly's and replaced it with ....crap, but whatever. That's a whole other discussion for a whole other day.


My personal experience has differed dramatically. I would go so far as to say MDW is one of the easier airports domestically (for its size/scale) to get through security relatively quickly. There's still several McDonalds's past the food court area; I believe the city wanted fewer national chains in the food hall and more local fair, although ironically both McDonalds and Potbelly are Chicago-based.

Re: Chicago Aviation News [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:01 pm
by ORDfan
Some renderings and video posted below. Actually, have to say, it looks quite good...plenty of natural light in the security hall with the skylights..

Image

Image

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... 0icKg7KeAw

Re: :: Chicago Aviation News :: [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:38 pm
by Frenchify
ORDfan wrote:
United787 wrote:
I know your drawing is rough but that bridge seems like an enormous overkill, no? I agree that the security area was undersized and needs to be larger, but 5 times larger?


Totally agree - seems to be a bit overdone. I know Midway has received a fair amount of criticism for long security delays, but personally, I've never experienced wait times to be more than 15-20 minutes when I fly out of MDW. Certainly not to the point where I thought such a large expansion was necessary; I'm there maybe every month or so for domestic weekend jaunts. Oh well, I guess its good the city is investing in the other Chicago airport for future growth.

stlgph wrote:
The expansion for security is desperately needed. Now let's hope there are actual additional working lanes, rather than just having it be all for show. I've not seen a final blueprint but I do hope it means there can be an expansion of security options. Not sure why the airport took away McDonald's and Potbelly's and replaced it with ....crap, but whatever. That's a whole other discussion for a whole other day.


My personal experience has differed dramatically. I would go so far as to say MDW is one of the easier airports domestically (for its size/scale) to get through security relatively quickly. There's still several McDonalds's past the food court area; I believe the city wanted fewer national chains in the food hall and more local fair, although ironically both McDonalds and Potbelly are Chicago-based.


McDonald's and Potbelly's closed, which makes zero sense. The airport desperately needs MORE quick serve restaurants, not less.

Security at Midway - not sure when you fly, it has changed in the past few years for the worse for me. They could easily do with another 4 or 5 full time security lanes, so to me, the expansion is far from overdoing it.

Re: Chicago Aviation News [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:19 am
by ILS28ORD
Now only if there were a way to add more gates. I'm sure if there were, WN would gladly utilize them. 31R/13L is never used for any commercial operations and I personally have never seen it used for any traffic other than as a taxiway back to the terminal from 31/13C. Why not demolish it, replace it with a taxiway and put an island terminal at the southeast end where 31R starts (parallel with 31/31C)? They could probably squeeze 8-10 gates into there and it would be easy to connect via bridge or underground walkway to the end of concourse A/B.

Re: Chicago Aviation News [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:59 pm
by United787
ORDfan wrote:
Some renderings and video posted below.


Thank you for sharing! I like airy bright design but the ceiling seems really low above the security area.

Re: Chicago Aviation News [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:03 pm
by stlgph
United787 wrote:
ORDfan wrote:
Some renderings and video posted below.


Thank you for sharing! I like airy bright design but the ceiling seems really low above the security area.


Cameras?

Re: Chicago Aviation News [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:21 pm
by ORDfan
http://www.flychicago.com/business/medi ... ewsid=1425

Good news on the cargo front too for O'hare; definitely corroborates strong growth continuing this year. Domestic freight tonnage up 22.7% YTD and international tonnage up 16% YTD per Air Traffic Data.

Re: Chicago Aviation News [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:37 pm
by United787
That is some pretty impressive growth, thanks for sharing!

I have been wondering how the new cargo facility is coming along but with the Google Maps satellite image being so old it is still a dirt patch.

Re: Chicago Aviation News [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:45 pm
by United787
Also, I noticed that large hanger is being constructed northwest of 9R/27L. Is this the one for AA?

http://chicagoconstructionnews.com/w-e- ... -at-ohare/

It is enormous! Where is it going, adjacent to and southwest of AA's Hangar #1? Is it being built to replace the other AA hangar to the south assuming that one has to be removed to accommodate the future 9C/27C? Will UA have to also build a new hangar to replaced #5A?

What about the other buildings in the way of 9C/27C? Gate Gourmet, Swissport, AA'sFacility, UA's Facility & Fire Rescue #2

Re: Chicago Aviation News [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:53 pm
by DC8FanJet
United787 wrote:
Also, I noticed that large hanger is being constructed northwest of 9R/27L. Is this the one for AA?

http://chicagoconstructionnews.com/w-e- ... -at-ohare/

It is enormous! Where is it going, adjacent to and southwest of AA's Hangar #1? Is it being built to replace the other AA hangar to the south assuming that one has to be removed to accommodate the future 9C/27C? Will UA have to also build a new hangar to replaced #5A?

What about the other buildings in the way of 9C/27C? Gate Gourmet, Swissport, AA'sFacility, UA's Facility & Fire Rescue #2


All will be relocated to new construction.

Re: The Illinois State Thread

Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:34 am
by strfyr51
kordcj wrote:
727LOVER wrote:
When there is one VERY large market in a state....isn't it better to separate it from the rest of the state?

But anyway...is B6 still trying to secure more gates @ ORD?


I believe the numerous attempts to have a Chicago thread have never panned out. For whatever reason, the Chicago airports aren’t as popular as everywhere else.

This is the first I’ve heard of B6 trying to secure more gates at ORD. I was under the impression that they struggle to make the markets they are flying work.

B6 has been using gates on the international terminal. as well as F9, I saw them on the gates on the tramway from the remote parking lot (now I see the Tramway is closed for expansion to the New parking garage across the freeway. Glad I no longer have to sprint for the terminal when I go home.

Re: Chicago Aviation News [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:47 pm
by ZBA2CGX
Coming construction woes on expansion.
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/ ... n-airlines

Re: Chicago Aviation News [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:46 pm
by United787
ZBA2CGX wrote:
Coming construction woes on expansion.
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/ ... n-airlines


I am optimistic that UA and AA will agree to this expansion. If they don't, then I think ORD should work out a deal with B6, NK, F9, AS & DL for an expansion for them only.

Re: Chicago Aviation News [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:03 pm
by stlgph
Don't get me wrong, O'Hare is still a beast and serves air travel well, but it amazes me how United has just let their home hub fall behind other terminal expansion projects at other airports, and just seems to have no motivation to get out of bed here.

I will also state, from my own observation, American will only act if United acts.

Re: Chicago Aviation News [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:08 pm
by ADrum23
United787 wrote:
ZBA2CGX wrote:
Coming construction woes on expansion.
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/ ... n-airlines


I am optimistic that UA and AA will agree to this expansion. If they don't, then I think ORD should work out a deal with B6, NK, F9, AS & DL for an expansion for them only.


They better get something going, it is appalling how much ORD has fallen behind. At least the 9-gate expansion to Terminal 5 should happen regardless, but the Terminal 2 rebuild is desperately needed, so I don't think they will fail to act. As long as some sort of western access is incorporated into whatever they end up doing, I am good.

Re: Chicago Aviation News [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:10 pm
by ADrum23
stlgph wrote:
Don't get me wrong, O'Hare is still a beast and serves air travel well, but it amazes me how United has just let their home hub fall behind other terminal expansion projects at other airports, and just seems to have no motivation to get out of bed here.

I will also state, from my own observation, American will only act if United acts.


Has United done significant terminal revamps at their other hubs?

I don't understand why ORD has been neglected so much.

Re: Chicago Aviation News [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:15 pm
by stlgph
They have made improvements at their airports across the system, but let's face it while $150 million is a healthy chunk of change, when spread across many projects, it won't get you that far in Newark or Houston, nothing on the scale of the LGA rebuild or the T4 project at JFK.

Re: Chicago Aviation News [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:58 am
by ORDfan
ADrum23 wrote:
United787 wrote:
ZBA2CGX wrote:
Coming construction woes on expansion.
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/ ... n-airlines


I am optimistic that UA and AA will agree to this expansion. If they don't, then I think ORD should work out a deal with B6, NK, F9, AS & DL for an expansion for them only.


They better get something going, it is appalling how much ORD has fallen behind. At least the 9-gate expansion to Terminal 5 should happen regardless, but the Terminal 2 rebuild is desperately needed, so I don't think they will fail to act. As long as some sort of western access is incorporated into whatever they end up doing, I am good.


Western access is 90% complete and the final leg into the airport is practically a done deal. Photos in the link shows the ramp across York Rd is prepped for paving going into the airfield. In a few years, I-390 should run straight through. Whether there is a terminal at the end of it remains to be seen. For now, parking and people mover are talked.

https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/2017110 ... ew-highway

Read on it dnainfo while you still can!

Otherwise, I don't think ORD is that far behind other major US hubs. Is it behind some of the new Euro or Asian hubs, ya...but I don't think its behind JFK, EWR, LAX, IAD, or DFW. SFO International terminal is nice but the domestic terminals don't exactly impress.

Re: Chicago Aviation News [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:22 am
by ADrum23
ORDfan wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
United787 wrote:

I am optimistic that UA and AA will agree to this expansion. If they don't, then I think ORD should work out a deal with B6, NK, F9, AS & DL for an expansion for them only.


They better get something going, it is appalling how much ORD has fallen behind. At least the 9-gate expansion to Terminal 5 should happen regardless, but the Terminal 2 rebuild is desperately needed, so I don't think they will fail to act. As long as some sort of western access is incorporated into whatever they end up doing, I am good.


Western access is 90% complete and the final leg into the airport is practically a done deal. Photos in the link shows the ramp across York Rd is prepped for paving going into the airfield. In a few years, I-390 should run straight through. Whether there is a terminal at the end of it remains to be seen. For now, parking and people mover are talked.


The plans for IL-390 (the 390 portion is technically a state road, not an Interstate, the article gets that wrong) have it ending at the new western bypass (future I-490). According to the renderings on the Illinois Tollway website, only an access ramp from York Road will go onto airport property, IL-390 will not go directly in (this is presumably due to the uncertainty regarding what will happen on the west side of the airport). I doubt there will be a full-blown western terminal with gates, but there should be some facility that offers parking, check in and security with people movers to the existing terminal. This will allow people to use IL-390 to get into O'Hare and avoid the congested I-190 eastern entrance.

All in all, they need to get something going here soon, hopefully we will be seeing an announcement on a new lease agreement with UA and AA.

Re: Chicago Aviation News [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:51 pm
by kngkyle
L stinger gates progress, compliments of the Chicago Aviation Fans facebook group. The progress has been quick, construction began at the start of this year and will be largely finished by the end of the year.

Image

Re: Chicago Aviation News [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:12 am
by ILS28ORD
I wonder if the western access people mover will connect all terminals including T5 post security. (Since T5 won't be solely international anymore.) It would be smart to do so, and build it so when the terminals are expanded, however that ends up being configured, the people mover is already in place to connect those as well to the existing terminals. I'm sure no one likes having to go through security again when going from T1/2/3 to T5, or T5 to T1/2/3.

It also wouldn't make sense to clear security at the western entrance and take the new people mover only to have to exit security at T1/2/3 and take the separate, existing pre security people mover to T5 and go through security for a second time.

Re: Chicago Aviation News [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:33 am
by CHI787ORD
ORDfan wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
United787 wrote:
. SFO International terminal is nice but the domestic terminals don't exactly impress.


Maybe its been some time since you've been to SFO. T2 and even T3 are quite nice now actually. Lots of money has been spent over the past 5-7 years on terminal refurbishment and reconstruction.

Re: Chicago Aviation News [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:37 am
by kngkyle
ILS28ORD wrote:
I wonder if the western access people mover will connect all terminals including T5 post security. (Since T5 won't be solely international anymore.) It would be smart to do so, and build it so when the terminals are expanded, however that ends up being configured, the people mover is already in place to connect those as well to the existing terminals. I'm sure no one likes having to go through security again when going from T1/2/3 to T5, or T5 to T1/2/3.

It also wouldn't make sense to clear security at the western entrance and take the new people mover only to have to exit security at T1/2/3 and take the separate, existing pre security people mover to T5 and go through security for a second time.


What western access people mover? That is news to me.

Re: Chicago Aviation News [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:10 am
by ILS28ORD
kngkyle wrote:
ILS28ORD wrote:
I wonder if the western access people mover will connect all terminals including T5 post security. (Since T5 won't be solely international anymore.) It would be smart to do so, and build it so when the terminals are expanded, however that ends up being configured, the people mover is already in place to connect those as well to the existing terminals. I'm sure no one likes having to go through security again when going from T1/2/3 to T5, or T5 to T1/2/3.

It also wouldn't make sense to clear security at the western entrance and take the new people mover only to have to exit security at T1/2/3 and take the separate, existing pre security people mover to T5 and go through security for a second time.


What western access people mover? That is news to me.


The one mentioned as a possibility in the dnainfo article linked above, in addition to western security and western parking..

Re: Chicago Aviation News [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:40 am
by kngkyle
ILS28ORD wrote:
kngkyle wrote:
ILS28ORD wrote:
I wonder if the western access people mover will connect all terminals including T5 post security. (Since T5 won't be solely international anymore.) It would be smart to do so, and build it so when the terminals are expanded, however that ends up being configured, the people mover is already in place to connect those as well to the existing terminals. I'm sure no one likes having to go through security again when going from T1/2/3 to T5, or T5 to T1/2/3.

It also wouldn't make sense to clear security at the western entrance and take the new people mover only to have to exit security at T1/2/3 and take the separate, existing pre security people mover to T5 and go through security for a second time.


What western access people mover? That is news to me.


The one mentioned as a possibility in the dnainfo article linked above, in addition to western security and western parking..


Ah, thanks. I missed that somehow.

I'm of the belief that western access was only a carrot used by the city to get the western suburbs on board with the expansion plan. I don't think it was ever really in the cards and I don't think that has changed. There was no mention of it in the O'Hare 21 plan from a few months ago. Western access doesn't benefit the city so I don't see them trying to strongarm the airlines into paying for it and the city certainly isn't going to pay for it. Never going to happen imo.

Re: Chicago Aviation News [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:45 am
by ILS28ORD
If some sort of western compromise isn't reached there are going to be plenty of pissed off towns/cities/counties that will rightfully feel duped. Plus what is the point of the eastern I-390 extension? It would be a huge waste of money already spent to not have some kind of western access.

I'm not sure the state would allow the city to screw the western suburbs. I don't know where the money for the 390 extension came from but Id be willing to bet the city of Chicago did not pay for that, was it state tax payer funded? That would be where I see the state of Illinois stepping in and demanding some kind of western airport entrance. The city may not have investmented to the west, but many other people in the state have.

Re: Chicago Aviation News [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:01 am
by usxguy
Lort. Interesting to see Midway change. I remember the days of the OLD terminal, when ATA was the dominant player, and everyone boarded from ground-level hold rooms. I even remember Southwest having one gate dedicated to the Cubs and White Sox!

Re: Chicago Aviation News [Sep 29]: 30 New Gates

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:07 am
by ADrum23
ILS28ORD wrote:
If some sort of western compromise isn't reached there are going to be plenty of pissed off towns/cities/counties that will rightfully feel duped. Plus what is the point of the eastern I-390 extension? It would be a huge waste of money already spent to not have some kind of western access.

I'm not sure the state would allow the city to screw the western suburbs. I don't know where the money for the 390 extension came from but Id be willing to bet the city of Chicago did not pay for that, was it state tax payer funded? That would be where I see the state of Illinois stepping in and demanding some kind of western airport entrance. The city may not have investmented to the west, but many other people in the state have.


The IL-390 extension and the I-490 West Bypass connecting I-90 to I-294 is an Illinois Tollway project. Because IDOT is absolutely incompetent and broke, the state had the tollway take over the project to get it completed, including tolling the existing portion of IL-390 (formerly the Elgin-O'Hare Expressway). The current plans (see the document below) have an access ramp going from York Road onto airport property, but IL-390 proper won't right now.

https://www.illinoistollway.com/documents/20184/239152/4_EOWA_ConceptPlan_WesternAccess_I-294/66b561cc-8d23-43cd-8756-80d3334d646d?version=1.0

As you can see, there is plenty of land. The concept above has some sort of western facility there. I'm not sure if that is suppose to be a terminal or a parking garage or what. If the airlines don't want a western terminal, fine, but there is still no reason they can't put parking garages/security screening facilities with people movers to the existing (rebuilt and expanded) terminals. Opening up the west side of ORD to access would be huge for the region.