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KarelXWB
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KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:24 am

Although nobody got hurt, JTSB has classified this as a serious incident:

A panel (1 m x 0.6 m, 4.3 kg) of the right wing trailing edge fell off from a Boeing 777-200ER of KLM operated as flight KL/KLM868 from Osaka/Kansai, Japan to Amsterdam/Schiphol, the Netherlands at 2400 m (about 8000 feet) of altitude over Osaka prefecture, Japan.

The panel hit the roof of a driving car, made a dent on the roof and cracked a rear window of the car. Neither of two occupants of the car nor 321 occupants of Boeing was injured. The flight has reached to the destination without further trouble. JTSB launched an investigation as a serious incident.


Story
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=199928

Image
https://twitter.com/harro/status/911853848154820609
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scbriml
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:00 am

I wonder what they mean by "wing panel" because I don't think there's any blue paint on the 777's wing. Maybe they mean the wing fairing?

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WPvsMW
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:09 am

The dark blue line on KL frames ... is only on the fuselage.
 
unimproved
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:23 am

It's part of the faring between the fuselage and wing.
Image

Somebody will have a very bad day today, as it is not a service panel and is held in place by screws. Either forgot to reinstall or used wrong screws.
 
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zeke
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:56 am

That looks about the size of the access panel that is on the rear fuselage of the A330 where the FDR is kept. Does the 777 have a similar access panel ?
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unimproved
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:10 am

zeke wrote:
That looks about the size of the access panel that is on the rear fuselage of the A330 where the FDR is kept. Does the 777 have a similar access panel ?

On the bottom left in the picture you can see it isn't completely flat. This is where it attaches to the wing.
 
Theseus
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:36 am

unimproved wrote:
zeke wrote:
That looks about the size of the access panel that is on the rear fuselage of the A330 where the FDR is kept. Does the 777 have a similar access panel ?

On the bottom left in the picture you can see it isn't completely flat. This is where it attaches to the wing.


Actually, looking at the picture and the shape of the part (with only the bottom of the white part not completely flat), I would guess it is slightly behind the 3R door. Is there something special around there ?
 
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:32 am

Theseus wrote:
unimproved wrote:
zeke wrote:
That looks about the size of the access panel that is on the rear fuselage of the A330 where the FDR is kept. Does the 777 have a similar access panel ?

On the bottom left in the picture you can see it isn't completely flat. This is where it attaches to the wing.


Actually, looking at the picture and the shape of the part (with only the bottom of the white part not completely flat), I would guess it is slightly behind the 3R door. Is there something special around there ?

Behind the 3R door is part of the fuselage. The "bubble" under it is the last part of the center wing box.

Around the wing you have some unpressurised aerodynamic fairing, which connects the wing with the fuselage. Here it can be seen in white (under the overwing exit on the 77W):
Image
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:45 am

Now I understand why it didn't kill anyone. A thin, flat, lightweight piece of aluminium like that would flutter all over the place and quickly lose it's forward velocity and then fall down relatively slowly and more or less vertically carried by the wind.
 
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:57 am

unimproved wrote:
It's part of the faring between the fuselage and wing.
Image

Somebody will have a very bad day today, as it is not a service panel and is held in place by screws. Either forgot to reinstall or used wrong screws.


Reminds me of British Airways 5390 when the cockpit window of the BAC 1-11 blew out due to incorrect screw sizes. This recent KLM incident could have been a lot worse had the panel been elsewhere.
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777atech
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:22 pm

Looks like a wing to body panel, most likely composite. The strange part is, I see no damage at fastener locations which is unusual. The panel looks in pretty good shape considering what it went through. Clearly, it didn't hit anything when it came off otherwise there would be obvious signs....
 
MartijnNL
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:11 pm

Great souvenir for the driver of the car that got hit! ;)
 
brilondon
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:26 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
Great souvenir for the driver of the car that got hit! ;)

As long as they like airplanes and don't file a lawsuit against KL.
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FlyHappy
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:44 pm

777atech wrote:
Looks like a wing to body panel, most likely composite. The strange part is, I see no damage at fastener locations which is unusual. The panel looks in pretty good shape considering what it went through. Clearly, it didn't hit anything when it came off otherwise there would be obvious signs....


It is weird right? As if all the fasteners released simultaneously or weren't there at all. Strange.
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:13 pm

Just to make things clear; it looks to be this panel:

Image

Sourche of the photo:

Image
KLM 777-200ER braking action by Nicky Boogaard, on Flickr
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o0OOO0oChris
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:45 pm

I just found this comment on AVHerald:
Panel 198AR
This panel is part of the faring between fuselage and wing and its only purpose is to make the aircraft more aerodynamically. It is not part of any structure and therefore not endangering a safe operation of the flight.

The panel has a lot of screws, but not in the upper right corner due to the proximity to the fuselage. There is not enough room for the brackets which are placed underneath to which this panel is attached. In a very unlike circumstance the upper right corner might 'catch wind' and could break off. This has happened with other Boeing 777's and this time it was KLM.

Could this be true? A panel design lacking screws for 100% failsafe attachment? Hard to believe.
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:30 pm

Iemand91 wrote:
Just to make things clear; it looks to be this panel:

Image

Sourche of the photo:

Image
KLM 777-200ER braking action by Nicky Boogaard, on Flickr


It is: https://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/li ... 7#52690967
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
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ssteve
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:18 pm

I guess if someone calls a plane flaky, you can take them literally.
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:37 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
Great souvenir for the driver of the car that got hit! ;)


I'd like to hang that on the wall in my airplane man-cave! :thumbsup:
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FlyRow
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:37 pm

brilondon wrote:
MartijnNL wrote:
Great souvenir for the driver of the car that got hit! ;)

As long as they like airplanes and don't file a lawsuit against KL.


We don't all have the USA-lawsuit-mentality

OT:
This could have been much worse, for a airline with the safety-standards of KLM this must be a shock. Let's hope it's not a big problem and KLM will learn from this!
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Waterbomber
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:52 pm

FlyRow wrote:
brilondon wrote:
MartijnNL wrote:
Great souvenir for the driver of the car that got hit! ;)

As long as they like airplanes and don't file a lawsuit against KL.


We don't all have the USA-lawsuit-mentality

OT:
This could have been much worse, for a airline with the safety-standards of KLM this must be a shock. Let's hope it's not a big problem and KLM will learn from this!


What do you base on to assume that KLM has better safety standards than any other airline?


I don't know if it's the case on the B777 and/or the specific panels, but on many aircraft types, such fairing panels have sealant applied to them on the inner surfaces' edges to make them more aerodynamic, but it makes them a b*tch to remove during maintenance because you can't just go in there with your cutter knife and start scratching the fuselage. Either they applied the sealant and they forgot about the screws and went for the coffee break and forgot about it, or they forgot the sealant, or put the wrong or not enough screws, or Boeing needs to issue an AD because this could have killed somebody on the ground.
 
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FlyRow
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:59 pm

I don't.... But KLM is well known as a safe airline with an excellent safety record, nothing more nothing less. This incident doens't fit a modern, first world airline....could have said the same about Delta and/or Emirates.
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sw733
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:07 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
Now I understand why it didn't kill anyone. A thin, flat, lightweight piece of aluminium like that would flutter all over the place and quickly lose it's forward velocity and then fall down relatively slowly and more or less vertically carried by the wind.

Good thing it wasn't a pedestrian; definitely still could have killed one easily.
 
727200
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:16 pm

How many points do they get for that one?
 
anstar
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:35 pm

FlyRow wrote:
I don't.... But KLM is well known as a safe airline with an excellent safety record, nothing more nothing less. This incident doens't fit a modern, first world airline....could have said the same about Delta and/or Emirates.


Whilst I don't dispute KLM have a good safety record in recent times it is worth remembering the largest aviation disaster in history did involve KLM with the loss of 583 lives.
 
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:51 pm

anstar wrote:
FlyRow wrote:
I don't.... But KLM is well known as a safe airline with an excellent safety record, nothing more nothing less. This incident doens't fit a modern, first world airline....could have said the same about Delta and/or Emirates.


Whilst I don't dispute KLM have a good safety record in recent times it is worth remembering the largest aviation disaster in history did involve KLM with the loss of 583 lives.


Your point?
 
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:00 pm

100s of panels depart planes, they are designed to safely depart. British AAIB studied ~5000 such events.

This is news because it happened in Japan. KLM's stance with JTSB should be it is the line mx under JCAB jurisdiction last touched the plane, otherwise, JCAB/JTSB will be all over KLM with their superiority complex. Sure, the airline has the responsibility but that logic won't work here.
 
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:12 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
100s of panels depart planes, they are designed to safely depart.


Designed to safely depart? What happens if it falls on someone's head and not on a car (which I'm also surprised had minimal damage considering the circumstances)?
 
anstar
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:22 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
anstar wrote:
FlyRow wrote:
I don't.... But KLM is well known as a safe airline with an excellent safety record, nothing more nothing less. This incident doens't fit a modern, first world airline....could have said the same about Delta and/or Emirates.


Whilst I don't dispute KLM have a good safety record in recent times it is worth remembering the largest aviation disaster in history did involve KLM with the loss of 583 lives.


Your point?


My Point is that a previous poster said KLM had an excellent safety record. Its not exactly excellent if one of your flight crews took off with out permission and were then involved in aviations worst accidents!
 
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ssteve
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:56 pm

anstar wrote:
My Point is that a previous poster said KLM had an excellent safety record. Its not exactly excellent if one of your flight crews took off with out permission and were then involved in aviations worst accidents!


How many decades must pass before that's irrelevant? Because it's basically irrelevant, in my opinion. It's like taking United to task for running out of gas over Portland, which happened a bit over a year after Tenerife. If you posted about that in all the "United sucks" threads, even the most ardent United haters would probably wonder what cave you've been living in.
 
anstar
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:20 pm

ssteve wrote:
anstar wrote:
My Point is that a previous poster said KLM had an excellent safety record. Its not exactly excellent if one of your flight crews took off with out permission and were then involved in aviations worst accidents!


How many decades must pass before that's irrelevant? Because it's basically irrelevant, in my opinion. It's like taking United to task for running out of gas over Portland, which happened a bit over a year after Tenerife. If you posted about that in all the "United sucks" threads, even the most ardent United haters would probably wonder what cave you've been living in.


Wow. 583 lives lost are irrelevant?
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:29 pm

anstar wrote:
ssteve wrote:
anstar wrote:
My Point is that a previous poster said KLM had an excellent safety record. Its not exactly excellent if one of your flight crews took off with out permission and were then involved in aviations worst accidents!


How many decades must pass before that's irrelevant? Because it's basically irrelevant, in my opinion. It's like taking United to task for running out of gas over Portland, which happened a bit over a year after Tenerife. If you posted about that in all the "United sucks" threads, even the most ardent United haters would probably wonder what cave you've been living in.


Wow. 583 lives lost are irrelevant?


You seriously gonna try and act like he is saying that? What he is saying is that the crash is irrelevant to the recent safety record of KLM. That crash was 40 years ago.
 
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FlyRow
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:31 pm

That's not what he says... But on your terms nearly no modern airline with a age is safe... You are judging an airline for a (terrible, yes) inciddent years ago, which changed aviation for the better...likewise many other incidentes created a much safer world...

Simply, KLM has an excellent safety record, with only accident after 1970 (Tenerife)... I really wonder what you call a safe airline otherwise.. KLM hasn't had a fatality for 40yrs..

Please name a airline that you call safe then...
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aeromoe
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:40 pm

This shouldn't be about KLM...they didn't design the 777 nor the panel that departed the plane.
AA AC AS BA BD BF BN BR BY B6 CO CP(2) DG DL EA EI EN FL FT F9 HA HP ICX JI JQ J7 KE KS LH MC NW OC OO OZ(1) OZ(2) PA PI PT QF QQ RM RO RV(1) RV(2) RW SK SM SQ S4 TI TS TW UA UK US UZ VS VX WA WN WS W7 XV YV YX(2) ZZ 9K
 
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FlyRow
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:46 pm

aeromoe wrote:
This shouldn't be about KLM...they didn't design the 777 nor the panel that departed the plane.


They do maintain the plane, and that was my point. Regardless of whose fault it is (KLM / Boeing / mistake by ground crew / whatever) ... the reason should be found.
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32andBelow
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:12 pm

FlyRow wrote:
aeromoe wrote:
This shouldn't be about KLM...they didn't design the 777 nor the panel that departed the plane.


They do maintain the plane, and that was my point. Regardless of whose fault it is (KLM / Boeing / mistake by ground crew / whatever) ... the reason should be found.

Of course the reason will be found. Someone will be held at fault and if it s a design flaw than FAA/EASA will issue and AD to fix the issue. This stuff happens all day every day on every aircraft type. Always trying to fix any issues that are found.
 
32andBelow
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:13 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
100s of panels depart planes, they are designed to safely depart. British AAIB studied ~5000 such events.

This is news because it happened in Japan. KLM's stance with JTSB should be it is the line mx under JCAB jurisdiction last touched the plane, otherwise, JCAB/JTSB will be all over KLM with their superiority complex. Sure, the airline has the responsibility but that logic won't work here.

I don't see why Line MX would every touch this panel? Most likely only removed during a heavy or a specific case.
 
325i
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:38 pm

Hey flyrow, did you ever see the film Rainman ?
 
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FlyRow
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:39 pm

Really miss the link, explain..
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dtw2hyd
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:54 am

32andBelow wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
100s of panels depart planes, they are designed to safely depart. British AAIB studied ~5000 such events.

This is news because it happened in Japan. KLM's stance with JTSB should be it is the line mx under JCAB jurisdiction last touched the plane, otherwise, JCAB/JTSB will be all over KLM with their superiority complex. Sure, the airline has the responsibility but that logic won't work here.

I don't see why Line MX would every touch this panel? Most likely only removed during a heavy or a specific case.


It is dispatched by KIX Line MX. Irrelevant what happened during last heavy mx or someone at the base hub.
 
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ssteve
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:53 pm

anstar wrote:
ssteve wrote:
anstar wrote:
My Point is that a previous poster said KLM had an excellent safety record. Its not exactly excellent if one of your flight crews took off with out permission and were then involved in aviations worst accidents!


How many decades must pass before that's irrelevant? Because it's basically irrelevant, in my opinion. It's like taking United to task for running out of gas over Portland, which happened a bit over a year after Tenerife. If you posted about that in all the "United sucks" threads, even the most ardent United haters would probably wonder what cave you've been living in.


Wow. 583 lives lost are irrelevant?


Let's see... "KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car." Yup, not relevant. Could not possibly have been 583 people in the car.
 
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kmz
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:28 pm

Luckily further panels were not blown out by aerodynamic forces once the panel was gone. Must have made some noises during the flight I suppose...
 
325i
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:02 am

Greetings FlyRow, in response to my rather cryptic comment ( did you see the movie Rainman) the character played by Dustin Hoffman said he would only fly Qantas.
I do believe that QF has again been recognised for being the worlds safest.
Of course I stand to be corrected should the above be incorrect. Enjoy your next flight, 325i.
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:55 am

On Nov 7th 2017 the JTSB reported in a press release that the investigation is still ongoing. So far it has been established that the bracket securing panel 198AR above the right hand wing root had fractured. All bolts were still present on the fuselage, however wrong bolts had been used (BACB30XD3K5 instead of the correct BACB30LH3-4). Traces on the holes of the panel suggest the bolts and screws passed through the panel's holes.

http://avherald.com/h?article=4aece188
http://www.mlit.go.jp/jtsb/iken-teikyo/ ... 170923.pdf

The correct bolt (top) and the - used - wrong bolt (bottom):

Image

Image
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BobbyPSP
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:52 pm

I have a question regarding maintence procedures and procuring parts from stores. I would think there would be some kind of bar code scanning of the bolt itself and then maybe on the maintenance doc? Similar to getting meds in a hospital: they scan you ID bracelet and the med and I guess if not a match a warning pops up.

Obviously I'm not in the know, put say you need to perform a work on the a/c. Is there a step by step document that prints out (and have bar codes for the proper parts) and as you go through the process scan one and then the other as a cross check?

Not going to place any blame but the second half of the part numbers are not close, i.e., not off by a digit or 2.. how are parts requisitioned from stores?

Thanks guys


Appreciate any help
 
dopplerd
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:06 pm

It looks like the issue was fastner length. The last number in the bolt code is length so they used one size too long. The problem this causes is that the threaded portion of the bolt bottoms out against the grip (the unthreaded portion) before the panel is held tight. I could see where even a slight bit of movement in the the panel could impart a pull out failure like what was seen here.
 
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SFOA380
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:29 pm

FlyRow wrote:
brilondon wrote:
MartijnNL wrote:
Great souvenir for the driver of the car that got hit! ;)

As long as they like airplanes and don't file a lawsuit against KL.


We don't all have the USA-lawsuit-mentality

All of us in the USA don’t either.
 
CF-CPI
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:55 pm

If the wrong screws were used, how long has it been flying that way? And were any other panels attached with the wrong screws? By the latter I mean both other panels on this aircraft, and other 777s in the fleet. Someone or some people are going to have a bad Monday. :(
 
7673mech
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:17 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
100s of panels depart planes, they are designed to safely depart. British AAIB studied ~5000 such events.

This is news because it happened in Japan. KLM's stance with JTSB should be it is the line mx under JCAB jurisdiction last touched the plane, otherwise, JCAB/JTSB will be all over KLM with their superiority complex. Sure, the airline has the responsibility but that logic won't work here.


Really??? I've been maintaining and or worked in manufacturing airplanes for 20 plus years, I assure you panels are not designed to depart an airplane.
This is a serious incident whenever it happens.
 
7673mech
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Re: KLM 777 wing panel falls off and hits driving car

Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:18 pm

anstar wrote:
ssteve wrote:
anstar wrote:
My Point is that a previous poster said KLM had an excellent safety record. Its not exactly excellent if one of your flight crews took off with out permission and were then involved in aviations worst accidents!


How many decades must pass before that's irrelevant? Because it's basically irrelevant, in my opinion. It's like taking United to task for running out of gas over Portland, which happened a bit over a year after Tenerife. If you posted about that in all the "United sucks" threads, even the most ardent United haters would probably wonder what cave you've been living in.


Wow. 583 lives lost are irrelevant?


It's irrelevant to their maintenance safety record.

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