American adds limited-time MIA-BUF/RSW during holiday season

SyracuseAvGeek · Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:12 pm

American announces that they will be adding non-stops from Miami to Ft. Myers and Buffalo, NY from the day before Christmas until just after New Years.

Is it possible that AA is testing to see if these routes are profitable from MIA? If they ARE successful, will AA continue the routes after the holiday season is over?

INFINITI329 · Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:15 pm

Im pretty sure BUF is a direct response to F9 starting the route

ahj2000 · Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:21 pm

Buffalo has Berna a major while I wouldn’t be surprised to see year round soon, but Fort Myers is quite clos, and 90% of connections (plus many more), excluding LATAM and Caribbean, are available through frequent connections to CLT and DFW. Confused as to why they are starting this, unless there is significant Latino VFR traffic not yet served well

gatibosgru · Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:31 pm

How long is actually flying time on a MIA-RSW leg?

MO11 · Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:40 pm

Remember when UA did BUF-MIA nonstop all year (and ROC-MIA on season)?

jasoncrh · Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:46 pm

Interesting. They had flown MIA - RSW for many years (and I had indeed taken that flight as a connection). I didnt realize it had been discontinued.

cosyr · Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:51 pm

MO11 wrote:
Remember when UA did BUF-MIA nonstop all year (and ROC-MIA on season)?

I don't know about those, but I assumed that you were talking about a route set up to sustain the Miami hub purchased from Pan Am. I went to departed flights to look it up and saw, well before the Pan Am MIA hub transfer, in 1984 UA flew BUF-MCO/TPA. Learn something new every day! http://www.departedflights.com/UA060184.html

mikegigs · Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:57 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
How long is actually flying time on a MIA-RSW leg?

Using the great circle mapper and the cruise speed of a CRJ, the most direct route would take only 11 minutes minus takeoff, landing, and taxi. Adding all that in, gate to gate could be as short as 25 minutes! By the time you check-in, go through TSA, board, and then collect any bags, I bet t would be faster (and certainly cheaper) to drive than fly...

sw733 · Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:59 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
How long is actually flying time on a MIA-RSW leg?

UPS runs a 757-200 PBI-RSW that has airtime of about 25 minutes, so I'd assume MIA would add about 5-7 minutes to that.

gatibosgru · Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:03 pm

mikegigs wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
How long is actually flying time on a MIA-RSW leg?

Using the great circle mapper and the cruise speed of a CRJ, the most direct route would take only 11 minutes minus takeoff, landing, and taxi. Adding all that in, gate to gate could be as short as 25 minutes! By the time you check-in, go through TSA, board, and then collect any bags, I bet t would be faster (and certainly cheaper) to drive than fly...

Not to mention the drive to and from the airport!

But it is a great option for PAX connecting through MIA.

AASAP777 · Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:08 pm

Mainline or American Eagle to BUF? I remember when I used to work for AA that people hated having to take a detour to ORD in order to reach BUF after connecting in MIA. Maybe this route will stick around.

As of RSW, I thought AA was still serving it.

11725Flyer · Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:17 pm

AASAP777 wrote:
Mainline or American Eagle to BUF? I remember when I used to work for AA that people hated having to take a detour to ORD in order to reach BUF after connecting in MIA. Maybe this route will stick around.

E75 by Republic RT for $437 with a dummy booking for three days after Christmas.

Miami · Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:28 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
How long is actually flying time on a MIA-RSW leg?

30-40 minutes.

Frontier14 · Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:35 pm

No question it is a direct reaction to Frontier entering the Florida - BUF market, and specifically the AA hub at Miami.

Frontier 14

MO11 · Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:44 pm

cosyr wrote:
MO11 wrote:
Remember when UA did BUF-MIA nonstop all year (and ROC-MIA on season)?

I don't know about those, but I assumed that you were talking about a route set up to sustain the Miami hub purchased from Pan Am. I went to departed flights to look it up and saw, well before the Pan Am MIA hub transfer, in 1984 UA flew BUF-MCO/TPA. Learn something new every day! http://www.departedflights.com/UA060184.html

These were routes inherited from the Capital merger. Not sure when BUF-MIA became nonstop, but I remember 727-100s in the late '60s/early '70s.

SyracuseAvGeek · Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:45 pm

If it's reacting to F9 BUF-MIA route, then why is it only for the holidays and not year round?

BUFJACK10 · Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:50 pm

MO11 wrote:
Remember when UA did BUF-MIA nonstop all year (and ROC-MIA on season)?

I don't know about those, but I assumed that you were talking about a route set up to sustain the Miami hub purchased from Pan Am. I went to departed flights to look it up and saw, well before the Pan Am MIA hub transfer, in 1984 UA flew BUF-MCO/TPA. Learn something new every day! http://www.departedflights.com/UA060184.html

United flew BUF-MIA in the 70's using mostly DC-8's and an occasional 727. It was a very popular route at the time. I flew it frequently and was quite full especially in the winter months.

I don't believe it fed the Miami hub, it was discontinued after deregulation when United decided to re-write their route map.

Those were the days.

eal · Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:00 pm

Miami wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
How long is actually flying time on a MIA-RSW leg?

30-40 minutes.

Including going through security and pre-boarding prolly, driving between the two takes no more than an hour and a half-at most.

Would be nice to see a train one day.

Miami · Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:07 pm

eal wrote:
Miami wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
How long is actually flying time on a MIA-RSW leg?

30-40 minutes.

Including going through security and pre-boarding prolly, driving between the two takes no more than an hour and a half-at most.

Would be nice to see a train one day.

Roughly the same distance as MIA-EYW which is less than an hour.

usflyer msp · Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:07 pm

BUF lost BOS and one CLT flight this year so 2x MIA is a welcome addition. DFW should be added as well.

AAvgeek744 · Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:39 pm

Didn't MIA-RSW go away when AA drew down AT7 services, or did they fly ER4's for a time? I don't recall it ever being a mainline but could be wrong.

AASAP777 · Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:57 pm

11725Flyer wrote:
AASAP777 wrote:
Mainline or American Eagle to BUF? I remember when I used to work for AA that people hated having to take a detour to ORD in order to reach BUF after connecting in MIA. Maybe this route will stick around.

E75 by Republic RT for $437 with a dummy booking for three days after Christmas.

Thanks! I guess the E75 is a wise choice, and pretty sure this one will stick around, considering the neighboring Canadian cities for which BUF is closer than YYZ.

krsw757 · Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:59 pm

AAvgeek744 wrote:
Didn't MIA-RSW go away when AA drew down AT7 services, or did they fly ER4's for a time? I don't recall it ever being a mainline but could be wrong.

I ran very briefly with the ERJ's after the AT7's were cut.

SyracuseAvGeek · Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:15 pm

I'm guessing what will happen on MIA-BUF if it goes well is it will stop on January 6th (like it is planned to) then start it again around mid-February so that they can have a proper inaugural flight.

MO11 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:28 am

BUFJACK10 wrote:
MO11 wrote:
Remember when UA did BUF-MIA nonstop all year (and ROC-MIA on season)?

United flew BUF-MIA in the 70's using mostly DC-8's and an occasional 727. It was a very popular route at the time. I flew it frequently and was quite full especially in the winter months.

Pretty sure DC-8s were never on that route. It was UA575 for the longest time, a 727-100 ROC-BUF-MIA. In fact I don't remember United DC-8s at BUF at all. Eastern, yes.

ty97 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:42 am

AAvgeek744 wrote:
Didn't MIA-RSW go away when AA drew down AT7 services, or did they fly ER4's for a time? I don't recall it ever being a mainline but could be wrong.

They moved to ER4s for a bit, but to my recollection not for a very long time before cutting the route. While it's a very short flight, I appreciated having the additional connection option to get to/from RSW. Was sad to see the route go.

AAvgeek744 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:51 am

ty97 wrote:
AAvgeek744 wrote:
Didn't MIA-RSW go away when AA drew down AT7 services, or did they fly ER4's for a time? I don't recall it ever being a mainline but could be wrong.

They moved to ER4s for a bit, but to my recollection not for a very long time before cutting the route. While it's a very short flight, I appreciated having the additional connection option to get to/from RSW. Was sad to see the route go.

Thanks for the FYI. I've driven from Ft. Myers to Miami. It's not a pleasant drive IMO. A few E75's should work.

AAvgeek744 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:51 am

ty97 wrote:
AAvgeek744 wrote:
Didn't MIA-RSW go away when AA drew down AT7 services, or did they fly ER4's for a time? I don't recall it ever being a mainline but could be wrong.

They moved to ER4s for a bit, but to my recollection not for a very long time before cutting the route. While it's a very short flight, I appreciated having the additional connection option to get to/from RSW. Was sad to see the route go.

Thanks for the FYI. I've driven from Ft. Myers to Miami. It's not a pleasant drive IMO. A few E75's should work.

AAvgeek744 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:53 am

MO11 wrote:
BUFJACK10 wrote:
MO11 wrote:
Remember when UA did BUF-MIA nonstop all year (and ROC-MIA on season)?

United flew BUF-MIA in the 70's using mostly DC-8's and an occasional 727. It was a very popular route at the time. I flew it frequently and was quite full especially in the winter months.

Pretty sure DC-8s were never on that route. It was UA575 for the longest time, a 727-100 ROC-BUF-MIA. In fact I don't remember United DC-8s at BUF at all. Eastern, yes.

720's perhaps? I know they leased a few to Capital before they merged, and BUF and PIT had nonstops to Florida.

BUFJACK10 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:42 am

BUFJACK10 wrote:
MO11 wrote:
Remember when UA did BUF-MIA nonstop all year (and ROC-MIA on season)?

United flew BUF-MIA in the 70's using mostly DC-8's and an occasional 727. It was a very popular route at the time. I flew it frequently and was quite full especially in the winter months.

Pretty sure DC-8s were never on that route. It was UA575 for the longest time, a 727-100 ROC-BUF-MIA. In fact I don't remember United DC-8s at BUF at all. Eastern, yes.

720's perhaps? I know they leased a few to Capital before they merged, and BUF and PIT had nonstops to Florida.

I'm 100% sure it was a DC8. Flew it in 1967, 1967 and 1970. It was memorable because it was my first flight. I miss those old noisy birds. The other times I took the trip it was a 727 which originated in ROC on the outbound and stopped in ROC on the inbound. The DC8 was non stop both ways

Buffalomatt1027 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:50 am

usflyer msp wrote:
BUF lost BOS and one CLT flight this year so 2x MIA is a welcome addition. DFW should be added as well.

Delta and still jetblue fly to direct flights to boston still. Didnt know AA cut a CLT flight! That is interesting! They do flight a A321 for some of the flights.

Buffalomatt1027 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:54 am

Frontier14 wrote:
No question it is a direct reaction to Frontier entering the Florida - BUF market, and specifically the AA hub at Miami.

Frontier 14

Yup canadians LOVEEEEEEE flying to Florida in general from BNIA. I could definitely see this route stick.

I still would love to see one of big airlines try to grow BNIA and add additional routes. Jet blue and Southwest have.

panam330 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:33 am

YESSS. Now, let's make MIA-BUF year-round and add MIA/DFW-BUF/ROC/SYR/ALB too! :bouncy:

AAAL · Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:41 am

I used to fly MIA-RSW all the time. It was a fun ATR trip. However, in the summer the aircrafts got pretty hot. Hopefully, it comes back all year long.

GSP psgr · Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:24 am

How hard up is American for Eagle gate space at Miami? Buffalo and Milwaukee both seem like they should have been added by now; they're similar to Louisville, Columbus, Indianapolis, and Cincinnati, which all have Eagle service. There's a reasonable case for Albany, Rochester, Providence, Manchester, and Ottawa as well. There seems to have been far more limited expansion at MIA compared to the connecting the dots at other hubs like Chicago and Charlotte; I'm guessing rebanking and gate constraints have at least played some role in that.

jetsetter629 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:49 pm

Now bring back MIA-APF please!!! Those damn NIMBYs...

Buffalomatt1027 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:51 pm

panam330 wrote:
YESSS. Now, let's make MIA-BUF year-round and add MIA/DFW-BUF/ROC/SYR/ALB too!

Technically frontier is going to fly year around .... but if AA wants to join that competition. I am ALLLLLLLLL for it. I am not sure if the rest of New York will get that same flight though. ROC, SYR, and ALB dont get the same amount of flights as BNIA.

United_fan · Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:11 pm

So BUF will have 4 choices to South Florida... And ROC has [email protected]#ng ZERO!

SyracuseAvGeek · Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:23 pm

United_fan wrote:
So BUF will have 4 choices to South Florida... And ROC has [email protected]#ng ZERO!

That's incorrect. ROC has WN to MCO, TPA(seasonally), and G4 to SFB and PGD starting Nov, 14th.

If anyone should be complaining, it's people at SYR, they only have 3 Florida options; FLL, MCO, PIE.
But there is no point in complaining.

BUFJACK10 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:25 pm

So BUF will have 4 choices to South Florida... And ROC has [email protected]#ng ZERO

If AA does make it permanent as people expect (we shall see) and if you include NK at IAG which is so close they essentially serve the same area there will be 5.
Actually, I'm surprised F9 didn't go to IAG instead of BUF seeing the NFTA has marketed IAG as a ULCC facility.

SyracuseAvGeek · Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:30 pm

BUFJACK10 wrote:
So BUF will have 4 choices to South Florida... And ROC has [email protected]#ng ZERO

If AA does make it permanent as people expect (we shall see) and if you include NK at IAG which is so close they essentially serve the same area there will be 5.
Actually, I'm surprised F9 didn't go to IAG instead of BUF seeing the NFTA has marketed IAG as a ULCC facility.

They would probably be charged more at IAG for usage of TSA, shops, and things like that, as most of NK and G4 flights into/out of IAG are in the middle of the night. F9 times in BUF are more mid-afternoon.

MIflyer12 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:55 pm

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
If it's reacting to F9 BUF-MIA route, then why is it only for the holidays and not year round?

That's a good question. IMHO, AA is chasing holiday price$ at a time when business travel is slack.

United_fan · Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:00 pm

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
United_fan wrote:
So BUF will have 4 choices to South Florida... And ROC has [email protected]#ng ZERO!

That's incorrect. ROC has WN to MCO, TPA(seasonally), and G4 to SFB and PGD starting Nov, 14th.

If anyone should be complaining, it's people at SYR, they only have 3 Florida options; FLL, MCO, PIE.
But there is no point in complaining.

These are central Florida,not South FL. ROC has nothing in S Florida. G4 is not returning to FLL.

commavia · Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:02 pm

GSP psgr wrote:
How hard up is American for Eagle gate space at Miami? Buffalo and Milwaukee both seem like they should have been added by now; they're similar to Louisville, Columbus, Indianapolis, and Cincinnati, which all have Eagle service. There's a reasonable case for Albany, Rochester, Providence, Manchester, and Ottawa as well. There seems to have been far more limited expansion at MIA compared to the connecting the dots at other hubs like Chicago and Charlotte; I'm guessing rebanking and gate constraints have at least played some role in that.

I agree that AA has more growth opportunity in MIA. I suspect limitations slowing that growth at the moment include not just facility constraints in MIA, where AA's operations are already significantly larger than when the North Terminal project was completed, but also aircraft availability, significant competitive capacity in South Florida, and the ongoing network evolution as AA continues to optimize its network post-merger. All that said, I too think that BUF is one of the most prominent domestic opportunities for AA out of MIA - along with PVD and, in Canada, YOW. All three of those seem like quite plausible once-daily E175 markets.

usflyer msp · Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:19 pm

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
BUFJACK10 wrote:
So BUF will have 4 choices to South Florida... And ROC has [email protected]#ng ZERO

If AA does make it permanent as people expect (we shall see) and if you include NK at IAG which is so close they essentially serve the same area there will be 5.
Actually, I'm surprised F9 didn't go to IAG instead of BUF seeing the NFTA has marketed IAG as a ULCC facility.

They would probably be charged more at IAG for usage of TSA, shops, and things like that, as most of NK and G4 flights into/out of IAG are in the middle of the night. F9 times in BUF are more mid-afternoon.

To be fair, neither TPA, MCO, SFB, or PIE are in South Florida (I know the University of South Florida is in Tampa but most people consider South Florida to be MIA, FLL, PBI.)

As for IAG vs BUF, F9 probably chose BUF precisely because NK and G4 are already at IAG - what would F9 flying to Florida add?

MO11 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:09 pm

BUFJACK10 wrote:
BUFJACK10 wrote:
MO11 wrote:
Remember when UA did BUF-MIA nonstop all year (and ROC-MIA on season)?

United flew BUF-MIA in the 70's using mostly DC-8's and an occasional 727. It was a very popular route at the time. I flew it frequently and was quite full especially in the winter months.

Pretty sure DC-8s were never on that route. It was UA575 for the longest time, a 727-100 ROC-BUF-MIA. In fact I don't remember United DC-8s at BUF at all. Eastern, yes.

720's perhaps? I know they leased a few to Capital before they merged, and BUF and PIT had nonstops to Florida.

I'm 100% sure it was a DC8. Flew it in 1967, 1967 and 1970. It was memorable because it was my first flight. I miss those old noisy birds. The other times I took the trip it was a 727 which originated in ROC on the outbound and stopped in ROC on the inbound. The DC8 was non stop both ways

I checked the timetables - 727s in BUF. During summer, MIA combined with TPA. ROC didn't have nonstop authority until summer 1969, so winter 1969-70 was the first year ROC-MIA operated.

N312RC · Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:24 pm

L-AA used to fly MIA-RSW with the old Executive ATR-72 fleet. If I remember correctly, at a time, the route was flown up to 6x a day (in the early 2000s). When the ATR's went away, MIA-RSW went with them.

Buffalomatt1027 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:04 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
BUFJACK10 wrote:

If AA does make it permanent as people expect (we shall see) and if you include NK at IAG which is so close they essentially serve the same area there will be 5.
Actually, I'm surprised F9 didn't go to IAG instead of BUF seeing the NFTA has marketed IAG as a ULCC facility.

They would probably be charged more at IAG for usage of TSA, shops, and things like that, as most of NK and G4 flights into/out of IAG are in the middle of the night. F9 times in BUF are more mid-afternoon.

To be fair, neither TPA, MCO, SFB, or PIE are in South Florida (I know the University of South Florida is in Tampa but most people consider South Florida to be MIA, FLL, PBI.)

As for IAG vs BUF, F9 probably chose BUF precisely because NK and G4 are already at IAG - what would F9 flying to Florida add?

F9 chose BNIA for Miami and other Florida routes because canadians love coming over the boarder to BNIA for cheap direct flights to Florida. EASY money ....ask Southwest and Jet blue.

Boeing74741R · Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:24 pm

AAvgeek744 wrote:
ty97 wrote:
AAvgeek744 wrote:
Didn't MIA-RSW go away when AA drew down AT7 services, or did they fly ER4's for a time? I don't recall it ever being a mainline but could be wrong.

They moved to ER4s for a bit, but to my recollection not for a very long time before cutting the route. While it's a very short flight, I appreciated having the additional connection option to get to/from RSW. Was sad to see the route go.

Thanks for the FYI. I've driven from Ft. Myers to Miami. It's not a pleasant drive IMO. A few E75's should work.

I've done that drive a couple of times as part of a longer drive. Apart from the dullness of going through the Everglades, I wouldn't say it's an unpleasant drive. I can think of far worse!

usflyer msp · Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:08 pm

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
SyracuseAvGeek wrote:

They would probably be charged more at IAG for usage of TSA, shops, and things like that, as most of NK and G4 flights into/out of IAG are in the middle of the night. F9 times in BUF are more mid-afternoon.

To be fair, neither TPA, MCO, SFB, or PIE are in South Florida (I know the University of South Florida is in Tampa but most people consider South Florida to be MIA, FLL, PBI.)

As for IAG vs BUF, F9 probably chose BUF precisely because NK and G4 are already at IAG - what would F9 flying to Florida add?

F9 chose BNIA for Miami and other Florida routes because canadians love coming over the boarder to BNIA for cheap direct flights to Florida. EASY money ....ask Southwest and Jet blue.

IAG is actually closer to Toronto, Hamilton and all of the major population centers and the Niagara Region except Port Colborne plus Niagara Falls area has three bridges to choose from while Buffalo only has one.

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