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CanadaFair
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EVA one stop Europe routes?

Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:31 pm

EVA will go nonstop to Vienna from March ending stopover in Bangkok, are all their EU routes nonstop now?
 
hayzel777
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Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?

Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:54 pm

No, they still serve AMS and LHR via BKK.
Also, the new add is an expansion, meaning that they are adding this in addition to the current 4x/week TPE-BKK-VIE.
 
OMAAbound
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Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?

Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:07 pm

I've always wondered why Eva go via BKK. Is this a load factor reasoning or a political one?
 
eamondzhang
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Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?

Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:29 pm

OMAAbound wrote:
I've always wondered why Eva go via BKK. Is this a load factor reasoning or a political one?

A combination of both. Plus they have to take a huge detour if flying nonstop to Europe anyway (either flying northeast to VVO before turning west or flying southwest to go via HK/Vietnam/Thailand) so sometimes just make the BKK stop more logical.

Michael
 
NichCage
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Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?

Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:14 am

I thought that EVA Air was ending TPE-BKK-VIE completely in favour of TPE-VIE non-stop, but it seems to be an addition. Still nice to see more non-stop flights from Taiwan to Europe.

Also, why do China Airlines and EVA Air serve Vienna?
 
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MoKa777
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Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?

Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:27 am

NichCage wrote:
Also, why do China Airlines and EVA Air serve Vienna?


I am wondering the exact same thing...
Never be proud. Always be grateful.
 
trex8
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Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?

Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:48 am

MoKa777 wrote:
NichCage wrote:
Also, why do China Airlines and EVA Air serve Vienna?


I am wondering the exact same thing...

The original Taiwan -Austria ASA had 1 carrier from Taiwan. CI was given the rights by the ROC government. Then they were allowed a second carrier, so BR got the rights. They were hardly going to give it to AE which is owned by CI.

Is there enough traffic for both??
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?

Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:52 am

Dubai was a stop in past.
 
Nami
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Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?

Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:25 am

I think this little interview on Routesonline made just before World Routes started last weekend is quite closely related to this. TPE management seems to think there is still potential for more routes in Europe.

Taiwan wants Helsinki, Munich and Barcelona routes

Taiwan Taoyuan has set out its route development ambitions, with European cities a target.
--
What are you next targets for route development?

Next targets would include long haul European cities like Helsinki, Munich, Barcelona and North American cities on both west and east coasts.
--
Routesonline.com 23.9.2017
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?

Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:49 am

EVA planned Barcelona and Delhi three years ago.
 
hayzel777
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Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?

Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:32 am

CanadaFair wrote:
EVA planned Barcelona and Delhi three years ago.

They never planned Barcelona, it was a rumor based off a visit by EVA managers to BCN that was picked up. Delhi was definitely in the mix but they ultimately decided there was way too much competition and it was total garbage yields.
 
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LOWS
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Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?

Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:39 am

MoKa777 wrote:
NichCage wrote:
Also, why do China Airlines and EVA Air serve Vienna?


I am wondering the exact same thing...


Tourism and the very large UN presence? Also, in uncongested Star hub with extensive Eastern European connections.
 
nicode
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Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?

Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:51 am

eamondzhang wrote:
A combination of both. Plus they have to take a huge detour if flying nonstop to Europe anyway (either flying northeast to VVO before turning west or flying southwest to go via HK/Vietnam/Thailand)
Why EVA Air and China Airlines can overfly China (through India, Myanmar and then Hong-Kong) on the way to TPE, but can''t overfly China when leaving Taiwan ?
KLM can overfly China via Mongolia or Kazakhstan both ways.
Why such different route for a taiwenese carrier and an european carrier ?
 
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Arq
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Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?

Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:47 am

On a side note, Thai Airways will launch BKK-VIE on 16 November. Might be good for EVA to go direct if they can do it efficiently route wise. I don't think BKK-VIE has enough demand for 3 Airlines (Austrian is also a key player in this route)

http://social.thaiairways.com/thai-laun ... ts-vienna/
 
NZ321
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Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?

Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:57 am

On the note of Vienna not many long haul carriers fly to VIE. Strange to have two from TPE and neither SQ or NH or JL. Good to see TG commencing so maybe BR will discontinue BKK-VIE.
Plane mad!
 
phofmannsair
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Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?

Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:14 am

CanadaFair wrote:
EVA will go nonstop to Vienna from March ending stopover in Bangkok, are all their EU routes nonstop now?


TPE-CDG is not stop.
TPE-VIE will be their second Europe city no stop.
 
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EVAAIRBR076
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Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?

Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:41 am

OMAAbound wrote:
Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?
by OMAAbound » 25 Sep 2017 23:07



As i can only talk about my own experience but i can say that for AMS almost 90% of the pax has BKK as destination. So it's not so strange they have BKK as a stopover. China Airlines recently flies non stop AMS-TPE but i wonder what the loadfactor is compared the old situation with BKK as stopover.
 
trex8
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Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?

Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:09 pm

EVAAIRBR076 wrote:
OMAAbound wrote:
Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?
by OMAAbound » 25 Sep 2017 23:07



As i can only talk about my own experience but i can say that for AMS almost 90% of the pax has BKK as destination. So it's not so strange they have BKK as a stopover. China Airlines recently flies non stop AMS-TPE but i wonder what the loadfactor is compared the old situation with BKK as stopover.

CI went from daily 744 TPE-BKK-AMS to 4x/week A359 TPE-AMS, so a significant drop in capacity.
 
WorldFlier
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Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?

Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:19 pm

nicode wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
A combination of both. Plus they have to take a huge detour if flying nonstop to Europe anyway (either flying northeast to VVO before turning west or flying southwest to go via HK/Vietnam/Thailand)
Why EVA Air and China Airlines can overfly China (through India, Myanmar and then Hong-Kong) on the way to TPE, but can''t overfly China when leaving Taiwan ?
KLM can overfly China via Mongolia or Kazakhstan both ways.
Why such different route for a taiwenese carrier and an european carrier ?



Politics. I don't want this post deleted, but you may read about the "One China" policy and how Taiwan is a "Renegade Province" that causes China to exert pressure on them...
 
wenders825
Posts: 383
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Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?

Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:17 pm

Nami wrote:
I think this little interview on Routesonline made just before World Routes started last weekend is quite closely related to this. TPE management seems to think there is still potential for more routes in Europe.

Taiwan wants Helsinki, Munich and Barcelona routes

Taiwan Taoyuan has set out its route development ambitions, with European cities a target.
--
What are you next targets for route development?

Next targets would include long haul European cities like Helsinki, Munich, Barcelona and North American cities on both west and east coasts.
--
Routesonline.com 23.9.2017

expecting Finnair to launch HEL in the next year or so. kind of surprised they haven't yet.
 
NichCage
Posts: 916
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:43 pm

Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?

Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:18 pm

wenders825 wrote:
Nami wrote:
I think this little interview on Routesonline made just before World Routes started last weekend is quite closely related to this. TPE management seems to think there is still potential for more routes in Europe.

Taiwan wants Helsinki, Munich and Barcelona routes

Taiwan Taoyuan has set out its route development ambitions, with European cities a target.
--
What are you next targets for route development?

Next targets would include long haul European cities like Helsinki, Munich, Barcelona and North American cities on both west and east coasts.
--
Routesonline.com 23.9.2017

expecting Finnair to launch HEL in the next year or so. kind of surprised they haven't yet.


I think Finnair has a chance of flying to TPE, because the Europe-Taiwan market isn't served by many carriers other than KL and TK. Munich is actually on TPE's route shop, TPE-MUC must have some sort of demand. I don't think CI or BR would ever launch BCN, because there is no market (or very tiny) between TPE and BCN.
 
trex8
Posts: 5613
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?

Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:11 pm

NichCage wrote:
wenders825 wrote:
Nami wrote:
I think this little interview on Routesonline made just before World Routes started last weekend is quite closely related to this. TPE management seems to think there is still potential for more routes in Europe.


expecting Finnair to launch HEL in the next year or so. kind of surprised they haven't yet.


I think Finnair has a chance of flying to TPE, because the Europe-Taiwan market isn't served by many carriers other than KL and TK. Munich is actually on TPE's route shop, TPE-MUC must have some sort of demand. I don't think CI or BR would ever launch BCN, because there is no market (or very tiny) between TPE and BCN.

With CI flying daily FRA with 77W (though that will change to A359 in march) is there sufficient demand from MUC also for travel to Taiwan?
 
Nami
Posts: 465
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Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?

Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:36 pm

NichCage wrote:
wenders825 wrote:
Nami wrote:
I think this little interview on Routesonline made just before World Routes started last weekend is quite closely related to this. TPE management seems to think there is still potential for more routes in Europe.


expecting Finnair to launch HEL in the next year or so. kind of surprised they haven't yet.


I think Finnair has a chance of flying to TPE, because the Europe-Taiwan market isn't served by many carriers other than KL and TK. Munich is actually on TPE's route shop, TPE-MUC must have some sort of demand. I don't think CI or BR would ever launch BCN, because there is no market (or very tiny) between TPE and BCN.


Last year one VP from AY said "Let’s say that Taipei or Kuala Lumpur are high in our top list--".

It would be nice to see AY at TPE but I wonder if it might cause some problems when negotiating for more traffic rights to mainland China. Not really sure about the passenger demand from Europe to Taiwan and vice versa either (would be nice to see some numbers) so I'm a bit doubtful unless AY somehow managed to carry a lot of cargo on the route.
 
bzcat
Posts: 328
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Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:02 am

NichCage wrote:
I thought that EVA Air was ending TPE-BKK-VIE completely in favour of TPE-VIE non-stop, but it seems to be an addition. Still nice to see more non-stop flights from Taiwan to Europe.

Also, why do China Airlines and EVA Air serve Vienna?


Because Austria granted air traffic rights early. No big mystery... There were no other European destinations to fly to so BR and CI both served VIE.

Netherlands was the only European country to grant air traffic rights to Taiwan so up until 1991 KL's AMS-BKK-TPE direct flight was the only passenger air link between Europe and Taiwan. When Lauda Air launched in the late 1980s, they identified several untapped Asian markets and TPE being one of them so the Austrian Govt became the 2nd European country to grant Taiwan passenger air traffic rights. Lauda never started scheduled service to TPE (the 1991 crash of flight 004 in Thailand ended the Asian expansion plan). But the traffic rights were there to be utilized by Taiwanese carriers so CI and BR both eventually launched service in the early 1990s.

France, Germany, UK, and Switzerland all eventually granted passenger air traffic rights to to Taiwan. But by that time, TPE-VIE was already established so the routes stuck with both BR and CI.
 
bzcat
Posts: 328
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 11:34 pm

Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:25 am

nicode wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
A combination of both. Plus they have to take a huge detour if flying nonstop to Europe anyway (either flying northeast to VVO before turning west or flying southwest to go via HK/Vietnam/Thailand)
Why EVA Air and China Airlines can overfly China (through India, Myanmar and then Hong-Kong) on the way to TPE, but can''t overfly China when leaving Taiwan ?
KLM can overfly China via Mongolia or Kazakhstan both ways.
Why such different route for a taiwenese carrier and an european carrier ?


Technically BR and CI can overflly China west bound but they are limited to a few air routes so it doesn't save that much time for CI and BR. But to really understand the issue, you have to realize that no commercial flights can fly directly between Taiwan and China. They all have to go thru another air traffic control sector. So for example, TPE-XMN goes on a detour to HKG control before turning north in a "U" shape flight path, turning a 30 minutes flight into a 1:30 flight.

TPE-Europe flights follow the same departure detour so they either have to detour south to HKG control or north to ICN control. Once you already detoured ex-TPE, you might as well continue on that path because switching back to flying via China through HKG or ICN means you have to zig zag through Chinese airspace and be subject to their air traffic delays.
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1885
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: EVA one stop Europe routes?

Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:39 am

bzcat wrote:
nicode wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
A combination of both. Plus they have to take a huge detour if flying nonstop to Europe anyway (either flying northeast to VVO before turning west or flying southwest to go via HK/Vietnam/Thailand)
Why EVA Air and China Airlines can overfly China (through India, Myanmar and then Hong-Kong) on the way to TPE, but can''t overfly China when leaving Taiwan ?
KLM can overfly China via Mongolia or Kazakhstan both ways.
Why such different route for a taiwenese carrier and an european carrier ?


Technically BR and CI can overflly China west bound but they are limited to a few air routes so it doesn't save that much time for CI and BR. But to really understand the issue, you have to realize that no commercial flights can fly directly between Taiwan and China. They all have to go thru another air traffic control sector. So for example, TPE-XMN goes on a detour to HKG control before turning north in a "U" shape flight path, turning a 30 minutes flight into a 1:30 flight.

TPE-Europe flights follow the same departure detour so they either have to detour south to HKG control or north to ICN control. Once you already detoured ex-TPE, you might as well continue on that path because switching back to flying via China through HKG or ICN means you have to zig zag through Chinese airspace and be subject to their air traffic delays.

The detour depends, if you're flying to PEK/SHA they got handed straight from Taipei FIR to Shanghai FIR.

But I believe for Taiwanese carriers they're only allowed to fly over Mainland if they're going to one of the destinations within the Mainland, not flying over to somewhere else. Not sure about KLM (and yes I've been aware of that for a while).

Michael

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