steman
Posts: 1613
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2000 4:55 pm

Re: Updated: LH to operate Boeing 747-400 roundtrips between Frankfurt and Berlin in November and December

Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:47 am

On some rare occasions you get to see 2 B744s at TXL:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bbv9DfZnI5f ... nd_control
 
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DABYT
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:59 pm

Re: Lufthansa to operate 63 Boeing 747-400 roundtrips between Frankfurt and Berlin in November

Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:34 am

DALCE wrote:
why does LH not retrieve some 340-600's from retirement? These could be helping out free-ing up 744s for the Berlin Airlift 2.0 ;)
Can imagine that the 340-600 would not be capable of serving TXL due to the sheer length of the frame.

LH has already been serving TXL with A340-600 from MUC in october. So no worries about length.
 
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ojjunior
Posts: 896
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Re: Lufthansa to operate 63 Boeing 747-400 roundtrips between Frankfurt and Berlin in November

Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:49 pm

Planesmart wrote:
ojjunior wrote:
I always find myself wondering how do airlines know that there is a greater than normal demand for a certain leg at a certain date to increase the seat offer...
If the interested party could not book because the flight is full, how on Earth does the airline knows? Website algorithms, maybe? What about all other sales channels interest?
In long term, for a new route is one thing, but there are airlines upgauging aircraft from one day to another then back to previous, how's this possible???

They 'know' because every enquiry (internet, travel agent, airline desk, etc) triggers an online search/request. Each and every permutation of date and time, and the willingness / resistance to acceptance higher prices, is tracked.

As a customer, you can 'play' some of this predictive selling software, but it doesn't work for products and services with finite availability. Say you need to buy new tyres next month. Visit a couple of the cheapest and slickest online sites every day for a couple of weeks. Start enquiring about specific make/model/size of tyres. Do so for 6-7 days, each day. Then over the next couple of days put the tyres into and out of your basket. Then start checkout, but stop part way through. Usually by day 4 you will receive a personalised offer you can't refuse.


Yeah, I got it, it makes total sense however my question remains for the immediate change for a certain flight.
It's a heck of good planning and speed in processing all of this in time to check the entire network to get a new model for that flight.
That's what amazes me!
 
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XAM2175
Posts: 1156
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:25 pm

Re: Updated: LH to operate Boeing 747-400 roundtrips between Frankfurt and Berlin in November and December

Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:03 pm

Does anybody happen to have a listing of which flights are getting the upgauge? I've some holiday I need to use before the end of the year... ;)
 
r2rho
Posts: 3096
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:13 pm

Re: Updated: LH to operate Boeing 747-400 roundtrips between Frankfurt and Berlin in November and December

Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:37 pm

There is a hole of 60,000 seats in the German domestic market. The 747's are but a drop in the bucket. Prices are ridiculous.
Where are all the people who were posting that the train would provide competition and be a valid alternative to the LH monopoly?

http://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2017-11/i ... -gestiegen
 
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neomax
Posts: 945
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:26 am

Re: Updated: LH to operate Boeing 747-400 roundtrips between Frankfurt and Berlin in November and December

Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:38 pm

r2rho wrote:
There is a hole of 60,000 seats in the German domestic market. The 747's are but a drop in the bucket. Prices are ridiculous.
Where are all the people who were posting that the train would provide competition and be a valid alternative to the LH monopoly?

http://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2017-11/i ... -gestiegen


This might be the first time where hourly A380 service might actually be more than just an A.net joke :D
 
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LTU330
Posts: 252
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:40 pm

Re: Updated: LH to operate Boeing 747-400 roundtrips between Frankfurt and Berlin in November and December

Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:35 pm

r2rho wrote:
There is a hole of 60,000 seats in the German domestic market. The 747's are but a drop in the bucket. Prices are ridiculous.
Where are all the people who were posting that the train would provide competition and be a valid alternative to the LH monopoly?

http://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2017-11/i ... -gestiegen


MUC - LEJ - MUC on LH booked in advance is about 190 Euro return in economy. On the train it is 80 Euro return in First Class. When you take in to account check in and getting to/from Munich to the Airport, there is not a massive difference in total time. All flights are expensive if booked short notice, even on your beloved LCC Airlines. What you have to remember is that it is not LH fault that no one else is interested to operate between TXL and FRA, MUC, DUS etc at this time. The same rule can now apply with MUC - TXL - MUC due to the new Ice Sprinter train. Stop thinking everyone should be able to fly for Ryanair prices. When that happens, no one who works for an Airline will be able to afford to live like they can now, as in near to one of these major Airports that command very high housing costs. You have an obsession with cheap flights and no regard for the people who have to service that industry.

Don’t think I am a LH fanboy. I hope the likes of Ryanair come in and change the market, but tied to real contracts and salaries for their employees. I don’t see why employees should suffer bad conditions and pay just for YOU to have cheaper flights.
 
mcg
Posts: 1016
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:49 am

Re: Lufthansa to operate 63 Boeing 747-400 roundtrips between Frankfurt and Berlin in November

Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:10 pm

lightsaber wrote:
WesternA318 wrote:
huaiwei wrote:
For some reason I had to check that it is 2017 and not 1948 to 1949. Of course there was no 744 back then, but still. :D



I was thinking the same thing!

I concur. This is Berlin Airlift 2.0. :)

But are they hauling coal? ;)

Lightsaber


Are the crews throwing candy out the window on final approach?
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4675
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: Updated: LH to operate Boeing 747-400 roundtrips between Frankfurt and Berlin in November and December

Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:15 pm

Have been looking at this and the lufthansa web engine lists nothing bigger than an A321. How do people know which flight to book?
 
WIederling
Posts: 9292
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Updated: LH to operate Boeing 747-400 roundtrips between Frankfurt and Berlin in November and December

Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:24 pm

r2rho wrote:
There is a hole of 60,000 seats in the German domestic market. The 747's are but a drop in the bucket. Prices are ridiculous.
Where are all the people who were posting that the train would provide competition and be a valid alternative to the LH monopoly?

http://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2017-11/i ... -gestiegen


That is planned for the winter timetable 2017/2018 ( changeover is Dec. 10 ! )
Murphy is an optimist
 
ClipperBerlin
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:15 pm

Re: Updated: LH to operate Boeing 747-400 roundtrips between Frankfurt and Berlin in November and December

Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:53 pm

XAM2175 wrote:
Doezs anybody happen to have a listing of which flights are getting the upgauge? I've some holiday I need to use before the end of the year... ;)


Just start LH booking engine and look at the flight details. There is no special jumbo time. I flew with D-ABVU last week and the plane was almost fully booked.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4675
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: Updated: LH to operate Boeing 747-400 roundtrips between Frankfurt and Berlin in November and December

Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:00 pm

As I said, looking a week out it shows nothing bigger than an A321.
 
SaschaYHZ
Posts: 270
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:41 pm

Re: Lufthansa to operate 63 Boeing 747-400 roundtrips between Frankfurt and Berlin in November

Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:04 pm

Perhaps due to the upcoming holiday, and a busier travel time?


ojjunior wrote:
columba wrote:
Lufthansa could surely use their old A300s for that purpose maybe they are looking into the 797 it would surely fit their network.......

I'd easily book a r/t ticket just to fly the good old A300 if it was still around...

Cunard wrote:
And where supposedly are Lufthansa hiding their old A300's?

Under the ground at FRA apparently:
Image


shhhhhh.....don't give away all our secrets ;)
 
superjeff
Posts: 1311
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:14 am

Re: Updated: LH to operate Boeing 747-400 roundtrips between Frankfurt and Berlin in November and December

Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:13 pm

LTU330 wrote:
r2rho wrote:
There is a hole of 60,000 seats in the German domestic market. The 747's are but a drop in the bucket. Prices are ridiculous.
Where are all the people who were posting that the train would provide competition and be a valid alternative to the LH monopoly?

http://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2017-11/i ... -gestiegen


MUC - LEJ - MUC on LH booked in advance is about 190 Euro return in economy. On the train it is 80 Euro return in First Class. When you take in to account check in and getting to/from Munich to the Airport, there is not a massive difference in total time. All flights are expensive if booked short notice, even on your beloved LCC Airlines. What you have to remember is that it is not LH fault that no one else is interested to operate between TXL and FRA, MUC, DUS etc at this time. The same rule can now apply with MUC - TXL - MUC due to the new Ice Sprinter train. Stop thinking everyone should be able to fly for Ryanair prices. When that happens, no one who works for an Airline will be able to afford to live like they can now, as in near to one of these major Airports that command very high housing costs. You have an obsession with cheap flights and no regard for the people who have to service that industry.

Don’t think I am a LH fanboy. I hope the likes of Ryanair come in and change the market, but tied to real contracts and salaries for their employees. I don’t see why employees should suffer bad conditions and pay just for YOU to have cheaper flights.


I absolutely agree with you. All we are seeing by these "low fare advocates" is what has led to this "race to the bottom" attitude by which the Legacy carriers are lowering their service and cost levels to match that of the ULCC's. As long as people will abandon one airline to save 5 Euro/Dollars/Whatever, this will continue, and service levels will continue to deteriorate. You can't even choose a slightly less uncomfortable product any more; it is steerage or steerage light (Euro Business) in Europe these days.

Jeff
 
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XAM2175
Posts: 1156
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:25 pm

Re: Updated: LH to operate Boeing 747-400 roundtrips between Frankfurt and Berlin in November and December

Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:57 pm

ClipperBerlin wrote:
Just start LH booking engine and look at the flight details. There is no special jumbo time. I flew with D-ABVU last week and the plane was almost fully booked.


Cheers mate, figured that might be the case and had been doing so, which is how I can say in response to this...

skipness1E wrote:
As I said, looking a week out it shows nothing bigger than an A321.


... that I'm seeing three 747 flights on ITA Matrix for TXL-FRA on Tue 19/12.
 
n729pa
Posts: 1149
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:16 pm

Re: Updated: LH to operate Boeing 747-400 roundtrips between Frankfurt and Berlin in November and December

Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:05 pm

skipness1E wrote:
As I said, looking a week out it shows nothing bigger than an A321.


I've done four flights now. Catch the first BA flight to TXL arrive 10 am. There's a 1145 flIght, 185 I think it is. Then get a return mid afternoon then one of the late BA flights back to LHR. (A Christmas present to myself!)....they seem to get a lot of attention and each one has been full or 95%+. D-ABVP the first time there and back and I had D-ABVX the same on the 30th. VW was operating a flight before around 1100. Have a look at a Thursday they had about 5 flights a day in November. Good luck.

Update
Thu 14th Dec
TXL FRA LH179 LH197 not sure what flights they're doing FRA TXL that day
 
mickster
Posts: 210
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:56 am

Re: Updated: LH to operate Boeing 747-400 roundtrips between Frankfurt and Berlin in November and December

Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:35 am

Just did a search for next week via Matrix, there are still seats available only at the beginning of the week, not sure whether after that flights are sold out or LH operates no more 747s. All flights below depart FRA, you can draw up the TXL returns accordingly:
Monday, 11 Dec, 2 flights: LH168 @ 1715, LH198 @ 1845
Tuesday, 12 Dec, 3 flights: LH170 @ 0645, LH174 @ 0745, LH186 @ 1345
Wednesday, 13 Dec, 1 flight: LH196 @ 1815
 
r2rho
Posts: 3096
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:13 pm

Re: Updated: LH to operate Boeing 747-400 roundtrips between Frankfurt and Berlin in November and December

Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:59 am

You have an obsession with cheap flights and no regard for the people who have to service that industry.

No. I just want to be able to fly domestic for 160-200EUR roundtrip again. This is currently near impossible unless you book a tuesday noon flight >1month in advance.

It is impossible to offer cheap fares on Geramn flights due to taxes. It is however possible to keep LH honest.

That is planned for the winter timetable 2017/2018 ( changeover is Dec. 10 ! )

And after dec 10th we will still see no change - a train ride over 4h is not competition to air travel. LH prices will not budge a cent.
 
steman
Posts: 1613
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2000 4:55 pm

Re: Updated: LH to operate Boeing 747-400 roundtrips between Frankfurt and Berlin in November and December

Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:33 pm

I wonder if this "experiment" might become regular, at least in certain busier times of the year.
I mean, LH is clearly having a lot of success on these 747 rotation to TXL. The planes fly the route during the downtime between long haul flights.
I have no idea of the economics involved but, unless a frame needs maintenance, it´s probably better to make it fly than to keep it several hours on the ground.
If such flights are almost always full and at non discounted fares, it might turn out to be a net gain for the airline.
Do you think there´s a chance for regular widebody flights between Berlin and FRA/MUC in the future?
 
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XAM2175
Posts: 1156
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:25 pm

Re: Updated: LH to operate Boeing 747-400 roundtrips between Frankfurt and Berlin in November and December

Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:20 pm

mickster wrote:
Just did a search for next week via Matrix, there are still seats available only at the beginning of the week, not sure whether after that flights are sold out or LH operates no more 747s.


I am literally looking now at a confirmed itinerary I purchased last night for TXL-FRA on Tue 19/12 showing as a 747. It was the cheapest flight of the day.
 
DaufuskieGuy
Posts: 411
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:35 pm

Re: Updated: LH to operate Boeing 747-400 roundtrips between Frankfurt and Berlin in November and December

Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:16 am

long term i think txl gets some long hauls of its own which decreases wide body need to fra and muc
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

Re: Updated: LH to operate Boeing 747-400 roundtrips between Frankfurt and Berlin in November and December

Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:21 am

Meanwhile U2 runs Radio advertisements promoting TXL FRA TXL flights., the badly needed compettion will start after the Holidays and gradually things will go back to normal.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!

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