beechnut
Posts: 762
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:27 am

Re: Air Canada Expands its Global Network

Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:39 pm

whywhyzee wrote:

AC has made no push to retire the A330's nor have they said anything about it? It's a popular Anet assumption, which as per usual, is completely baseless. The a330's have started to be repainted into the new livery.


The A330s, as per the last investor day, are intended as "flex capacity". They are owned. They as well as the remaining 767s and 10 leased 777s (8 300s, two LRs) with lease terms expiring from 2019 to 2021 form capacity that can be rapidly shed in the event of an economic downturn.

There's been on-and-off talk about more 333s. It may make some sense to lease a few more. If demand remains firm all or part of them could be replaced by exercising more 787 options (most likely 9s, perhaps some 10s, 8s unlikely). I suppose based on the report one could see some 777s going out of the fleet and replaced with smaller 787-9s, or some 10s.

See: https://www.aircanada.com/content/dam/a ... y-2017.pdf

Beech
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 6500
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Air Canada Expands its Global Network

Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:52 pm

matt wrote:
All that to say that there are more changes to come with respect to aircraft/route allocation.


Unless they add a couple more A333s, from the same source as SN, or elsewhere.
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1081
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada Expands its Global Network

Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:01 pm

beechnut wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:

AC has made no push to retire the A330's nor have they said anything about it? It's a popular Anet assumption, which as per usual, is completely baseless. The a330's have started to be repainted into the new livery.


The A330s, as per the last investor day, are intended as "flex capacity". They are owned. They as well as the remaining 767s and 10 leased 777s (8 300s, two LRs) with lease terms expiring from 2019 to 2021 form capacity that can be rapidly shed in the event of an economic downturn.

There's been on-and-off talk about more 333s. It may make some sense to lease a few more. If demand remains firm all or part of them could be replaced by exercising more 787 options (most likely 9s, perhaps some 10s, 8s unlikely). I suppose based on the report one could see some 777s going out of the fleet and replaced with smaller 787-9s, or some 10s.

See: https://www.aircanada.com/content/dam/a ... y-2017.pdf

Beech


I really can't see them replacing 777's with 787's, especially the 77W's. They need that size for high demand routes that are slot restricted. Peak time YYZ for example, the terminal operates over design capacity, they can't increase frequency, and can't really afford to lose seats. Destinations like LHR that operate 4x daily 77W's during the peak summer season would suffer greatly. YYZ to LHR, FRA, CDG, PEK, PVG, HKG, YUL to CDG and LHR, YVR to PEK, HKG all take full advantage of the 777's size and effectively rely on it for their success. Going forward, I think they could lean out the fleet by replacing the 77L's with 787's, but the 787 is not large enough to replace most of the 77W flying.
 
sixtyseven
Posts: 807
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:42 am

Re: Air Canada Expands its Global Network

Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:22 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
I like their strategy, they are really leveraging Canada's quiet push at diversifying it's economy and growing as a nation. They have been creating more overlap as the 787's arrive, no longer routing everything Europe via YYZ and Asia via YVR for example. YUL has really benefitted from this expansion, and I hope that YOW and YYC will see some of the love as well.

With their fleet, they seem to take a more conservative approach, which is prudent. They hold 23 options/purchase rights for the 787, which they can exercise when they see fit, but given the current fuel prices, and production rate, I am sure they know pretty close to exactly when they can order and get an aircraft when they need, so they can effectively 'wait and see' and order when the time is right. I really expect some of the options to come as 787-10's, especially for YYZ where they are frequency capped most of the day because they don't have enough gates. I also wouldn't rule out more 77W's, given their prices right now, they could save 50 million dollars compared to say a 78J, and carry more people. More fuel burn, but less upfront cost and more revenue opportunity to offset.


I am interested to see how the trade dispute between Boeing and Bombardier effects the 787 options. ACs deal on the 787 was amazing and those options begin to expire this fall as I understand it. I'm also led to believe that they cannot be extended any further. The purchase rights are less looming as they require a new deal on price.

No doubt this is going to get nasty. AC has a vested interested in both companies. They've always had a tight relationship with Liberals. Hope it gets worked out.
Stand-by for new ATIS message......
 
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flymco753
Posts: 3291
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Air Canada Expands its Global Network

Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:07 pm

CHI2DFW wrote:
If it works for AC at YYZ, no reason it can’t work from DTW, except for that DL hatred thing... the few, the proud, and missing common sense, TEAM DTW, WORLD AVIATION POLICE!
This post under exaggerates your ignorance.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
drgmobile
Posts: 980
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:06 am

Re: Air Canada Expands its Global Network

Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:47 pm

sixtyseven wrote:
I am interested to see how the trade dispute between Boeing and Bombardier effects the 787 options. ACs deal on the 787 was amazing and those options begin to expire this fall as I understand it. I'm also led to believe that they cannot be extended any further. The purchase rights are less looming as they require a new deal on price.

No doubt this is going to get nasty. AC has a vested interested in both companies. They've always had a tight relationship with Liberals. Hope it gets worked out.


A more interesting question is whether the trade dispute will impact the 61 Boeing 737-MAX that start arriving in a month or so. Surprisingly, none of the media coverage in Canada has raised the matter.
 
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albertocsc
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:09 pm

Re: Air Canada Expands its Global Network

Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:04 pm

In the OTP operations it might also played a role the fact that Air Canada's CEO was born in Romania. During a visit earlier this year to Romania he promised he would link Romania with Canada soon. It will be the first TATL service from OTP in a long time, althought TAROM is also trying to relaunch those services.
 
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LAX772LR
Posts: 12666
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Air Canada Expands its Global Network

Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:35 am

Thenoflyzone wrote:
As for weekend-only US service, PBI, SJU and RSW come to mind.

Ah, so need a beach apparently. :(


beechnut wrote:
The A330s . . . They are owned.

Some of them by UA, which is sorta trippy. :razz:
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1081
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada Expands its Global Network

Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:06 pm

One thing I find interesting is where they might go to replace the final 5 767's and A321's (as it stands, th max won't replace them). I can see potential for the new MoM or the 737-10 to fill that role. They wouldn't need too many, but it would be a useful aircraft for their premium trans on services and some secondary Europe from Toronto. I like to think they could emulate UA with their 757's and really bolster their network. This would also serve to help their 6th freedom segment, one easy connection to anywhere in Europe.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2394
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Air Canada Expands its Global Network

Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:36 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
One thing I find interesting is where they might go to replace the final 5 767's and A321's (as it stands, th max won't replace them). I can see potential for the new MoM or the 737-10 to fill that role. They wouldn't need too many, but it would be a useful aircraft for their premium trans on services and some secondary Europe from Toronto. I like to think they could emulate UA with their 757's and really bolster their network. This would also serve to help their 6th freedom segment, one easy connection to anywhere in Europe.


I get the impression that a lot of the non-Rouge A32x will be hanging around a lot longer than anyone would have previously thought. All 7M8s thus far have thus far been allocated to either new routes or replacing Rouge with mainline (except the replacement of the ETOPS 319s on YYT-LHR with 7M8s). The 321s definitely will or they wouldn't be getting new paint. If any 319s/320s get new paint, that should indicate those frames will be around for at least another 5 years. I guess it'll largely depend upon the economy.
 
jmt18325
Posts: 136
Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 6:08 pm

Re: Air Canada Expands its Global Network

Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:55 pm

The A319s are scheduled to begin leaving the mainline fleet next year, as per the latest fleet plan. Given the new pilot agreement, it's likely some will go to Rouge. There will be 18 Max 8s added in the next year and a bit, and only 8 A319s removed.

https://www.aircanada.com/content/dam/a ... MDA_q2.pdf

Page 22 has the plan.

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