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LAXintl
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DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:41 pm

DOT is out with its Congressional mandated list of annual pruning of Essential Air Service communities.

EAS eligibility require communities enplane an average of 10 or more passengers per day during a fiscal year, and require a rate of subsidy per passenger of under $200. For FY16, 27 communities were identified that failed to meet these eligibility requirements.

Since 8 of the 27 communities failing to meet requirements experienced service level irregularities or hiatus during FY16, the department has opted to issue them 1-year waivers.

EAS Communities granted waivers:
AL Muscle Shoals
CA El Centro
CO Pueblo
GA Macon
KS Salina
MS Tupelo
OR Pendleton
UT Vernal

EAS Communities determined to have fewer than 10 enplanements/day:
NY Jamestown - 4.9
PA Altoona - 5.2
PA Bradford - 8.4
PA DuBois - 8.7
PA Franklin/Oil City - 5.8
TX Victoria - 6.8

EAS Communities determined to have per-passenger subsidies in excess of $200
AZ Prescott - $411
CO Alamosa - $296
IA Fort Dodge - $281
IA Mason City - $241
KY Owensboro - $239
MD Hagerstown - $241
NE Kearney - $231
NE Scottsbluff - $267
NY Jamestown - $656
PA Altoona - $734
PA Bradford - $395
PA DuBois - $412
PA Franklin/Oil City - $428
PA Johnstown - $281
PA Lancaster - $379
TN Jackson - $318
TX Victoria - $538
WV Clarksburg - $255
WV Parkersburg - $406

Affected communities have 20-days to petition DOT for waivers before termination order becomes final.

Order: 2017-9-23
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ThomasMTroxell
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:09 pm

I'm not sure why Macon continually gets an EAS waiver. It has nearly hourly Groom shuttle services to ATL Airport and Downtown/Midtown/Buckhead. On a good day its an hour drive to the ATL airport. If MCN gets EAS service then so should Rome, GA and Athens, GA. There's a reason why DL Connection cancelled the route many years ago.
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LAXintl
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:09 am

Macon got a pass this year since it had no air-service in FY16. Yes it sounds strange but DOT won't throw them out of the program until they have some hard performance numbers to determine their eligibility. Anyhow, without any service, its not a cost for taxpayers to worry about.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
smokeybandit
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:00 am

Altoona never made sense to me with state college being 40 minutes away
 
ikramerica
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:25 am

Not just Altoona. Little of it makes sense when there could be a "thruway coach service" similar to what Amtrak does. Check in at the airport, have your luggage screened and board the bus. Be delivered to the bigger airport, go through security again and get on your plane. Your tagged luggage will be rescreened without you and be loaded.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
cheapgreek
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:53 am

Ditch the EAS program. When one chooses to live in a rural area, it has many advantages, I.E. low home costs, light car traffic, small schools, etc. A disadvantage is no local air service and driving to a nearby airport with commercial service. The EAS has wasted millions over the years that could have been allocated to other small airports to attract new carriers and new flights to augment the present service. Those 5 or so daily passengers can car pool to another nearby airport and board a proper plane with a major carrier.
 
HPRamper
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:16 am

cheapgreek wrote:
Ditch the EAS program. When one chooses to live in a rural area, it has many advantages, I.E. low home costs, light car traffic, small schools, etc. A disadvantage is no local air service and driving to a nearby airport with commercial service. The EAS has wasted millions over the years that could have been allocated to other small airports to attract new carriers and new flights to augment the present service. Those 5 or so daily passengers can car pool to another nearby airport and board a proper plane with a major carrier.

If only it were so easy. EAS has been abused, but killing it isn't the answer. It just needs an infusion of common sense.
 
mikejepp
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:55 pm

cheapgreek wrote:
Ditch the EAS program. When one chooses to live in a rural area, it has many advantages, I.E. low home costs, light car traffic, small schools, etc. A disadvantage is no local air service and driving to a nearby airport with commercial service. The EAS has wasted millions over the years that could have been allocated to other small airports to attract new carriers and new flights to augment the present service. Those 5 or so daily passengers can car pool to another nearby airport and board a proper plane with a major carrier.


Its not just for the people that live there.

What about the businessman who wants to go there to close a deal for a new facility in town... that will drastically increase employment? Or the doctor that wants to go there to treat a rare health condition a child has? Or the soldier who has a few days leave and wants to go visit relatives for a holiday?

EAS can be a really good thing. But a lot has changed since its inception, namely the speed of surface transportation. It should still exist, but only to service communities far and away from any commercial airport (say not within a 3 hour drive) and it needs to be done with the smallest cheapest equipment. King Airs and PC-12s. Not RJs.
 
ikramerica
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:15 pm

mikejepp wrote:
cheapgreek wrote:
Ditch the EAS program. When one chooses to live in a rural area, it has many advantages, I.E. low home costs, light car traffic, small schools, etc. A disadvantage is no local air service and driving to a nearby airport with commercial service. The EAS has wasted millions over the years that could have been allocated to other small airports to attract new carriers and new flights to augment the present service. Those 5 or so daily passengers can car pool to another nearby airport and board a proper plane with a major carrier.


Its not just for the people that live there.

What about the businessman who wants to go there to close a deal for a new facility in town... that will drastically increase employment? Or the doctor that wants to go there to treat a rare health condition a child has? Or the soldier who has a few days leave and wants to go visit relatives for a holiday?

EAS can be a really good thing. But a lot has changed since its inception, namely the speed of surface transportation. It should still exist, but only to service communities far and away from any commercial airport (say not within a 3 hour drive) and it needs to be done with the smallest cheapest equipment. King Airs and PC-12s. Not RJs.

Bingo. EAS for dense states in the north east is wasteful. There might be one or two locations, but otherwise if it's a two hour drive to another airport it's just pork. Out west it's a bit different. You could be 4-5 hours from the nearest airport that has regular service, but that's only a morning flight to a hub, which means you would have to drive overnight to catch the flight.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:40 pm

ikramerica wrote:
mikejepp wrote:
cheapgreek wrote:
Ditch the EAS program. When one chooses to live in a rural area, it has many advantages, I.E. low home costs, light car traffic, small schools, etc. A disadvantage is no local air service and driving to a nearby airport with commercial service. The EAS has wasted millions over the years that could have been allocated to other small airports to attract new carriers and new flights to augment the present service. Those 5 or so daily passengers can car pool to another nearby airport and board a proper plane with a major carrier.


Its not just for the people that live there.

What about the businessman who wants to go there to close a deal for a new facility in town... that will drastically increase employment? Or the doctor that wants to go there to treat a rare health condition a child has? Or the soldier who has a few days leave and wants to go visit relatives for a holiday?

EAS can be a really good thing. But a lot has changed since its inception, namely the speed of surface transportation. It should still exist, but only to service communities far and away from any commercial airport (say not within a 3 hour drive) and it needs to be done with the smallest cheapest equipment. King Airs and PC-12s. Not RJs.

Bingo. EAS for dense states in the north east is wasteful. There might be one or two locations, but otherwise if it's a two hour drive to another airport it's just pork. Out west it's a bit different. You could be 4-5 hours from the nearest airport that has regular service, but that's only a morning flight to a hub, which means you would have to drive overnight to catch the flight.
what are the rules to be eligible for EAS?
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
adam47150
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:56 pm

I never understood why Owensboro was kept in the EAS program with Evansville less than an hours drive away. In fact, commercial service at OWB confuses me. Allegiant could easily shift their SFB passengers to EVV and Cape Air would be the only one in the market with service to STL.
 
NBGSkyGod
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:19 pm

The thing about EAS in the Northeast and as well as some other areas, is that yes in good weather they are 1 to 3 hours from a decent sized airport. However, while the decent sized airport is having nice weather and things are operating on time, where the passengers live, or the terrain in between may be having severe weather. Thus, EAS makes sense since now the drive time could easily double. Not to mention, many of the manufacturing industries are moving their operations out into these areas, which means, these services are needed for commuting between cities. Now is there some consolidations, and rearranging that could be done, absolutely. In addition, many communities rely on these services for jobs. It employs pilots, and several people at each airport. You have rampers, CSRs, TSA (in most cases), and fuelers. All of these positions are usually sourced locally.
Pilots are idiots, who at any given moment will attempt to kill themselves or others.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:48 pm

It's getting more difficult for smaller prop airlines to get pilots. I wonder if that has something to do with it.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
flyfresno
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Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:53 pm

At the very least, "small hub" airports should be added to the EAS rules. Currently the rules state that a community qualifies if it's more that 210 miles from a medium or larger hub (hub by government standards)...but plenty of small hubs have more than enough air service to adequately serve nearby EAS markets.
 
Rdh3e
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:56 pm

Unless the EAS carrier had code share with a major at the destination airport the traffic volumes are always terrible.

I'd expect the communities PenAir is dropping will be given waivers. Get a real airline in there like SkyWest and the traffic recovers overnight.
 
Jshank83
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:00 pm

adam47150 wrote:
I never understood why Owensboro was kept in the EAS program with Evansville less than an hours drive away. In fact, commercial service at OWB confuses me. Allegiant could easily shift their SFB passengers to EVV and Cape Air would be the only one in the market with service to STL.


Decatur has Springfield and Champaign with air service 45 minutes in each direction. That one is the craziest to me.
 
MO11
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:04 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
It's getting more difficult for smaller prop airlines to get pilots. I wonder if that has something to do with it.


No. In efforts to reduce funding for EAS, Congress passed more stringent rules (most notably in 2000 and 2012) under which communities qualify for an EAS subsidy. These rules also require the DOT to audit traffic at subsidized communities and take action should traffic fall below (or subsidy/passenger rise above) statutory limits.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:05 pm

It would be cheaper, particularly for any locale 100-150 miles from an airport to subsidize ground transportation. The locale ought to be required to provide some subsidy.

It has been, and in my estimation should be, a responsibility for government to provide assistance in communication and transportation throughout all US territory. This should not be an 'absolute' requirement, but rather appropriate and as economical as possible. When I lived in the bush in Alaska this meant a small plane once or twice a week.

A political note: Most isolated areas vote for the party against all taxes, and it is dismaying to see communities totally dependent on the state and federal t*t enjoying benefits and voting against the taxes that support them. Go Figure!
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
flyfresno
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:07 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
adam47150 wrote:
I never understood why Owensboro was kept in the EAS program with Evansville less than an hours drive away. In fact, commercial service at OWB confuses me. Allegiant could easily shift their SFB passengers to EVV and Cape Air would be the only one in the market with service to STL.


Decatur has Springfield and Champaign with air service 45 minutes in each direction. That one is the craziest to me.


See "small hub" comment above...EVV's 5-6 nonstop destinations are plenty of connectivity for that region, but since it's a "small hub" by gov standards, OWB can have EAS. Same goes for up in Illinois...
 
DfwRevolution
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:14 pm

cheapgreek wrote:
Ditch the EAS program. When one chooses to live in a rural area, it has many advantages, I.E. low home costs, light car traffic, small schools, etc. A disadvantage is no local air service and driving to a nearby airport with commercial service.


Bingo. :checkmark:

mikejepp wrote:
What about the businessman who wants to go there to close a deal for a new facility in town... that will drastically increase employment? Or the doctor that wants to go there to treat a rare health condition a child has? Or the soldier who has a few days leave and wants to go visit relatives for a holiday?


Oh good grief. What about them? :rotfl:

Keep the sob stories coming.

NBGSkyGod wrote:
Not to mention, many of the manufacturing industries are moving their operations out into these areas, which means, these services are needed for commuting between cities.


If there is demand for air services, then the government doesn't need to be subsidizing it.

NBGSkyGod wrote:
In addition, many communities rely on these services for jobs. It employs pilots, and several people at each airport. You have rampers, CSRs, TSA (in most cases), and fuelers. All of these positions are usually sourced locally.


We get it. It's classic pork-barrel spending. EAS is a wonderful program for politicians because the costs are diffuse and the benefits are concentrated.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
Skywatcher
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:32 pm

I can just hear the pigs oinking every time this topic comes up. Why does a "socialist" nation like Canada not have an EAS like program when we have many similar, far flung communities with no air service? How about Australia? The U.S. is addicted to Federal government debt and programs like the EAS although small in global numbers is part of the problem. Is it poor people who benefit or businessmen?
 
lavalampluva
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:35 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
It would be cheaper, particularly for any locale 100-150 miles from an airport to subsidize ground transportation. The locale ought to be required to provide some subsidy.

It has been, and in my estimation should be, a responsibility for government to provide assistance in communication and transportation throughout all US territory. This should not be an 'absolute' requirement, but rather appropriate and as economical as possible. When I lived in the bush in Alaska this meant a small plane once or twice a week.

A political note: Most isolated areas vote for the party against all taxes, and it is dismaying to see communities totally dependent on the state and federal t*t enjoying benefits and voting against the taxes that support them. Go Figure!

Everyone wants something but then doesn't want others to have the same thing.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
masseybrown
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:46 pm

This will just about wipe out Southern Airways PIT/BWI operations, assumng it happens. It's not an election year, so this time it just might.
 
Jshank83
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:48 pm

flyfresno wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
adam47150 wrote:
I never understood why Owensboro was kept in the EAS program with Evansville less than an hours drive away. In fact, commercial service at OWB confuses me. Allegiant could easily shift their SFB passengers to EVV and Cape Air would be the only one in the market with service to STL.


Decatur has Springfield and Champaign with air service 45 minutes in each direction. That one is the craziest to me.


See "small hub" comment above...EVV's 5-6 nonstop destinations are plenty of connectivity for that region, but since it's a "small hub" by gov standards, OWB can have EAS. Same goes for up in Illinois...


I know what the rules are, I am saying they need changed because Decatur should in no way have EAS service with the other airports so close. Besides if the 210 mile qualifier is correct Decatur, Cape, Quincy, Marion are all well within that to STL. So none of them should have it.
 
jimatkins
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:10 pm

This is pretty ridiculous. I'm familiar with the Prescott AZ area. There are shuttle vans from Prescott and Prescott Valley (my dad lives there) to PHX, $37 one way. Silly to be subsidizing passengers at $411 each to avoid a 90 minute ride down to Phoenix.
 
PHLCVGAMTK
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:27 pm

Lancaster, PA is an egregious case. It's an 80-minute, $17 train ride to Philadelphia 30th Street, and another 20 minutes to the PHL terminals.
 
sfjeff
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:28 pm

PHLCVGAMTK wrote:
Lancaster, PA is an egregious case. It's an 80-minute, $17 train ride to Philadelphia 30th Street, and another 20 minutes to the PHL terminals.


Or a 40 minute drive to MDT.
Jeff in Málaga
 
Bald1983
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:32 pm

With the exception of Alaska, where it is air travel or no travel, the EAS should be cancelled. It is a monumental waste of money, like propping up Amtrak.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:57 pm

mikejepp wrote:
cheapgreek wrote:
Ditch the EAS program. When one chooses to live in a rural area, it has many advantages, I.E. low home costs, light car traffic, small schools, etc. A disadvantage is no local air service and driving to a nearby airport with commercial service. The EAS has wasted millions over the years that could have been allocated to other small airports to attract new carriers and new flights to augment the present service. Those 5 or so daily passengers can car pool to another nearby airport and board a proper plane with a major carrier.


Its not just for the people that live there.

What about the businessman who wants to go there to close a deal for a new facility in town... that will drastically increase employment? Or the doctor that wants to go there to treat a rare health condition a child has? Or the soldier who has a few days leave and wants to go visit relatives for a holiday?

EAS can be a really good thing. But a lot has changed since its inception, namely the speed of surface transportation. It should still exist, but only to service communities far and away from any commercial airport (say not within a 3 hour drive) and it needs to be done with the smallest cheapest equipment. King Airs and PC-12s. Not RJs.

It is a government program full of waste and corruption.

I love Aviation,but at some point a bus is cheaper and more efficient. EAS is hurting air taxi operations. So between viable self funding and gov
Winter is coming.
 
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iseeyyc
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:03 pm

cheapgreek wrote:
Ditch the EAS program. When one chooses to live in a rural area, it has many advantages, I.E. low home costs, light car traffic, small schools, etc. A disadvantage is no local air service and driving to a nearby airport with commercial service.


Skywatcher wrote:
I can just hear the pigs oinking every time this topic comes up. Why does a "socialist" nation like Canada not have an EAS like program when we have many similar, far flung communities with no air service? How about Australia? The U.S. is addicted to Federal government debt and programs like the EAS although small in global numbers is part of the problem.


In Canada we have a similar landmass to cover and 1/10 the economy to support it. Even though the distances between cities are greater, we are accustomed to this and do not expect RJs providing hourly service to everyone. Its Q100's at premium prices, or driving.

Imagine someone in the USA who earns $50k, that same person in Canada earns $50k Canadian (1/3 less buying power) and has to deal with higher costs of everything (shipping, bilingual labeling, etc). Flying is more of a luxury here as the cost is higher relative to the average income.

EAS has no reason to exist. Suck it up. Its easy for Americans to forget how much their propped-up dollar has helped subsidize their ways. That advantage continues to slip away. Future spending has to be more closely scrutinized.
 
32andBelow
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:48 am

iseeyyc wrote:
cheapgreek wrote:
Ditch the EAS program. When one chooses to live in a rural area, it has many advantages, I.E. low home costs, light car traffic, small schools, etc. A disadvantage is no local air service and driving to a nearby airport with commercial service.


Skywatcher wrote:
I can just hear the pigs oinking every time this topic comes up. Why does a "socialist" nation like Canada not have an EAS like program when we have many similar, far flung communities with no air service? How about Australia? The U.S. is addicted to Federal government debt and programs like the EAS although small in global numbers is part of the problem.


In Canada we have a similar landmass to cover and 1/10 the economy to support it. Even though the distances between cities are greater, we are accustomed to this and do not expect RJs providing hourly service to everyone. Its Q100's at premium prices, or driving.

Imagine someone in the USA who earns $50k, that same person in Canada earns $50k Canadian (1/3 less buying power) and has to deal with higher costs of everything (shipping, bilingual labeling, etc). Flying is more of a luxury here as the cost is higher relative to the average income.

EAS has no reason to exist. Suck it up. Its easy for Americans to forget how much their propped-up dollar has helped subsidize their ways. That advantage continues to slip away. Future spending has to be more closely scrutinized.

Our propped up dollar? It's our dollar and our things? We aren't buying the things in Canada. We are buying the things in America.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:23 am

Skywatcher wrote:
I can just hear the pigs oinking every time this topic comes up. Why does a "socialist" nation like Canada not have an EAS like program when we have many similar, far flung communities with no air service? How about Australia?


I can't speak for Canada, but in Australia it is a state issue. If the state wants service to every two horse town then they are welcome to subsidise it, but the federal government doesn't pay. That strikes me as a much more sensible option.

For example, if you look at the route map for Rex the lines in red are subsidised by the state of Queensland. That makes sense as some of those communities are hours and hours away from the nearest paved highway, and these routes deliver everything from the mail to medical supplies. That's the sort of route that makes sense to me, not one where you are 90 minutes drive from an airport with service to four hubs. http://www.rex.com.au/FlightInfo/Network.aspx
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
drdisque
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:20 am

Kearney and Scottsbluff will get waivers because they are currently up for bid.

Clarksburg will get a waiver since they already have a new carrier under contract.
 
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Jamake1
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:03 am

Rdh3e wrote:
Unless the EAS carrier had code share with a major at the destination airport the traffic volumes are always terrible.

Get a real airline in there like SkyWest and the traffic recovers overnight.


Absolutely spot on.
Come fly the sun.
 
2Holer4Longhaul
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:50 am

sfjeff wrote:
PHLCVGAMTK wrote:
Lancaster, PA is an egregious case. It's an 80-minute, $17 train ride to Philadelphia 30th Street, and another 20 minutes to the PHL terminals.


Or a 40 minute drive to MDT.

Neither of which the Amish would take.
Then again, the Amish don't fly, either.
"You know, if you just set out to be liked, you would be prepared to compromise on anything, wouldn't you, at any time? And you would achieve nothing!" - Margaret Thatcher
 
smokeybandit
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:27 am

sfjeff wrote:
PHLCVGAMTK wrote:
Lancaster, PA is an egregious case. It's an 80-minute, $17 train ride to Philadelphia 30th Street, and another 20 minutes to the PHL terminals.


Or a 40 minute drive to MDT.


Or a 90 minute drive to BWI
 
ahj2000
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:00 pm

Our federal taxes pay 722$ a pop because people won’t drive an hour to State College? Pains me to agree with The Donald, but cut this mess!
-Andrés Juánez
 
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hhslax2
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Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:05 pm

drdisque wrote:
Kearney and Scottsbluff will get waivers because they are currently up for bid.

Clarksburg will get a waiver since they already have a new carrier under contract.


The ViaAir tenure at CKB couldn't have helped things. About 7 months worth of unreliable service and $60 r/t fares to BWI inclusive of taxes and fees was not sustainable. I'm glad the airport authority canned them.
http://www.wdtv.com/content/news/NCWV-A ... 32484.html

Based on the fares listed on UA's site, the SkyWest service to IAD and ORD under UA express should keep CKB off the list next year. It will be nice to have local air service again next month, but I still disagree with it being EAS subsidized. It is an hour and 45 minutes driving the speed limit to PIT from CKB, plus there is daily bus service. Inclement weather and traffic between Washington, PA and PIT on 79 and 376 don't justify EAS service.
 
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iseeyyc
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:12 pm

Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:15 pm

32andBelow wrote:
iseeyyc wrote:
cheapgreek wrote:
Ditch the EAS program. When one chooses to live in a rural area, it has many advantages, I.E. low home costs, light car traffic, small schools, etc. A disadvantage is no local air service and driving to a nearby airport with commercial service.


Skywatcher wrote:
I can just hear the pigs oinking every time this topic comes up. Why does a "socialist" nation like Canada not have an EAS like program when we have many similar, far flung communities with no air service? How about Australia? The U.S. is addicted to Federal government debt and programs like the EAS although small in global numbers is part of the problem.


In Canada we have a similar landmass to cover and 1/10 the economy to support it. Even though the distances between cities are greater, we are accustomed to this and do not expect RJs providing hourly service to everyone. Its Q100's at premium prices, or driving.

Imagine someone in the USA who earns $50k, that same person in Canada earns $50k Canadian (1/3 less buying power) and has to deal with higher costs of everything (shipping, bilingual labeling, etc). Flying is more of a luxury here as the cost is higher relative to the average income.

EAS has no reason to exist. Suck it up. Its easy for Americans to forget how much their propped-up dollar has helped subsidize their ways. That advantage continues to slip away. Future spending has to be more closely scrutinized.

Our propped up dollar? It's our dollar and our things? We aren't buying the things in Canada. We are buying the things in America.


Right, and as America's economy continues to decline in the face of globalization, so will the ability to justify $700 per passenger subsidies. The glory days are over.
 
cheapgreek
Posts: 566
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:57 pm

Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:17 am

mikejepp wrote:
cheapgreek wrote:
Ditch the EAS program. When one chooses to live in a rural area, it has many advantages, I.E. low home costs, light car traffic, small schools, etc. A disadvantage is no local air service and driving to a nearby airport with commercial service. The EAS has wasted millions over the years that could have been allocated to other small airports to attract new carriers and new flights to augment the present service. Those 5 or so daily passengers can car pool to another nearby airport and board a proper plane with a major carrier.


Its not just for the people that live there.

What about the businessman who wants to go there to close a deal for a new facility in town... that will drastically increase employment? Or the doctor that wants to go there to treat a rare health condition a child has? Or the soldier who has a few days leave and wants to go visit relatives for a holiday?

EAS can be a really good thing. But a lot has changed since its inception, namely the speed of surface transportation. It should still exist, but only to service communities far and away from any commercial airport (say not within a 3 hour drive) and it needs to be done with the smallest cheapest equipment. King Airs and PC-12s. Not RJs.


When did air travel become a right? People moving to a very small town should understand it has its drawbacks. Those EAS towns are hardly places where a large company will set up shop, not enough skilled workers, no rail lines to ship products and a lack of amenities that other larger cities have. People with rare illnesses are usually sent to a large city with hospitals that can diagnose and treat rare sicknesses. Small towns don't have the staff or equipment and usually only have a basic clinic. EAS is like a bloated welfare program, millions spent on a handful of people who choose to live in tiny towns and then expect large city benefits. Your above scenarios involve three people, hardly enough for one flight, never mind three flights. Those millions can be used for smaller city airports to add more commercial flights through the Air Carrier Incentive Program.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4421
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:45 am

Note: US claims sovereignty over our rural areas (and those citizens like it), hence a certain obligation to provide services. Are those disagreeing that they can withdraw from the US and turn to China or North Korea? Get smart!
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8250
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:01 am

EAS makes sense in some capacity however it hasn't been reworked to adjust the realities and requirements of the current state of the industry, changes in network air service, and changes in improved ground/road access.

There are many airports that perform well and meet the intent of EAS, however that are some that perform very poorly or are relics of the past and still get included based on outdated criteria.

They need to take in the proximity to nearby, non-EAS airports that have flights to network carrier hubs. They also need to take into consideration the ability to drive to hubs that have broader, national and international air service.

For my job, I often have to travel to manufacturing plants located nearby some of these EAS markets. The reality is the EAS service is so inconvenient and/or unreliable it doesn't make sense to use, especially when I get get nonstop service to an airport within 1-2 hours driving time from the city I need to visit. Its not worth making some off-line connection, more expensive, and on to some non-network carrier service in a 9/12 seat aircraft.

Hagerstown (HGR) - kill it, most people are going to use IAD or BWI, or if far enough north maybe MDT
Lancaster (LNS) - kill it, use MDT, PHL, or BWI instead
Altoona (AOO) - kill it, use SCE/UNV instead and/or consolidate EAS service with JST
Johnstown (JST) - consider keeping it, at the expense of Altoona, AOO
DuBois (DUJ) - kill it, most are going to use SCE/UNV or drive to PIT
Bradford, PA - consolidate with Jamestown, NY
Jamestown, NY - consolidate with Bradford, PA
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3501
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:16 am

cheapgreek wrote:
mikejepp wrote:
cheapgreek wrote:
Ditch the EAS program. When one chooses to live in a rural area, it has many advantages, I.E. low home costs, light car traffic, small schools, etc. A disadvantage is no local air service and driving to a nearby airport with commercial service. The EAS has wasted millions over the years that could have been allocated to other small airports to attract new carriers and new flights to augment the present service. Those 5 or so daily passengers can car pool to another nearby airport and board a proper plane with a major carrier.


Its not just for the people that live there.

What about the businessman who wants to go there to close a deal for a new facility in town... that will drastically increase employment? Or the doctor that wants to go there to treat a rare health condition a child has? Or the soldier who has a few days leave and wants to go visit relatives for a holiday?

EAS can be a really good thing. But a lot has changed since its inception, namely the speed of surface transportation. It should still exist, but only to service communities far and away from any commercial airport (say not within a 3 hour drive) and it needs to be done with the smallest cheapest equipment. King Airs and PC-12s. Not RJs.


When did air travel become a right? People moving to a very small town should understand it has its drawbacks. Those EAS towns are hardly places where a large company will set up shop, not enough skilled workers, no rail lines to ship products and a lack of amenities that other larger cities have. People with rare illnesses are usually sent to a large city with hospitals that can diagnose and treat rare sicknesses. Small towns don't have the staff or equipment and usually only have a basic clinic. EAS is like a bloated welfare program, millions spent on a handful of people who choose to live in tiny towns and then expect large city benefits. Your above scenarios involve three people, hardly enough for one flight, never mind three flights. Those millions can be used for smaller city airports to add more commercial flights through the Air Carrier Incentive Program.

Who says any of those people are moving to a small town? Maybe they grew up there. Agriculture is still a massive industry in much of the country, access is important.

Not to mention it's silly to say EAS communities don't host large businesses. Not every corporation needs to move hundreds of people a day to operate.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
cheapgreek
Posts: 566
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:57 pm

Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:05 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Note: US claims sovereignty over our rural areas (and those citizens like it), hence a certain obligation to provide services. Are those disagreeing that they can withdraw from the US and turn to China or North Korea? Get smart!


Services like police and fire protection, not subsidizing a handful of people on money losing flights.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4421
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:37 pm

I can assure you that there were no police or firemen stationed in any on the small villages I stayed at out in the bush. Again communication and minimal transportation needs must be met. My home state (not Alaska) spends disproportionate amounts of money on roads for our extensive rural areas, and the cities which pay for it don't complain much. The problem is of course that the only way large groups make decisions is by political processes and those are prone to going wrong. There is no alternative.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
WeatherPilot
Posts: 557
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:51 am

Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:44 am

It's always been shown that easy access to transportation is the number one way for someone to climb out of poverty or improve their standard of living.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15100
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:05 am

WeatherPilot wrote:
It's always been shown that easy access to transportation is the number one way for someone to climb out of poverty or improve their standard of living.

But clinging to "ancestral homes" and "tribal associations" inhibit upward mobility. Staying in a deadend town and watching it slowly turn into a ghost town isn't the path out of poverty. EAS won't change that.

Either that remote place continues for a valid reason that can justify an EAS flight or it doesn't get one. And if it's only remote in that it would add 90 minutes to go to a larger airport that supports commercial service, sorry, you should drive or your town should contract a ground shuttle service.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
cheapgreek
Posts: 566
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:57 pm

Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:13 am

WeatherPilot wrote:
It's always been shown that easy access to transportation is the number one way for someone to climb out of poverty or improve their standard of living.


Most move out of the rural towns to improve their standard of living. I agree roads to small towns are needed, but not 3-5 passengers per flight. The entitlement mentality is alive and well in this country. Last month protesters with signs reading, " health care is a right" marched on Washington. I have never seen such a mind set to think everyone is to get everything they ask for, but not willing to pay for it. EAS money is thrown away on airports that are not self sustaining. The present airline route system is quite large and meets the needs of well over 90% travelers who pay their way and airlines make money.
 
philabos
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:24 pm

Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:45 am

[list=][/list]
PHLCVGAMTK wrote:
Lancaster, PA is an egregious case. It's an 80-minute, $17 train ride to Philadelphia 30th Street, and another 20 minutes to the PHL terminals.


As someone else has already pointed out, a 30 minute drive to MDT.
I have watched this go on for years, a 2.6 million annual subsidy.
But hey, free parking! Instituted when Specter was Senator. The local airport board with prominent community members put the heat on the local Congressman and U S Senators and the bacon comes through! If they didn't waste money here some other undeserving community would score!
Sad, but true.
 
AAvgeek744
Posts: 750
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:08 pm

Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:36 am

Bald1983 wrote:
With the exception of Alaska, where it is air travel or no travel, the EAS should be cancelled. It is a monumental waste of money, like propping up Amtrak.


Absolutely. People claim it brings new industry and business to a town with air service. I'd love to see some proof that cities with EAS are positively affected.

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