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LAXintl
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China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:20 am

4x weekly 77W effective "Spring 2018"

China Airlines Announces Historic Trans-Pacific Service at Ontario International Airport, California
http://www.flyontario.com/corporate/new ... al-airport

=

The announcement follows airport this week announcing incentive package for the service.

Good luck. Personally, hate to see the yields on this flight. Its one thing to attract ethnic VFR, another to get premium biz corporate traffic. Also ONT has no benefit beyond feed like LAX does on DL, plus 77W is a pretty large and premium heavy aircraft to start with.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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787fan8
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:27 am

A major win for ONT, but I'm surprised it won't be served with the A350.
Last edited by 787fan8 on Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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modesto2
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:30 am

Whoa, that's some big news. Curious why they're not operating it with the A350.
 
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Miami
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:37 am

Didn't see this coming...
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
910A
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:59 am

LAXintl wrote:
4x weekly 77W effective "Spring 2018"

China Airlines Announces Historic Trans-Pacific Service at Ontario International Airport, California
http://www.flyontario.com/corporate/new ... al-airport

=

The announcement follows airport this week announcing incentive package for the service.

Good luck. Personally, hate to see the yields on this flight. Its one thing to attract ethnic VFR, another to get premium biz corporate traffic. Also ONT has no benefit beyond feed like LAX does on DL, plus 77W is a pretty large and premium heavy aircraft to start with.


Not knowing the hours for the flight, I guessing late night, it might attract some connecting business travel from PHX and LAS, from passengers that want to avoid LAX.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:17 am

LAXintl wrote:
4x weekly 77W effective "Spring 2018"

China Airlines Announces Historic Trans-Pacific Service at Ontario International Airport, California
http://www.flyontario.com/corporate/new ... al-airport

=

The announcement follows airport this week announcing incentive package for the service.

Good luck. Personally, hate to see the yields on this flight. Its one thing to attract ethnic VFR, another to get premium biz corporate traffic. Also ONT has no benefit beyond feed like LAX does on DL, plus 77W is a pretty large and premium heavy aircraft to start with.


ONT is really not any different than when NH started at SJC, airline-service-wise. If CI turns out to be mostly successful at ONT, it is possible that ONT will see the same behavior as SJC.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:24 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
ONT is really not any different than when NH started at SJC, airline-service-wise. If CI turns out to be mostly successful at ONT, it is possible that ONT will see the same behavior as SJC.


I'd say its quite different.

o Bay Area-Tokyo is a larger and more premium market than LA-TPE.
o ANA 787 is sized almost 200 seats less than CI 77W.
o ANA enjoys a JV with United and has benefits of its sales force, marketing, and corporate traffic to help fill the plane.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
many321
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:29 am

Nice! Wish ONT best of luck.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:40 am

Sheesh a 77W? Interested in seeing how this plays out.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:53 am

Wish them luck.... they'll need it.

But if they could pull this off, then it's a major score for ONT, which might have others give it a second look.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
RTWin10
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:54 am

Interesting how the press release failed to mention the first year incentive...

All that said, with a 77W, that's a lot of cargo that could also be moved through ONT. It will be interesting to see how this shapes up...
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:56 am

“Today’s development is a monumental step in ONT’s evolution toward becoming just the second trans-oceanic gateway airport in the history of Southern California, and equally impressive is that it occurred within a year of the airport’s transition to local control,” said Alan D. Wapner, President of the Ontario International Airport Authority and Mayor pro Tem of the City of Ontario.


So in other words, this mofo doesn't know that there's a place called San Diego, or where it's located? :razz:
Last edited by LAX772LR on Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
727200
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:56 am

1) How much is the subsidy from ONT? 2) Anyone want to start a pool how long this flight lasts?
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:59 am

Wow! It's really happening. Great to see ONT's fortunes continuing to improve. Hopefully enough people value the convenience of this service to make it last. What's next for ONT? A return of Hawaii, perhaps with the new HA A321? Mexican beach resorts (SJD, maybe PVR) on WN?
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
RTWin10
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:01 am

727200 wrote:
1) How much is the subsidy from ONT?


Waiver of landing and terminal fees for up to one year.

Source: http://www.dailybulletin.com/2017/09/28 ... l-service/
 
upwardfacing
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:21 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
Wow! It's really happening. Great to see ONT's fortunes continuing to improve. Hopefully enough people value the convenience of this service to make it last. What's next for ONT? A return of Hawaii, perhaps with the new HA A321? Mexican beach resorts (SJD, maybe PVR) on WN?


Even better if there is a return to year-round flights (as opposed to sporadic seasonal service) to ORD and ATL to improve access to the Midwest, Northeast, and South.

Additional frequencies or new destinations within the Western USA would be useful as well.

RE Mexico, there are already flights to GDL and BJX.

Routes like this spark attention, but improved domestic connectivity via both the legacy carriers and LCCs would serve more people.
 
grbauc
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:34 am

Maybe WN will move its hub back..
 
grbauc
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:43 am

If I was running ONT now Id give the farm away in givebacks to get airlines to use ONT so that maybe just maybe it could return to a bit of its former self.. Id market themselves has the cheaper option vs LAX.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:48 am

You can find one stop LAXTPE roundtrip all in for $426...so g’luck.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
wedgetail737
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:02 am

What happened to the charter flights between China and ONT?
 
coolfish1103
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:10 am

As a result TPE-LAX will be reduced.

Likely 10 weekly LAX + 4 weekly ONT.

Won't be surprised to see LAX back to 14 weekly during peak season, though.
 
dc10lover
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:57 am

What about ANA ONT to NRT non - stop using the 787 - 8.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
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mariner
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:08 am

LAXintl wrote:
Personally, hate to see the yields on this flight. Its one thing to attract ethnic VFR, another to get premium biz corporate traffic.


Are they looking for premium biz corporate traffic?

I would think that high end traffic would go to LAX, leaving this route to VFR/Leisure, etc.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Beardown91737
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:24 am

Good things are happening under local control. Great work OIAA. Hope this spawns a resumption of ATL.

Eat it haters.

RTWin10 wrote:
Interesting how the press release failed to mention the first year incentive...

All that said, with a 77W, that's a lot of cargo that could also be moved through ONT. It will be interesting to see how this shapes up...


Press releases are to publicize the flight. Potential passengers don't care about the subsidy.
135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
 
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OA940
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:32 am

I'd love to see more airlines start long-haul flights to ONT. More chances if CI succeeds. But will it? Possibly... At least we can all expect the 57x daily EK flights within the coming months.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
continental004
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:07 am

I hope this route does well with the loads of Taiwanese, Chinese, Filipinos and Vietnamese in the San Gabriel Valley and the Inland Empire and the growing business ties with Asia.

Business travel isn't everything. The vast majority of international travelers are price-sensitive in cattle class. Why do you think Ryanair and Easyjet have done so well?
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:40 am

continental004 wrote:
Business travel isn't everything. The vast majority of international travelers are price-sensitive in cattle class. Why do you think Ryanair and Easyjet have done so well?

Um, because they have vastly different cost bases, markets, operational logistics, flight profiles, fleet types, crew requirements and yield management... perhaps? :roll:
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
BGS91762
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:13 pm

mariner wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Personally, hate to see the yields on this flight. Its one thing to attract ethnic VFR, another to get premium biz corporate traffic.


Are they looking for premium biz corporate traffic?

I would think that high end traffic would go to LAX, leaving this route to VFR/Leisure, etc.

mariner

Not necessarily as many Chinese Business travelers are going to the San Gabriel Valley and OC
 
bfitzflyer
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:47 pm

Just seems like there are better opportunities than this. Say with ST partner, DL to SEA, ATL or DTW for starters among many others...
 
trex8
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:55 pm

That 77W is likely to be the one which used to go to FRA, the daily FRA flight is going A359 from March. I suspect when more A359s are delivered (they got 4 due next year, still another 2 more for the rest of this year to be delivered) they will go A359 but who knows, if this route does well maybe it can support a 77W. Though maybe running 2 different aircraft types to the general area may be a crewing issue, certainly simply to just have 777 crews in So Cal so ONT and LAX flights are easily covered.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:23 pm

mariner wrote:
Are they looking for premium biz corporate traffic?
I would think that high end traffic would go to LAX, leaving this route to VFR/Leisure, etc.


That might all be true, but they have lots of brand new lie-flat seats to fill onboard the large 77W cabin.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
GRUIAD
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:26 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
“Today’s development is a monumental step in ONT’s evolution toward becoming just the second trans-oceanic gateway airport in the history of Southern California, and equally impressive is that it occurred within a year of the airport’s transition to local control,” said Alan D. Wapner, President of the Ontario International Airport Authority and Mayor pro Tem of the City of Ontario.


So in other words, this mofo doesn't know that there's a place called San Diego, or where it's located? :razz:[/quote{

HALLELUJAH I thought I was the only one that caught this CORRECTION - ONT IS THE THIRD TRANS-OCEANIC GATEWAY IN SOCAL.
 
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ual747den
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:30 pm

This has to be a pure cargo situation, right? None of us are stupid enough to believe that ONT can support that flight!

ONT moves a lot of cargo and if they are offering to let you fly free fee for a year if you bring passengers with you then why not throw the flight on ONT rather than LAX, the cargo doesnt care.
Frontier Airlines - Low Fares Done Right
 
coolfish1103
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:37 pm

trex8 wrote:
That 77W is likely to be the one which used to go to FRA, the daily FRA flight is going A359 from March. I suspect when more A359s are delivered (they got 4 due next year, still another 2 more for the rest of this year to be delivered) they will go A359 but who knows, if this route does well maybe it can support a 77W. Though maybe running 2 different aircraft types to the general area may be a crewing issue, certainly simply to just have 777 crews in So Cal so ONT and LAX flights are easily covered.


FRA still has 77W. 77W is in excess ever since SFO dropped it for schedule mechanics.

There are only 3 destinations using 77W for long haul, that is LAX, JFK and FRA. They only need 7 aircrafts for these flights and they have 10 77W.

The reason why ONT is using 77W is because crew rotations. They are sharing crews for ONT and LAX.
 
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Devilfish
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:56 pm

continental004 wrote:
I hope this route does well with the loads of Taiwanese, Chinese, Filipinos and Vietnamese in the San Gabriel Valley and the Inland Empire and the growing business ties with Asia.

I can see Filipinos (esp. Chinoys) from the IE availing of this service if it's price competitive with other one-stop offerings...as there is no backtracking and TPE is just a short hop to MNL.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
BGS91762
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:06 pm

ual747den wrote:
This has to be a pure cargo situation, right? None of us are stupid enough to believe that ONT can support that flight!

ONT moves a lot of cargo and if they are offering to let you fly free fee for a year if you bring passengers with you then why not throw the flight on ONT rather than LAX, the cargo doesnt care.

Please explain why you think that having one of the largest Chinese communities in your catchment area makes this so unbelievable. I don't understand???
 
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Coronado990
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:27 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
“Today’s development is a monumental step in ONT’s evolution toward becoming just the second trans-oceanic gateway airport in the history of Southern California, and equally impressive is that it occurred within a year of the airport’s transition to local control,” said Alan D. Wapner, President of the Ontario International Airport Authority and Mayor pro Tem of the City of Ontario.


So in other words, this mofo doesn't know that there's a place called San Diego, or where it's located? :razz:


I think San Diego is technically in Lower Cal now (Lo Cal).
We're up.
 
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mercure1
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:00 pm

Seems like a total dartboard(or political) exercise especially with a premium heavy and large 777-300ER.


coolfish1103 wrote:
As a result TPE-LAX will be reduced.

Likely 10 weekly LAX + 4 weekly ONT.

I'm sure EVA with its 21 weekly LAX flights is pleased.
mercure f-wtcc
 
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LAXintl
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:24 pm

ual747den wrote:
This has to be a pure cargo situation, right? None of us are stupid enough to believe that ONT can support that flight!
ONT moves a lot of cargo and if they are offering to let you fly free fee for a year if you bring passengers with you then why not throw the flight on ONT rather than LAX, the cargo doesnt care.


As discussed in other threads, virtually entire LA basin freight forwarder and customs broker community is centered around LAX and Port of LA/LB. There is virtually no support infrastructure at ONT and east for such general freight.

Integrators like UPS have a totally different industry model than general cargo carriers like CI that rely on the support of freight forwarders and brokers to market and handle their flights.

To this end only couple years ago LAWA offered to give EVA Air a ONT warehouse for virtually free in return for moving some of its multiple LAX freighter flights to ONT, but carrier declined after studying and realizing it would be forced to essentially truck everything back and forth from LAX due lack of critical support industries.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:53 pm

BGS91762 wrote:
ual747den wrote:
This has to be a pure cargo situation, right? None of us are stupid enough to believe that ONT can support that flight!

ONT moves a lot of cargo and if they are offering to let you fly free fee for a year if you bring passengers with you then why not throw the flight on ONT rather than LAX, the cargo doesnt care.

Please explain why you think that having one of the largest Chinese communities in your catchment area makes this so unbelievable. I don't understand???

Because they're used to paying rock-bottom prices, which doesn't bode well for sustaining a 14hr flight from a tertiary gateway.

From here, it's often more expensive to fly to places like Cancun and Montreal than it is to/from some Asian places like Manila, Ho Chi Minh City/Saigon, and just about anywhere in central China.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
coolfish1103
Posts: 220
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:05 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Seems like a total dartboard(or political) exercise especially with a premium heavy and large 777-300ER.

I'm sure EVA with its 21 weekly LAX flights is pleased.


It is a political route but I see success in it cause the community it wants to serve actually exists with LAX being a total disaster. Many Taiwanese have moved to OC and East of LA and ONT is actually more convenient than LAX for them. I am unsure if VIP is the main target though as they are extremely price sensitive, but ONT itself probably can't price too high or people will just flock to LAX as it has more offerrings than just TPE and via TPE.

Technically I don't think EVA will be very happy with this action as CAL is usually only flying 12 weekly during low season and 14 (or sometimes even 16) weekly during high season. CI is simply only slashing 2 frequencies at LAX while adding 4 in ONT, in reality the amount of capacity is increased. Also, if there is extra demand, CI can easily add those frequencies back as they do have enough 77W to fly and the time slot is probably still there for them since they still fly 3 weekly (presuming the cancelled flight is 5/6).
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:06 pm

Why not set fire to a pile of cash? That sounds way easier.
Religion is the root of evil...
 
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VCEflyboy
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:15 pm

I don't understand why you guys are so negative.
It's great to see a new service. ONT being smaller and less popular most likely will bring airfares down. California as a whole has a huge asian population. Let us assume CI did their homework before starting service which anyway had been rumoured for a while. They get good incentives so the first year is a safe bet. Let's hope it'll be successful and the flight will stick around. Keep in mind this flight will connect to the Philippines and Thailand - not exactly premium destinations. ONT will allow CI to be more competitive on those routes. It'll be good for the consumer. Those who want premium service and the a350 can still fly from LAX.
 
many321
Posts: 292
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:59 pm

VCEflyboy wrote:
I don't understand why you guys are so negative.
It's great to see a new service. ONT being smaller and less popular most likely will bring airfares down. California as a whole has a huge asian population. Let us assume CI did their homework before starting service which anyway had been rumoured for a while. They get good incentives so the first year is a safe bet. Let's hope it'll be successful and the flight will stick around.


Exactly. Better for them to test the waters and see if it succeeds than not try at all and just continue to b#$% and moan on how LAX is bursting at the seems. I do see the service being a success since the community it will serve is rather large and lives just around the corner from ONT (Chino Hills, Rowland Heights, Diamond Bar, La Puente, Puente Hills, City of Industry, Fullerton, El Monte, Monterey Park, Temple City, and Alhambra).
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:42 pm

Those rock bottom fares to Asia are typically on mainland Chinese airlines, which generally have a poor reputation compared to CI and BR. In addition, Taiwanese nationals cannot enter PRC with a ROC passport and have to get a separate mainland permit or travel document to enter the PRC; I don't know if the same is required to merely transit PRC.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:11 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Why not set fire to a pile of cash? That sounds way easier.


Maybe you should express that to CI’s executive leadership since you clearly have greater insight than they do. ;) I’m not so sure this will fail actually. It serves a huge population base. Let’s wait and see how it does before jumping to conclusions.
 
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TheLion
Posts: 666
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:28 pm

If we could all agree on one thing, I hope it'd be that this is a truly groundbreaking route.
 
jonair8
Posts: 74
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:54 pm

I am very excited for this route for ONT. it does seem a bit odd that an airport gets nonstop service to TPE on a 77W, but has no service to ATL, JFK, HNL, or IAH. Hopefully this will be only the first of more exciting things to come. Good luck to CI, and I hope to be able to see them there in person soon. I do actually think they have a shot, and a niche market could be made here.
 
BGS91762
Posts: 95
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:17 pm

jonair8 wrote:
I am very excited for this route for ONT. it does seem a bit odd that an airport gets nonstop service to TPE on a 77W, but has no service to ATL, JFK, HNL, or IAH. Hopefully this will be only the first of more exciting things to come. Good luck to CI, and I hope to be able to see them there in person soon. I do actually think they have a shot, and a niche market could be made here.

Same situation in SJC and nobody is surprised there.
 
chiawei
Posts: 984
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Re: China Airlines announces TPE-ONT service

Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:12 am

BGS91762 wrote:
mariner wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Personally, hate to see the yields on this flight. Its one thing to attract ethnic VFR, another to get premium biz corporate traffic.


Are they looking for premium biz corporate traffic?

I would think that high end traffic would go to LAX, leaving this route to VFR/Leisure, etc.

mariner

Not necessarily as many Chinese Business travelers are going to the San Gabriel Valley and OC



People don't realize that majority of Taiwanese and Chinese actually lives closer to ONT than LAX.
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