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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:03 am

This isn't a one-way Qantas advantage AKL-PER, nor is it even an announcement yet. I certainly don;t expect cheaper fares if they do start.They will only enter the market if it makes sense. It's QF, so they will match fares rather than undercut them because Qantas is not incompetent (It would be different if it were VA), they are well run and profitable too, The QF seats PER-LHR were launched at the price $2400AU - flights that long have costs that must be covered in order to profit (it is a narrow window ULH). This will not be a cheap option to Europe from AKL, and will therefore only appeal to a few because most are affected by price. If they do encourage AKL too much with low fares they run a real risk of robbing the onward profits off PER-LHR,
I don't think for a moment that will affect NZ's point to point traffic AKL-PER. Most of New Zealand has Airpoints, Many have Airpoints mortgages and Airpoints credit cards too and that does affect their choice of carrier ex N.Z. When faced with a decision between the same price most people will go to the carrier they are affiliated with. QF have big resources, but using mainline QF crew as they have done AKL-PER leaves them with higher crew cost as well. I have no doubt QF will negotiate the minefield if they want to enter the market year round but I really wouldn't be surprised if they don't. One reason they fly PER-AKL-PER on weekends over summer is because that when domestic demand slackens in Oz, so they may as well fly it where there is a seasonal demand rather than just park it up or operate empty.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
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LamboAston
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:04 am

NZ321 wrote:
I imagine Sounds are looking at beech 1900D or Saab 340. There isn't much else they can look at is their? ATR 42 seems too big. Don't rate the chances of EMB120. Thoughts?

They publicly stated a few months ago that the 1900D and S340 were their two preferred options. Some ex-Eagle Air 1900Ds are still sitting in Australia and Silver Air S340s will be freed up soon.
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qf789
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:11 am

aerorobnz wrote:
This isn't a one-way Qantas advantage AKL-PER, nor is it even an announcement yet. I certainly don;t expect cheaper fares if they do start.They will only enter the market if it makes sense. It's QF, so they will match fares rather than undercut them because Qantas is not incompetent (It would be different if it were VA), they are well run and profitable too, The QF seats PER-LHR were launched at the price $2400AU - flights that long have costs that must be covered in order to profit (it is a narrow window ULH). This will not be a cheap option to Europe from AKL, and will therefore only appeal to a few because most are affected by price. If they do encourage AKL too much with low fares they run a real risk of robbing the onward profits off PER-LHR,
I don't think for a moment that will affect NZ's point to point traffic AKL-PER. Most of New Zealand has Airpoints, Many have Airpoints mortgages and Airpoints credit cards too and that does affect their choice of carrier ex N.Z. When faced with a decision between the same price most people will go to the carrier they are affiliated with. QF have big resources, but using mainline QF crew as they have done AKL-PER leaves them with higher crew cost as well. I have no doubt QF will negotiate the minefield if they want to enter the market year round but I really wouldn't be surprised if they don't. One reason they fly PER-AKL-PER on weekends over summer is because that when domestic demand slackens in Oz, so they may as well fly it where there is a seasonal demand rather than just park it up or operate empty.


The launch prices were not $2400, they were cheaper than that
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aerohottie
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:37 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
With the sale of a majority stake in the C Series programme to Airbus, and Air New Zealand's ongoing investment in maintenance of Pratt & Whitney engines, I wonder what the chances are now of an Air New Zealand C Series order?

V/F

One can only hope...
What?
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:35 am

qf789 wrote:

The launch prices were not $2400, they were cheaper than that

I think I remembered the fare converted in NZD then because the day they released the fares, I ran a quote for the route,
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:38 am

aerorobnz wrote:
qf789 wrote:

The launch prices were not $2400, they were cheaper than that

I think I remembered the fare converted in NZD then because the day they released the fares, I ran a quote for the route,


OK I was going off AUD when first announced they were 2200 AUD and I have since seen them at around 2000 AUD
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DavidJ08
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:42 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
If there are issues with long-haul connections, perhaps the way the tickets link up needs to be looked at - perhaps make all connectons automatically Works unless the passenger chooses otherwise?
V/F

Just had a quick go at trying to book a SYD-LAX on NZ - the economy connecting ticket seems to be automatically Works already (given where seat-select would let me pick seats), and the Y+/J options involving a trans-Tasman A320 do in fact have a highlighted bit saying "The selected service class is not available onboard from Sydney to Auckland. You will be seated in Economy for this flight." Correspondingly the J ticket SYD-LAX with SYD-AKL in A320 is cheaper than the one with SYD-LAX in B777; but interestingly the Y+ ticket is the same price whether it's A320 or B777. The seat select page shows that the Y+/J connecting tickets are automatically put in Works Deluxe. EDIT: But of course that's for direct bookings via NZ's website - those booking through travel agents and such may not get such a clear disclaimer that the A320 leg will be in Y.


Not a direct complaint about seats to suit but I did a comparison a while ago of trans-Tasman baseline non-sale fares vs product, and NZ actually isn't that great. The fares went JQ < VA < QF < EK < NZ, but QF and EK fares include luggage, IFE and meal whereas NZ charges extra for them. After accounting for luggage and meal (to make for an even comparison) the fares went JQ < VA = QF = EK << NZ. NZ A320 also loses on seat pitch at 30 inches (for comparison, JQ is 29in, QF is 30in, VA 31in, NZ 772/789 31in, NZ 77W 32in and EK 32in).

NZ's redeeming quality on trans-Tasman seems to be the frequent sales where they can match the sort of prices offered by JQ, and beat QF/EK by base price (for those willing to forego luggage and meal) - that and the the loyalty effect mentioned above with New Zealanders and our Airpoints memberships and credit cards.

The EK A380 doing trans-Tasman was somewhat of an anomaly, providing a great product at very reasonable prices, so I'm sad (but not completely surprised) to see them pull out of AKL - thankfully down here in CHC we still have the EK option for CHC-SYD.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:16 am

aerorobnz wrote:
I don't think for a moment that will affect NZ's point to point traffic AKL-PER. Most of New Zealand has Airpoints, Many have Airpoints mortgages and Airpoints credit cards too and that does affect their choice of carrier ex N.Z. When faced with a decision between the same price most people will go to the carrier they are affiliated with.

I've got an NZ credit card, multiple credit card earned lounge passes, airpoints account but use QF/JQ/One World as my first choice. I know several others including family who are also in the same boat as me and use QF/JQ instead

LamboAston wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
I imagine Sounds are looking at beech 1900D or Saab 340. There isn't much else they can look at is their? ATR 42 seems too big. Don't rate the chances of EMB120. Thoughts?

They publicly stated a few months ago that the 1900D and S340 were their two preferred options. Some ex-Eagle Air 1900Ds are still sitting in Australia and Silver Air S340s will be freed up soon.

Sounds Air have said today they are interested in 3x 1900D with proposal going to the board before the end of this year. If approval given the aircraft will be in service early next year mainly serving BHE-CHC https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/979520 ... -next-year
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a7ala
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:59 am

777ER wrote:
Sounds Air have said today they are interested in 3x 1900D with proposal going to the board before the end of this year. If approval given the aircraft will be in service early next year mainly serving BHE-CHC https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/979520 ... -next-year


Presumably serving WLG as well given the number of aircraft.
 
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mariner
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:04 am

a7ala wrote:
Presumably serving WLG as well given the number of aircraft.


Somewhere, certainly, given the number of aircraft and WLG seems an obvious one.

Assuming it happens - assuming the board signs off on it - it will be a quantum leap for a small airline. It changes the business model of Sounds - bigger planes, more flight crew, perhaps a different attitude to pricing and - more growth.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/979520 ... -next-year

"Larger planes between Christchurch and Blenheim could return early next year

Crawford said a decision would be made on the larger planes in December - if the board signed off on the addition to the fleet, the Beechcrafts would be in the sky early next year.

"We need to get onto it as soon as possible, so we're actively pursuing a decision. We'd be moving into twin-engines, and two pilots so it would be a huge step for us," he said.

The airline currently offered around 22 return flights a week between the two centres, priced at a flat rate of $199 one-way or $398 return. While he was unsure what impact introducing larger planes would have on pricing, Crawford said the Beechcrafts would give passengers more choice.

The decision to investigate larger planes was also made with an eye to growth.


This will all cost a fair amount of money - not just for the aircraft but increased staff numbers and different gear - and I've never really known the financial situation at Sounds except that Andrew Crawford is "the owner" - but he seems confident that money won't be a problem.

He's also (previously) put some limits on his airline - he doesn't intend to try and compete with NZ, he's often said "we know our niche", so its interesting to figure where else they might fly. The Beechccraft would also free up some Pilatus for other routes and a few years ago, before they started Westport, Crawford told Greymouth that it would figure in the airline's future. I think that would be a very interesting move.

Comes the whole question of Queenstown and environs, and perhaps they might do better at Wanaka - except that the terminal is so tiny. LOL.

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axio
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:56 am

Do Sounds Air currently operate their aircraft with 1 or 2 pilots? From what I remember the B1900 was 2 pilots (altho wikipedia indicates "Crew: 1 (2 for airline operations)").

WKA would be an interesting and potentially nice move, perhaps accommodated via BHE-CHC-WKA routing.
My other thoughts are
- Alexandra, perhaps seasonally. It's about an hour's drive from ZQN, although not the nicest (from a driving perspective) ride and might appreciate a limited service to CHC.
- West/East across the North Island, like NPL or HLZ to NPE. NPL/TUO could probably be trialed as an extension to existing WLG/TUO flights without too much hassle.
On the other hand I don't know if those are getting too far from their 'turf'.

They've certainly shown an interest in out-of-the-box routes before - I'm still amazed that BHE-NPE runs 6 weekly (including two 0610 starts from BHE). But I imagine if there wasn't a market they wouldn't be doing it. I also find it interesting that PPQ hasn't really gone anywhere, although perhaps transport to WLG is getting better and air2there has it covered.
Time for a new viewing deck at AKL!
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:21 am

Love to see Sounds Air get on to PPQ-AKL and restart PPQ CHC. They already fly PPQ-BHE and I think PPQ-NSN. NZ have not served this PPQ-AKL route well and fares have climbed since they reduced frequency. DH8 is just too big for off-peak flights. More frequency is what is needed for this route to grow and be viable to business travellers and those with international connections in the long term. People need a choice of 3-4 flights a day for it to be viable. B1900D can provide that without boosting capacity over the mark. Plenty of population on the coast - the fastest expanding region in greater Wellington and 60 mins drive from WLG airport if you are lucky, 2 hours easy during peak hour. But connections to Palmerston North from the coast are not easy. And train connections up the coast are so subject to delays from traffic congestion in central Wellington that it can add additional travelling time so that the total journey can easily exceed 3 hours from AKL departure to Kapiti Coast arrival. This is surely one opportunity for regional expansion.
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mariner
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:09 pm

axio wrote:
Do Sounds Air currently operate their aircraft with 1 or 2 pilots? From what I remember the B1900 was 2 pilots (altho wikipedia indicates "Crew: 1 (2 for airline operations)").


Both the Caravan and the Pilatius are operated with one pilot, as in:

mariner wrote:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/979520 ... -next-year

"We need to get onto it as soon as possible, so we're actively pursuing a decision. We'd be moving into twin-engines, and two pilots so it would be a huge step for us," he said.


That's why it's such a big step for a very small airline

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aerojoe
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:02 am

So what does Alan Joyce's comments today (reported in Stuff) on opportunities the 787s create for Qantas to North America mean for NZ's Australia-North America strategy? Are we likely to see more NZ North America moves sooner rather than later? I was interested that Qantas are talking about Seattle and Chicago.
 
Gasman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:13 am

aerojoe wrote:
So what does Alan Joyce's comments today (reported in Stuff) on opportunities the 787s create for Qantas to North America mean for NZ's Australia-North America strategy?

None.

Firstly, these are "paper" routes until proven otherwise. Secondly, QF have had a JFK service for years and the loadings have been sufficient to justify it - but only just. Any new ventures towards the East Coast they are going to need to evaluate very closely indeed.

As will NZ - which is a different airline, serving a slightly different culture, with different geographical limitations and a fraction of the population of QF. Apples and oranges. What QF does will obviously influence NZ, and vice versa - but not in advance of the event.
 
Deepinsider
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:50 am

777ER wrote:
aerorobnz wrote:
I don't think for a moment that will affect NZ's point to point traffic AKL-PER. Most of New Zealand has Airpoints, Many have Airpoints mortgages and Airpoints credit cards too and that does affect their choice of carrier ex N.Z. When faced with a decision between the same price most people will go to the carrier they are affiliated with.

I've got an NZ credit card, multiple credit card earned lounge passes, airpoints account but use QF/JQ/One World as my first choice. I know several others including family who are also in the same boat as me and use QF/JQ instead

Air Points and other freq/flyer schemes do have a big impact on peoples choice of carrier.
In the case, AKL-PER-LHR, I doubt QF would want their own flyers using it really, as
they can probably carry them more profitably on existing services, rather than such a critical
(operationally) route as PER-LHR.
For the rest of us, why would you want to go that way? Any one stop trip that avoids OZ
stopovers is already the first choice. Think SIN, BKK, HKG, NRT, PVG, DZB, DOH, (and even
AirNZ's North American LAX route, or it's connecting carriers there.) Going west though, all
great transit airports, with non critical sector lengths. Setting up AKL-PER flights just to connect
to LHR (& Europe later on) not worth the bother!
.




















flyer
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:20 am

aerojoe wrote:
So what does Alan Joyce's comments today (reported in Stuff) on opportunities the 787s create for Qantas to North America mean for NZ's Australia-North America strategy? Are we likely to see more NZ North America moves sooner rather than later? I was interested that Qantas are talking about Seattle and Chicago.


Before Qantas is able todo any of there grant 789 plans, they first need to place an top-up for 789s.

Pretty much all of there current fleet ordered will be tied up by the already launched route.

Effectively NZ could jump ahead an start routes like ORD from next year. QF would likely need to wait a few years for an top up order to be delivered.
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:18 pm

Yes - I suppose this is correct. QF have announced PER-LHR, BNE-LAX and MEL-LAX. So that is probably 7 units. That means that even if QF announce intent to operate, that NZ could announce the route and start operating well in advance of QF.
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Gemuser
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:39 pm

zkncj wrote:
Before Qantas is able todo any of there grant 789 plans, they first need to place an top-up for 789s.
Pretty much all of there current fleet ordered will be tied up by the already launched route.
Effectively NZ could jump ahead an start routes like ORD from next year. QF would likely need to wait a few years for an top up order to be delivered.


AJ has constantly stated that more B787s will be ordered as the options become due, not before. QF still have a capital adequacy problem and will not put liabilities on their balance sheet before they have to. I really don't think QF care what NZ do, its not unimportant, but not that important. The capital adequacy problem is far more important to QF than whatever NZ do.

Gemuser
 
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qf789
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:41 pm

zkncj wrote:
aerojoe wrote:
So what does Alan Joyce's comments today (reported in Stuff) on opportunities the 787s create for Qantas to North America mean for NZ's Australia-North America strategy? Are we likely to see more NZ North America moves sooner rather than later? I was interested that Qantas are talking about Seattle and Chicago.


Before Qantas is able todo any of there grant 789 plans, they first need to place an top-up for 789s.

Pretty much all of there current fleet ordered will be tied up by the already launched route.

Effectively NZ could jump ahead an start routes like ORD from next year. QF would likely need to wait a few years for an top up order to be delivered.


Not true, 4 frames MEL based frames will do MEL-LAX and MEL-PER-LHR, 4 BNE based frames will do BNE-LAX-JFK plus another route which will be announced by the end of the year, under consideration is DFW, ORD, YVR and SFO
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planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:40 am

Air New Zealand named top airline in the world

"Air New Zealand has been named Top Airline in the World by luxury and lifestyle magazine Conde Nast Traveler.

The American publication received more than 300,000 submissions for its 30th annual Readers' Choice Awards, which ranks hotels, cities, islands, airlines, airports and cruise lines.

Air NZ won its category from a field of 158 airlines worldwide.

The magazine cited Air NZ's attention to seat comfort, the convertible Skycouch in its economy cabin and its service of award-winning New Zealand wines.

Air NZ's other accolades in 2017 have included being named AirlineRating's.com pick for Airline of the Year and named Australasia's Leading Airline for the ninth year in a row at the World Travel Awards."


See: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news ... d=11934820.

Cheers,

C.
 
USAOZ
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:42 am

Gasman wrote:
aerojoe wrote:
So what does Alan Joyce's comments today (reported in Stuff) on opportunities the 787s create for Qantas to North America mean for NZ's Australia-North America strategy?

None.

Firstly, these are "paper" routes until proven otherwise. Secondly, QF have had a JFK service for years and the loadings have been sufficient to justify it - but only just. Any new ventures towards the East Coast they are going to need to evaluate very closely indeed.

As will NZ - which is a different airline, serving a slightly different culture, with different geographical limitations and a fraction of the population of QF. Apples and oranges. What QF does will obviously influence NZ, and vice versa - but not in advance of the event.

think QF are permitted to carry domestic U.S. freight LAX/JFK/LAX but no domestic only pax.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:47 am

Air New Zealand expands ANA domestic Japan codeshare

"Air New Zealand at the launch of Northern winter 2017/18 season plans to expand codeshare partnership with ANA, covering additional domestic Japan routes. From 30OCT17, planned new codeshare routes as follow.

Air New Zealand operated by ANA
Tokyo Haneda – Akita
Tokyo Haneda – Hiroshima"


See: http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... -oct-2017/.

Cheers,

C.
Last edited by planemanofnz on Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
USAOZ
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:47 am

Deepinsider wrote:
777ER wrote:
aerorobnz wrote:
I don't think for a moment that will affect NZ's point to point traffic AKL-PER. Most of New Zealand has Airpoints, Many have Airpoints mortgages and Airpoints credit cards too and that does affect their choice of carrier ex N.Z. When faced with a decision between the same price most people will go to the carrier they are affiliated with.

I've got an NZ credit card, multiple credit card earned lounge passes, airpoints account but use QF/JQ/One World as my first choice. I know several others including family who are also in the same boat as me and use QF/JQ instead

Air Points and other freq/flyer schemes do have a big impact on peoples choice of carrier.
In the case, AKL-PER-LHR, I doubt QF would want their own flyers using it really, as
they can probably carry them more profitably on existing services, rather than such a critical
(operationally) route as PER-LHR.
For the rest of us, why would you want to go that way? Any one stop trip that avoids OZ
stopovers is already the first choice. Think SIN, BKK, HKG, NRT, PVG, DZB, DOH, (and even
AirNZ's North American LAX route, or it's connecting carriers there.) Going west though, all
great transit airports, with non critical sector lengths. Setting up AKL-PER flights just to connect
to LHR (& Europe later on) not worth the bother!
.
your statement

"Air Points and other freq/flyer schemes do have a big impact on peoples choice of carrier."

I don't think is relevant as it used to be.

Read a report that said, many people collect ff pts, some even paying extra to use a credit card to do so, then they find, their million or so points, can't be used, when or where they want.

Most frequent flyer programmes used to be more generous. Have lots of QF pts which I wish were VA pts.


















flyer
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:08 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
I agree QR don't have many A380's so AKL seems a stretch, seasonal maybe where LHR/CDG get downguaged.

Notably:

- QR flies its A380s to some low-yielding destinations, like CAN (and not HKG or PVG), as well as BKK (and not SIN) - AKL is also a lower-yielding destination
- QR is diversifying at its busiest airports (like opening CWL near LHR, and UTP near BKK), which may reduce some need for A380s on traditional routes

In light of the above, it would not be far-fetched to envisage a scenario where QR uses its A380s to AKL, at least seasonally, and particularly if the 77Ls leave.

Cheers,

C.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:37 am

Now that NZ First and Labour has done an deal, I wonder how this will effect the current growth of air travel into New Zealand?
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:57 am

zkncj wrote:
Now that NZ First and Labour has done an deal, I wonder how this will effect the current growth of air travel into New Zealand?

There are a few factors to be considered, after tonight's coalition announcement:

- Tourist tax
Labour will charge international visitors to New Zealand a NZD 25 tax, to go into an infrastructure and conservation fund - on top of the current NZD 22 fee. IMHO, the effect of this additional tax will be minimal - it can easily be priced into the existing cost of air tickets, without serving as a big disincentive for in-bound tourism. At the same time, revenue from this tax will actually fund tourism infrastructure projects, which may actually incentivise further interest in New Zealand, by tourists.

- FTAs (China, Korea and TPP)
Labour will ban foreign, non-resident buyers from the New Zealand housing market, which will require a re-negotiation of our FTAs with China and Korea. Depending on the outcome of those re-negotiations, Chinese and Korean investment into New Zealand might suffer, which in turn, may affect the demand for air travel from those markets. Further, Labour wants to re-negotiate the TPP, which might affect longer-term opportunities for air travel to untapped markets, like Mexico and Peru.

- Immigration
Economic growth here is likely to be slightly lower now in the coming years, given Labour's plans for reduced levels of immigration (which have been a large boost to the economy in recent years). On the plus side, this is likely to reduce the value of the New Zealand dollar, making New Zealand cheaper (and therefore, more attractive) for overseas tourists. However, one potential negative might be reduced out-bound demand for leisure routes, like NZ's seasonal DPS and SGN flights.

Finally, although unlikely to affect demand for air travel, Labour is promising to build a 20 km light rail line from Auckland's CBD to AKL, which is to be welcomed.

Cheers,

C.
 
aerokiwi
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:49 am

The cumulative impact though is going to be nothing but negative or at least restrict growth. No component of the new government's policy platform appears to contribute to growth in air travel. And my sweet toosh that tourist tax money will go back to industry. Watch as the definition of "tourism infrastructure" expands to include just about everything (tourists use electricity, so...).

But as expected, this is what happens when you start adding new taxes - they accumulate. Key's "levy" and now Ardern's "Tourist Tax".

It would be naive to think any of the changes would have minimal impact, especially all combined. Just one growth centred policy would be nice. But.... well, hard to see much on the radar.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:13 am

aerokiwi wrote:
Key's "levy" and now Ardern's "Tourist Tax"

It will be interesting to see how Labour implements this additional tourist tax - for example, will Labour exclude transit passengers from the tax? If not, it could be argued that this will make NZ's offering in the Australia - Americas corridor less attractive, at a time when many airlines are opening up direct routes, avoiding the need to transit in AKL in the first place (e.g. AC's MEL - YVR service). On the other hand, some might argue that NZD 25 is a small sum, which can easily be priced into the market - its impact may also be cushioned, to some extent, if the New Zealand dollar declines in value (as can be expected).

Cheers,

C.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:06 am

planemanofnz wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
I agree QR don't have many A380's so AKL seems a stretch, seasonal maybe where LHR/CDG get downguaged.

Notably:

- QR flies its A380s to some low-yielding destinations, like CAN (and not HKG or PVG), as well as BKK (and not SIN) - AKL is also a lower-yielding destination
- QR is diversifying at its busiest airports (like opening CWL near LHR, and UTP near BKK), which may reduce some need for A380s on traditional routes

In light of the above, it would not be far-fetched to envisage a scenario where QR uses its A380s to AKL, at least seasonally, and particularly if the 77Ls leave.

Cheers,

C.


In the case of BKK demand is huge, EK run 4-5 daily A380’s there as well as 2-3 to SIN where QR run what 3-4 daily smaller aircraft to SIN?

AKL is 18 hrs away, the A380 would be the only current other aircraft that can make AKL with what 150 plus seats blocked ex AKL I’m guessing? They are getting 778’s.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:23 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
In the case of BKK demand is huge, EK run 4-5 daily A380’s there as well as 2-3 to SIN where QR run what 3-4 daily smaller aircraft to SIN?

AKL is 18 hrs away, the A380 would be the only current other aircraft that can make AKL with what 150 plus seats blocked ex AKL I’m guessing? They are getting 778’s.

Yes, but as I noted, QR is opening UTP, which might free up some use of the A380s on DOH - BKK. In addition, BKK has been an extremely competitive market, and remains so - meanwhile, AKL just became a lot less competitive (with EK slashing 75% of its AKL capacity). QR might determine that, in light of this, AKL's yield potential is stronger than BKK's and/or CAN's, and that the cost of any blocked out seats (which will not be 150), can be priced into the market.

Cheers,

C.
 
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zkojq
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:12 pm

a7ala wrote:
None of those airports currently have border processing which would be expensive to add for a 2/week service.

A question; as far as staffing is concerned, would MPI operations staff be interchangeable between the Tauranga Cruise Terminal and airport duties? Same for Immigration staff. Surely the jobs (servicing cruise ship pax vs servicing airline pax) are nearly identical?

a7ala wrote:
Look at Newcastle in Australia as a similar case study. Catchment population of anywhere between 500,000 and 900,000 depending on where you draw the line, but try as they might no intl services due to big brother 2.5 hours down the road....

They're fairly well served with domestic jet services though.

PA515 wrote:
NBT is referring to the fact that Air NZ now own six of the thirteen regional A320CEOs. In the last Investor Day Presentation it was mentioned that some of these could be used to add capacity to the domestic fleet when the A320/A321NEOs arrive.

PA515

Does anyone know which specific aircraft are owned? I would be strongly in favour of this as there are many international A320CEOs that I haven't flown on yet and this might just be the opportunity I need to log a couple more. :x

VirginFlyer wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
no one wants to change terminals at bloody awful AKL,just like no one wants to at bloody awful SYD either.

Thankfully a domestic terminal physically connected to the international terminal is on the cards (hopefully in the next decade!):
https://corporate.aucklandairport.co.nz ... the-future

V/F

Typical New Zealand; infrastructure is ready 40 years after it was needed.

Gasman wrote:
- It added a layer of complexity and confusion for people flying from Europe or the US to Australia on a Y+ or J ticket - some people were unpleasantly surprised at what they received on the last leg of their trip

:checkmark: Nearly every TransTasman flight I've had with Air New Zealand in the last five years (or so) has had a North American in the row ahead/behind me finding out onboard that they don't have a meal included in this leg of their NA-AKL-AU (or reverse) journey.

planemanofnz wrote:
- Tourist tax
Labour will charge international visitors to New Zealand a NZD 25 tax, to go into an infrastructure and conservation fund - on top of the current NZD 22 fee. IMHO, the effect of this additional tax will be minimal - it can easily be priced into the existing cost of air tickets, without serving as a big disincentive for in-bound tourism. At the same time, revenue from this tax will actually fund tourism infrastructure projects, which may actually incentivise further interest in New Zealand, by tourists.

Might I point out that international travel was one of National's many stealth taxes.
International airfares will rise after the Government announced in Thursday's Budget that it will sting passengers with $22 in arrival and departure taxes.

A "border clearance levy" of $16 for arriving passengers and $6 for departing passengers will be introduced from the start of next year, although the exact amounts will be subject to public consultation.


http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industr ... arture-tax

Aside from aviation, National instituted many of these stealth taxes in many areas which most people seem to forget about fairly quickly.

planemanofnz wrote:
Finally, although unlikely to affect demand for air travel, Labour is promising to build a 20 km light rail line from Auckland's CBD to AKL, which is to be welcomed.

Yippee! Shame that it's been 40 years since this vital piece of infrastructure was was needed! Now let's just hope that public transport fares don't have a ridiculous airport charge like Sydney Airport's train stations do.
First to fly the 787-9
 
aerokiwi
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:22 pm

zkojq wrote:
Might I point out that international travel was one of National's many stealth taxes.
International airfares will rise after the Government announced in Thursday's Budget that it will sting passengers with $22 in arrival and departure taxes.

A "border clearance levy" of $16 for arriving passengers and $6 for departing passengers will be introduced from the start of next year, although the exact amounts will be subject to public consultation.



zkojq wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
Finally, although unlikely to affect demand for air travel, Labour is promising to build a 20 km light rail line from Auckland's CBD to AKL, which is to be welcomed.

Yippee! Shame that it's been 40 years since this vital piece of infrastructure was was needed! Now let's just hope that public transport fares don't have a ridiculous airport charge like Sydney Airport's train stations do.


No need, "stealth" taxes already pointed out.

Without diverting too much into politics, the Nats rejigged the tax system to change incentives within the economy. So your income taxes were reduced and replaced with higher consumption taxes (e.g. GST). Pluses and minuses to both systems. To their credit, they actually told the public about these changes before an election, which is something at least.

But yes, a perfect example of creeping taxes. Another $25 when someone has paid $300 return for a family of four is really starting to add up. And I have zero doubt that it's simply a cash grab. There's big spending promises to keep.

And Sydney's airport train is actually pretty excellent. It's fast, frequent, comfortable, connected to the suburban network and suitable for airline passengers and commuters. I guess it is a little pricey at $16, but compared to Melbourne's $19 Skybus, it's kinda great. Throw in that you can (if you have the time) just catch the 400 bus from terminal to Mascot and transfer there, all for about $4, and boom, you're on your way.

The proposal for a tram for Auckland Airport - the slowest of all options with, and I guarantee this, very little seating and very little luggage space, combined with regular commuters even! - taking over 40 minutes from downtown to the airport, is absolutely the worst of all worlds option - expensive, slow, inflexible. Either make it a heavy rail connection or make it a bus with dedicated lanes. This half thought-out idea smacks of New Zealand laziness when it comes to critical infrastructure. But it sounds about right yeah? Seems like it should work, so let's just forget about a proper analysis and dive on in. Oh and tax travellers more for it. Great.
 
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zkojq
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:57 pm

aerokiwi wrote:
To their credit, they actually told the public about these changes before an election, which is something at least.

The Nats never told us about the border levy. Nor the Kiwisaver tax increase. Nor the increased ACC levies. And they said in 2008 that they wouldn't raise GST...

aerokiwi wrote:
And Sydney's airport train is actually pretty excellent. It's fast, frequent, comfortable, connected to the suburban network and suitable for airline passengers and commuters.

Oh the train itself and infrastructure is actually bloody brilliant, no argument there.

aerokiwi wrote:
I guess it is a little pricey at $16, but compared to Melbourne's $19 Skybus, it's kinda great.

$40 return to Circular Quay is pretty expensive, especially when you consider that the return journey from Mascot is $8


aerokiwi wrote:
Throw in that you can (if you have the time) just catch the 400 bus from terminal to Mascot and transfer there, all for about $4, and boom, you're on your way.

Ah, so I'm not the only one who's done that. :D

aerokiwi wrote:
The proposal for a tram for Auckland Airport - the slowest of all options with, and I guarantee this, very little seating and very little luggage space, combined with regular commuters even! - taking over 40 minutes from downtown to the airport, is absolutely the worst of all worlds option

It's better than the status quo (nothing).
First to fly the 787-9
 
USAOZ
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:06 pm

a tourist tax of $25 should not be collected by airlines, but rather at the airports. Why ? Emirates have just pulled out of all AKL/OZ flights.

$25 MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE !!!!

Others may follow.

Many airlines make no money on tasman. China Airlines has been advertising stupidly low fares BNE/AKL/BNE & still they can't fill aircraft.

The last thing NZL tourism needs is less capacity.

+ look at fares into ZQN. It's often far cheaper to fly BNE/LAX/BNE than BNE/ZQN/BNE.

Regarding NTL. Freedom flew NTL/AKL until around 2002, 2003 think it was. When Freedom pulled out(or was it when they closed down) an operator in OZ, was going to fly NTL/AKL using a foreign carrier, but they strangely got absolutely no support from NTL locals. They were even going to put on coaches from certain parts of SYD to ensure flights were full. How do I know this ? I worked for the very switched on, cashed up operator at the time & made many visits to NTL travel agents/airport etc. looking for support.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:54 pm

One other point potentially worth considering on here post-election, is the effect of any re-location of the Ports of Auckland to Whangarei.

- Will this generate any increase in demand for air travel to and from WRE, or is AKL too close on the highway?
- Could this boost demand for air travel to and from TRG, with Tauranga Port set to increase its lead in any relocation?

Cheers,

C.
 
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shengzhurou
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:27 am

what's the status of possible sending 787 to SFO starting november ?
Sheng Zhu Rou
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:49 am

shengzhurou wrote:
what's the status of possible sending 787 to SFO starting november ?

who NZ or UA? UA has consolidated two 789s into 1 77W, NZ is still 777s.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
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mariner
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:53 am

planemanofnz wrote:
Will this generate any increase in demand for air travel to and from WRE, or is AKL too close on the highway?
- Could this boost demand for air travel to and from TRG, with Tauranga Port set to increase its lead in any relocation?.


Pretty good numbers fly WRE-AKL now. A fair few of them are connecting to/from other NZ, especially WLG, but a lot just fly to AKL. Once they fix the Brynderwyn Hills section of SH1 that'll change, maybe more will drive, but it may not be not many. It's still an odd drive - not quite close enough to Auckland and at the same time not quite far enough away.

I imagine air traffic would grow IF the Northport move happens, but I didn't think Labour was in favour of that. Although it probably doesn't matter what Labour thinks now, Winston usually gets his way.

The original development of Marsden Point was boom time for Whangarei and I assume much the same would happen again, especially coupled with the opening of the Hundertwasser Art Gallery, which may or may not be a fine gallery but will likely be a big tourist draw. Even the haters will go and see it just to prove to themselves they were right.

http://www.yeswhangarei.co.nz/hundertwasser-hq/

Changing the subject, there's a teensy-teensy update on the Sounds Beechcraft issue. The Sounds board have approved researching the deal. Not that there was ever much doubt about it.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... t-purchase

"NZ's Sounds Air makes progress on Beechcraft purchase"

Maybe Sounds would pick up another route that NZ dropped - WLG-AKL. LOL.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
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shengzhurou
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:36 am

aerorobnz wrote:
shengzhurou wrote:
what's the status of possible sending 787 to SFO starting november ?

who NZ or UA? UA has consolidated two 789s into 1 77W, NZ is still 777s.


air NZ with the 789, due 777 issues and rotations
Sheng Zhu Rou
 
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mariner
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:24 am

mariner wrote:
[Maybe Sounds would pick up another route that NZ dropped - WLG-AKL. LOL.


Which should, of course, read WLG-WRE.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:17 am

New Zealand's tourism sector appears to still be growing strongly:

- Annual international visitor arrivals hit 3.68 million for the September 2017 year, up 9 per cent.
- In the month of September 2017, New Zealand hosted 252,700 visitors, up 7,700 on the same period last year.
- The biggest growth markets for in-bound tourism to New Zealand were Australia, China and Korea.

Leaving aside the effect of any potential re-negotiation of the Korea FTA by Jacinda Ardern, the growth of in-bound tourism from Korea (a market which is home to a significant Star Alliance base, through OZ), should be of interest to NZ's strategy team, IMHO.

See: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/980856 ... es-to-grow.

Separately, in a forecast released yesterday, the New Zealand economy is now expected to grow at an annual rate of 3.4 per cent next year, and in 2019.

This will be good news for NZ (assuming the forecast comes true).

See: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indust ... -forecasts.

Cheers,

C.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:35 am

shengzhurou wrote:
aerorobnz wrote:
shengzhurou wrote:
what's the status of possible sending 787 to SFO starting november ?

who NZ or UA? UA has consolidated two 789s into 1 77W, NZ is still 777s.


air NZ with the 789, due 777 issues and rotations



Certainly nothing in the online schedules I just clicked through each week in November and it’s 77W’s and 77E’s 5-6 weekly. There is certainly 777 maintenance through November though but NZ would usually have updated long haul schedules more than 2-3 weeks out.
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:23 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
shengzhurou wrote:
aerorobnz wrote:
who NZ or UA? UA has consolidated two 789s into 1 77W, NZ is still 777s.


air NZ with the 789, due 777 issues and rotations



Certainly nothing in the online schedules I just clicked through each week in November and it’s 77W’s and 77E’s 5-6 weekly. There is certainly 777 maintenance through November though but NZ would usually have updated long haul schedules more than 2-3 weeks out.


I don't understand this. Aren't the 789s spoken for with IAH and YVR or has YVR not been announced?
Plane mad!
 
DavidJ08
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:42 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
shengzhurou wrote:
air NZ with the 789, due 777 issues and rotations



Certainly nothing in the online schedules I just clicked through each week in November and it’s 77W’s and 77E’s 5-6 weekly. There is certainly 777 maintenance through November though but NZ would usually have updated long haul schedules more than 2-3 weeks out.


I thought NZ8 to SFO was a daily service? I've just clicked through a few months' worth of AKL-SFO, the "normal" going forward seems to be 6x weekly 77W (x1), and 1x weekly 77E (Mondays) which is seen in parts of December 2017 and all of January, March, April, May 2018. The last month or so (on FR24) has been daily with a mix of 77W and 77E.

November 2017 has NZ8 running 5x weekly (x24) with different mixes of 77W and 77E from week to week, the first week of December is 6x weekly (x2) with Monday 77E the rest 77W, then a week of daily all 77W, a "normal" week as above, and another week of all 77W.

NZ6, which is "normally" (again looking at 2018 schedules) daily 77W, also has a few gaps in November with some more days operated on 77E.

IAH is getting a few 77W flights in November (lining up with gaps in the LAX/SFO services) before going 789 from 8th December and daily until February.

YVR is still 77E as far as the schedule goes (to October 2018).

So the schedule definitely shows signs of 777 maintenance in November and it seems like NZ has simply reduced scheduled frequency and shifted things around, doesn't look like SFO is getting a 789 in November. Still no word on the 789 to YVR.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:16 pm

NZ321 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
shengzhurou wrote:

air NZ with the 789, due 777 issues and rotations



Certainly nothing in the online schedules I just clicked through each week in November and it’s 77W’s and 77E’s 5-6 weekly. There is certainly 777 maintenance through November though but NZ would usually have updated long haul schedules more than 2-3 weeks out.


I don't understand this. Aren't the 789s spoken for with IAH and YVR or has YVR not been announced?


We were talking about the month of November only, IAH gets 789’s from DEC8th so there is slack in the fleet and NOV is a slow month. YVR has not been announced for 789’s
 
Qantas59
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:19 pm

Is new 787-9 ZK-NZL fitted in new J27 W33 Y215 configuration? I can't find that seat map anywhere.
Cheers.
[photoid][photoid][/photoid][/photoid]/Users/jaytanguay/Desktop/Screen Shot 2016-10-27 at 9.30.09 AM.png
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:21 pm

Qantas59 wrote:
Is new 787-9 ZK-NZL fitted in new J27 W33 Y215 configuration? I can't find that seat map anywhere.
Cheers.

Here you go:

https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/seat-map-boeing-787-9-2

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:10 am

So this presumably means that some premium config 789s will do the Tasman?
Plane mad!
 
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LamboAston
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:44 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:


Certainly nothing in the online schedules I just clicked through each week in November and it’s 77W’s and 77E’s 5-6 weekly. There is certainly 777 maintenance through November though but NZ would usually have updated long haul schedules more than 2-3 weeks out.


I don't understand this. Aren't the 789s spoken for with IAH and YVR or has YVR not been announced?


We were talking about the month of November only, IAH gets 789’s from DEC8th so there is slack in the fleet and NOV is a slow month. YVR has not been announced for 789’s

When I was looking at dummy bookings for IAH before 789s started there were at least 6 dates with a 77W scheduled during Oct, Nov, and the start of Dec
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