GSP psgr
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:20 am

I'm surprised PHL-NRT hasn't happened yet either; seems like a very viable route now that the merger is complete. Moreso than PHX/CLT-NRT. Also surprised AA hasn't given HEL a go, at least seasonally. It would be nice to have more choice for Central/Eastern Europe than LHR.

As for AA at JFK/NYC, I think of it this way. They're aiming to come in a close third on NYC Origin traffic, whilst riding the strength of their commanding positions at LHR, MIA, DFW, WAS, PHX, LAX, BOS, and ORD to a giant win in destination traffic. Whereas the strength of Delta's NYC operation has to carry the rest of their network to a certain extent, at AA it is the other way around-the rest of the network carries their NYC operation.
 
hynithuchi
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:30 am

slowrambler wrote:
I do love how any AA at PHL thread immediately gets hijacked into one about JFK.

On topic: I'm not sure there's that much more Europe to do; I kind of like the idea of GVA though I think they'd struggle with the 763 product. I think PHL-NRT isn't so insane, either; if you don't have a direct flight to Asia already, it's really difficult to make a daytime departure from the east coast with a connection in Chicago or further west.

I can't see GVA producing enough O/D traffic, so unless there is a huge demand out of PHL for GVA, it's a no go ! The East coast is sufficiently covered from GVA and a flight to PHL would only poach onward connections from the existing EWR and IAD UA flights without generating much additional traffic, this all the more as AA plans to operate from ZRH to PHL again in S18. But then again, I would be happy to be proved wrong ! :D
 
VS11
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:37 am

PHL-NRT probably will not happen because there is a JAL flight out of Boston on a 789 and AA can certainly send pax there pretty quickly.

PHL can serve very well as a launch pad for many TATL markets on a 767 as AA will use its huge network across the country to fill the flights. Smart strategic move but fairly low-hanging fruit. Great news for those of us who love flying the 767!!! We'll be able to enjoy it for a little longer.
 
acentauri
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:37 am

VS11 wrote:
PHL-NRT probably will not happen because there is a JAL flight out of Boston on a 789 and AA can certainly send pax there pretty quickly.

PHL can serve very well as a launch pad for many TATL markets on a 767 as AA will use its huge network across the country to fill the flights. Smart strategic move but fairly low-hanging fruit. Great news for those of us who love flying the 767!!! We'll be able to enjoy it for a little longer.

BOS is not an AA/OW Hub, PHL is. If JAL started PHL, do you really believe that AA would send passengers to BOS?
 
VS11
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:44 am

acentauri wrote:
VS11 wrote:
PHL-NRT probably will not happen because there is a JAL flight out of Boston on a 789 and AA can certainly send pax there pretty quickly.

PHL can serve very well as a launch pad for many TATL markets on a 767 as AA will use its huge network across the country to fill the flights. Smart strategic move but fairly low-hanging fruit. Great news for those of us who love flying the 767!!! We'll be able to enjoy it for a little longer.

BOS is not an AA/OW Hub, PHL is. If JAL started PHL, do you really believe that AA would send passengers to BOS?


JAL is part of oneworld so AA starting PHL-NRT just does not seem likely to me. PHL was an AA hub when JAL started the BOS flight yet they chose BOS over PHL. So JAL starting PHL-NRT seems even less likely than AA starting it. However, anything is possible - if there is enough demand and yield.
 
VS11
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:23 am

VS11 wrote:
acentauri wrote:
VS11 wrote:
PHL-NRT probably will not happen because there is a JAL flight out of Boston on a 789 and AA can certainly send pax there pretty quickly.

PHL can serve very well as a launch pad for many TATL markets on a 767 as AA will use its huge network across the country to fill the flights. Smart strategic move but fairly low-hanging fruit. Great news for those of us who love flying the 767!!! We'll be able to enjoy it for a little longer.

BOS is not an AA/OW Hub, PHL is. If JAL started PHL, do you really believe that AA would send passengers to BOS?


JAL is part of oneworld so AA starting PHL-NRT just does not seem likely to me. PHL was an AA hub when JAL started the BOS flight yet they chose BOS over PHL. So JAL starting PHL-NRT seems even less likely than AA starting it. However, anything is possible - if there is enough demand and yield.


Correction: JAL flight to Boston started before the merger of US and AA. But I still don't see AA launching PHL-NRT in the near future despite PHL being an AA hub. What aircraft would they use? Is AA basing 777 or 787 anytime soon in PHL or are they going to deploy A330 or B767?
 
Flighty
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:38 am

It would be an 787 if there were profitable opportunities in Asia from the East Coast, which there are not.
 
grbauc
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:42 am

GSP psgr wrote:
I'm surprised PHL-NRT hasn't happened yet either; seems like a very viable route now that the merger is complete. Moreso than PHX/CLT-NRT. Also surprised AA hasn't given HEL a go, at least seasonally. It would be nice to have more choice for Central/Eastern Europe than LHR.

As for AA at JFK/NYC, I think of it this way. They're aiming to come in a close third on NYC Origin traffic, whilst riding the strength of their commanding positions at LHR, MIA, DFW, WAS, PHX, LAX, BOS, and ORD to a giant win in destination traffic. Whereas the strength of Delta's NYC operation has to carry the rest of their network to a certain extent, at AA it is the other way around-the rest of the network carries their NYC operation.



Well said. I think you nailed it.
 
commavia
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:46 pm

LeaderOne wrote:
I wasn't aware of that. Again...if they didn't work back then, why would they work now?


I don't know if the past history of USAirways in these PHL transatlantic markets necessarily accurately portends the future performance of hypothetical AA nonstops in these markets - good or bad. But I will say this - there's at least one reason why these markets might work now despite not working then: AA today is a dramatically larger airline than USAirways was a decade ago. Ten years ago, USAirways was, arguably, at a point of sale competitive disadvantage virtually everywhere in the U.S. outside the east coast, had a far smaller network, no antitrust immunized JV partners helping with point of sale in Europe, and offered an onboard product inferior to AA's longhaul aircraft today. Over the long run, I certainly think there is ever possibility (probability) that the combination of a far larger branded network, far larger (and more tightly-integrated) partner network and "better" aircraft will open up viable longhaul possibilities previously unsustainable by standalone USAirways.

GSP psgr wrote:
Also surprised AA hasn't given HEL a go, at least seasonally.


AA tried it seasonally from ORD - didn't seem like the right fit for an AA 767, although I'd say AA's flight was ultimately a success in that it proved the potential of the route and developed the market for the JV, which now operates ORD-HEL seasonally with Finnair's A330s. That said, I have a hard time imagining PHL-HEL - HEL isn't that big a market, its O&D to/from the U.S. is fairly concentrated, and what connections it does have are fairly well catered-to via the year-round daily JFK-HEL, plus the seasonal flights to AA hubs in ORD and MIA, and to SFO.

GSP psgr wrote:
As for AA at JFK/NYC, I think of it this way. They're aiming to come in a close third on NYC Origin traffic, whilst riding the strength of their commanding positions at LHR, MIA, DFW, WAS, PHX, LAX, BOS, and ORD to a giant win in destination traffic. Whereas the strength of Delta's NYC operation has to carry the rest of their network to a certain extent, at AA it is the other way around-the rest of the network carries their NYC operation.


:checkmark:

VS11 wrote:
PHL-NRT probably will not happen because there is a JAL flight out of Boston on a 789 and AA can certainly send pax there pretty quickly.


The viability of PHL-NRT has nothing to do with BOS.

VS11 wrote:
PHL can serve very well as a launch pad for many TATL markets on a 767 as AA will use its huge network across the country to fill the flights. Smart strategic move but fairly low-hanging fruit. Great news for those of us who love flying the 767!!! We'll be able to enjoy it for a little longer.


:checkmark:

PHL has huge potential - it's a great hub and can definitely support more seasonal transatlantic flying. It's unfortunate that AA's 767s don't have a better onboard product, but we'll see if that is really a competitive hindrance to AA next summer - AA will be putting that plane into multiple markets where it's up against competitors' aircraft with AVOD PTVs at every seat, etc. Personally, I suspect it will do fine - for better or worse, many of the people on these seasonal Europe flights are not regular, frequent, flyers, and so aren't likely to do much in the way of product comparison.

VS11 wrote:
JAL is part of oneworld so AA starting PHL-NRT just does not seem likely to me. PHL was an AA hub when JAL started the BOS flight yet they chose BOS over PHL. So JAL starting PHL-NRT seems even less likely than AA starting it. However, anything is possible - if there is enough demand and yield.


The rationale for PHL-NRT is simple - it links two huge oneworld hubs, and would open up a level of connectivity up and down the east coast, and particular into the northeast, that AA presently cannot match at any other Asia gateway. There's no question that, as the article alludes to, PHL would cater to many connections presently handled over ORD, DFW and to an extent JFK. But I, personally, think there is a definite case for it - and I still view it as a matter of when, not if.

The question of which airline would operate the flight is interesting. The ideal schedule would be the "typical" midday westbound departure and evening eastbound departure, and the ideal aircraft would clearly be a 787. Both airlines have 787s, although AA doesn't fly any in and out of PHL, and likely won't anytime soon. On the flip side, JAL could easily fly a 787 on that schedule and - similar to BOS - park the airplane at PHL overnight, although that's arguably suboptimal for utilization.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:19 pm

commavia wrote:
VS11 wrote:
JAL is part of oneworld so AA starting PHL-NRT just does not seem likely to me. PHL was an AA hub when JAL started the BOS flight yet they chose BOS over PHL. So JAL starting PHL-NRT seems even less likely than AA starting it. However, anything is possible - if there is enough demand and yield.


The rationale for PHL-NRT is simple - it links two huge oneworld hubs, and would open up a level of connectivity up and down the east coast, and particular into the northeast, that AA presently cannot match at any other Asia gateway. There's no question that, as the article alludes to, PHL would cater to many connections presently handled over ORD, DFW and to an extent JFK. But I, personally, think there is a definite case for it - and I still view it as a matter of when, not if.

The question of which airline would operate the flight is interesting. The ideal schedule would be the "typical" midday westbound departure and evening eastbound departure, and the ideal aircraft would clearly be a 787. Both airlines have 787s, although AA doesn't fly any in and out of PHL, and likely won't anytime soon. On the flip side, JAL could easily fly a 787 on that schedule and - similar to BOS - park the airplane at PHL overnight, although that's arguably suboptimal for utilization.


I think aircraft choice is a big part of the problem - maybe the whole problem - for PHL-NRT. The JL 788, while the right size, is almost certainly too premium (and poor utilization a la BOS would only exacerbate the issue), and while AA's 787s are probably closer to the right configuration there still are not a lot of 788s to go around at AA.
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washingtonflyer
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:38 pm

Could an A-330-200 make it from PHL to NRT? Certainly with winds, I'd think it could make it NRT to PHL.
 
VS11
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:57 pm

commavia wrote:

VS11 wrote:
JAL is part of oneworld so AA starting PHL-NRT just does not seem likely to me. PHL was an AA hub when JAL started the BOS flight yet they chose BOS over PHL. So JAL starting PHL-NRT seems even less likely than AA starting it. However, anything is possible - if there is enough demand and yield.


The rationale for PHL-NRT is simple - it links two huge oneworld hubs, and would open up a level of connectivity up and down the east coast, and particular into the northeast, that AA presently cannot match at any other Asia gateway. There's no question that, as the article alludes to, PHL would cater to many connections presently handled over ORD, DFW and to an extent JFK. But I, personally, think there is a definite case for it - and I still view it as a matter of when, not if.

The question of which airline would operate the flight is interesting. The ideal schedule would be the "typical" midday westbound departure and evening eastbound departure, and the ideal aircraft would clearly be a 787. Both airlines have 787s, although AA doesn't fly any in and out of PHL, and likely won't anytime soon. On the flip side, JAL could easily fly a 787 on that schedule and - similar to BOS - park the airplane at PHL overnight, although that's arguably suboptimal for utilization.


Frankly, I have no idea how big the market from the Northeast US to Tokyo is but in view of JAL flying to both BOS and JFK, I am inclined to think that AA might find it cheaper to send pax on either flight than to operate a flight of its own. However, if the market is really substantial then it might make sense for AA to deploy a 77W on the route from PHL.
 
Swadian
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:11 pm

VS11 wrote:
commavia wrote:

VS11 wrote:
JAL is part of oneworld so AA starting PHL-NRT just does not seem likely to me. PHL was an AA hub when JAL started the BOS flight yet they chose BOS over PHL. So JAL starting PHL-NRT seems even less likely than AA starting it. However, anything is possible - if there is enough demand and yield.


The rationale for PHL-NRT is simple - it links two huge oneworld hubs, and would open up a level of connectivity up and down the east coast, and particular into the northeast, that AA presently cannot match at any other Asia gateway. There's no question that, as the article alludes to, PHL would cater to many connections presently handled over ORD, DFW and to an extent JFK. But I, personally, think there is a definite case for it - and I still view it as a matter of when, not if.

The question of which airline would operate the flight is interesting. The ideal schedule would be the "typical" midday westbound departure and evening eastbound departure, and the ideal aircraft would clearly be a 787. Both airlines have 787s, although AA doesn't fly any in and out of PHL, and likely won't anytime soon. On the flip side, JAL could easily fly a 787 on that schedule and - similar to BOS - park the airplane at PHL overnight, although that's arguably suboptimal for utilization.


Frankly, I have no idea how big the market from the Northeast US to Tokyo is but in view of JAL flying to both BOS and JFK, I am inclined to think that AA might find it cheaper to send pax on either flight than to operate a flight of its own. However, if the market is really substantial then it might make sense for AA to deploy a 77W on the route from PHL.


Deploy a 77W? That a/c is far too big to start PHL-NRT with; an A332 or 77E would be better if AA can't get a 788 to PHL. The A332 might have just enough range to do it since AA's A332s are relatively new.

Would CLT-NRT ever happen?
John Wang, Founder and President of Inland Streamliner.
 
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OA412
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:56 pm

washingtonflyer wrote:
Could an A-330-200 make it from PHL to NRT? Certainly with winds, I'd think it could make it NRT to PHL.

It's longer than two of DL's longest A332 flights (SEA-HKG and DTW-PEK) by a little over 100 nm. The newest build A332s can certainly do it, but I'd say AAs should also be able to make it, perhaps with a slight penalty on the PHL-NRT leg.
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masseybrown
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:23 pm

In June I flew through PHL and spent 40 minutes sitting awaiting take off, which was longer than my 35 minute flight to DCA. PHL's traffic may have reached its runway capacity. It there a posibility of another runway? The geography seems to be against it.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:35 pm

They are (or they were) working on a third runway IIRC....Moving all the cargo facilities to the northside of the property and a third runway was to go in the place.
 
usairways85
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:42 pm

washingtonflyer wrote:
They are (or they were) working on a third runway IIRC....Moving all the cargo facilities to the northside of the property and a third runway was to go in the place.

That plan is on hold. PHL movements are down substantially and the airport is handling no where near the volume it did 10-15 years ago. I believe they are doing some taxi-way work to improve the flow, but that's it.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:52 pm

commavia wrote:
The rationale for PHL-NRT is simple - it links two huge oneworld hubs, and would open up a level of connectivity up and down the east coast, and particular into the northeast, that AA presently cannot match at any other Asia gateway.


What does xxx-PHL-NRT serve that xxx-ORD-NRT and xxx-DFW-NRT don't, among stations with real demand to Asia, I mean? I don't think there are too many people out of Bangor or Williamsport headed to Asia every day.

By the time you're talking double-connects there's so much competition thru other hubs (and not just AA with itself) that yields are trash.
Last edited by MIflyer12 on Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:53 pm

duplicate
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:00 pm

I would argue that it would certainly help locking up the PHL-NRT O/D crowd. Not everyone is a AA fan at PHL, but for those flying the route, it'd make them think twice about flying via DTW or MSP on DL or IAD/ORD on UA. AA has a major hub at PHL and a major OW partner hub at NRT, and for a not small number of cities in Asia (BKK, KUL, SIN, etc.), you must double connect when flying via AA. You also have to double connect when flying UA or DL, but having that connection opened up with a single connection on AA cannot be disregarded.

Lets also remember that PHL does have a large footprint and good rail access. If my options were to fly to DFW and then fly DFW to NRT or take the train to PHL and fly nonstop, I'd give the nonstop serious consideration.
 
commavia
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:03 pm

On a related note, from today's Inquirer:
http://www.philly.com/philly/business/transportation/american-airlines-names-first-woman-to-run-its-philly-airport-hub-20171003.html

The article is an interview with AA's new VP/GM in PHL, including discussion about the new B/C head house and A/B arrivals facility.

Two key quotes:

"American Airlines is committed to Philadelphia, and we’re committed very strongly for the transatlantic opportunity"

"I think American and Philly are in a good place. We only have a good future ahead of us. [AA's new routes and investment in facilities] is a clear sign that we intend to be serious here, and to stay serious here. We wouldn’t be making these kinds of investments if we were not here for the long haul."


Sounds like AA is serious about PHL - as a transatlantic gateway, and a cornerstone hub. No surprise - it's a great market in which to have a hub.

MIflyer12 wrote:
What does xxx-PHL-NRT serve that xxx-ORD-NRT and xxx-DFW-NRT don't, among stations with real demand to Asia, I mean? I don't think there are too many people out of Bangor or Williamsport headed to Asia every day.

By the time you're talking double-connects there's so much competition thru other hubs (and not just AA with itself) that yields are trash.


Airlines overfly hubs all the time when demand, either local or connecting, is sufficient. Personally, I think there is sufficient demand between PHL and Asia, and between beyond-PHL spoke markets and Asia, to support a daily nonstop 787 PHL-NRT on top of any connections already available over ORD, JFK, etc.

Time will tell.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:06 pm

OA412 wrote:
washingtonflyer wrote:
Could an A-330-200 make it from PHL to NRT? Certainly with winds, I'd think it could make it NRT to PHL.

It's longer than two of DL's longest A332 flights (SEA-HKG and DTW-PEK) by a little over 100 nm. The newest build A332s can certainly do it, but I'd say AAs should also be able to make it, perhaps with a slight penalty on the PHL-NRT leg.


Could you send an A-330-200 from ORD and send a 772 or 77W from PHL and then have the 77W come back to ORD and have the A-330-200 come back to PHL? Then have a domestic PHL-ORD (ie hub to hub) A-330 flight?
 
B752OS
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:26 pm

VS11 wrote:
VS11 wrote:
acentauri wrote:
BOS is not an AA/OW Hub, PHL is. If JAL started PHL, do you really believe that AA would send passengers to BOS?


JAL is part of oneworld so AA starting PHL-NRT just does not seem likely to me. PHL was an AA hub when JAL started the BOS flight yet they chose BOS over PHL. So JAL starting PHL-NRT seems even less likely than AA starting it. However, anything is possible - if there is enough demand and yield.


Correction: JAL flight to Boston started before the merger of US and AA. But I still don't see AA launching PHL-NRT in the near future despite PHL being an AA hub. What aircraft would they use? Is AA basing 777 or 787 anytime soon in PHL or are they going to deploy A330 or B767?


JAL started NRT-BOS in April of 2012 - almost a full year before AA and US announced their merger. JAL announced the route in June 2011.
 
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:38 pm

commavia wrote:
key quote: [i]"American Airlines is committed to Philadelphia, and we’re committed very strongly for the transatlantic opportunity"

Sounds a lot more real than the 'Crown Jewel' BS ;)
 
SATexan
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:20 pm

Despite what some people here claim, AA's network out of NYC (JFK+LGA) is very weak. You simply cannot claim that AA can focus on "O&D at JFK" unless you believe that all of the O&D at JFK is to a handful of cities in US, 3 partner hubs in Europe + CDG, MXP, EZE and Brazil. They have no flights to Middle East, Indian sub continent, Asia, Africa, only 5 year round destinations in Europe and a very weak domestic network out of JFK. Even at LGA, the connection potential is very limited and the destination portfolio is restricted to a handful places in Northeast and North central.

Good to see AA come out in full support and commitment to PHL. US Airways had a great domestic and transatlantic network out of PHL. AA discontinued most of the flights to Europe after the merger. Hopefully they will bring some of them back, add a flight or two to Asia and also strengthen the already strong (relative to AA in NYC) domestic network out of PHL.
Last edited by SATexan on Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
commavia
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:28 pm

SATexan wrote:
Despite what some people here claim, AA's network out of NYC (JFK+LGA) is very weak. You simply cannot claim that AA can focus on "O&D at JFK" UNLESS you believe that all of the O&D at JFK is to a handful of cities in US, 3 partner hubs in Europe + CDG, MXP, EZE and Brazil. They have no flights to Middle East, Indian sub continent, Asia, Africa, only 5 year round destinations in Europe and a very weak domestic network out of JFK. Even at LGA, the connection potential is very limited and the destination portfolio is restricted to a handful places in Northeast and North central.


I disagree strongly. Again, AA operates ~300 daily departures to nearly 70 nonstop destinations throughout the U.S. and internationally. I simply do not agree with the characterization of that level of coverage and capacity as "weak."

AA's NYC schedule, especially at LGA, is not optimized for connections - it's optimized first and foremost for O&D, and specifically for O&D focused on a relatively smaller number of high-volume business markets. AA will never rival the network breadth or depth offered by Delta or United out of NYC - no way around it. But AA clearly feels that it can still offer a comprehensive, competitive offering for a subset of O&D passengers.
 
Themotionman
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:44 pm

GSP psgr wrote:
I'm surprised PHL-NRT hasn't happened yet either; seems like a very viable route now that the merger is complete. Moreso than PHX/CLT-NRT. Also surprised AA hasn't given HEL a go, at least seasonally. It would be nice to have more choice for Central/Eastern Europe than LHR.

As for AA at JFK/NYC, I think of it this way. They're aiming to come in a close third on NYC Origin traffic, whilst riding the strength of their commanding positions at LHR, MIA, DFW, WAS, PHX, LAX, BOS, and ORD to a giant win in destination traffic. Whereas the strength of Delta's NYC operation has to carry the rest of their network to a certain extent, at AA it is the other way around-the rest of the network carries their NYC operation.


So true. American has a major presence in NYC even just with service to their strong markets.
 
NichCage
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:08 pm

Is it true that US Airways served PHL-BHX in the past?

Otherwise, JFK has gotten cuts from AA over the years and sadly some international flights (MAN and ZRH) are being cut. AA even served a big amount of Caribbean destinations but they got cut. JFK seems to be more focused on domestic now with only larger, trunk international routes being served.

PHL overall is still an important hub for AA, and seems to be getting a lot more of the focus. Some Europe flights were cut and made seasonal, but overall the hub is strong.

CLT also got some cuts as well too. I believe MAN, BRU, and LIS, GRU, and GIG all got cut.
 
ckfred
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:11 pm

It seems to me that the four AA hubs that are best suited for connections to Europe are, in no particular order, MIA, PHL, ORD, and DFW. MIA can cover connections from Florida and the Southeast, PHL covers connections from the Mid-Atlantic, Northeast, and along the Alleghenies. ORD covers the Great Lakes and northern Great Plains, and to some extent the northern tier of states beyond the Great Plains. DFW covers Texas, the Southwest, and the southern Great Plains.

While each hub would offer service to LHR and MAD, you would look at the potential amount of traffic to cities in Europe and decide which hub or hubs would be best suited for service.
 
by738
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:11 pm

EDI -PHL wasnt that long ago and was scrapped. Whats changed?
 
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lapper
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:25 pm

AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel" and tosses it a bunch of old 767's...
 
lowfareair
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:29 pm

ckfred wrote:
It seems to me that the four AA hubs that are best suited for connections to Europe are, in no particular order, MIA, PHL, ORD, and DFW. MIA can cover connections from Florida and the Southeast, PHL covers connections from the Mid-Atlantic, Northeast, and along the Alleghenies...


MIA could make a claim for a good Central America-Europe connecting point, but it usually adds hundreds of miles of travel from most of Florida and all of the SE compared to PHL or CLT. An example to CDG (relatively central in Western Europe) via MIA or PHL:

MCO: 190 miles more via MIA
SAV: 670 miles more
MSY: 450 miles more

MIA is simply not an optimal connection airport from the US-Europe.
 
lowfareair
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:35 pm

lapper wrote:
AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel" and tosses it a bunch of old 767's...


4 of the 5 European cities getting 767s from PHL can't even support an AA flight to any of their other hubs. I'd say a 767 is appropriate.
 
hibtastic
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:43 pm

I know PHL are targeting a route to EDI. The route didn't do too badly when operated by US a few years ago, they just felt that switching it to JFK would work better given that they operated PHL front GLA. If the PHL hub is being built up then an EDI route could work again.
 
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Irehdna
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:52 pm

washingtonflyer wrote:
OA412 wrote:
washingtonflyer wrote:
Could an A-330-200 make it from PHL to NRT? Certainly with winds, I'd think it could make it NRT to PHL.

It's longer than two of DL's longest A332 flights (SEA-HKG and DTW-PEK) by a little over 100 nm. The newest build A332s can certainly do it, but I'd say AAs should also be able to make it, perhaps with a slight penalty on the PHL-NRT leg.


I think PHL-NRT has potential to work well too, perhaps with B788. The only issue I see with this (and it may be minor) is that a routing via PHL for most of the Mid-Atlantic/SE is longer via PHL than ORD.

Ex:
MIA-PHL-NRT is longer than MIA-ORD-NRT by 330 mi
CLT-PHL-NRT is longer than CLT-ORD-NRT by 380 mi
(Fun fact: CLT-NRT nonstop would nearly overfly ORD, and is only 1 mi longer than CLT-ORD-NRT)

Much of this has to due with the fact that planes to NRT from PHL would fly northwest, and such a PHL connection would benefit people to the SE of PHL the most. However, SE of PHL is 50 miles of NJ, then the Atlantic Ocean. If you were to draw a line directly south of PHL, you would hit the A. Ocean around Ocean City, MD. PHL would only be better for secondary cities in Northeast USA, who may want to avoid going to JFK.

Additionally, ORD has more O/D demand, so even with the lack of competition at PHL, there may not be that much of a desire to add travel time/cost via PHL vs ORD.
Last edited by Irehdna on Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
kavok
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:53 pm

PHL makes sense to me as a great hub for TATL routes, not so much for TPAC though. Basically, for a TPAC route to work, it would have to rely almost entirely on O-D on the PHL side. And maybe there is enough O-D at PHL for a TPAC flight with onward connections for NRT as PHL is a large market... BUT there are very few markets where it would make sense to fly XXX-PHL-NRT. Hence the O-D would need to be there from PHL.
 
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:03 pm

PHL is absolutely great long-term for AA if one looks at that as a connecting hub for transatlantic service. JFK can focus largely on international O&D (and what is beyond the perimeter limit for LGA) with LGA handling domestic O&D (within perimeter). As for service to NRT or HND---it has to be on a 787-8 or nothing.
 
Breathe
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:05 pm

hibtastic wrote:
I know PHL are targeting a route to EDI. The route didn't do too badly when operated by US a few years ago, they just felt that switching it to JFK would work better given that they operated PHL front GLA. If the PHL hub is being built up then an EDI route could work again.

I wonder if AA could sustain GLA as well as EDI or maybe they will just switch JFK to PHL?
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:48 pm

I guess the other consideration on PHL-NRT is that you'd most likely need to dedicate two wide bodies on this route. Its 14 hours from the east coast to NRT. So unless AA plans to immediately pull two A330s or two 788s from their line, its going to be a tough call for scheduling. I cant imagine that there are two extra A-330-200s with RR Trents in storage or trade around here..
 
EddieDude
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:27 pm

Back in 2003, US had plans to launch PHL-MEX with A319s. Sadly the route never came to fruition. At the moment, no airline flies PHL-MEX nonstop; could AA maybe launch PHL-MEX? Even if O&D is not very strong (if it were, somebody would be flying this route already), I am sure AA could make it work with connections. Any thoughts?
Upcoming flights:
May: AM MEX-CUN 73H (Y), AM CUN-MEX 73W (Y).
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lowfareair
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:13 am

washingtonflyer wrote:
I guess the other consideration on PHL-NRT is that you'd most likely need to dedicate two wide bodies on this route. Its 14 hours from the east coast to NRT. So unless AA plans to immediately pull two A330s or two 788s from their line, its going to be a tough call for scheduling. I cant imagine that there are two extra A-330-200s with RR Trents in storage or trade around here..


While I highly doubt this type of scheduling would happen and I feel PHL-NRT would be run with a 787 over A332 regardless (even PHL with its relatively low demand for premium cabins could probably support more than 20J on a 14 hour flight to a major business destination/gateway), how about the rotation below with 3 aircraft:

PHL-DUB 7p-6:30a +1
DUB-PHL 8:30a-11:25a
PHL-NRT 1:30p-5:30p +1
NRT-PHL 7:30p-6:05p
PHL-MAN 8:30p-8:10a +1
MAN-PHL 10:05a-1:10p

6 hour rest in PHL, then repeat.
 
DaufuskieGuy
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:48 am

I'm sure AA keeps close tabs on PHL XXX NRT and there are not enough bodies and fare mixture to prioritize it right now, i do think you could get xfer pax from dc va nc sc and sav for it but that would compete with existing dfw ord connections
 
Philly65
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:55 am

PHL-NRT will happen in due time as will CLT-NRT. Question is who will serve it JL or AA? I think PHL will happen once 27L/9R is extended over 11k feet. And on that note you will probably see more long haul from PHL.

Re the delays, PHL airspace is still under NYC control....a mere 90 miles away. A 3rd runway is on hold but if AA is serious about rebuilding PHL for the future, that 3rd runway will get the green light sooner rather than later.
 
rbavfan
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:58 am

commavia wrote:
Pengaea wrote:
I can see AA adding NRT and GRU (when the Brazilian economy recovers... who knows how long that'll be, though).


I find PHL-GRU implausible anytime in the foreseeable future. PHL-NRT, however, I continue to find a blatantly obvious market opportunity for the AA/JAL JV, linking together the JV's primary Asia connecting hub with the JV's primary northeast U.S. connecting hub.

Pengaea wrote:
It doesn't look like AA is doing a Delta and throwing darts at a map (so no AGP, NCE, or OTP)


It's not "throwing darts." Delta is just more flexible and aggressive with trying out new transatlantic market opportunities since, not incidentally, it happens to be by far the largest transatlantic operator at what is by far the most important transatlantic gateway in the U.S.

Pengaea wrote:
You're probably right. Like I said, I'm pretty sure we went over this a month or two ago. AA metal at JFK will probably be reduced to LAX, SFO, SEA, SAN, LHR, EZE, GRU, GIG, and any other O/D markets I've missed... almost like UA at JFK before 9/11. Any other destinations will probably be served by JV/OW partners (if they haven't shifted already). C'est la vie.

tphuang wrote:
It's truly sad for aa flyers in NYC. There is not a chance I am going to transit through Phl if direct flight is available.


:roll:

AA operates right ~300 daily flights from NYC metro to over 60 nonstop destinations in the U.S. and internationally, and it's going to fold its tent and become United at JFK pre-9/11? Please. I still find this endless pessimism about AA in NYC hilarious. AA's own executives said it frankly last week - AA is never going to be #1 in NYC, but it doesn't need to be. It's the same with Southwest, and JetBlue for that matter.

LAXLHR wrote:
JFK is not toast. PHL works well for connecting traffic. AA can focus on O&D at JFK. American does not need to be the biggest, to be highly profitable at JFK - especially on the LHR route.


:checkmark: Precisely.

airzona11 wrote:
AA is in a great spot in the Northeast. They can skim the higher value O/D traffic at LGA and JFK, and get the higher volume dependent connecting traffic down the road at PHL. As others have mentioned, with JV, are there even any large destinations that they are missing from JFK? This is the dynamic the airlines have been working towards.


Yes and yes, and don't forget DCA and - frankly - even ORD and CLT. The combination of major hubs, gateways and O&D markets AA has covered in and out of the northeastern U.S. is quite impressive, and quite competitive.

OA412 wrote:
EDI and MXP are certainly possibilities. In fact, didn't US serve EDI in the past?

N383SW wrote:
I'm pretty sure US served MXP in the past from PHLas well. Of course, I'm human, and could be mistaken.


Yes, USAirways did fly both PHL-EDI and PHL-MXP in the past and, I agree, those two seem like two of the most obvious near-term opportunities. I could see JFK-EDI shifting to PHL and possibly even getting upgauged to a summer 767, and I could also perhaps see a 777 on PHL-MXP, especially if Alitalia collapses.

GSPSPOT wrote:
Is PHL not still the red-headed stepchild after the NYC airports in NE Corridor, regarding airspace priority, thus negatively impacting on-time connections? At least, that's how the pilot on a LUS flt I was on years ago, waiting & waiting to take off put it.


TTM July 2017 on-time arrivals/departures:

BWI - 83% / 80%
DCA - 80% / 82%
EWR - 69% / 72%
IAD - 83% / 83%
JFK - 73% / 75%
LGA - 71% / 76%
PHL - 79% / 81%

The way the data is reported in BTS is obviously imperfect, and in any event I'm certainly not claiming that PHL's on time performance - in the context of the broader U.S. which is almost universally better than the northeast - is stellar. But having said that - at least among northeast U.S. "hubs" - PHL is hardly the worst for on-time.

Austin787 wrote:
PHL benefits from serving a large metro area that is able to generate just enough local traffic to support a hub, but not too much O/D to encourage competition. Plus its position in the northeastern USA makes an ideal gateway for Europe flights.


:checkmark: This. PHL is a great hub.


I also doubt they would kill off JFK. But remember your 300 daily flights in NYC, most are at LGA not, JFK.
 
airzona11
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:03 am

rbavfan wrote:
commavia wrote:
Pengaea wrote:
I can see AA adding NRT and GRU (when the Brazilian economy recovers... who knows how long that'll be, though).


I find PHL-GRU implausible anytime in the foreseeable future. PHL-NRT, however, I continue to find a blatantly obvious market opportunity for the AA/JAL JV, linking together the JV's primary Asia connecting hub with the JV's primary northeast U.S. connecting hub.

Pengaea wrote:
It doesn't look like AA is doing a Delta and throwing darts at a map (so no AGP, NCE, or OTP)


It's not "throwing darts." Delta is just more flexible and aggressive with trying out new transatlantic market opportunities since, not incidentally, it happens to be by far the largest transatlantic operator at what is by far the most important transatlantic gateway in the U.S.

Pengaea wrote:
You're probably right. Like I said, I'm pretty sure we went over this a month or two ago. AA metal at JFK will probably be reduced to LAX, SFO, SEA, SAN, LHR, EZE, GRU, GIG, and any other O/D markets I've missed... almost like UA at JFK before 9/11. Any other destinations will probably be served by JV/OW partners (if they haven't shifted already). C'est la vie.

tphuang wrote:
It's truly sad for aa flyers in NYC. There is not a chance I am going to transit through Phl if direct flight is available.


:roll:

AA operates right ~300 daily flights from NYC metro to over 60 nonstop destinations in the U.S. and internationally, and it's going to fold its tent and become United at JFK pre-9/11? Please. I still find this endless pessimism about AA in NYC hilarious. AA's own executives said it frankly last week - AA is never going to be #1 in NYC, but it doesn't need to be. It's the same with Southwest, and JetBlue for that matter.

LAXLHR wrote:
JFK is not toast. PHL works well for connecting traffic. AA can focus on O&D at JFK. American does not need to be the biggest, to be highly profitable at JFK - especially on the LHR route.


:checkmark: Precisely.

airzona11 wrote:
AA is in a great spot in the Northeast. They can skim the higher value O/D traffic at LGA and JFK, and get the higher volume dependent connecting traffic down the road at PHL. As others have mentioned, with JV, are there even any large destinations that they are missing from JFK? This is the dynamic the airlines have been working towards.


Yes and yes, and don't forget DCA and - frankly - even ORD and CLT. The combination of major hubs, gateways and O&D markets AA has covered in and out of the northeastern U.S. is quite impressive, and quite competitive.

OA412 wrote:
EDI and MXP are certainly possibilities. In fact, didn't US serve EDI in the past?

N383SW wrote:
I'm pretty sure US served MXP in the past from PHLas well. Of course, I'm human, and could be mistaken.


Yes, USAirways did fly both PHL-EDI and PHL-MXP in the past and, I agree, those two seem like two of the most obvious near-term opportunities. I could see JFK-EDI shifting to PHL and possibly even getting upgauged to a summer 767, and I could also perhaps see a 777 on PHL-MXP, especially if Alitalia collapses.

GSPSPOT wrote:
Is PHL not still the red-headed stepchild after the NYC airports in NE Corridor, regarding airspace priority, thus negatively impacting on-time connections? At least, that's how the pilot on a LUS flt I was on years ago, waiting & waiting to take off put it.


TTM July 2017 on-time arrivals/departures:

BWI - 83% / 80%
DCA - 80% / 82%
EWR - 69% / 72%
IAD - 83% / 83%
JFK - 73% / 75%
LGA - 71% / 76%
PHL - 79% / 81%

The way the data is reported in BTS is obviously imperfect, and in any event I'm certainly not claiming that PHL's on time performance - in the context of the broader U.S. which is almost universally better than the northeast - is stellar. But having said that - at least among northeast U.S. "hubs" - PHL is hardly the worst for on-time.

Austin787 wrote:
PHL benefits from serving a large metro area that is able to generate just enough local traffic to support a hub, but not too much O/D to encourage competition. Plus its position in the northeastern USA makes an ideal gateway for Europe flights.


:checkmark: This. PHL is a great hub.


I also doubt they would kill off JFK. But remember your 300 daily flights in NYC, most are at LGA not, JFK.


Long haul and premium O/D they can serve from JFK. Short haul from LGA. Agree that JFK is not going anywhere, can just be optimized for most profitable setup. Look at the most premium transcon market, NYC-SF/LA, AA has the least amount of total seats and only true 3-class service. They have for years been pivoting to going after the yield vs the volume market transcon from JFK.
 
cha747
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:29 am

slowrambler wrote:
I do love how any AA at PHL thread immediately gets hijacked into one about JFK.


Agree - PHL has nothing to do with JFK and vice versa. Having lived in the area on and off for almost 20 years, yes there are SOME people that go out of their way to fly in/out of JFK or EWR for specific reasons (direct flight to India, super-crazy low price, difficult to connect through New York, etc), however, many of us that live near PHL prefer to fly out of PHL. It is certainly more user friendly than JFK/EWR, we don't have to deal with New Jersey Turnpike traffic, and with Uber parking is now a non-issue. I've said it before and I will say it again, I can be off of a plane and at my house (12 miles away) in less than 30 minutes. From time off of the plane to my house from EWR or JFK could be anywhere from at least 3 hours to over 5 hours. Which would you choose?
You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it - Pushing Tin
 
GSP psgr
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:33 am

Two quick points: There are four unserved hubs from NRT: PHL, MIA, PHX, and CLT. If one had to order them in priority, I'd guess: 1) MIA, 2) PHL, 3) CLT, 4) PHX.

Other point I'm guessing loads and yields must have been atrocious on the daylight PHL-LHR with a 752. It certainly didn't last very long, though it would be nice to have back. I'm dreading doing the G to high H/K hike at ORD in November to catch AA90; the PHL logistics left a bit more leeway in connection times.....
 
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PITingres
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:54 pm

If PHL is a crown jewel, I'd hate to see the lump of coal. Ugh. Maybe they have fixed some of the poisonous employee issues there? I swore I'd never set foot there again, but maybe it's better than say 10 years ago?
Fly, you fools! Fly!
 
cledaybuck
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:04 pm

Philly65 wrote:
PHL-NRT will happen in due time as will CLT-NRT. Question is who will serve it JL or AA? I think PHL will happen once 27L/9R is extended over 11k feet. And on that note you will probably see more long haul from PHL.

Re the delays, PHL airspace is still under NYC control....a mere 90 miles away. A 3rd runway is on hold but if AA is serious about rebuilding PHL for the future, that 3rd runway will get the green light sooner rather than later.
Consider me highly skeptical of CLT-NRT happening anytime soon.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
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AASAP777
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Re: AA calls PHL the "Crown Jewel"

Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:52 pm

After losing the war from JFK to NRT/HND, I guess with a bigger hub at PHL it would work better to Japan from the East Coast for AA.
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