Now more A380s than passenger 747s

kitplane01 · Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:35 pm

There are now more A380s flying thanpassenger 747s. This is a recent development.
See https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 80-442074/

FlyHappy · Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:52 pm

I'm only shocked that there are that many passenger B747's still flying, quite frankly. The numbers have been declining fast, and will only accelerate.

Despite the fact that the B747 is the preeminent, legendary, groundbreaking and most beautiful commercial aircraft of all time, its completely understandable as to why the A380 will displace all of the few remaining routes where VLA/4holers are suitable and desirable. Still, its makes me a little sad.

Cunard · Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:55 pm

With most of the major airlines of the world now flying the Airbus A380 who were previously long standing Boeing 747 operators I'm not really surprised but up until now I have never thought of it but sure the time has come for the 380 to surpass the passenger versions of the venerable Boeing 747, imagine thinking that only five years ago.

Perhaps you could change the title and add 'than' rather than 'the'.
Sorry to be picky though.

JetBuddy · Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:12 pm

I suppose congratulations are in order for Airbus on this milestone. Great achievement.

Good thing the Queen of the Skies will fly for decades more as freighters. Such a majestic looking airplane.

JannEejit · Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:34 pm

It's not so much A380 displacing 747, as 747 being wound down though. You may as well say there's more 737's or 777's than 747's. There's probably more Cessna 172's than everything else added together ! ;-)

33lspotter · Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:59 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
I suppose congratulations are in order for Airbus on this milestone. Great achievement.

I read this as being sarcastic since it is more due to 747s being retired rather than prolific A380 production. Maybe it was just the cynic in me.

Even so, I am not surprised – the only passenger carrier I still associate with having a distinctive 747 operation is BA. This coming from a 747 fan, I have really enjoyed my two experiences on the A380 — it is a remarkable machine.

JBusworth · Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:14 am

The downfall of the 747 is enievitable. This is hardly surprising news. The 747 numbers will keep going down with nearly half of Qantas's 747s going next year.

qf789 · Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:24 am

JBusworth wrote:
The downfall of the 747 is enievitable. This is hardly surprising news. The 747 numbers will keep going down with nearly half of Qantas's 747s going next year.

There is rumours on the Australian thread that QF will only retire 1 744 next year

klkla · Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:35 am

What was the highest number of 747's that operated at the same time? How many A380's are operating right now?

racercoup · Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:41 am

Cunard wrote:
With most of the major airlines of the world now flying the Airbus A380 who were previously long standing Boeing 747 operators I'm not really surprised but up until now I have never thought of it but sure the time has come for the 380 to surpass the passenger versions of the venerable Boeing 747, imagine thinking that only five years ago.

Most of the major airlines of the world? by what measure? of the top 10 airlines of the world by fleet size : the following (6) have operated 747's , American, Air Canada, Air China, China Southern, Delta & United - none of these airlines fly the A380.

The top ten airline by passenger/kilometers flown - American, Delta, United, Air France, Lufthansa, China South, AIr China flew 747'3 - (3) of this group fly the A380, Air France, Lufthansa & Emirates.

Aviation history will remember the 747 as a plane that changed the world - the A380 as a colossal corporate mistake. It wasted billons of dollars and will not have touched many people in the grand scheme of things.

jupiter2 · Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:42 am

[quote="Cunard"]With most of the major airlines of the world now flying the Airbus A380 who were previously long standing Boeing 747 operators I'm not really surprised but up until now I have never thought of it but sure the time has come for the 380 to surpass the passenger versions of the venerable Boeing 747, imagine thinking that only five years ago.

"Most" is just a little bit of an exaggeration don't you think ?

VirginFlyer · Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:56 am

jupiter2 wrote:
Cunard wrote:
With most of the major airlines of the world now flying the Airbus A380 who were previously long standing Boeing 747 operators I'm not really surprised but up until now I have never thought of it but sure the time has come for the 380 to surpass the passenger versions of the venerable Boeing 747, imagine thinking that only five years ago.

"Most" is just a little bit of an exaggeration don't you think ?

Not if you're talking about the number of A380 operators who have been 747 operators:

Air France - previous long-standing 747 operator
Asiana Airlines - current long-standing 747 operator
British Airways - current long-standing 747 operator
China Southern - not a long-standing 747 operator
Emirates - not a long-standing 747 operator
Etihad Airways - not a long-standing 747 operator
Korean Air - current long-standing 747 operator
Lufthansa - current long-standing 747 operator
Malaysia Airlines - previous long-standing 747 operator
Qantas - current long-standing 747 operator
Qatar Airways - not a long-standing 747 operator
Singapore Airlines - previous long-standing 747 operator
Thai Airways - current long-standing 747 operator

So of the current 13 operators, 9 have been long-standing 747 operators (and of those, 6 continue to operate the 747 while 3 do not).

Of course if we consider in terms of delivered aircraft, over half have gone to airlines which were not long-standing 747 operators (courtesy of the Emirates effect...)

V/F

FoxtrotSierra · Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:15 am

racercoup wrote:
Aviation history will remember the 747 as a plane that changed the world - the A380 as a colossal corporate mistake. It wasted billons of dollars and will not have touched many people in the grand scheme of things.

The 747 is definitely the more important of the two but the A380 is far from a failure. 14 operators for such a large aircraft is pretty respectable, and EK's commitment to the type is one of only two such examples in the industry, the other being the far smaller 77W. I enjoy flying the A380 as many did the 747 in its time so its a good airplane that serves its purpose. You want to talk about a failure? The 747-8 is the ugly duckling of the 747 family. The 744 may be more successful than the A380, but the A380 is more successful than the 748.

BlueWings · Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:22 am

When do you think the last passenger B747 will fly? I gotta try one soon. Never have!

CanadaFair · Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:23 am

EK and EY never operated pax versions, so why include them?

speedbird52 · Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:59 am

CanadaFair wrote:
EK and EY never operated pax versions, so why include them?

That was a list of all A380 operators, 747 or no 747.

jupiter2 · Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:20 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
jupiter2 wrote:
Cunard wrote:
With most of the major airlines of the world now flying the Airbus A380 who were previously long standing Boeing 747 operators I'm not really surprised but up until now I have never thought of it but sure the time has come for the 380 to surpass the passenger versions of the venerable Boeing 747, imagine thinking that only five years ago.

"Most" is just a little bit of an exaggeration don't you think ?

Not if you're talking about the number of A380 operators who have been 747 operators:

Air France - previous long-standing 747 operator
Asiana Airlines - current long-standing 747 operator
British Airways - current long-standing 747 operator
China Southern - not a long-standing 747 operator
Emirates - not a long-standing 747 operator
Etihad Airways - not a long-standing 747 operator
Korean Air - current long-standing 747 operator
Lufthansa - current long-standing 747 operator
Malaysia Airlines - previous long-standing 747 operator
Qantas - current long-standing 747 operator
Qatar Airways - not a long-standing 747 operator
Singapore Airlines - previous long-standing 747 operator
Thai Airways - current long-standing 747 operator

So of the current 13 operators, 9 have been long-standing 747 operators (and of those, 6 continue to operate the 747 while 3 do not).

Of course if we consider in terms of delivered aircraft, over half have gone to airlines which were not long-standing 747 operators (courtesy of the Emirates effect...)

V/F

Well if you are going to include a full list of 380 operators, how about including a full list of 747 operators ? Or at least what "major" airlines haven't operated the 380 but operate/operated the 747. I'll give you a few to start with, KL,AZ,IB,CX,JL,CA,BR,CI,AI,UA,DL,AC,GA,SV,PK,VS. Then there are those which haven't operated either.

lightsaber · Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:25 am

One late edit:
Every one does realize there are now more 747 freighters in operation than 747 passenger aircraft, right?
This is there are more passenger A380s than passenger 747s.

There are far more 747s than A380s.

Because there are more freighter 747s than A380s.

Just saying...

JannEejit wrote:
It's not so much A380 displacing 747, as 747 being wound down though. You may as well say there's more 737's or 777's than 747's. There's probably more Cessna 172's than everything else added together !

Yea... With production so low on the A380 and declining... This isn't a milestone so much as a Limbo contest.

While interesting, it is not happening the way I had hoped for. Its happened due to rapid 747 retirement, not the production of A380s.

Lightsaber

VirginFlyer · Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:07 am

jupiter2 wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
jupiter2 wrote:

"Most" is just a little bit of an exaggeration don't you think ?

Not if you're talking about the number of A380 operators who have been 747 operators:

Air France - previous long-standing 747 operator
Asiana Airlines - current long-standing 747 operator
British Airways - current long-standing 747 operator
China Southern - not a long-standing 747 operator
Emirates - not a long-standing 747 operator
Etihad Airways - not a long-standing 747 operator
Korean Air - current long-standing 747 operator
Lufthansa - current long-standing 747 operator
Malaysia Airlines - previous long-standing 747 operator
Qantas - current long-standing 747 operator
Qatar Airways - not a long-standing 747 operator
Singapore Airlines - previous long-standing 747 operator
Thai Airways - current long-standing 747 operator

So of the current 13 operators, 9 have been long-standing 747 operators (and of those, 6 continue to operate the 747 while 3 do not).

Of course if we consider in terms of delivered aircraft, over half have gone to airlines which were not long-standing 747 operators (courtesy of the Emirates effect...)

V/F

Well if you are going to include a full list of 380 operators, how about including a full list of 747 operators ? Or at least what "major" airlines haven't operated the 380 but operate/operated the 747. I'll give you a few to start with, KL,AZ,IB,CX,JL,CA,BR,CI,AI,UA,DL,AC,GA,SV,PK,VS. Then there are those which haven't operated either.

Because I understood the phrase we were referring to to mean "most A380 operators were previously long-standing 747 operators", although admittedly it is a bit clumsily worded so maybe we were reading it differently?

Cunard wrote:
With most of the major airlines of the world now flying the Airbus A380 who were previously long standing Boeing 747 operators I'm not really surprised but up until now I have never thought of it but sure the time has come for the 380 to surpass the passenger versions of the venerable Boeing 747, imagine thinking that only five years ago.

V/F

DarkSnowyNight · Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:36 am

FlyHappy wrote:
Despite the fact that the B747 is the preeminent, legendary, groundbreaking and most beautiful commercial aircraft of all time...

You spelled "777" wrong...

BlueWings wrote:
When do you think the last passenger B747 will fly? I gotta try one soon. Never have!

You probably have about ten to twelve years to get one, thanks to the 8i. Longer if you make Presidenting the Us a part of your future.

PacificBeach · Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:42 am

Based on the last few years' airline census trend, I think A320 should have also passed the 737 sometime this year.

jupiter2 · Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:52 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
jupiter2 wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
Not if you're talking about the number of A380 operators who have been 747 operators:

Air France - previous long-standing 747 operator
Asiana Airlines - current long-standing 747 operator
British Airways - current long-standing 747 operator
China Southern - not a long-standing 747 operator
Emirates - not a long-standing 747 operator
Etihad Airways - not a long-standing 747 operator
Korean Air - current long-standing 747 operator
Lufthansa - current long-standing 747 operator
Malaysia Airlines - previous long-standing 747 operator
Qantas - current long-standing 747 operator
Qatar Airways - not a long-standing 747 operator
Singapore Airlines - previous long-standing 747 operator
Thai Airways - current long-standing 747 operator

So of the current 13 operators, 9 have been long-standing 747 operators (and of those, 6 continue to operate the 747 while 3 do not).

Of course if we consider in terms of delivered aircraft, over half have gone to airlines which were not long-standing 747 operators (courtesy of the Emirates effect...)

V/F

Well if you are going to include a full list of 380 operators, how about including a full list of 747 operators ? Or at least what "major" airlines haven't operated the 380 but operate/operated the 747. I'll give you a few to start with, KL,AZ,IB,CX,JL,CA,BR,CI,AI,UA,DL,AC,GA,SV,PK,VS. Then there are those which haven't operated either.

Because I understood the phrase we were referring to to mean "most A380 operators were previously long-standing 747 operators", although admittedly it is a bit clumsily worded so maybe we were reading it differently?

Cunard wrote:
With most of the major airlines of the world now flying the Airbus A380 who were previously long standing Boeing 747 operators I'm not really surprised but up until now I have never thought of it but sure the time has come for the 380 to surpass the passenger versions of the venerable Boeing 747, imagine thinking that only five years ago.

V/F

Perhaps you're right it isn't really clear at all is it :scratchchin:

Hope you didn't take offence to my reply, none was intended. However your list does highlight how skinny the 380 customer base is, especially when you consider how many airlines have operated 747s over the years. I would hope we'll see the 380 in other airlines colours, but I'm not really confident there will be many unfortunately.

ThrottleHold · Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:45 am

racercoup wrote:

Most of the major airlines of the world? by what measure? of the top 10 airlines of the world by fleet size : the following (6) have operated 747's , American, Air Canada, Air China, China Southern, Delta & United - none of these airlines fly the A380..
.

rigo · Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:02 am

FlyHappy wrote:
I'm only shocked that there are that many passenger B747's still flying, quite frankly. The numbers have been declining fast, and will only accelerate.

Despite the fact that the B747 is the preeminent, legendary, groundbreaking and most beautiful commercial aircraft of all time, its completely understandable as to why the A380 will displace all of the few remaining routes where VLA/4holers are suitable and desirable. Still, its makes me a little sad.

I love the 747 but the most beautiful commercial aircraft of all time is the Concorde

Strato2 · Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:07 am

Good riddance. The Hunchback of Seattle had it's best before date expire a decade ago so finally some progress for civil aviation.

Bostrom · Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:15 am

BlueWings wrote:
When do you think the last passenger B747 will fly? I gotta try one soon. Never have!

The 747-8 will be around for a while, so Lufthansa or Korean will probably be good airlines to fly the 747 with. And BA doesn't seem to be in a hurry to retire their 747s.

concordeforever · Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:03 am

I think BA are keeping some of theirs until 2023 at least.

B747forever · Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:08 am

To date I have close to 50 segments on the 747-400, yet I cant get enough of the type. To be honest, the main reason I keep on flying with BA on my 6-8 trips per year between LAX-ARN is to get on the 744. Over the next 3 months I have another 4 BA 744 flights coming up. The 747 has a special place in my heart that the A380 or any other airplane will never be able to replace. Threads like these remember me of how little time there is left to enjoy the Queen of the skies

flee · Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:08 am

Is A380 fleet overtaking 747 a hollow victory?

See: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... to-442160/

richierich · Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:59 pm

flee wrote:
Is A380 fleet overtaking 747 a hollow victory?

See: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... to-442160/

Considering the A380s are, generally, a decade or more younger than the B744s, I would say no. (I realize the B748s are newer, but that's a niche model at best.)

Slug71 · Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:02 pm

Since I am not a subscriber, I can only read a small bit of the article. But at no point did it seem like the article was attributing the fact to the A380's success. Quite the opposite. Seems like it was merely just pointing out the fact. People here get so butthurt over any indication of the A380 having any success and immediately jump to the defense of the 747. Even when it seems the something may have been misread. Hopefully someday we can just read a thread about the A380 without it turning into a A380 vs 747 debate. The 747 is an iconic aircraft that will forever be in the history books. Nothing and no one can take that away from it. I love flying the 747. As I do the A380. But it is what it is.

n729pa · Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:58 pm

To be honest this is why I've bought a few tickets for next month to fly to over to Berlin for the day to fly to Frankfurt and back on a pair of Lufthansa 744s. Fantastic opportunity to try one (hopefully a few). Lufthansa probably we will the only airline to be able to say they've operated the 747 right from the start as a early launch customer until the end of passenger operations.

waly777 · Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:55 pm

flee wrote:
Is A380 fleet overtaking 747 a hollow victory?

See: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... to-442160/

Technically, it is as there are still more 747's flying than the A380...but they are mostly freighters. It's hardly something to trumpet when the icon is retiring and not the new guy being sold really well. Now, if the 380 had surpassed the A330 or B777 that would have been exceptional, but alas.......

douwd20 · Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:39 pm

All water under the bridge. The VLA segment is dying and the A380 will join the 747 in the graveyard soon.

zanl188 · Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:41 pm

JannEejit wrote:
It's not so much A380 displacing 747, as 747 being wound down though. You may as well say there's more 737's or 777's than 747's. There's probably more Cessna 172's than everything else added together !

I understand there are fewer total VLA's now then when the A380 was introduced into service.

Groover158 · Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:47 pm

flee wrote:
Is A380 fleet overtaking 747 a hollow victory?

See: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... to-442160/

It's pretty safe to answer no to this question. It is merely an interesting observation that was pretty much inevitable, and I don't see Airbus making a big deal about it, or claiming any kind of 'victory' here.

racercoup · Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:12 am

flee wrote:
Is A380 fleet overtaking 747 a hollow victory?

See: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... to-442160/

Man, give me a break - enough lipstick on this pig....

The A380 has had a negative order book for the last (4) years. The fact there may be more A380's flying than 747 passenger versions is not any kind of victory, it's showcasing the fact that a supposedly smart group of folks (Airbus) gambled Billions of dollars on a flying Edsel.

Think of this almost 50 years ago with out computers, or modern tooling etc. Boeing (without any government funding) built and delivered over 100 747's in less than 1 1/2 years. It took Airbus almost five years to deliver the first 100 frames.

aussieben · Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:50 am

I hardly think this is a victory for the A380.

Think about it: The 747 as an overall model was launched 51 years ago. It made it's first commercial flight nearly 48 years ago. It has had well over 1,500 orders over that time and will continue flying for some years yet. As far as an overall production run goes, this is pretty impressive.

The A380 was launched 17 years ago and made it's first commercial flight 10 years ago. It has secured just over 300 orders. The order book for the A380 has stalled and doesn't look likely to recover. Unless Airbus takes a massive leap of faith and launches a new model that makes commercial sense to the majority of the world's carriers. I can't see that happening any time soon.

I've flown in both aircraft and even though the A380 is more quiet and more spacious, it is hardly what I consider to be a revolutionary step change from the 747. It can technically carry well over 500 passengers but most seating configurations are less than 500. Whereas the 747-400 has standard 3 class seating of just over 400 and most airlines will have seating in the mid to high 300 range.

As an example: KE has similar overall seat count when comparing their 747 to their A380. LH does have over 500 on their A380 and less than 400 on their 747.

So say if on average - the A380 carries approx 100 more pax than the 747 (this would be a guess on my part, but I imagine I'm still being fairly generous to the A380) that is hardly revolutionary when comparing the difference between the sizes of he 747 over it's 707 predecessor.

To illustrate this, the original 747-100 had typical seating for 366 whereas the 707 had one class seating for 194 (as per wikipedia). Less pax if it was 2 class. However even on those numbers the 707 only had 53% of the pax that a 747 could carry. That made the 747 truly revolutionary.

Whereas if you compare an A380 to the 747-400 using typical seating configs on Wikipedia. The A380 has 544 typical seats, although the actual typical seating chart has 519. The 747-400 seats 416. This means the 747 has 76% - 80% of the capacity of an an A380. Most if not all airlines don't put that many seats in their A380s. So from that measurement the A380 is hardly the revolution over earlier generation aircraft.

I know seating capacity is only one measurement. I also can see how the A380 would be sought after by pax due to more space and a quieter cabin etc. However to call it a revolution in air transport is IMHO going a few steps too far. That's why the sales have stalled.

The 747 was a true game changer over previous generation aircraft. The A380 is bigger, but not a comparable game changer.

Slug71 · Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:55 pm

aussieben wrote:
I hardly think this is a victory for the A380.

Think about it: The 747 as an overall model was launched 51 years ago. It made it's first commercial flight nearly 48 years ago. It has had well over 1,500 orders over that time and will continue flying for some years yet. As far as an overall production run goes, this is pretty impressive.

The A380 was launched 17 years ago and made it's first commercial flight 10 years ago. It has secured just over 300 orders. The order book for the A380 has stalled and doesn't look likely to recover. Unless Airbus takes a massive leap of faith and launches a new model that makes commercial sense to the majority of the world's carriers. I can't see that happening any time soon.

I've flown in both aircraft and even though the A380 is more quiet and more spacious, it is hardly what I consider to be a revolutionary step change from the 747. It can technically carry well over 500 passengers but most seating configurations are less than 500. Whereas the 747-400 has standard 3 class seating of just over 400 and most airlines will have seating in the mid to high 300 range.

As an example: KE has similar overall seat count when comparing their 747 to their A380. LH does have over 500 on their A380 and less than 400 on their 747.

So say if on average - the A380 carries approx 100 more pax than the 747 (this would be a guess on my part, but I imagine I'm still being fairly generous to the A380) that is hardly revolutionary when comparing the difference between the sizes of he 747 over it's 707 predecessor.

To illustrate this, the original 747-100 had typical seating for 366 whereas the 707 had one class seating for 194 (as per wikipedia). Less pax if it was 2 class. However even on those numbers the 707 only had 53% of the pax that a 747 could carry. That made the 747 truly revolutionary.

Whereas if you compare an A380 to the 747-400 using typical seating configs on Wikipedia. The A380 has 544 typical seats, although the actual typical seating chart has 519. The 747-400 seats 416. This means the 747 has 76% - 80% of the capacity of an an A380. Most if not all airlines don't put that many seats in their A380s. So from that measurement the A380 is hardly the revolution over earlier generation aircraft.

I know seating capacity is only one measurement. I also can see how the A380 would be sought after by pax due to more space and a quieter cabin etc. However to call it a revolution in air transport is IMHO going a few steps too far. That's why the sales have stalled.

The 747 was a true game changer over previous generation aircraft. The A380 is bigger, but not a comparable game changer.

And it was not implied as a "victory". It was just pointing out the fact......

Slug71 · Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:56 pm

Groover158 wrote:
flee wrote:
Is A380 fleet overtaking 747 a hollow victory?

See: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... to-442160/

It's pretty safe to answer no to this question. It is merely an interesting observation that was pretty much inevitable, and I don't see Airbus making a big deal about it, or claiming any kind of 'victory' here.

Exactly. Not sure why this is so hard to understand.

aussieben · Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:57 pm

Slug71 wrote:
And it was not implied as a "victory". It was just pointing out the fact......

Agreed

However if it was just pointing out the fact, the same article should then be outlining how there are are more 737s or A320s in service than 727s. Or for that matter any other aircraft where there are more frames in service than a comparable, previous generation competitor. What's the point?

Heaven forbid we descend into an A vs B debate

For the record though, I actually wish that the A380 and/or 747-8 was more successful. I always thought that when it was launched, the A380 would sell faster once it entered service. A bit like in the early 70's when it seemed every major airline was ordering the 747, just to keep up with the competition. Even if some of them probably didn't need an aircraft that big.

To an extent that probably has happened with the A380, but just on a smaller scale. The next gen winners are the big twins, not the quads.

ADrum23 · Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:04 am

I think both the 747 and A380s days are numbered because airlines are realizing that it is not cost-effective to fly them on most routes.

Slug71 · Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:19 am

aussieben wrote:
For the record though, I actually wish that the A380 and/or 747-8 was more successful. I always thought that when it was launched, the A380 would sell faster once it entered service. A bit like in the early 70's when it seemed every major airline was ordering the 747, just to keep up with the competition. Even if some of them probably didn't need an aircraft that big.

To an extent that probably has happened with the A380, but just on a smaller scale. The next gen winners are the big twins, not the quads.

The A380 came in at the wrong time with the depression and high fuel prices. The fact that it is a shrink of the base model and therefore heavier than it needs to be doesn't help it either.
Especially competing against twins as you have said.

Agree with you about wishing the A380 and 747-8i was more successful though. I've always flown with a 747 transcon except two times. Once with a A380 and once with a 777. The 777 just wasn't the same.

Buffalomatt1027 · Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:26 am

ADrum23 wrote:
I think both the 747 and A380s days are numbered because airlines are realizing that it is not cost-effective to fly them on most routes.

I also think Boeing with the 787 read the market perfectly ...... they knew the technology was coming, that passengers want more direct flights, medium size airports could get International flights.

The hub and spoke model is what the 380 depended on and still obviously is happening. But the 787 is slowly changing that.

VirginFlyer · Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:55 am

Must we always have this pseudo-masturbatory "my aeroplane is better than yours" discussion on every thread which mentions an aircraft type?

V/F

Slug71 · Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:36 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
Must we always have this pseudo-masturbatory "my aeroplane is better than yours" discussion on every thread which mentions an aircraft type?

V/F

It sure is getting old.

SQ22 · Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:47 am

Please stay on topic otherwise thread will be locked.

smokeybandit · Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:48 am

Isn't this essentially saying more DVDs are being sold than CDs at a time when people are more into streaming anyway?

parapente · Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:33 am

The article says it all.A market of 740 (and declining) when launched to a max market of 400 today.Airbus bet on a premise that this trend would reverse itself due to airport congestion.They bet horribly wrong.
The market actually continued on the path is was already set on.The launch of A351 and B779 will only harden this trend in the medium term.

Bricktop · Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:50 am

parapente wrote:
The article says it all.A market of 740 (and declining) when launched to a max market of 400 today.Airbus bet on a premise that this trend would reverse itself due to airport congestion.They bet horribly wrong.
The market actually continued on the path is was already set on.The launch of A351 and B779 will only harden this trend in the medium term.

I think Airbus is right about airport congestion. Just not right enough. Aesthetically, the looks of the A388 fall short of the 747, but it is a PHENOMENAL engineering feat and as an aviation enthusiast, that's all I care about.

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