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KarelXWB
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UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:49 pm

Latest seat map shows that UA will add at least 23 seats to its 777-200 long-haul fleet.

United Airlines will add at least 23 seats to its long-haul Boeing 777-200s when it reconfigures the aircraft with its new Polaris business class seats.

The Chicago-based carrier will configure the aircraft with 50 lie-flat Polaris business seats and 242 economy seats, shows a seating diagram sent to flight attendants and provided to FlightGlobal by a source.


Seat map can be found in the article.

Article
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... fi-442165/
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AWACSooner
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:13 pm

Billions in profits from the ancillary fees and economy minus scam, and they still stick it to the customer...thank you shareholders.
 
kimimm19
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:16 pm

That would be because they seem to be going 10 abreast like their new 77Ws...
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:37 pm

kimimm19 wrote:
That would be because they seem to be going 10 abreast like their new 77Ws...


They are also getting rid of first class and reducing economy plus on the 3 class planes.
 
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exunited
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:58 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
Billions in profits from the ancillary fees and economy minus scam, and they still stick it to the customer...thank you shareholders.


Just wondering what you consider to be proper profit margin, maybe I can tell UA management so they can make you happy and not the people who own the company a.k.a. shareholders.? Does the gas station "stick it to the consumer" when they raise prices, Starbucks? Whole Foods? General Mills? is doing something to increase your profits "sticking it to the consumer" ? Just wondering.....
 
HeeseokKoo
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:08 pm

The seat map shows 52J.. oh wait, the very last window seats don't have aisle seat.

This polaris investment should pay well for UA. US3 772 configurations will be:
UA 50J242Y=292 with 3-4-3, 31"Y
AA 37J24W212Y=273 with 3-4-3, less than 31"Y (30 or 30.5)
DL 24J48W220Y=296 with 3-3-3, 31-32"Y, and Delta One Suites

DL may up-charge for the suites and generous Y seat size (if that's even possible), but UA wins for the number of J by far, and still carries nearly the most number of passengers.
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:23 pm

HeeseokKoo wrote:
The seat map shows 52J.. oh wait, the very last window seats don't have aisle seat.

This polaris investment should pay well for UA. US3 772 configurations will be:
UA 50J242Y=292 with 3-4-3, 31"Y
AA 37J24W212Y=273 with 3-4-3, less than 31"Y (30 or 30.5)
DL 24J48W220Y=296 with 3-3-3, 31-32"Y, and Delta One Suites

DL may up-charge for the suites and generous Y seat size (if that's even possible), but UA wins for the number of J by far, and still carries nearly the most number of passengers.


Thanks. Delta is the best here.
 
ordpark
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:30 pm

Why does this surprise or upset anyone? (AWACSooner) The name of the game is to make money....
 
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Keith2004
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:44 pm

The surprise would have been if they didn't go 3-4-3 in 777-200
It would be strange to gave 777-300 with 3-4-3 but not 777-200

Delta will soon be only US3 and one of few left worldwide with 3-3-3 on 777
 
jumbojet
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:47 pm

ordpark wrote:
Why does this surprise or upset anyone? (AWACSooner) The name of the game is to make money....


that's if your a share holder. The name of the game for the consumer is cheap airfare AND comfort which is why Delta wins. I wouldn't fly in the back of a UA widebody plane for free.
 
filipair
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:47 pm

United is pushing it with crappiness people will need to endure by choosing them in the future. In the recent past, I've had some of my best TATL flights on United, mostly thanks to some great crews. But this sardine can development, the paying customer beat down incident and the terrible customer service and facilities experience at O'Hare... yikes. If I can at all help it, my money is going to an airline that has a bit less contempt for its guests.
 
BENAir01
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:48 pm

I thought DL was going to add 3-4-3 when they add the Delta One Suites?
Why is flying so expensive? And why is flying well so much more?
 
den777200
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:02 pm

United needs to re-think their Economy Plus Product. Working in the travel industry we see more and more travelers heading over to the carriers that truly offer a Premium Economy Class Product.
 
b747400erf
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:14 pm

exunited wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
Billions in profits from the ancillary fees and economy minus scam, and they still stick it to the customer...thank you shareholders.


Just wondering what you consider to be proper profit margin, maybe I can tell UA management so they can make you happy and not the people who own the company a.k.a. shareholders.? Does the gas station "stick it to the consumer" when they raise prices, Starbucks? Whole Foods? General Mills? is doing something to increase your profits "sticking it to the consumer" ? Just wondering.....


The shareholders sit around as their investment makes money, and they do not own the company that is a misunderstanding of the concept.
 
b747400erf
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:15 pm

jumbojet wrote:
ordpark wrote:
Why does this surprise or upset anyone? (AWACSooner) The name of the game is to make money....


that's if your a share holder. The name of the game for the consumer is cheap airfare AND comfort which is why Delta wins. I wouldn't fly in the back of a UA widebody plane for free.

your share holder what?
 
brianz24
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:17 pm

exunited wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
Billions in profits from the ancillary fees and economy minus scam, and they still stick it to the customer...thank you shareholders.


Just wondering what you consider to be proper profit margin, maybe I can tell UA management so they can make you happy and not the people who own the company a.k.a. shareholders.? Does the gas station "stick it to the consumer" when they raise prices, Starbucks? Whole Foods? General Mills? is doing something to increase your profits "sticking it to the consumer" ? Just wondering.....


I don't think that's an apples to apples comparison at all. The operative phrase is "when they raise prices". If any of the companies you mentioned decreased the quality of their products to the point of compromising safety or customer satisfaction, they would take a hit on demand and their bottom line. Typically, if a company wants to make more profit (not necessarily revenue), they decrease supply and increase price.

One thing that I have never understood about the airline industry -- they seem to talk out of both sides of their mouth. Premium customers are where the profit is -- clearly that's where they are investing. Wouldn't it stand to reason that the most profitable course of action would be to decrease capacity (size of planes, frequencies) and increase price? Maintain a lower number of higher priced seats on an airplane? Using Whole Foods as a great example, they cater to higher margin customers who want a higher quality product. They don't attempt to compete with Costco and go after individuals looking for the lowest possible price. By jamming more and more seats on the plane, aren't they just weighing down the aircraft with less profitable seats? The more weight you put on the aircraft, the higher the operating costs.

Forgive me for sticking with the Whole Foods example, but if Whole Foods raised their prices beyond the elasticity of demand, their revenue would drop as customers would go elsewhere. Much more difficult to do as a consumer with the airline industry. Given the lack of choice we now have due to consolidation and the collusive behavior of the airlines (They match each other on seat counts, ancillary fees, etc.), those of us that travel on business simply don't have much choice.

As a business travel, I would much rather see them maintain or improve quality even if that means a price increase. As a frequent business traveler, we will pay what the going rate is. If the price goes up, we will continue to travel. While I understand this may not be true for the casual traveler / tourist, I thought those types of customers are not profitable for the airline. Why not let them go? The rationale of the business case to attempt to compete with LCCs eludes me. Given how profitable premium travelers are, I am quite surprised that we don't see an upscale airline (The Whole Foods of the air), catering to business travelers and premium travelers.

From a business travelers perspective, I strongly disagree with the assertion that traveling consumers "ask" for more seats on the airplane with their wallets. As they raise prices and fees, demand continues to go up.
 
United1
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:39 pm

den777200 wrote:
United needs to re-think their Economy Plus Product. Working in the travel industry we see more and more travelers heading over to the carriers that truly offer a Premium Economy Class Product.


....a decision on that is imminent.

The seat map itself is new but the decision to go 10 across in Y was announced quite a while ago and has been an open secret for even longer. UA is the launch customer for the B/E Aspire product which hopefully will at least feel a bit roomier than the current 10 across Pinnacle seats.

https://www.thestreet.com/story/1407140 ... craft.html
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Continental767
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:46 pm

HeeseokKoo wrote:
The seat map shows 52J.. oh wait, the very last window seats don't have aisle seat.

This polaris investment should pay well for UA. US3 772 configurations will be:
UA 50J242Y=292 with 3-4-3, 31"Y
AA 37J24W212Y=273 with 3-4-3, less than 31"Y (30 or 30.5)
DL 24J48W220Y=296 with 3-3-3, 31-32"Y, and Delta One Suites

DL may up-charge for the suites and generous Y seat size (if that's even possible), but UA wins for the number of J by far, and still carries nearly the most number of passengers.


AA Website says 31-32” of pitch. DL will be adding 28 Delta One suites on the 777s, not 24.

Also, I bet within five or so years DL will be adding 3-4-3 to their 777s. They have to know how much more money they could be making, and profits are always more important than the customer experience. :roll:
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readytotaxi
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:51 pm

Yep, the shareholder experience is far more important than the customer.
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B737900ER
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:57 pm

If you don’t like it go fly EK. AF maybe, or AC

Oh wait...
 
B737900ER
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:59 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Yep, the shareholder experience is far more important than the customer.

The customer is unwilling to pay for a better experience. This has been proven over and over again. Why get upset at a corporation for adapting to a changing environment. Instead be upset at the consumer who is the driver behind the changes.
 
HeeseokKoo
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:03 pm

Continental767 wrote:
HeeseokKoo wrote:
The seat map shows 52J.. oh wait, the very last window seats don't have aisle seat.

This polaris investment should pay well for UA. US3 772 configurations will be:
UA 50J242Y=292 with 3-4-3, 31"Y
AA 37J24W212Y=273 with 3-4-3, less than 31"Y (30 or 30.5)
DL 24J48W220Y=296 with 3-3-3, 31-32"Y, and Delta One Suites

DL may up-charge for the suites and generous Y seat size (if that's even possible), but UA wins for the number of J by far, and still carries nearly the most number of passengers.


AA Website says 31-32” of pitch. DL will be adding 28 Delta One suites on the 777s, not 24.

Also, I bet within five or so years DL will be adding 3-4-3 to their 777s. They have to know how much more money they could be making, and profits are always more important than the customer experience. :roll:


AA says 31-32 but that's before PY was added. With PY, in the last block, first several rows became MCE with a cost of reduced pitch behind. Same for 332 PY conversion - MCE added there, too, without reducing the number of seats. DL was typo (doesn't add up). 772 not being a backbone for DL, I'm not sure if DL will really go 3-4-3 in the future.
 
airzona11
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:09 pm

UA is going heavy premium vs the other carriers on the 777. Bummer to see the 3-4-3 but inevitable. Hopefully with PY they still keep a decent amount of Y+.
 
birdbrainz
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:55 pm

I rode on the UA 3-4-3 domestic 777's, and while it was cozy, it wasn't as different from the 3-3-3 as I expected. The public will tolerate it fine. It just going to really suck if you're stuck next to a really large person.

On a separate subject, To be honest, I don't really understand the issue with the UA 8-abreast pre-Polaris business class. I've flown ORD-HKG, and then Business First HKG-EWR, and both were fine. I slept amazingly well on the old UA J-class seat on the ORD-HKG flight and I personally like the seat better than LH's (relatively new) business class. Maybe I just ride in economy so much that ANYTHING else is fantastic.
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cschleic
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:55 pm

B737900ER wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
Yep, the shareholder experience is far more important than the customer.

The customer is unwilling to pay for a better experience. This has been proven over and over again. Why get upset at a corporation for adapting to a changing environment. Instead be upset at the consumer who is the driver behind the changes.


Unfortunately, this is true. However, the issue can be a large gap between options.

I'm perfectly willing to pay a bit more $ for a better experience and more room. Many times, though, the options aren't that great, or it's a choice between sardine class or 5x the price for biz class. A true premium economy would be fine for me, not the E+ or whatever it's called that simply offers three or four inches more legroom but still 3x4x3 on a 777.
 
ILNFlyer
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:59 pm

filipair wrote:
United is pushing it with crappiness people will need to endure by choosing them in the future. In the recent past, I've had some of my best TATL flights on United, mostly thanks to some great crews. But this sardine can development, the paying customer beat down incident and the terrible customer service and facilities experience at O'Hare... yikes. If I can at all help it, my money is going to an airline that has a bit less contempt for its guests.


Exactly why I avoid United like the plague.
 
mikeyp224
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:00 pm

HeeseokKoo wrote:
Continental767 wrote:
HeeseokKoo wrote:
The seat map shows 52J.. oh wait, the very last window seats don't have aisle seat.

This polaris investment should pay well for UA. US3 772 configurations will be:
UA 50J242Y=292 with 3-4-3, 31"Y
AA 37J24W212Y=273 with 3-4-3, less than 31"Y (30 or 30.5)
DL 24J48W220Y=296 with 3-3-3, 31-32"Y, and Delta One Suites

DL may up-charge for the suites and generous Y seat size (if that's even possible), but UA wins for the number of J by far, and still carries nearly the most number of passengers.


AA Website says 31-32” of pitch. DL will be adding 28 Delta One suites on the 777s, not 24.

Also, I bet within five or so years DL will be adding 3-4-3 to their 777s. They have to know how much more money they could be making, and profits are always more important than the customer experience. :roll:


AA says 31-32 but that's before PY was added. With PY, in the last block, first several rows became MCE with a cost of reduced pitch behind. Same for 332 PY conversion - MCE added there, too, without reducing the number of seats. DL was typo (doesn't add up). 772 not being a backbone for DL, I'm not sure if DL will really go 3-4-3 in the future.


I would be interested to know where you got your information from.

AA's internal seat maps show that when PE was added to the 772s the "last block" went from 32" to 31" pitch to accommodate for the added MCE section. On the 332 the pitch in the "last block" went from 32" to mainly 31" to accommodate the MCE section. Not the 30 or 30.5 you speak of.
 
HeeseokKoo
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:06 pm

mikeyp224 wrote:
I would be interested to know where you got your information from.

AA's internal seat maps show that when PE was added to the 772s the "last block" went from 32" to 31" pitch to accommodate for the added MCE section. On the 332 the pitch in the "last block" went from 32" to mainly 31" to accommodate the MCE section. Not the 30 or 30.5 you speak of.


Then I was wrong. Thought they were already 31" and going down from there. I appreciate for correcting me.
 
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DolphinAir747
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:09 pm

What is the timeline? Will they refit both the sCO 2-class and the sUA 3-class aircraft?
 
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exunited
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:33 pm

jumbojet wrote:
ordpark wrote:
Why does this surprise or upset anyone? (AWACSooner) The name of the game is to make money....


that's if your a share holder. The name of the game for the consumer is cheap airfare AND comfort which is why Delta wins. I wouldn't fly in the back of a UA widebody plane for free.


Wow, thanks for adding to the discussion

b747400erf wrote:
exunited wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
Billions in profits from the ancillary fees and economy minus scam, and they still stick it to the customer...thank you shareholders.


Just wondering what you consider to be proper profit margin, maybe I can tell UA management so they can make you happy and not the people who own the company a.k.a. shareholders.? Does the gas station "stick it to the consumer" when they raise prices, Starbucks? Whole Foods? General Mills? is doing something to increase your profits "sticking it to the consumer" ? Just wondering.....


The shareholders sit around as their investment makes money, and they do not own the company that is a misunderstanding of the concept.


I guess the years I spent in business school and my degree are worthless then, please enlighten us professor.
 
caverunner17
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:35 pm

birdbrainz wrote:

On a separate subject, To be honest, I don't really understand the issue with the UA 8-abreast pre-Polaris business class. I've flown ORD-HKG, and then Business First HKG-EWR, and both were fine. I slept amazingly well on the old UA J-class seat on the ORD-HKG flight and I personally like the seat better than LH's (relatively new) business class. Maybe I just ride in economy so much that ANYTHING else is fantastic.

It wasn't that horrible if you got the side section... but if you were in the center two seats, you had two strangers next to you with no easy out. Not to mention, the width of the seat wasn't much more than the Y seat. UA was the only (or one of few?) that used this configuration. Sure, if your option was another carrier without a lie-flat, it makes sense to fly UA, but a lot of competition had alternates.
 
Bald1983
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:47 pm

I do not like it but it is the way things are going. The new seats will be about the same size as the 3 3 3 787 cabin and I lived to tell about it.
 
VC10er
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:48 pm

50 Polaris seats on the 772! How many are there on the 77W? I have flown in the Polaris seat and think it's great, especially the forward facing seat with 3 or 4 windows. If they get J fares for those 50 seats they will make a lot of money on those 772s.

It does seem like the Polaris 767 is the way to go. I wonder what the 787-9 and 10 will be like? (is the article mistaken when they mention "United takes their first 10 787-9s in 2018"? Isn't that supposed to be the 787-10?)
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Bald1983
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:52 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Yep, the shareholder experience is far more important than the customer.


The economy customer has opted for the lowest fare. This allows for lower fares. So the customer is getting what the customer selected. The problem is people who want the rock bottom fares with all of the perks for free. As an example, Continental was the last of the legacy carriers to start first bag fees. It did so because people were opting for the lower fares on other carriers, even if the math on the fees meant they were paying more.
 
VetteDude
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:13 pm

jumbojet wrote:
ordpark wrote:
Why does this surprise or upset anyone? (AWACSooner) The name of the game is to make money....


that's if your a share holder. The name of the game for the consumer is cheap airfare AND comfort which is why Delta wins. I wouldn't fly in the back of a UA widebody plane for free.


Consumers have consistently voted that they prefer cheap above all else. If UA could make more money by charging more and having fewer seats, they absolutely would do it without second thought.
 
gsg013
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:15 pm

Interesting that UA is going with 50 seats in J. This is the same at the PMCO 777-200ER which currently have 50 in J. Obviously UA knows much about their market and that they can fill 50 J seats with mostly paying customers on most of their 777 routes.

On the other hand I wonder why DL I believe is going with just 24 J for their new suites product. I guess they can increase the prices for J to squeeze more yield but if demand is for much higher than 24 seats I could see DL losing some premium customers that cant get a seat.
 
VetteDude
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:16 pm

b747400erf wrote:
exunited wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
Billions in profits from the ancillary fees and economy minus scam, and they still stick it to the customer...thank you shareholders.


Just wondering what you consider to be proper profit margin, maybe I can tell UA management so they can make you happy and not the people who own the company a.k.a. shareholders.? Does the gas station "stick it to the consumer" when they raise prices, Starbucks? Whole Foods? General Mills? is doing something to increase your profits "sticking it to the consumer" ? Just wondering.....


The shareholders sit around as their investment makes money, and they do not own the company that is a misunderstanding of the concept.


Wrong. Shareholders risk their own capital, and it's hard to believe it lately but investments can and do lose value, sometimes incredibly rapidly.

That equity is ownership of a company is a basic fact of law. You are either very young or have been failed by the education system to say such a thing.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:40 pm

United is flying around with a mid 80% load factors and they are doing 10s of billions of Dollars in revenue every year........I’m certain they know what their passengers want. United’s 777-300s go out full all over the world every single day so clearly people aren’t booking away. Besides nearly all 777 operators in the world are 3-4-3 so clearly United is offering an industry standard product.

If you Don’t like United fine but it’s exhausting reading posts trying to talk other people out of flying United.
 
bananaboy
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:07 pm

VetteDude wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
ordpark wrote:
Why does this surprise or upset anyone? (AWACSooner) The name of the game is to make money....


that's if your a share holder. The name of the game for the consumer is cheap airfare AND comfort which is why Delta wins. I wouldn't fly in the back of a UA widebody plane for free.


Consumers have consistently voted that they prefer cheap above all else. If UA could make more money by charging more and having fewer seats, they absolutely would do it without second thought.


...or alternatively, if they (or any airline) could offer more seats at the same fares which as a result means less comfort, they would also do that without a second thought so long as it does not drive people to a competitor.

Like most commercial enterprises, you charge as much as you can for giving just as much as you need to in order to attract and ideally keep your customer.

Mark
Last edited by bananaboy on Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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airzim
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Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:09 pm

filipair wrote:
United is pushing it with crappiness people will need to endure by choosing them in the future. In the recent past, I've had some of my best TATL flights on United, mostly thanks to some great crews. But this sardine can development, the paying customer beat down incident and the terrible customer service and facilities experience at O'Hare... yikes. If I can at all help it, my money is going to an airline that has a bit less contempt for its guests.


Do you include Emirates in this category? They’ve been flying 3-4-3 since day 1 of taking delivery of their 777s.
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:15 pm

exunited wrote:
Just wondering what you consider to be proper profit margin, maybe I can tell UA management so they can make you happy and not the people who own the company a.k.a. shareholders.? Does the gas station "stick it to the consumer" when they raise prices, Starbucks? Whole Foods? General Mills? is doing something to increase your profits "sticking it to the consumer" ? Just wondering.....


There is no real answer. I've also asked repeatedly to no avail. Some members of the public seem so conditioned to an airline industry determined to self-immolation, and have so come to expect the benefits of that capital destruction that accrued to them, that they simply cannot and will not accept that airlines are now being run as responsible businesses that have to make responsible business choices.

b747400erf wrote:
The shareholders sit around as their investment makes money, and they do not own the company that is a misunderstanding of the concept.


:roll:

Ha, yeah ... shareholders "sit around" while other people, usually in another city who they've never met, make decisions about how to invest, spend and, hopefully, grow their retirement savings, children's college funds, etc. And oh by the way, along with those shareholders just "sitting around" counting their money, the other massive beneficiaries of an airline industry aligning value with cost and generating reasonable returns have been workers. Ask just about any worker, at any U.S. airline, whether or not consolidation has been good for them - I'm pretty confident of the common answer.

The level of disconnection from economic reality in some quarters is truly remarkable.

B737900ER wrote:
The customer is unwilling to pay for a better experience. This has been proven over and over again. Why get upset at a corporation for adapting to a changing environment. Instead be upset at the consumer who is the driver behind the changes.


:checkmark:

gsg013 wrote:
Interesting that UA is going with 50 seats in J. This is the same at the PMCO 777-200ER which currently have 50 in J. Obviously UA knows much about their market and that they can fill 50 J seats with mostly paying customers on most of their 777 routes.

On the other hand I wonder why DL I believe is going with just 24 J for their new suites product. I guess they can increase the prices for J to squeeze more yield but if demand is for much higher than 24 seats I could see DL losing some premium customers that cant get a seat.


It is, indeed, very interesting to see how the three airlines are configuring their 777s going forward. United is clearly going much bigger on the premium (or, perhaps more specifically, the most premium cabin) cabin, but will lack PE, at least for now. AA and Delta will both have smaller J cabins, but will also both have PE cabins, with AA 9-abreast and Delta 8-abreast. In the end, though, it looks like they're all going to end up with very similar total capacities on their 777s.
 
speedbird52
Posts: 743
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:30 am

Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:40 pm

den777200 wrote:
United needs to re-think their Economy Plus Product. Working in the travel industry we see more and more travelers heading over to the carriers that truly offer a Premium Economy Class Product.

As someone with experience in the industry I am sure you would be able to answer this: Is it true that most people will give up comfort for price?
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4350
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:46 pm

The reality is people complain, but in the end pay with their wallets, and United knows this in economy. Its a bummer for long haul, but i still think the legroom and new thin seats are worse then 10 abreast 777.

The major complaint i hear these days in coach is actually the new lightweight thin seats. When someone in your row moves you all feel it, and they offer little support. Recently i was on a flight with the lighter thin United seats on a 319 and someone was snoring in our row. I was isle he was window and It was weird you could feel the snor, never experienced that with the normal seats. They are lightweight but also light on comfort.
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 535
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:54 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
The reality is people complain, but in the end pay with their wallets, and United knows this in economy. Its a bummer for long haul, but i still think the legroom and new thin seats are worse then 10 abreast 777.

The major complaint i hear these days in coach is actually the new lightweight thin seats. When someone in your row moves you all feel it, and they offer little support. Recently i was on a flight with the lighter thin United seats on a 319 and someone was snoring in our row. I was isle he was window and It was weird you could feel the snor, never experienced that with the normal seats. They are lightweight but also light on comfort.


The guy you were sitting next too was so comfortable he was snoring??? Sounds like comfort is subjective.

As a commuter I’m on 2 UA flights a week always in coach. As a 6ft 4in 230lbs man I have zero discomfort due to seat padding or pitch and can usually sleep. However I can’t afford to lose any more legroom, and as it is in straight E my knees are smashed. However if I’m in Economy plus I’m very comfortable even with the new slim lines.
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1190
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:04 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
Besides nearly all 777 operators in the world are 3-4-3 so clearly United is offering an industry standard product.

Contrast to what you're saying, the majority of the 777 fleets in the world are still in 3-3-3 or even 2-4-3 config, especially in this half of the world. Think of TK, TG, OZ, CZ, KE, JL, NH (minus the domestic birds), BA, CA (3-class one), CX (for now), ET, MS, AI, BR (expect the new ones), just to name a few.

Although I agree it's harder to find 3-3-3 config in new deliveries, it's still everywhere and can be easily found.

Michael
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 535
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:09 pm

eamondzhang wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
Besides nearly all 777 operators in the world are 3-4-3 so clearly United is offering an industry standard product.

Contrast to what you're saying, the majority of the 777 fleets in the world are still in 3-3-3 or even 2-4-3 config, especially in this half of the world. Think of TK, TG, OZ, CZ, KE, JL, NH (minus the domestic birds), BA, CA (3-class one), CX (for now), ET, MS, AI, BR (expect the new ones), just to name a few.

Although I agree it's harder to find 3-3-3 config in new deliveries, it's still everywhere and can be easily found.

Michael


Good to know I thought that list was smaller. Thanks.
 
User avatar
jaybird
Posts: 342
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 4:23 am

Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:19 pm

No one in my office is happy with the higher density on the 772s to/from the mainland. First is 2-4-2 which is not much different width-wise - 19 vs 17.1 according to SeatGuru - and there are no complimentary upgrades any longer except for LAX and SFO. Coach at 3-4-3 when you're trying to do work - and you know there's no possibility of an upgrade - is not a happy experience.
 
mdavies06
Posts: 522
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:28 pm

Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:39 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
Besides nearly all 777 operators in the world are 3-4-3 so clearly United is offering an industry standard product.

Contrast to what you're saying, the majority of the 777 fleets in the world are still in 3-3-3 or even 2-4-3 config, especially in this half of the world. Think of TK, TG, OZ, CZ, KE, JL, NH (minus the domestic birds), BA, CA (3-class one), CX (for now), ET, MS, AI, BR (expect the new ones), just to name a few.

Although I agree it's harder to find 3-3-3 config in new deliveries, it's still everywhere and can be easily found.

Michael


Good to know I thought that list was smaller. Thanks.


BA has announced its intention to go 10 abreast soon. CZ and JL have 10 abreast in 772.
 
User avatar
cosyr
Posts: 1318
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:41 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Latest seat map shows that UA will add at least 23 seats to its 777-200 long-haul fleet.

United Airlines will add at least 23 seats to its long-haul Boeing 777-200s when it reconfigures the aircraft with its new Polaris business class seats.

The Chicago-based carrier will configure the aircraft with 50 lie-flat Polaris business seats and 242 economy seats, shows a seating diagram sent to flight attendants and provided to FlightGlobal by a source.


Seat map can be found in the article.

Article
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... fi-442165/

So now I can't fly any variety of 777, unless I'm in J. I would not spend 6 hours in 10 across Y 777, let alone 12+. I'm not surprised, but still disappointed. Luckily, the 767's will be here for a few years to come.
 
boilerla
Posts: 410
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:30 am

Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:25 am

Still hoping they'll add a true premium economy product. In this configuration, to add 2 rows of W, I'm guessing they'd lose 12 seats--one row of Y and 9 abreast in Y+, if I had to guess. That'd be a 772 with 50J/18W--pretty premium if they can fill it.

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