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Slug71
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:35 pm

Themotionman wrote:
Am I seriously the only one who thinks this idea is absolutely ridiculous?


Nope. I just don't see this happening either.
I think if B6 was to merge with anyone, I think it would be with an airline of similar or smaller size than itself.
 
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NYPECO
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:49 pm

Themotionman wrote:
Am I seriously the only one who thinks this idea is absolutely ridiculous?

It seems that plenty of others in this thread agree with you.
 
SFOThinker
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:20 pm

When AA bought AirCal, it was a disaster, and ended up handing California to WN.
I suspect something similar would happen if UA somehow pulled off this awful idea.
 
santi319
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:24 pm

The only place these rumors are "floating" is in the minds of some users in a-Net.. while B6 has become an operational nightmare, they have enough $ to pull through bigger and better organically...
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:33 pm

I said the same thing about the VX and AS merger, but no, you people thought it was genius. It was/is a horrible move that made no sense with two different companies with two different fleets/route structures/culture. B6 & UA makes more sense than AS & VX. Do I see it happening? No, not without seriously giving up routes/slots at EWR, JFK, and DCA. WN would come in and eat up most of the East Coast traffic.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
ual763
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:05 pm

Slug71 wrote:
Themotionman wrote:
Am I seriously the only one who thinks this idea is absolutely ridiculous?


Nope. I just don't see this happening either.
I think if B6 was to merge with anyone, I think it would be with an airline of similar or smaller size than itself.


Umm, United is one of the largest airlines in the world. It dwarves JetBlue in pretty much every way. Jet blue is a LOT smaller than United. That being said though, I don't see it happening either.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
twinotter
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:39 pm

jumbojet wrote:
Yesterday, on a seemingly perfect weather flying day, B6 had 16% of their flights delayed.


Those in the airline industry know that yesterday, Friday, October 13, there was a ground delay program at JFK, which affected approximately 16% of Jetblue departures.
 
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ual747den
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:39 pm

I don't think that UA gains enough to even seriously consider this merger. HOWEVER I do not see a regulatory issue if they wanted to with the current administration. The only reason I could see doing something like this would be looking WAY WAY WAY out into the future and gaining access to the slots that B6 holds along with getting rid of a competitor. As things stand right now though, there is no reason for a B6/UA merger.
Frontier Airlines - Low Fares Done Right
 
Cointrin330
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:46 pm

JRL3289 wrote:
Never understood the appeal of an UA/B6 tie up. UA already has the best NYC-area hub and is virtually tied with DL for third place in BOS. The value of FLL, MCO, LGB and SJU in this equation seems to be inconsequential. All this would do is eliminate a competitor that has more exposure to UA's peers than to UA itself. In other words, it would help AA and DL consolidate their positions in NYC, Boston, South Florida and Orlando, more than it would help UA grow its presence in any of the aforementioned markets.

If anything, I see AA/B6 as the most viable option for a legacy-B6 merger since it would essentially bring AA to parity with DL and UA in the New York market. AA would end up larger than UA overall with the #1 spot at JFK, close #2 at LGA and very, very distant #2 at EWR. BOS could potentially pose an antitrust issue since a combined AA/B6 would control over 50% of the market, but then again AA/US were allowed to merge with limited divestments at DCA and a 50% market share.

As an aside, NYC - LGA, JFK and EWR - is one market. Full stop.


Yeah, no. If AA were to merge with B6, it would become a formidable competitor to DL at JFK and an even more forceful one at LGA, but it would not bring AA to parity with DL and UA in the NY area market. Not quite. It would restore AA's dominance in the Caribbean market, make it a very big competitor on transcontinental flights, and give it a book of aircraft (A321LRs) that could open up markets across the Atlantic from JFK that AA can't seem to make work now, with what they have. But, as you correctly say, it would raise antitrust issues (any tie up with B6 with one of the US3 would) given the concentration in some markets. However, it's not all that far fetched. A B6/AS merger is the more likely one to get approved, and would look somewhat like the US/AW merger in 2005.
 
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Slug71
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:06 am

ual763 wrote:
Slug71 wrote:
Themotionman wrote:
Am I seriously the only one who thinks this idea is absolutely ridiculous?


Nope. I just don't see this happening either.
I think if B6 was to merge with anyone, I think it would be with an airline of similar or smaller size than itself.


Umm, United is one of the largest airlines in the world. It dwarves JetBlue in pretty much every way. Jet blue is a LOT smaller than United. That being said though, I don't see it happening either.


Exactly. UA "could" purchase B6, but I don't think B6 would be interested. Not when they could go after a similar sized or smaller airline themselves.
 
rta
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:23 am

I doubt UA is even in a position to merge another airline. It still looks like they're trying to get things under 1 roof.
 
mm320cap
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:39 am

SFOtoORD wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
Yesterday, on a seemingly perfect weather flying day, B6 had 16% of their flights delayed. United had 15% of their flights delayed. Together, it will be a mess. Throw in some bad weather and matters multiply exponentially. This is day in and day out, good weather or bad weather. Must be very frustrating for the pax.

The funny part is that B6 blames their chronically delayed flights on ATC. That's ridiculous. B6 should stop blaming their problems on others and accept blame and responsibility for their inability run a timely operation.

B6's planes are getting old, they're not maintained adequately which is what is leading to delay after delay after delay. Maybe B6 should have Delta tech ops perform their maintenance? Its not ATC's fault, shame on JetBlue. Shame, shame, shame.


Using a single day’s data point is always the best way to extrapolate a long term trend. :roll: Your fanboyism is blinding.


Don’t give jumbojet so much credit. His single day data point is, as usual, completely wrong. SFO was running between 2-4 hours of flow due to reduced visibility with smoke. SFO, of course, being one of UA’s biggest hubs.

I suspect jumbo will be dressed as a giant troll for Halloween. I’ll agree with him on one thing, however. Delta’s tech ops is phenomenal.
 
cschleic
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:24 am

rta wrote:
I doubt UA is even in a position to merge another airline. It still looks like they're trying to get things under 1 roof.


:checkmark: New management. Integration issues still to be resolved, fleet decisions, existing hubs to be addressed, etc. Adding more isn't in the cards.

And...please would a.nutters quit using fleet commonality as a reason for mergers. Looking at a few recent ones..... AA (Boeing and MD) & USAirways (mostly Airbus). United (mix) and Continental (Boeing). Delta (Boeing and MD) and Northwest (mix, Airbus was largest number). Alaska (Boeing) and Virgin America (Airbus). Clearly, fleet commonality is a very important factor. The mega carriers have become so large that it just doesn't matter anymore. After all, AA and DL are buying lots of both of them.
 
catiii
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:57 am

jumbojet wrote:
lets examine todays operations from both airlines.

UA is currently running at 19% of flight operations delayed.
B6 is currently running at 10% of their flights delayed (actually a good day for B6)

Combined, that's nearly 30% total flights delayed.

Is this really what we would have to look forward to? When weather is pretty much a non issue, nearly one out of three flights will be delayed. Pretty horrible.


B6 is actually running better than you claim. Of course you're just making up numbers so...
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:03 am

Slug71 wrote:
Themotionman wrote:
Am I seriously the only one who thinks this idea is absolutely ridiculous?


Nope. I just don't see this happening either.
I think if B6 was to merge with anyone, I think it would be with an airline of similar or smaller size than itself.


I think Alaska. Very little overlap and both are super-regionals. However, the B6 model would need to prevail with quick turnarounds and high utilization.
 
catiii
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:04 am

IPFreely wrote:
fastmover wrote:
Now if you could just show me how you know they are not matained properly.
I’ll wait.

That’s a very very wild accusation, and irresponsible.


JetBlue planes are properly maintained.

They are also not old; JetBlue's average fleet age is 9 years. Compared to 17 years for Delta, 14 for United, 12 for Southwest, 11 for American, 11 for Hawaiian, and 9 for Alaska, JetBlue has the youngest fleet among all major carriers.

It's a shame that this site allows some posters to continually post lies.


Seconded. I'll publicly call out the Mods for not policing this behavior better.
 
jfk777
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:05 am

United buying JB makes about as much sense as then buying Southwest. United doesn't need JFK, Boston or Florida which are well covered by its Newark hub. United has a huge New York area hub at Newark where they fly nonstop all the way to India, Israel, Hing Kong, Peking, Shanghai and Tokyo.

If JB was to merge with a US3 airline AA would make more sense, it would give AA huge mass in New York and control of Terminals 5 through 8 at JFK with the British Airways terminal 7 in between.
 
fastmover
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:25 am

catiii wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
fastmover wrote:
Now if you could just show me how you know they are not matained properly.
I’ll wait.

That’s a very very wild accusation, and irresponsible.


JetBlue planes are properly maintained.

They are also not old; JetBlue's average fleet age is 9 years. Compared to 17 years for Delta, 14 for United, 12 for Southwest, 11 for American, 11 for Hawaiian, and 9 for Alaska, JetBlue has the youngest fleet among all major carriers.

It's a shame that this site allows some posters to continually post lies.


Seconded. I'll publicly call out the Mods for not policing this behavior better.



I agree.

As a JetBlue employee that guy really annoys me.
He has now said our airplanes are not properly matained. He has no clue. As someone who accepted said aircraft on my 4 flights today not a single mel. He also has disparaged our employees as well as asserted our pilots are not as well trained as Delta. Look debate what you want but you better know what you are talking about. Some of us are actually on the front lines here and live with this stuff everyday vs some fanboy.

There is no doubt we have had operational challenges. Much of that has to do with our hub locations and much has to do with short turn times as well as running an airline to please Wall St (current CEO vs past CEO) cut costs cut costs cut costs.

But I am simply amazed that he has the bravado to post what he does without knowing the truth.

As far as UA and JetBlue IF IF IF Wall St wants it, it will be done.

JetBlue is coming up on a very pivotal time. The organic growth model went out the window when we went for VA. I think you will see 1 of 3 things soon.

1 A major expansion and Trans-Atlantic flying

2 We buy someone (spirit of frontier)

3 We pull an Airtran and this as far as we can go so out goes the for sale sign.

We can't stay as we are. We are simply to small to defend our hubs and compete with the big guys.
 
WWads
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:50 am

Themotionman wrote:
Am I seriously the only one who thinks this idea is absolutely ridiculous?


Nope. This is just absurd noise.
 
rbavfan
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:59 am

jumbojet wrote:
Yesterday, on a seemingly perfect weather flying day, B6 had 16% of their flights delayed. United had 15% of their flights delayed. Together, it will be a mess. Throw in some bad weather and matters multiply exponentially. This is day in and day out, good weather or bad weather. Must be very frustrating for the pax.

The funny part is that B6 blames their chronically delayed flights on ATC. That's ridiculous. B6 should stop blaming their problems on others and accept blame and responsibility for their inability run a timely operation.

B6's planes are getting old, they're not maintained adequately which is what is leading to delay after delay after delay. Maybe B6 should have Delta tech ops perform their maintenance? Its not ATC's fault, shame on JetBlue. Shame, shame, shame.


I thank we all saw you creating a way to make this about Delta.
Last edited by rbavfan on Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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qf789
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:00 am

catiii wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
fastmover wrote:
Now if you could just show me how you know they are not matained properly.
I’ll wait.

That’s a very very wild accusation, and irresponsible.


JetBlue planes are properly maintained.

They are also not old; JetBlue's average fleet age is 9 years. Compared to 17 years for Delta, 14 for United, 12 for Southwest, 11 for American, 11 for Hawaiian, and 9 for Alaska, JetBlue has the youngest fleet among all major carriers.

It's a shame that this site allows some posters to continually post lies.


Seconded. I'll publicly call out the Mods for not policing this behavior better.


We as moderators take action when it is brought to our attention. Did you report the behavior? No. We as moderators do not read every post in every thread as stated clearly in the forum rules nor can we be everywhere and all users would be aware that if they see any posts that do not follow the rules to report it so we can take the appropriate action. Alternatively if don't want to report the post, email us [email protected]
Forum Moderator
 
dennis2380
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:08 am

at this point of working for united ,i just want to retire before they united my retirement
 
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Slug71
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:59 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I think Alaska. Very little overlap and both are super-regionals. However, the B6 model would need to prevail with quick turnarounds and high utilization.


I think that would be far more possible than a merger with UA.
 
twinotter
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:13 am

fastmover wrote:
As a JetBlue employee that guy really annoys me.


No need. The fascinating thing about that guy is how obsessed he is with Jetblue. I can see United and American upsetting the Delta yes-girls, but Jetblue? In the industry, Jetblue is a gnat and Delta is an elephant. And he is clearly terrified of the gnat. Your company is doing something right.
 
NZ321
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:11 am

fastmover wrote:
catiii wrote:
IPFreely wrote:

JetBlue planes are properly maintained.

They are also not old; JetBlue's average fleet age is 9 years. Compared to 17 years for Delta, 14 for United, 12 for Southwest, 11 for American, 11 for Hawaiian, and 9 for Alaska, JetBlue has the youngest fleet among all major carriers.

It's a shame that this site allows some posters to continually post lies.


Seconded. I'll publicly call out the Mods for not policing this behavior better.



I agree.

As a JetBlue employee that guy really annoys me.
He has now said our airplanes are not properly matained. He has no clue. As someone who accepted said aircraft on my 4 flights today not a single mel. He also has disparaged our employees as well as asserted our pilots are not as well trained as Delta. Look debate what you want but you better know what you are talking about. Some of us are actually on the front lines here and live with this stuff everyday vs some fanboy.

There is no doubt we have had operational challenges. Much of that has to do with our hub locations and much has to do with short turn times as well as running an airline to please Wall St (current CEO vs past CEO) cut costs cut costs cut costs.

But I am simply amazed that he has the bravado to post what he does without knowing the truth.

As far as UA and JetBlue IF IF IF Wall St wants it, it will be done.

JetBlue is coming up on a very pivotal time. The organic growth model went out the window when we went for VA. I think you will see 1 of 3 things soon.

1 A major expansion and Trans-Atlantic flying

2 We buy someone (spirit of frontier)

3 We pull an Airtran and this as far as we can go so out goes the for sale sign.

We can't stay as we are. We are simply to small to defend our hubs and compete with the big guys.


I agree JetBlue needs to grow to stay viable.

An acquisition and some expansion could go some way to rectifying the problem. Or a merger or cooperative arrangement with AS/VX which would be a hell of a lot more acceptable than a merger with UA.

The last thing the USA needs is for AS/VX to be swallowed by DL and B6 by UAL. How is this in the travelling public's interests? It just further dilutes options and competition. The consolidation of the majors has tipped the balance and now we have to hope that the independents remain viable or consolidate themselves so we have another viable major airline. We don't need 3 majors and no alternative.

I suppose B6's interest in Atlantic flying is probably not going to be something which UA or DL want to see given B6's loyal customer base on the east coast. So that could also be a dynamic in the mix.
Plane mad!
 
wpigott
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:21 am

Maybe not a merger but a push to get B6 to join Star.

B6 founder Neeleman is now a owner of TAP Portugal and, though they sold their shares, there is a history with Lufthansa & B6. Additionally UA is an investor in Neeleman's current airline Azul (AD). It would give Star a junior American partner they lost with the AA/US merger and there is enough Star TATL traffic into NYC that JFK could supplement EWR for connections.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:10 pm

There seems to be a pissing contest between 2 posters above with accusations of fake news.

Just a fact check:

Over the last year, B6 has been at or near the bottom for on time arrivals.

That is not fake news. You just have to google DOT on time stats and read the report.

There are a lot of reasons for this:JFK/BOS runway construction; JFK in general; overuse of planes; low ratio of staffing vs other majors; no regional to offset EDCTS and cancels on

That can be discussed, but again, B6 having one of the lowest on time rates in the industry is not FAKE NEWS. It is a statistical fact.
 
commavia
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:47 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
2. UA gets back to JFK and while they will be bigger at EWR, they will start flying international from both airports plus the trans cons and Airbuses


Why does United need to get "back to JFK" at this point? I understand Kirby's previous point that United should not have walked away from the JFK transcon market, but at this point, that ship having sailed, what does United gain by operating "international from both airports," especially since there is a near-virtual certainty that United would be required to relinquish many if not most of JetBlue's prime slots at JFK, anyway.

This all seems highly implausible.

jfklganyc wrote:
4. B6 workers Will all be on board with huge raises and integration into the worlds largest airline (job security)


And what will happen to the JetBlue route system that United is going to presumably spend billions buying when those "huge raises" (and higher unit costs in general, and different aircraft configuration, etc.) render much of said route system unprofitable?

Again - I'm still struggling to figure out how this makes any economic sense.
 
AVFCdownunder
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:30 pm

maxholstemh1521 wrote:
Looks like this rumor won't die. The article brings up some interesting points, such as UA/B6 controlling 42% of the New York market, and UA/B6 would attempt to have EWR excluded from the traffic count in NY.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/ ... re-jetblue


How likely is it that they would successfully argue, as indicated, that Newark is a separate market to La Guardia and JFK? I'd have thought that would be somewhat difficult.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:32 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
4. B6 workers Will all be on board with huge raises and integration into the worlds largest airline (job security)


I dont think all workgroups would be onboard with this. If they look close enough they will see inferior reserve work rules and with how senior UA is, all of JetBlue will most definitely be on reserve for a long time to come. And if they close hubs (especially the Florida hubs) it would be a down right disaster.

Maybe if they put fences around MCO/FLL like Airtran has in Atlanta, this could work.

This is why JetBlues workgroups need to do like the Pilots did and Unionize, and FAST. The non-unionized work groups will be thrown deep under the bus to garner a better sale price.
 
IPFreely
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:52 pm

twinotter wrote:
No need. The fascinating thing about that guy is how obsessed he is with Jetblue. I can see United and American upsetting the Delta yes-girls, but Jetblue? In the industry, Jetblue is a gnat and Delta is an elephant. And he is clearly terrified of the gnat. Your company is doing something right.


Delta has a hub at JFK and is attempting to build a hub at BOS. JetBlue is a close #2 at JFK and is on pace to be the #1 airline at JFK in the next couple of years. And JetBlue is by far the #1 airline in BOS. United, American, and Southwest are all definitely bigger than JetBlue. But JetBlue is the airline that is successfully stopping Delta from trying to create a ATL or DTW "fortress-type" hubs at JFK or BOS.
 
catiii
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:25 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
4. B6 workers Will all be on board with huge raises and integration into the worlds largest airline (job security)


I dont think all workgroups would be onboard with this. If they look close enough they will see inferior reserve work rules and with how senior UA is, all of JetBlue will most definitely be on reserve for a long time to come. And if they close hubs (especially the Florida hubs) it would be a down right disaster.

Maybe if they put fences around MCO/FLL like Airtran has in Atlanta, this could work.

This is why JetBlues workgroups need to do like the Pilots did and Unionize, and FAST. The non-unionized work groups will be thrown deep under the bus to garner a better sale price.


Why? The only workgroup unionized at Delta were the pilots. Being in a union wasn't beneficial to anyone at NW...
 
JRL3289
Posts: 71
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:35 am

IPFreely wrote:
twinotter wrote:
No need. The fascinating thing about that guy is how obsessed he is with Jetblue. I can see United and American upsetting the Delta yes-girls, but Jetblue? In the industry, Jetblue is a gnat and Delta is an elephant. And he is clearly terrified of the gnat. Your company is doing something right.


Delta has a hub at JFK and is attempting to build a hub at BOS. JetBlue is a close #2 at JFK and is on pace to be the #1 airline at JFK in the next couple of years. And JetBlue is by far the #1 airline in BOS. United, American, and Southwest are all definitely bigger than JetBlue. But JetBlue is the airline that is successfully stopping Delta from trying to create a ATL or DTW "fortress-type" hubs at JFK or BOS.


There’s no way for any carrier to build a fortress hub a JFK or BOS. At JFK, DL is less than 20% larger than B6 and around twice the size of AA; at BOS, DL is a very distant third place (half AA and a third the size of B6). The markets are too fragmented and too highly developed at this point for anything approaching a fortress hub to happen.
 
ASFlyer
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:27 am

Super80Fan wrote:
I said the same thing about the VX and AS merger, but no, you people thought it was genius. It was/is a horrible move that made no sense with two different companies with two different fleets/route structures/culture. B6 & UA makes more sense than AS & VX. Do I see it happening? No, not without seriously giving up routes/slots at EWR, JFK, and DCA. WN would come in and eat up most of the East Coast traffic.


we've yet to see what's to become of the AS/VX merger - so far, the combination of the two has created something that looks very similar to B6, albeit on the west coast. The work forces have yet to combine and, frankly, AA/US and UA/CO weren't exactly marriages made in heaven using your metrics.
 
FlyHossD
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:44 am

One of my close comrades attended a meeting that included Oscar Munoz just a few days ago and the merger question was asked. According to my buddy, Oscar's answer was something like, "No, there's nothing in the works and I doubt any merger could get approved anyway."
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
RollerRB211
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:22 am

jumbojet wrote:
lets examine todays operations from both airlines.

UA is currently running at 19% of flight operations delayed.
B6 is currently running at 10% of their flights delayed (actually a good day for B6)

Combined, that's nearly 30% total flights delayed.

Is this really what we would have to look forward to? When weather is pretty much a non issue, nearly one out of three flights will be delayed. Pretty horrible.


People, you are getting trolled by someone who doesn't understand how basic math works.19% of X + 10% of Y doesn't equal 30% of X+Y. It has also been proven in other threads that he/she doesn't know basic industry metrics like CASM. Just ignore the troll and move on.
 
strfyr51
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Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:23 am

mm320cap wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
UA is usually at the bottom with on-time performance and with cancelling flights as is JetBlue.. A combined B6 and UA will be an operational nightmare.


Absolutely wrong. Dead wrong. But expected from you. #fakenews


And why would that be EXACTLY?? UA has 165 A320/A319's, We know how to fly them and we know how to FIX them. Our on time performance is on par with AA and DL, And our route structure is Unmatched. You're spouting BS!! You have NO idea what you're talking about !!
 
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STT757
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:50 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
This is a great merger and will happen in
next few years:

1. Trump admin will allow it

2. UA gets back to JFK and while they will be bigger at EWR, they will start flying international from both airports plus the trans cons and Airbuses

3. They will quickly win support from New York's congressional delegation when they combine the small Midtown office that United has into Long Island city and agree to keep 1000+ jobs there. this will give United the hometown airline Branding that JetBlue has, a leg up on Delta, all the while if they will still be headquartered in Chicago.

4. B6 workers Will all be on board with huge raises and integration into the worlds largest airline (job security)

5. Solves jetblues biggest problem: where to grow now?


This deal is as good as done over the next 3 years (while trump is in office)


1. 100% agree, now if ever. The current political environment would definitely speed up any long term plans to near term opportunities.

2. Maybe LHR long haul, and or Paris and Tel Aviv. But just those as they lack partners to those hubs. Everything else at JFK would be geared toward O&D and or moving traffic onto partners who are plenty. Perhaps Mint A321NEOs to LHR and CDG from JFK while the 763s operate from EWR.

3. Not just New York, but Florida. UA has maintenance facilities at MCO, B6 has training facilities. A commitment of some type to grow either or both components would win support of influential Republicans from the Sunshine state.

4. JetBlue employees are never going to move into the WN, DL, UA, AA pay scales without integrating with one of them.

5. Again agree 100%. I don't buy the grow long haul by purchasing A330s or A321LRs, it's an area where alliances, networks, contracts, clubs, mileage plans etc.. all count. B6 has to figure out who they want to be, the hybrid is not going to work. Either go the WN route, simplifying routes, aircraft, crews etc.. or merge.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
richierich
Moderator
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:01 pm

jumbojet wrote:
B6's planes are getting old, they're not maintained adequately which is what is leading to delay after delay after delay. Maybe B6 should have Delta tech ops perform their maintenance? Its not ATC's fault, shame on JetBlue. Shame, shame, shame.


Support please? Oh, that's right there isn't any, as usual.
Moderators, any way to block unsubstantiated and unhelpful posts such as almost all of them from jumbojet? Or at least move them all to the travel/poll section? This person clearly comes on here only to troll others, and actually makes all airlines look bad including the one he supports the most. Truly the scourge of airliners.net!
None shall pass!!!!
 
KICT
Posts: 815
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:26 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
There seems to be a pissing contest between 2 posters above with accusations of fake news.

Just a fact check:

Over the last year, B6 has been at or near the bottom for on time arrivals.

That is not fake news. You just have to google DOT on time stats and read the report.

There are a lot of reasons for this:JFK/BOS runway construction; JFK in general; overuse of planes; low ratio of staffing vs other majors; no regional to offset EDCTS and cancels on

That can be discussed, but again, B6 having one of the lowest on time rates in the industry is not FAKE NEWS. It is a statistical fact.


Spot on, as usual. B6 will either be merged or out of business within 5 years.
People are saying. Believe me.
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:33 pm

JRL3289 wrote:
There’s no way for any carrier to build a fortress hub a JFK or BOS. At JFK, DL is less than 20% larger than B6 and around twice the size of AA; at BOS, DL is a very distant third place (half AA and a third the size of B6). The markets are too fragmented and too highly developed at this point for anything approaching a fortress hub to happen.


:checkmark:

FlyHossD wrote:
One of my close comrades attended a meeting that included Oscar Munoz just a few days ago and the merger question was asked. According to my buddy, Oscar's answer was something like, "No, there's nothing in the works and I doubt any merger could get approved anyway."


:checkmark:

STT757 wrote:
5. Again agree 100%. I don't buy the grow long haul by purchasing A330s or A321LRs, it's an area where alliances, networks, contracts, clubs, mileage plans etc.. all count. B6 has to figure out who they want to be, the hybrid is not going to work. Either go the WN route, simplifying routes, aircraft, crews etc.. or merge.


I am not sure that the choice JetBlue faces is quite that binary. I share others' skepticism about the ultimate scalability of JetBlue's current business model - it has obviously proven far, far more scalable than Virgin America, but even with that, JetBlue's business model does indeed seem to suffer from a similar challenge in that it hasn't seemed particularly adaptable outside of large, coastal cities. Any forays into the interior, where they've worked, have essentially only been to or from one of those large, coastal cities - and in particular those where JetBlue already has critical mass.

That said, I am even more skeptical about the efficacy of JetBlue pursing some type of inorganic, transaction-based solution to this challenge with United of all other airlines. I don't think it would be hyperbole to say that a hypothetical United-JetBlue combination would be the most egregious merger mismatch in the recent history of the airline industry - possibly in the entire deregulation era. If - bit if - JetBlue does ultimately decide that the right business decision is some form of a transaction, then if anything, I agree with others that a Alaska-JetBlue combination down the road makes much more sense, for a lot of reasons, than United-JetBlue.

One early, if indirect, indicator of JetBlue management's own view of the company's long-term scalability may be the upcoming decision on the 190s. Those 190s have economics that are arguably suboptimal, at least on a segment basis, compared with a high-density A320 or A321. But they do give JetBlue access to markets that, for instance, all-737 Southwest cannot realistically enter. So we'll see.
Last edited by commavia on Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6028
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:35 pm

KICT wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
There seems to be a pissing contest between 2 posters above with accusations of fake news.

Just a fact check:

Over the last year, B6 has been at or near the bottom for on time arrivals.

That is not fake news. You just have to google DOT on time stats and read the report.

There are a lot of reasons for this:JFK/BOS runway construction; JFK in general; overuse of planes; low ratio of staffing vs other majors; no regional to offset EDCTS and cancels on

That can be discussed, but again, B6 having one of the lowest on time rates in the industry is not FAKE NEWS. It is a statistical fact.


Spot on, as usual. B6 will either be merged or out of business within 5 years.


I am so confused why an airline that is one of the most profitable in the world and have better margins than all three of the legacies need to be merged or be out of business.

On time rate and profitability are not the same thing.
 
Abeam79
Posts: 345
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:03 pm

tphuang wrote:
KICT wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
There seems to be a pissing contest between 2 posters above with accusations of fake news.

Just a fact check:

Over the last year, B6 has been at or near the bottom for on time arrivals.

That is not fake news. You just have to google DOT on time stats and read the report.

There are a lot of reasons for this:JFK/BOS runway construction; JFK in general; overuse of planes; low ratio of staffing vs other majors; no regional to offset EDCTS and cancels on

That can be discussed, but again, B6 having one of the lowest on time rates in the industry is not FAKE NEWS. It is a statistical fact.


Spot on, as usual. B6 will either be merged or out of business within 5 years.


I am so confused why an airline that is one of the most profitable in the world and have better margins than all three of the legacies need to be merged or be out of business.

On time rate and profitability are not the same thing.


It’s not confusing, your assessment is in the right spot. The ones who said that are the same that said it about B6 back in 2000 when they started. The OO exec at B6 was once a AA exec and he said that to his AA team back in 2000. Now he is an exec at B6, what does that tell you?
B6 is the 6th most profitable airline in the world currently. They have a brand that has proven to work where it holds premium yields against its peers. They have the geography to go long haul, LR’s widebodies, etc if they choose to. Westjet is doing it, I see jetblue on the same trajectory. As a NY’er people are always saying they wish B6 can take them across the pond or further to s. America outside of Florida, transcon, and carribean.
That doesn’t say with those lucrative assets one of the big 3, or as/B6 transaction may not happen if the price is right. But “out of business”? Not with current trends
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:10 pm

KICT wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
There seems to be a pissing contest between 2 posters above with accusations of fake news.

Just a fact check:

Over the last year, B6 has been at or near the bottom for on time arrivals.

That is not fake news. You just have to google DOT on time stats and read the report.

There are a lot of reasons for this:JFK/BOS runway construction; JFK in general; overuse of planes; low ratio of staffing vs other majors; no regional to offset EDCTS and cancels on

That can be discussed, but again, B6 having one of the lowest on time rates in the industry is not FAKE NEWS. It is a statistical fact.


Spot on, as usual. B6 will either be merged or out of business within 5 years.



Said someone 5, 10 ,18 years ago.
Remember jetwho? And yet here that are.
 
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N717TW
Posts: 585
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:23 pm

So I am guessing that Hunter Keay holds a large DL position as they would benefit the most from any UA/B6 merger. Frankly with the exception of a Spirit/Frontier merger of a virtual-merger with an international carrier, any merger would benefit DL given that B6's lower-cost base advantage is what keeps DL at bay.

But you folks who are talking about this as if it might happen or that an AA/B6 merger might happen are being silly. jetBlue's bases overlap too much with UA and AA that significant divestment would be required...all of which would lead to DL either getting more slots, gates, etc. and being the beneficiary of such a deal. Unless the situation changes, it just doesn't make any sense.

As to UA....they could buy 15-20 A320s a year for the next five years and accomplish what the jetBlue merger would for much less money and more profit.
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 6257
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:34 am

No room in BOS JFK or FLL.

Unless they take those 15 airbuses per year and put them in MCI PIT BNA STL etc, they really have no place to go.

Out of their current hubs, I guess they could grow IAD.

EWR SFO LAX all have room for a little growth

DEN and IAH have the most room

ORD Will have more room in the future

but 65 new aircraft and no new hubs?likely not happening
 
superjeff
Posts: 1406
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Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:44 am

jfklganyc wrote:
This is a great merger and will happen in
next few years:

1. Trump admin will allow it

Not so sure. Just because he's a business man? Obama let AA/US happen.

2. UA gets back to JFK and while they will be bigger at EWR, they will start flying international from both airports plus the trans cons and Airbuses

True

3. They will quickly win support from New York's congressional delegation when they combine the small Midtown office that United has into Long Island city and agree to keep 1000+ jobs there. this will give United the hometown airline Branding that JetBlue has, a leg up on Delta, all the while if they will still be headquartered in Chicago.

United already tries to use that reference even though their big hub is in Newark (New Jersey)

4. B6 workers Will all be on board with huge raises and integration into the worlds largest airline (job security)

Sounds like Pan Am's acquisition of National back in 1980, all over again.

5. Solves jetblues biggest problem: where to grow now?


This deal is as good as done over the next 3 years (while trump is in office)
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5106
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:57 am

RalXWB wrote:
I really hope not otherwise the United (Boeing) Board will replace all those great 320s with 737s... :white:

Are you kidding? We already have A319-132's and A320-232's coming from China Southern as we speak?
We're Not getting rid of the A319's and A320's we already have Nor are we slacking in buying New B737's
What are you talking about ?!?
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 1117
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:32 am

Adipocere wrote:
UA/B6 would creat a significantly large mega-airline. Would this force Wall Streets hand to push for a DL/AA merger in response? Or would that set off a race between DL and AA to merge with WN not be left out as the bridesmaid with no one left to merge with?


I would be shocked if AA or DL would even entertain a merger with WN at this stage. The regulatory hoops either AA or DL would have to jump through would almost be insurmountable.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
Adipocere
Posts: 329
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:35 am

Re: UA/B6 Merger Rumors Floating Again

Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:50 am

ctrabs0114 wrote:
Adipocere wrote:
UA/B6 would creat a significantly large mega-airline. Would this force Wall Streets hand to push for a DL/AA merger in response? Or would that set off a race between DL and AA to merge with WN not be left out as the bridesmaid with no one left to merge with?


I would be shocked if AA or DL would even entertain a merger with WN at this stage. The regulatory hoops either AA or DL would have to jump through would almost be insurmountable.


I agree it's unthinkable in today's environment. However if the industry were to lurch towards even more consolidation, then all bets would be off and I suspect there would be a race to merge with just about anyone just to bulk up and not to be left out single at the end.

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