Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
CFM565A1
Posts: 438
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:50 pm

Well that's that, I knew that Airbus was a good place to land if they had to (pardon the pun)... I was surprised that it happened this soon following the start of this thread!
C172-M/N/P/R/S , PA-28-180, P2006T, PA-34-200T, B1900D, DH8A/C ERJ-145, CRJ-100/200, DH8D, CRJ-700/705/900, E-175/190, A319/320/321, 737-200/300/400/600/700/800/900ER/M8, MD-82/83, 757-200/300, 767-300, A330-300, 787-9, 777-300ER, F28-4000.
 
User avatar
VirginFlyer
Posts: 5571
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:50 pm

May I humbly suggest discussion of the C Series deal with Airbus continue on the thread about it - Breaking: Airbus and Bombardier Announce C Series Partnership - and leave this one for potential sales of other aircraft programmes?

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
User avatar
CFM565A1
Posts: 438
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:52 pm

ExMilitaryEng wrote:
iseeyyc wrote:
CFM565A1 wrote:
When you learn about Quebec pride/stubbornness/politics then you’ll understand why they won’t let Boeing anywhere near it.

The rest of Canada rolls its eyes when it comes to Quebec. They threaten to separate when they don't get their way and so the Liberal Party funnels money to keep them happy.


In the 1995 Quebec referendum, 49.5% voted yes to secession. (And more precisely, 65% of French speaking Quebecers voted yes).
So no, that was not a threat, 49.5% just wanted out.

That should have been a perfect solution for you "iseeyyc"; no more federal $ going into Quebec!!! You would have been so happy! (well no more Quebec tax going into Ottawa either ;-) )

Imagine, no Federal $ into BBD!!! (And NO Quebec tax $ going into bailing out GM / Chrysler Canadian assembly plants - where Canada actually lost Billions!!!)



Anyone with the name YYC= Blame Liberal Govts. for everything that happens (I'm from YYC btw).... but I agree with you ExMilitaryEng!
Anyways it's all for not now with the new Airbus deal!
C172-M/N/P/R/S , PA-28-180, P2006T, PA-34-200T, B1900D, DH8A/C ERJ-145, CRJ-100/200, DH8D, CRJ-700/705/900, E-175/190, A319/320/321, 737-200/300/400/600/700/800/900ER/M8, MD-82/83, 757-200/300, 767-300, A330-300, 787-9, 777-300ER, F28-4000.
 
thumper76
Posts: 216
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:08 pm

A majority of The program has been sold =there is value in the aircraft =questions about why the program was subsidied is gushed! There is value! At this point less than 33% of the program is subsidied. Take note Boeing and US.
 
User avatar
Slug71
Posts: 1491
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:08 am

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:10 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
May I humbly suggest discussion of the C Series deal with Airbus continue on the thread about it - Breaking: Airbus and Bombardier Announce C Series Partnership - and leave this one for potential sales of other aircraft programmes?

V/F


+1
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 11903
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:58 pm

texl1649 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
BoeingVista wrote:
CSeries makes a lot of sense for Airbus, kill A319, develop CS500 and target rewinged A322 firmly in the NMA space.

Two narrow-bodies and two wide-bodies sound like a nice line-up. Make the CS-series cockpit like the others in the family, especially the A320 series and you have the flexibility up front.


To whom? The A330NEO and C-series haven't sold a whole lot of frames the past few years, fyi. 2 basic frames makes sense. Airbus (A300/330/340/310 and A320), Boeing (737/707/727/757 and 747, then 777, and finally 787, if it's ever profitable), and McD (DC-9...DC10, the only real types they ever sold as jets) all sold two basic widths/families at their peak years (if you're focused on profits especially). No orphaned smaller (or bigger; A380) family has ever developed some synergies and taken off (A350 is replacing the A300 size frame, more quickly than many realized, in orders).

It's a huge stretch to see how any niche smaller model really works, the sole exception, to some extent, being ATR's incorporation into Airbus. Large commercial aircraft families aren't the Brady Bunch. Drat, I can't resist; this is also what makes the Boeing 797 prospect so intriguing, if they can do it and somehow avoid the pitfall of a weird 3rd fuselage thanks to carbon technologies etc. 2 narrow body families is ridiculous.


Apparently, Airbus does have this imagination. ;-)

I can see Airbus next move, create a plane nicely placed as a replacement for the A321 - A332/A333, Airbus answer to the Boeing MoM, an advantage for Airbus, they can have BBD build the CS500 and have a very good product for an A320 replacement, while Boeing will be forced to choose: MoM or a true B737 successor.

Very nicely played, Airbus, very nice indeed, strategy brilliant and very poorly done by the guys from Chicago.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
Devilfish
Posts: 7126
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:46 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
It is worth pointing out that the article quoted in the original post talks specifically about the sale of the Q400 or CRJ programmes, and not the C Series.

It could be that the Q400/CRJ article was just a smoke and mirrors show to divert attention from the real object of the sale...as the CSeries program is the most desirable of the lot. :scratchchin:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
ExMilitaryEng
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 7:12 pm

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:51 am

I wonder how Airbus will market both its A319NEO and the CS300.

I hope differently than the way Boeing marketed the B717...
 
User avatar
Slug71
Posts: 1491
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:08 am

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:45 am

With the C Series out the way,

Do we see a replacement for the Q400 and ATR in the works?
 
User avatar
BoeingVista
Posts: 2060
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:54 am

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:40 am

BoeingVista wrote:
CFM565A1 wrote:
william wrote:
Don’t overlook Boeing as a suitor. Imagine the Boeing sales team pushing the CS.


Nah you’re dreaming in technicolor... BBD will go down with the ship when it comes to the CSeries. If they do sell anything it’ll be the CRJ or Q series possibly but that’s a big if at this point. I wouldn’t even rule them out selling a corporate jet line.


Bombardier discussed a sale of CSeries to Airbus before so I dont see why it would be ruled out now.

1000% if Boeing bought CSeries the trade dispute would suddenly disappear.

CSeries makes a lot of sense for Airbus, kill A319, develop CS500 and target rewinged A322 firmly in the NMA space.


Ha! What do ya know, nailed it :D
BV
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:02 am

So at the end of the day Bombardier didn't sell the entire CSeries program, just allowing a foreign company to take a major stake.

Is Bombardier still looking for a buyer for the Q400 and CRJ lines?

LockheedBBD wrote:
No deal imminent: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-bomba ... SKBN1CL21J

no deal is imminent, people familiar with the matter told Reuters on Monday


As part of that process, the Canadian train-and-plane maker has held informal talks with Chinese companies among others in recent months, but the sources played down the chances of Europe’s Airbus (AIR.PA) being a likely partner.

Bombardier’s talks with Chinese companies are aimed at delivering an investment in the company’s 110 to 130 seat CSeries jets

“Canada would contribute a share of the program, allowing China to access first rate aerospace technology. China would contribute capital and likely place a major order for the aircraft.”




So much for the "people familiar with the matter".
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
User avatar
william
Posts: 3340
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:57 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
So at the end of the day Bombardier didn't sell the entire CSeries program, just allowing a foreign company to take a major stake.

Is Bombardier still looking for a buyer for the Q400 and CRJ lines?

LockheedBBD wrote:
No deal imminent: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-bomba ... SKBN1CL21J

no deal is imminent, people familiar with the matter told Reuters on Monday


As part of that process, the Canadian train-and-plane maker has held informal talks with Chinese companies among others in recent months, but the sources played down the chances of Europe’s Airbus (AIR.PA) being a likely partner.

Bombardier’s talks with Chinese companies are aimed at delivering an investment in the company’s 110 to 130 seat CSeries jets

“Canada would contribute a share of the program, allowing China to access first rate aerospace technology. China would contribute capital and likely place a major order for the aircraft.”




So much for the "people familiar with the matter".


So true, in another article it states BBD and Airbus had been talking since August and the deal had nothing to do with the trade dispute.
 
User avatar
CFM565A1
Posts: 438
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:05 pm

BoeingVista wrote:
BoeingVista wrote:
CFM565A1 wrote:

Nah you’re dreaming in technicolor... BBD will go down with the ship when it comes to the CSeries. If they do sell anything it’ll be the CRJ or Q series possibly but that’s a big if at this point. I wouldn’t even rule them out selling a corporate jet line.


Bombardier discussed a sale of CSeries to Airbus before so I dont see why it would be ruled out now.

1000% if Boeing bought CSeries the trade dispute would suddenly disappear.

CSeries makes a lot of sense for Airbus, kill A319, develop CS500 and target rewinged A322 firmly in the NMA space.


Ha! What do ya know, nailed it :D


Congrats! Hey at least I was partly right when I said Boeing wouldn’t get their hands on it :white:
C172-M/N/P/R/S , PA-28-180, P2006T, PA-34-200T, B1900D, DH8A/C ERJ-145, CRJ-100/200, DH8D, CRJ-700/705/900, E-175/190, A319/320/321, 737-200/300/400/600/700/800/900ER/M8, MD-82/83, 757-200/300, 767-300, A330-300, 787-9, 777-300ER, F28-4000.
 
Dash9
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:40 pm

Bombardier Q400 product line soild? (rumor)

Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:36 pm

​Bombardier SOLD The Q400 Division http://www.fliegerfaust.com/bombardier- ... 01163.html

Obviously only a rumor at this point. Sylvain Faust has been wrong before. He also been right. He definitely has internal sources at BBD.


Until this get confirmed, or not, we can speculate who would have bought the Q400 line and if they intend on moving the FAL.


My take: either Viking which did the same for Dash6, Twin Otter and CL415. Or Turkey that coincidentally have shelved their plan to revive the Do328:
http://atwonline.com/airframes/turkey-s ... 28-revival


-Dash9
 
User avatar
LockheedBBD
Topic Author
Posts: 582
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Bombardier Q400 product line soild? (rumor)

Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:38 pm

Interesting news if true, BBD's commercial exit would be all just confirmed unless they have plans on making a new turboprop in the future.




Edit: if sold to a tiny Turkish company, I wonder how Q400 customers/operators are going to feel about that?
Last edited by LockheedBBD on Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Bombardier Q400 product line soild? (rumor)

Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:41 pm

LockheedBBD wrote:
Interesting news if true, BBD's commercial exit would be all just confirmed unless they have plans on making a new turboprop in the future.


Bombardier still has the CRJ line, which I assume will be more difficult to sell. And it still owns a stake in the CSeries program.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
leghorn
Posts: 1297
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:22 pm

If Q400 is sold then I have no interest in Bombardier and will be selling my shareholding. If I wanted to own a luxury product group I'd be buying LVMH. I'll take my gain and go look for something else to invest in.
 
ytz
Posts: 3529
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:31 am

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:47 pm

We all knew this was coming. BBD just does not have the capital to keep both the Q400 and RJ programs going. I am going to guess they shutter the RJ line in a year. And go back to building biz jets. Maybe in due course, if the CSeries partnership proves financially fruitful, they jump back into the regional market again.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 3615
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:48 pm

2175301 wrote:
I would not rule out Viking... They may actually have a better chance than any Chinese company.

I doubt that either Airbus or Boeing are that interested.

Have a great day,


For the Dash 8 (Viking bought all of the other DHC type certificates and has since restarted production on the Twin Otter), Viking has to be the odds-on favorite, as they already provide support for the Dash-1 to Dash-7 (and also upgrade the Beaver). As for why they would sell...their transportation division is in big trouble, being very late on deliveries to transit agencies in Toronto and New York City.

The CRJ is more interesting, as that is based on a design that first flew in 1978 and was certified in 1980.
 
User avatar
NameOmitted
Posts: 907
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:59 pm

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:06 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
For the Dash 8 (Viking bought all of the other DHC type certificates and has since restarted production on the Twin Otter), Viking has to be the odds-on favorite, as they already provide support for the Dash-1 to Dash-7


A lot of airlines would love for them to do to the DHC-8-300 what they did for the DHC-6.
 
ExMilitaryEng
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 7:12 pm

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:08 pm

The Q400 will probably be sold. Alain Bellemare (today?) said that they still lose money for each Q400 sold. (Same S. Faust link above).

I would say a new FAL in China, Russia or India might save the program.

The Greater Toronto Area has many things going for it, but not so much about affordable aerospace manifacturing.
Last edited by ExMilitaryEng on Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
LockheedBBD
Topic Author
Posts: 582
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:02 am

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/ ... -1.4365849


Rolland Vincent, an aviation consultant who previously worked at Bombardier, believes the transportation company won't spend the large sums required to overhaul the regional aircraft programs as long as oil prices remain low.

"I don't think they make a lot of money on these aircraft so ... as long as oil stays at $50 or thereabouts there's probably a very limited business case for re-engines," he said in an interview.

Vincent believes Bombardier is no longer enamoured with the low-margin parts of its commercial aerospace business and will follow its historical pattern.

Vincent worked on strategy at Bombardier during the period in the 1990s when it shook up the global aviation market by launching small regional jets that spawned new competitors like Brazil's Embraer.

He sees Bombardier eventually selling the Q400 turboprop and CRJ jet programs, possibly to China.

The Chinese could be potential buyers, but they would prefer new technology, especially new generations of engines, added Ernie Arvai, partner in commercial aviation consultancy Air Insight.

He doesn't see a lot of buyers for the regional aircraft. Airbus already owns a large stake in ATR and Boeing has shown no interest in getting into smaller planes.

U.S. scope clauses that limit the size of planes pilots can fly under their union contracts give the CRJ a five-year runway to secure orders, said Arvai.

While the Q400 is "solid," he doubts Bombardier will redesign the CRJ, which will be at the end of its life in about a decade.

"It might be a natural winding down point," he said.

 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:27 am

Rumor has it that China will buy the Q400 line.

What I've been told is that Bombardier is selling the Q400 division in totality to a buyer in China. After the Canadian Federal government asked Bombardier not to sell the CSeries to a Chinese buyer, a program filled with new technologies, something that Ottawa would be ready to leave with is the transfer of the Q400 total ownership to China. With almost all Q400 fuselage already made in China it is not clear for how long Bombardier would be supplying the aircraft cockpit currently made by Bombardier in St-Laurent/Montreal. We should assume that new assembly lines would be installed in China.


http://www.fliegerfaust.com/q400-sold-t ... 91746.html
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
leghorn
Posts: 1297
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:14 am

I'd like them to announce it today near close of business if they are going to do this in which case I'll sell my bombardier shares early next week.
I assume they usually leave these big announcements for a friday evening near month end.
Not going to do anything based on a rumour so I'm doing nothing yet.
 
bigjku
Posts: 1906
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:51 pm

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:50 am

leghorn wrote:
I'd like them to announce it today near close of business if they are going to do this in which case I'll sell my bombardier shares early next week.
I assume they usually leave these big announcements for a friday evening near month end.
Not going to do anything based on a rumour so I'm doing nothing yet.


I think their 3rd quarter numbers are going to be a bloodbath and reveal a company on the verge of collapse. Believe they come out the 2nd. They will want to announce this before then, particularly if it is giving them cash.
 
User avatar
Channex757
Posts: 2414
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:07 am

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:56 am

leghorn wrote:
I'd like them to announce it today near close of business if they are going to do this in which case I'll sell my bombardier shares early next week.
I assume they usually leave these big announcements for a friday evening near month end.
Not going to do anything based on a rumour so I'm doing nothing yet.

Why would you sell stock in a company that has just negotiated a deal to sell off a loss-making part of their business?

I'm sorry....that's just nuts to me. Bombardier will presumably want to concentrate on its rail interests instead, and has now gotten itself out of corners where the losses were building up or lack of capital was causing issues. That's a company fixing its problems.

And you want to SELL....?
 
leghorn
Posts: 1297
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:03 pm

I don't want to be invested in a rail and private jet company. I know nothing about either and have no love for either. Warren Buffet would tell you to invest in what you know.
I invested despite how politicized the company was because I liked the planes. I don't like being in politicized businesses.
I'm happy to take a good profit on my investment now.
 
Dash9
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:40 pm

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:40 pm

leghorn wrote:
I don't want to be invested in a rail and private jet company. I know nothing about either and have no love for either. Warren Buffet would tell you to invest in what you know.
I invested despite how politicized the company was because I liked the planes. I don't like being in politicized businesses.
I'm happy to take a good profit on my investment now.


Well maybe you shouldn't have invested in BBD in the first place. When is the last time their commercial aircraft division turned in more revenue than rail or biz jet? 10 years ago? more?

If you expect a profit from your shares then you bought them +/- in the last two years. Indeed you made a great profit, good for you. But again you should have know that most of their revenue and profits were rail / biz jets, and commercial aircraft was always a money loser.

-Dash9
 
leghorn
Posts: 1297
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:47 pm

At the moment I'm up 25% over 5 months. There are others here on the forum who I guess are up over 100%.
Last edited by leghorn on Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1502
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:56 pm

Dash9 wrote:
leghorn wrote:
I don't want to be invested in a rail and private jet company. I know nothing about either and have no love for either. Warren Buffet would tell you to invest in what you know.
I invested despite how politicized the company was because I liked the planes. I don't like being in politicized businesses.
I'm happy to take a good profit on my investment now.


Well maybe you shouldn't have invested in BBD in the first place. When is the last time their commercial aircraft division turned in more revenue than rail or biz jet? 10 years ago? more?

If you expect a profit from your shares then you bought them +/- in the last two years. Indeed you made a great profit, good for you. But again you should have know that most of their revenue and profits were rail / biz jets, and commercial aircraft was always a money loser.

-Dash9


Unload the thing, get the C-Series cash flow going with Airbus and then revisit the RJ product in 5 years. That gives time to see if scope clauses get tweaked with new contracts and provide better guidance on what to shoot for and offer vs. Embraer and The MRJ. Coming up with a RJ that shares the same DNA(cockpit, ect) as the C-Series would be of a benefit. I'd see Delta liking that for their Regionals.
 
CFRPwingALbody
Posts: 373
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:13 pm

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:24 pm

Sharing the CSeries program with Airbus hasn't improved the financial situation of BBD. AFAIK, BBD has to invest at least 700mln aditionally into the CSeries. (300mln 1th year, & 300mln year 2&3, only above that Airbus invests it's share. Correct?)
CSeries (really nice plane) suffers from PW1500G supply issues, therefore they can't reach their delivery targets. Less deliveries means less cashflow. I think that many CSeries glides cloaking the outfitting hangars, (for some reason BBD doesn't stores glides outside).
Both CRJ and Q400 series have a order book less than 50 planes. CRJ facilities are used for CSeries. Q400 is produced at another location, where also some bizjets are manufactured.
I wouldn't be surprised BBD sells the Q400 to generate cash for the CSeries. At the same time I expect they will close the Q400 location (possiblly temporarily) to lower operational cost. I would like to be proven wrong!

I agree with the CRJ replacement with CSeries avionics, hopefully within 5 years (only possible with a joint venture).
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 4855
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:35 pm

mercure f-wtcc
 
leghorn
Posts: 1297
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:13 pm

http://www.lesailesduquebec.com/?p=4835

this report says insiders are not aware of plans for sale to China.
some other interesting information about outsourcing of components.
 
User avatar
LockheedBBD
Topic Author
Posts: 582
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:06 am

CFRPwingALbody wrote:

I agree with the CRJ replacement with CSeries avionics, hopefully within 5 years (only possible with a joint venture).


I feel like the window for a new CRJ has passed. The Embraer E2 and Mitsubishi MRJ are the new kids on the block. In hindsight, Bombardier would have been better off forging a joint venture with Mitsubishi for the MRJ. It would have made a nice CRJ replacement. Mitsubishi has the funds, and Bombardier could have helped with making the plane lighter using composites (the MRJ is a bit too heavy for US scope). If the US scope clause gets relaxed in the future, all bets are off on a CRJ replacement as the MRJ and E2 Jets will be good enough.

At this point, Bombardier is more likely to eventually exit commercial aviation completely (over the course of 5 years).
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 24641
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:15 pm

CFRPwingALbody wrote:
Sharing the CSeries program with Airbus hasn't improved the financial situation of BBD. AFAIK, BBD has to invest at least 700mln aditionally into the CSeries. (300mln 1th year, & 300mln year 2&3, only above that Airbus invests it's share. Correct?)

My recollection was BBD up to 350mln 1th year, & up to 350mln year 2&3, above that then all partners contribute proportionally.

The announcement said:

At closing, there will be no cash contribution by any of the partners, nor will CSALP assume any financial debt. It also contemplates that Bombardier will continue with its current funding plan of CSALP and will fund, if required, the cash shortfalls of CSALP during the first year following the closing up to a maximum amount of US$350 million, and during the second and third years following the closing up to a maximum aggregate amount of US$350 million over both years, in consideration for non-voting participating shares of CSALP with cumulative annual dividends of 2%, with any excess shortfall during such periods to be shared proportionately amongst Class A shareholders.


After the deal closes, Airbus will be majority share holder and control 4/7 board seats, so it can direct the company's finances pretty much any way it sees fit. If it doesn't want to have to contribute, it can direct the company to scale its spending to achieve that. If it wants to invest more, it can also do that, because we see it comes with "consideration for non-voting participating shares of CSALP with cumulative annual dividends of 2%".

As we know the deal is scheduled to close end 2018 and till then the current arrangement has to carry the load.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
CFRPwingALbody
Posts: 373
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:13 pm

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:56 pm

Thanks for correcting me revelation. My post didn't add up.
The quote from the press release, clarifies the situation.
(Sorry for being lazy, I should have quoted it myself.
 
leghorn
Posts: 1297
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Bombardier exploring sale of aircraft programs

Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:15 pm

https://twitter.com/sylvainfaust/status ... 9691031557

something may be about to happen. return to your seat and fasten your seatbelt

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos