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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:29 pm

hinckley wrote:
What I am hoping is that others here can help me understand whether I'm remembering the two events stated above correctly. Did the plane's beacon stop as it was handed off from one ATC center to another? Did it subsequently follow a flight path with several precise waypoint to waypoint maneuvers along the Malaysian and Thai border?

Thanks for helping me to remember the facts.


1) Not exactly. They signed off from Malaysian airspace... then a few minutes passed... then the aircraft started to turn... Vietnamese ATC only started to ask questions some time later.

2) No. They did not hug the border and they did not follow any waypoints. Please do not get hung up on waypoints - there was a guy on here who went on endlessly about them... right up until the satellite data completely blew that idea out of the water.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
hinckley
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:04 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
2) No. They did not hug the border and they did not follow any waypoints. Please do not get hung up on waypoints - there was a guy on here who went on endlessly about them... right up until the satellite data completely blew that idea out of the water.


I posted because I thought that I may have misunderstood or not kept up with the facts as they were discovered, so thanks for that response. It makes the unfolding theories more understandable. But as a follow-up, do I remember correctly that there some report of those maneuvers, maybe from Thai military radar?
 
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notaxonrotax
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:11 pm

gzm wrote:
Can't you see from the nature of the twenty or so pieces found so far only in Madagascar and Reunion (and nowhere else) that it disintegrated totally?


No, I can`t see that at all.

There have been very few crashes in which an aircraft disintegrated into small pieces.
There were a few, to be fair: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_S ... light_1771

There`s normally a decent bit of wreckage intact though.
See AF447 or Ethiopian 961 for reference.

And there`s very little evidence that MH370 was, in fact; such a high-speed impact crash.
Good chance that the aircraft came down in a bit of a glide slope, having run out of fuel....it`d be foul play or whatever you want to believe.
Nothing points at a maximum power nose-down dive, as far as I`m aware; so why assume that scenario?


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salttee
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:47 am

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
All that flying backwards and forwards seems like far too much bother and is far too weird and noteworthy. If you want to make it look like an accident then that wasn't how to do it.
There was no "flying backwards and forwards"; that appears an attempt at obfuscation. The plane reversed course at FIS boundary after signing out of Malaysia ATC and never reporting in to Vietnamese ATC. This gave the flight a two hour window before it could be reported officially missing and a search begun. Had the flight continued on its northerly course, Vietnamese radar would have found it; by turning around, the Vietnamese were kept in the dark. It soon was seen by Thai radar to have been approaching the Malaysian mainland. Within the first hours of the reported disappearance, Malaysian military radar (Pulau Penang) personnel issued information to journalists that it had been observed to have reduced its altitude as it re-entered Malaysian airspace, The source for this information was squelched after the politicians took over the "investigation" and installed a news blackout that continues to this day.

It is easy to surmise that 9MMRO got low so that it was blanketed from the Thai radar at Hat Yai (6°50'38.02"N 100°25'11.64"E) by high ground between Hat Yai and the flight path as it crossed Thai airspace. After it entered the Malacca straits, it made a turn to the northwest until it could turn to the Southern Ocean, this path prevented it from entering Indonesian airspace and raising any alert there.

If one wanted to fly from the vicinity of the IGARI waypoint to the southern ocean without raising an alert from anybody other than the Malaysian radar at Pulau Penang, this was a precise course; it certainly wasn't flying "backwards and forwards". It is worthy to note that the Captain had spent 20 years in the Malaysian Air force and knew the practices and capabilities of all Malaysian radar, he probably knew who the duty officer was supposed to be on that night at Pulau Penang. It should be obvious that there was no intention to "make it look like an accident", the intent was to make it disappear off the face of the Earth, and that would have been achieved were it not for the satellite data.

buzzard302 wrote:
The baffling thing is that if it were done on purpose, no reasoning was left behind to explain the motivation. If it was political, suicide, hijack, etc. Usually the perpetrator would make some statement to show their motivation. Why make a plane disappear so that no one knows why?
There is every reason to think the motive was political. A friend of the pilot had just had his political career ended and his five year prison sentence reaffirmed just hours before the takeoff. The "disappearance" of MH 370 was most likely intended to open up a can of worms that never got opened.

hinckley wrote:
I REALLY do not want to start another conversation about what happened to MH370.
You're not starting a conversation about MH 370, but you have entered the conversation just as the people who want to sweep it under the rug are making a play at presenting a revised synopsis of the main thread.

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
Please do not get hung up on waypoints - there was a guy on here who went on endlessly about them... right up until the satellite data completely blew that idea out of the water.
That isn't how I remember the conversation went.
And who was "this guy"?? :)
 
hinckley
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:20 am

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
No. They did not hug the border and they did not follow any waypoints. Please do not get hung up on waypoints - there was a guy on here who went on endlessly about them... right up until the satellite data completely blew that idea out of the water.


salttee wrote:
After it entered the Malacca straits, it made a turn to the northwest until it could turn to the Southern Ocean, this path prevented it from entering Indonesian airspace and raising any alert there.


salttee seems to be stating what I remember reading about the maneuvers in the Malacca Straights. SomebodyInTLS seems to be stating that there was satellite data that disproved those maneuvers happened. SomebodyInTLS, can you provide more info on the satellite data? Thanks.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:13 pm

hinckley wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
No. They did not hug the border and they did not follow any waypoints. Please do not get hung up on waypoints - there was a guy on here who went on endlessly about them... right up until the satellite data completely blew that idea out of the water.


salttee wrote:
After it entered the Malacca straits, it made a turn to the northwest until it could turn to the Southern Ocean, this path prevented it from entering Indonesian airspace and raising any alert there.


salttee seems to be stating what I remember reading about the maneuvers in the Malacca Straights. SomebodyInTLS seems to be stating that there was satellite data that disproved those maneuvers happened. SomebodyInTLS, can you provide more info on the satellite data? Thanks.


This, plus the initial turn which took it back over the peninsula, is the backwards and forwards I was referring to. (Seems obvious to me that that's what I meant.)

There's lots and lots of data about all this on the Malaysian and Australian websites:
http://mh370.mot.gov.my
https://www.atsb.gov.au/mh370

A map from the "Factual Information" file shows that the aircraft turned straight to Penang (to land?), passed over and headed straight out to sea. I would have attached it here but you can't do that on this forum (stupid!).

Ah... courtesy of theaviationist.com:

Image

And they *didn't* avoid "raising the alert" since this path is known through... radar tracking! (From at least Malaysian and Indonesian stations, possibly more which weren't made public.) So that "motivation" is a red herring.

Another map from the Inmarsat "The Search for MH370" (under fact sheets on the ATSB site) shows that shortly after passing over Penang a final turn was made and the aircraft flew more or less a straight line(*) from then until impact.

Image

(*) N.B. the Inmarsat data is a series of points with some uncertainty error, so the flight path could have deviated slightly from the slight curve passing through them - however the flight path would have had to have been more or less as illustrated in order to hit those points without wildly fluctuating airspeed. The uncertainty of the data means the path may have curved slightly to East or West, hence the effort to determine the final impact point.

So in summary: that's a lot of straight flying with a sum total of just 3 interventions.

The guy who tried to fit this to waypoints was Warren Platts IIRC.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:43 pm

While remaining open to conclusions, I could see several non-suicide scenarios. E.g. something goes wrong (fire, etc.) where the initial contact is lost, leading to loss of communication and the initial turn to try landing in Penang; but whether through systems failure, hypoxia, fights among crew members or whatever, they are unable to land, turn out to sea (to buy time?) make a final attempt to turn back but are overcome... then its autopilot the rest of the way.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
M564038
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:44 pm

Saltee, you are full of it. Vague political motives, as if he was some kind of extremist. He wasn’t.


Might I just remind everyone what the last social media activities of the captain was? He was exactly the OPPOSITE of any kind of radical, crazy-person ready to kill a bunch of people. It doesn’t get much more healthy than this:

(Edit: Is it really not possible to add photos to a post on this forum? Wow. Sems strange for a photography site.
Guess you will just have to take my word for it:)

The last stuff he subscribed to on you tube was a Richard Dawkins channel, an eddie izzard channel, he watched a video on fun family pranks and he also liked a video on how to repaint the PMDG 777.

Doesn’t exactly scream extremist terror, does it?
 
salttee
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:57 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
This, plus the initial turn which took it back over the peninsula, is the backwards and forwards I was referring to. (Seems obvious to me that that's what I meant.)
What "plus the initial turn"? Exactly what are you trying to say? I described the known flight path above, there was no "backwards and forwards"
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
There's lots and lots of data about all this on the Malaysian and Australian websites:
http://mh370.mot.gov.my
https://www.atsb.gov.au/mh370
We don't need generalizations, all of this was (repeatedly) covered in detail at this site. Nobody needs to start from scratch.

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
A map from the "Factual Information" file shows that the aircraft turned straight to Penang (to land?), passed over and headed straight out to sea. I would have attached it here but you can't do that on this forum (stupid!).
The exact flight path from turnaround to the Malacca Straits is unknown because the Malaysian government (still) won't release the tapes of the radar return from Pulau Pinang.

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
And they *didn't* avoid "raising the alert" since this path is known through... radar tracking! (From at least Malaysian and Indonesian stations, possibly more which weren't made public.) So that "motivation" is a red herring.
Where I mentioned "avoid raising the alert" was in reference to its path which avoided Indonesian airspace. No doubt Indonesia tracked the flight but since it never entered their territory they are exercising diplomatic courtesy by not sticking their nose into Malaysian business by making their radar information available to the public. Indonesian radar at Lhokseumawe would have seen the bulk of the Malacca Strait flight leg.

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
Another map from the Inmarsat "The Search for MH370" (under fact sheets on the ATSB site) shows that shortly after passing over Penang a final turn was made and the aircraft flew more or less a straight line(*) from then until impact.
The first salient indication from Inmarsat occurred with the 10:28 ping ring and at that time the plane was over three hundred miles west of Penang. Inmarsat provided no information about the portion of the flight in the vicinity of Penang.

Why are you throwing up misinformation?

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
So in summary: that's a lot of straight flying with a sum total of just 3 interventions.
So no more backwards and forwards?

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
The guy who tried to fit this to waypoints was Warren Platts IIRC.
Platts left the discussion very early on, either before or not long after the Inmarsat data had been released to the world. He came back much later for a few posts but he was absent through the bulk of the sorting out of probable flight paths. The only waypoint he would have mentioned was IGARI afik.

M564038 wrote:
Saltee, you are full of it. Vague political motives, as if he was some kind of extremist. He wasn’t.
He left a long trail (hundreds of posts) on facebook expressing extreme political views. This was discussed repeatedly in the a.net threads.
 
hinckley
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:27 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
Ah... courtesy of theaviationist.com:

Image

And they *didn't* avoid "raising the alert" since this path is known through... radar tracking! (From at least Malaysian and Indonesian stations, possibly more which weren't made public.) So that "motivation" is a red herring.

Another map from the Inmarsat "The Search for MH370" (under fact sheets on the ATSB site) shows that shortly after passing over Penang a final turn was made and the aircraft flew more or less a straight line(*) from then until impact.

Image

(*) N.B. the Inmarsat data is a series of points with some uncertainty error, so the flight path could have deviated slightly from the slight curve passing through them - however the flight path would have had to have been more or less as illustrated in order to hit those points without wildly fluctuating airspeed. The uncertainty of the data means the path may have curved slightly to East or West, hence the effort to determine the final impact point.

So in summary: that's a lot of straight flying with a sum total of just 3 interventions.

The guy who tried to fit this to waypoints was Warren Platts IIRC.


Trying to stick with what we think are facts . . . aren't the two data points that you reference contradictory? The aviationist.com radar map shows a turn to the northwest after MH370 flew over Penang. If we are to believe the Inmarsat data, either we'd need to believe that there was a subsequent turn bringing the flight path south over the Indian/Southern Ocean, or we'd need to believe that the radar data is incorrect and the plane made one subsequent turn after Penang bringing the flight path south. Again, I'm only trying to gleen what we know, and I understand that what we (think we) know may be contradictory.
 
gzm
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:08 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
2) No. They did not hug the border and they did not follow any waypoints. Please do not get hung up on waypoints - there was a guy on here who went on endlessly about them... right up until the satellite data completely blew that idea out of the water.

That guy was "tailskid". He had studied everything and proposed a completely researched theory and had a reply for every objection and different opinion and could refute every argument. Nevertheless all that came apart but how sure he was! That should make us think twice about some facts we take for granted in this case...
 
salttee
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:32 pm

gzm wrote:
Nevertheless all that came apart but how sure he was!

Please explain.
 
salttee
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:45 pm

hinckley wrote:
Trying to stick with what we think are facts . . . aren't the two data points that you reference contradictory? The aviationist.com radar map shows a turn to the northwest after MH370 flew over Penang. If we are to believe the Inmarsat data, either we'd need to believe that there was a subsequent turn bringing the flight path south over the Indian/Southern Ocean, or we'd need to believe that the radar data is incorrect and the plane made one subsequent turn after Penang bringing the flight path south. Again, I'm only trying to gleen what we know, and I understand that what we (think we) know may be contradictory.
That chart is correct as far as it goes; the flight path ends there because that chart only shows the radar track and the radar track ended at that point when the flight went out of range of the radar, but the flight continued on. As it happened, the flight dropped off the radar at 18:22 (Zulu) and the first Inmarsat ping ring came only six minutes later at 18:28z. The next ping occurred 51 minutes later at 19:41z when there was an attempted telephony call to the plane. At that time the plane had already rounded the Indonesian landmass and was headed south. All other pings occurred at hourly intervals.
 
salttee
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:16 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
salttee wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
This, plus the initial turn which took it back over the peninsula, is the backwards and forwards I was referring to. (Seems obvious to me that that's what I meant.)
What "plus the initial turn"? Exactly what are you trying to say? I described the known flight path above, there was no "backwards and forwards"


If you want to deliberately misunderstand common English then I will not engage any further.
I really can't understand what you're trying to say.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:17 pm

salttee wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
This, plus the initial turn which took it back over the peninsula, is the backwards and forwards I was referring to. (Seems obvious to me that that's what I meant.)
What "plus the initial turn"? Exactly what are you trying to say? I described the known flight path above, there was no "backwards and forwards"


If you want to deliberately misunderstand common English then I will not engage any further.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:24 pm

hinckley wrote:
Trying to stick with what we think are facts . . . aren't the two data points that you reference contradictory? The aviationist.com radar map shows a turn to the northwest after MH370 flew over Penang. If we are to believe the Inmarsat data, either we'd need to believe that there was a subsequent turn bringing the flight path south over the Indian/Southern Ocean, or we'd need to believe that the radar data is incorrect and the plane made one subsequent turn after Penang bringing the flight path south. Again, I'm only trying to gleen what we know, and I understand that what we (think we) know may be contradictory.


3 turns:
  1. initial left turn from NNE to WSW (radar map)
  2. turn over Penang to WNW (radar map)
  3. final turn to S near IGOGU (Inmarsat map)

I don't see why you think that "the plane made one subsequent turn after Penang bringing the flight path south" is a contradiction with "there was a subsequent turn bringing the flight path south over the Indian/Southern Ocean". Those statements are the same thing and are turn 3 in my list.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
hinckley
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:28 pm

salttee wrote:
That chart is correct as far as it goes; the flight path ends there because that chart only shows the radar track and the radar track ended at that point when the flight went out of range of the radar, but the flight continued on. As it happened, the flight dropped off the radar at 18:22 (Zulu) and the first Inmarsat ping ring came only six minutes later at 18:28z. The next ping occurred 51 minutes later at 19:41z when there was an attempted telephony call to the plane. At that time the plane had already rounded the Indonesian landmass and was headed south. All other pings occurred at hourly intervals.


That all makes sense to me. And although there may not have been precise waypoint-to-waypoint maneuvers, to me, that track cannot be the result of anything other than a plane under a pilot's control, or possibly an autopilot specifically programmed for such a track. So I've come full circle, maintaining my belief that the events are too coincidental to point to anything other than a rouge pilot. And even if it's unlikely that that will ever be proved, it's even more unlikely we'll ever know the pilot's motives. And really what does it matter? The motives meant little or nothing in the Silk Air, Germanwings or EgyptAir crashes.
 
hinckley
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:30 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
3 turns:
  1. initial left turn from NNE to WSW (radar map)
  2. turn over Penang to WNW (radar map)
  3. final turn to S near IGOGU (Inmarsat map)

I don't see why you think that "the plane made one subsequent turn after Penang bringing the flight path south" is a contradiction with "there was a subsequent turn bringing the flight path south over the Indian/Southern Ocean". Those statements are the same thing and are turn 3 in my list.


We are saying the same thing. You've said it more precisely. Thanks.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:31 pm

salttee wrote:
]I really can't understand what you're trying to say.


Very well. You said "After it entered the Malacca straits, it made a turn to the northwest until it could turn to the Southern Ocean, this path prevented it from entering Indonesian airspace and raising any alert there." (my turns 2 & 3).

Then I said "This, plus the initial turn which took it back over the peninsula, is the backwards and forwards I was referring to." (since you skipped turn 1 in your description).

If you take the radar map and add the turn south it looks pretty "backwards and forwards" in my opinion. Not literally 180 degrees, but before heading South of ISBIX on the Inmarsat map they'd managed to do a lot of zig-zagging without actually getting very far from KL.
Last edited by SomebodyInTLS on Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
ILNFlyer
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:39 pm

In any event, I hope they are able to locate the aircraft and bring some sense of closure to the families. This is a tragedy no matter how you slice it.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:16 am

I honestly don't get why more aren't simply offering help in the search for the sake of further developing seafloor mapping technology.
 
buzzard302
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:09 am

Jouhou wrote:
I honestly don't get why more aren't simply offering help in the search for the sake of further developing seafloor mapping technology.


Cost. It is ultra expensive to run a research vessel and specialized equipment, especially as far out as the search area is. Not many people want to do it for free.
 
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:26 am

Very little attention has been paid to the fact that Seabed Constructor has blasted through the Broken Ridge area of steep, craggy terrain while scarcely breaking stride. This is a testament to the capability of its AUV technology. It also rules out an idea that has been promoted by certain MH370 theorists, to the effect that the captain abducted the plane and headed for Broken Ridge in the hope that the wreckage would never be found there. That idea can now be scratched off the fast-dwindling list of possibilities.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
salttee
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:47 am

stasisLAX wrote:
It also rules out an idea that has been promoted by certain MH370 theorists, to the effect that the captain abducted the plane and headed for Broken Ridge in the hope that the wreckage would never be found there.
You're assertion above is essentially a strawman. You're shooting down a creation of your own imagination. True, there are many who believe that the Captain intentionally diverted the course and flew the plane to the Southern Ocean; however, not finding the plane at Broken Ridge proves (or indicates) nothing as far as that theory goes.

It is also true that probably at least one person has proposed a theory that Capt. Zaharie may have wanted to send the plane to it's grave somewhere along Broken Ridge, but that was just speculation about one facet of the total story. Nobody's belief about MH-370 hinged on speculation about that isolated detail. If you think it was a big deal to somebody, please provide a link.

But bundling those two disparate things together is just your imagination.

stasisLAX wrote:
That idea can now be scratched off the fast-dwindling list of possibilities.
Congratulations, with that, you too are now an MH370 theorist! (even though "that idea" was never on any list other that your own).

Why are you presenting such linguistic contortions?
 
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notaxonrotax
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:38 am

buzzard302 wrote:
Not many people want to do it for free.


I would donate my professional time.....
But yes, not many others would.

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rlwynn
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:47 am

Your time yes, but what about your ship and the hundreds of thousands of Liters of fuel?
I can drive faster than you
 
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PW100
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:36 pm

salttee wrote:
It is also true that probably at least one person has proposed a theory that Capt. Zaharie may have wanted to send the plane to it's grave somewhere along Broken Ridge, but that was just speculation about one facet of the total story. Nobody's belief about MH-370 hinged on speculation about that isolated detail.


OK. That was the only part that was just speculation. The rest of that story was fully fact based. Right.
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
salttee
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:14 pm

There is a lot of evidence supporting the premise that control of the plane was taken over by someone and that Captain Zaharie is that someone. But there is no actual evidence that the plane was flown to Broken Ridge; that is unsupported speculation.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Thu May 03, 2018 8:57 pm

No news about MH370 but at least they found two shipwrecks: http://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft ... 72262.html
 
smokeybandit
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Thu May 03, 2018 9:03 pm

Two 19th century coal ships
 
747megatop
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Thu May 03, 2018 10:46 pm

N14AZ wrote:
No news about MH370 but at least they found two shipwrecks: http://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft ... 72262.html

I wish i could read (German?). Couldn't find a "translate" button on the article.
 
smokeybandit
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Thu May 03, 2018 11:25 pm

Just google "Mh370 shipwreck"

Plenty of english articles
 
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N14AZ
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sun May 06, 2018 8:42 am

747megatop wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
No news about MH370 but at least they found two shipwrecks: http://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft ... 72262.html

I wish i could read (German?). Couldn't find a "translate" button on the article.

Here is a similar article in English: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... -mysteries
Image

I guess if they don't find MH370 with this search they will find it in a similar way as these shipwrecks have been found now...
 
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777Jet
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sun May 06, 2018 8:54 am

N14AZ wrote:
I guess if they don't find MH370 with this search they will find it in a similar way as these shipwrecks have been found now...


I still doubt that MH370 will be found.
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N14AZ
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sun May 06, 2018 12:14 pm

I just wanted to check the latest status of the search and how much area remains but it seems the official webpage is down: http://mh370.gov.my/

As far as I know they are now searching the final most northern part of the search area:

Image
 
buzzard302
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sun May 06, 2018 2:06 pm

777Jet wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
I guess if they don't find MH370 with this search they will find it in a similar way as these shipwrecks have been found now...


I still doubt that MH370 will be found.


I am beginning to feel the same. I was hopeful for a very long time. It's a needle in a haystack and there is just too much unknown on where to even precisely search.
 
ltbewr
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sun May 06, 2018 3:33 pm

There are necessary political, cultural and practical needs to find out what happened to MH370 and to try to continue its search.

Many of those souls lost on MH370 were Chinese nationals, so there is political pressure on the Malaysian government to find the plane and if possible why the passengers ended up dead. In some Asian cultures, without the body, there can be no real closure on their death. Then of course, there is the practical, to find out what happened to reduce the risk of a similar event in the future, a top goal of the investigations of aircraft crashes and losses.

It seems to most that the flight path of MH370 was either a deliberate act or a strange mechanical issue including depressurization. We want to all find out why and how it happened. Let us hope the remaining round of searching does lead to finding major parts of the remains of MH370, hopefully the FDR, CVR even some person's computers or smartphones to hopefully give use some answers.
 
salttee
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sun May 06, 2018 5:12 pm

ltbewr wrote:
or a strange mechanical issue including depressurization.

Only applied ignorance of the facts could bring anyone to that conclusion.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sun May 06, 2018 8:44 pm

ltbewr wrote:
There are necessary political, cultural and practical needs to find out what happened to MH370 and to try to continue its search.

Many of those souls lost on MH370 were Chinese nationals, so there is political pressure on the Malaysian government to find the plane and if possible why the passengers ended up dead. In some Asian cultures, without the body, there can be no real closure on their death. Then of course, there is the practical, to find out what happened to reduce the risk of a similar event in the future, a top goal of the investigations of aircraft crashes and losses.

It seems to most that the flight path of MH370 was either a deliberate act or a strange mechanical issue including depressurization. We want to all find out why and how it happened. Let us hope the remaining round of searching does lead to finding major parts of the remains of MH370, hopefully the FDR, CVR even some person's computers or smartphones to hopefully give use some answers.


Wasn't the official theory that a fire broke out, and that may have been related to the flights cargo of lithium ion batteries? I still buy that theory.
 
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PW100
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sun May 06, 2018 9:17 pm

salttee wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
or a strange mechanical issue including depressurization.

Only applied ignorance of the facts could bring anyone to that conclusion.

And some don't need facts to arrive at a conclusion.
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DDR
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sun May 06, 2018 9:38 pm

What I find scary about this whole episode is that it seems possible that, in this century, an aircraft can experience an in flight mechanical issue which causes it to disappear without a trace. I'm almost hoping that this was caused by a rouge pilot rather than a mechanical issue. I keep hoping that the passengers and crew didn't suffer for long.
 
rj777
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sun May 06, 2018 9:50 pm

Didn't I read somewhere that this new search was going to end next month?
 
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777Jet
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sun May 06, 2018 10:22 pm

buzzard302 wrote:
777Jet wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
I guess if they don't find MH370 with this search they will find it in a similar way as these shipwrecks have been found now...


I still doubt that MH370 will be found.


I am beginning to feel the same. I was hopeful for a very long time. It's a needle in a haystack and there is just too much unknown on where to even precisely search.


They still don't even know what farm the haystack is in.

I still maintain that coming up with these most likely search areas has been an educated guess from the beginning, an educated guess still resulting in no 9M-MRO seafloor wreckage being found despite the increased confidence of those coming up with the area.

The plane was turned around from the direction it was supposed to be heading and flew for hours. New methodologies (Inmarsat calculations) narrowing down the more probable area to just an arc in one hemisphere have been used, flight range without other precise numbers (exact fuel quantity, engine performance, speed, altitude, wind...) have been estimated, current charts have been used... Seriously, what a mess this is - that so many souls onboard a state of the art plane could be missing in this day and age for so long with so little info to help calculate their whereabouts...

Whoever is responsible for the disappearance might never have even expected that the plane might never be found or remain missing for so long (even with the ping trail whether or not they knew about that)...

One positive; any day now we could get news that a wreckage site has been located...

ltbewr wrote:
Many of those souls lost on MH370 were Chinese nationals, so there is political pressure on the Malaysian government to find the plane and if possible why the passengers ended up dead.


I thought exactly the same but when I spoke to 11 Chinese colleagues about this reason you just mentioned they said the government there wouldn't care given the population there. That reply was instantaneous and all of them agreed. Sad if true, but we have never heard too much at all out of that country about this...

rj777 wrote:
Didn't I read somewhere that this new search was going to end next month?


The sea conditions in the search area are getting worse day by day now as the Southern Hemisphere winter is upon us...
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salttee
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Mon May 07, 2018 12:23 am

Jouhou wrote:
Wasn't the official theory that a fire broke out, and that may have been related to the flights cargo of lithium ion batteries? I still buy that theory.
Who are the "officials" you are referring to? You are just spreading unfounded rumors here. Please don't do that.
Have you read any of the original MH-370 threads' discussions to find out why fire has been dismissed by all the knowledgeable people as possible explanation for MH-370's turnaround and subsequent flight path?

777Jet wrote:
I still maintain that coming up with these most likely search areas has been an educated guess from the beginning, an educated guess still resulting in no 9M-MRO seafloor wreckage being found despite the increased confidence of those coming up with the area.
But these days you are accepting the Inmarsat data to be valid: right?

DDR wrote:
it seems possible that, in this century, an aircraft can experience an in flight mechanical issue which causes it to disappear without a trace
Tell us what kind of mechanical issue could have caused MH-370 to turn around at FIS boundary after acknowledging FIS turnover from Malaysia but before reporting in to Vietnam, and turn off it's sat communications, soar to 45,000 feet, then reduce altitude while it skirted the Thai / Malysian border until it reached the Malacca Straights then turn west and fly to the western tip of Sumatra where it then made another near 180° turn south, without crossing the FIS boundary into Indonesian airspace, then proceed into the Indian ocean while turning its sat communication gear back on and from there continuing on south until fuel exhaustion.

You're still denying the obvious DDR, why are you doing that?

PW100 wrote:
And some don't need facts to arrive at a conclusion.
Please explain, who are you referring to?
 
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Gonzalo
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Mon May 07, 2018 1:57 am

Apparently some people is not capable to accept the fact that pilots are humans and can have a dark side. All the changes of direction, altitude, comms, are indicative of a deliberated action inside the cockpit to put the aircraft vanishing in the indian ocean, as a frequent flyer I don’t like to think a pilot could take actions like this, but you can not be blinded by your emotions or fears.
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777Jet
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Tue May 08, 2018 1:59 am

salttee wrote:
777Jet wrote:
I still maintain that coming up with these most likely search areas has been an educated guess from the beginning, an educated guess still resulting in no 9M-MRO seafloor wreckage being found despite the increased confidence of those coming up with the area.
But these days you are accepting the Inmarsat data to be valid: right?


I have always accepted that Inmarsat had good intentions from the beginning and that they did not 'spoof' any data. Despite this, I have always had my doubts about the effectiveness of the different methodologies used to try and pin point the crash site given all of the important unknowns. Still, no wreckage site has been found despite all of the number crunching and revised number crunching and confidence...

Gonzalo wrote:
Apparently some people is not capable to accept the fact that pilots are humans and can have a dark side.


That is the case with quite a few regarding this matter despite the likes of Andreas Lubitz, Gameel Al-Batouti, Tsu Way Ming, Seiji Katagiri, Auburn Calloway...
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salttee
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Tue May 08, 2018 3:53 am

777Jet wrote:
I have always accepted that Inmarsat had good intentions from the beginning and that they did not 'spoof' any data. Despite this, I have always had my doubts about the effectiveness of the different methodologies used to try and pin point the crash site given all of the important unknowns. Still, no wreckage site has been found despite all of the number crunching and revised number crunching and confidence...


Part 69 post #186 of the MH-370 thread:
777Jet wrote:
My posts from the first day Inmarsat was mentioned was that the data could be wrong either mistakenly or intentionally and I even suggested that Inmarsat could be 'in on it' for whatever reason so I don't take anything that Inmarsat says too seriously...


Why don't you just stick to spyhunter's thread?
 
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777Jet
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Tue May 08, 2018 4:06 am

salttee wrote:
777Jet wrote:
I have always accepted that Inmarsat had good intentions from the beginning and that they did not 'spoof' any data. Despite this, I have always had my doubts about the effectiveness of the different methodologies used to try and pin point the crash site given all of the important unknowns. Still, no wreckage site has been found despite all of the number crunching and revised number crunching and confidence...


Part 69 post #186 of the MH-370 thread:
777Jet wrote:
My posts from the first day Inmarsat was mentioned was that the data could be wrong either mistakenly or intentionally and I even suggested that Inmarsat could be 'in on it' for whatever reason so I don't take anything that Inmarsat says too seriously...


That was way too easy! You took the bait so quickly :D

So then tell me, why do you think the plane has not yet been found?

You don't have a clue. That is why.

With you, just like with Tailskid, you have solved the mystery 100% - so why do you keep bothering trying to convince others?
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salttee
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Tue May 08, 2018 4:11 am

777Jet wrote:
That was way too easy! You took the bait so quickly

You sure have no shortage of audacity.
 
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777Jet
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Tue May 08, 2018 4:22 am

salttee wrote:
777Jet wrote:
That was way too easy! You took the bait so quickly

You sure have no shortage of audacity.


Thank you.

I see you avoided my question: "So then tell me, why do you think the plane has not yet been found?"

I commend you on your dedication to MH370 and on your ability to find information from the old MH370 threads so quickly! I thought that I was one of the most dedicated people to the MH370 mystery but you are clearly the winner! :D
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