77H
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Re: Island Air files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy

Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:05 am

Bobloblaw wrote:
77H wrote:
RushmoreAir wrote:
... and they're finished. RIP Island Air

"Island Air tells employees it will halt service Friday"
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/3680 ... ice-friday


Best of luck to all the staff at WP! It is heartbreaking to see so many people out of work.

It will be interesting to see how MW responds in the coming months. Given the success of their current operation and the strength of the Company's Leadership Team I would expect MW to take advantage of this unfortunate loss. Perhaps an order of newer ATR42's for trunk routes? Perhaps even CR7's or E-Jets 2.0?

Could also be a chance for AS or UA to move in with Regional Jets and solidify their presence prior to WN's entrance in to the Mainland-Hawaii Market. Rumors have been swirling that they may be looking at inter island routes.

77H


MW should respond by doing nothing. Flying CR7s or E-jets would put them in bankruptcy.


Not saying you're wrong but what are you basing your assertion on ?
 
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usxguy
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Re: Island Air files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy

Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:18 am

Mokulele just added PC-12s to their certificate to operate flights into Lanai. I highly doubt they will do anything to replace WP. The Caravans and PC-12s need about $125/ish a head, PLUS taxes, to make HNL/LIH or HNL/OGG work with their planes. Even though its about an hour on MW from HNL to OGG on the Caravan, people won't book it because they have to price higher than Hawaiian (despite MW's time advantage when you consider TSA, bag claim, time to board, deplane, etc). That's why the JRF experiment didn't pan out.
xx
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Island Air files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy

Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:24 am

Meh, let natural selection do its thing.
Clearly, something was very wrong at Island Air with the company losing money every quarter for 4+ years as industry enjoys record earnings.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
F9Animal
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Re: Island Air files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy

Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:24 am

It's true. Last day of operation is tomorrow!!! :(
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
F9Animal
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Re: Island Air files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy

Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:28 am

I am so so so deeply saddened for the employees. We lost a family member today folks. Crushed. :(
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Island Air files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy

Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:45 pm

Three different stories on the end of WP in today's HNN.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/

One story in HSA.
http://www.staradvertiser.com/2017/11/0 ... ce-friday/

HA is honoring WP tix and reservations for one week on a standby basis .... spirit of Aloha is alive (pun?). Standby is better than no option.

Judge Farris' comment in Wednesday's (this week) hearing that he was troubled about WP's financial condition translates to "if you can't pay the a/c leases I'll lift the stay" (permitting lessors to repossess the a/c).

Root cause of business failure after 37 years of ops.... wrong match of a/c to network. WP could have survived if it had competed against MW, thus my handle, using short-field capable twin turbos. The irony is that HA created Ohana to counter WP, and successfully did so with the right plane and network.

As LAXIntl opined... the airline business is Darwinian, certainly when there are no subsidies skewing the playing field.
 
Metjetceo
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Island Air Ceases Operations 11/10

Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:23 pm

Per their Facebook Page Island Air is ceasing operations at the end of November 10.

Sad to see them go. I loved their Dash 8s (when they had them) and thought they did a great job catering to the locals.
 
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SQ789
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Re: Island Air Ceases Operations 11/10

Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:23 pm

Sad to see this, even many other airline such as Air Berlin, Monarch and few others already Ceased operations just before Island Air does.
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
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SQ789
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Re: Island Air files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy

Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:30 pm

F9Animal wrote:
I am so so so deeply saddened for the employees. We lost a family member today folks. Crushed. :(

I know this, when I pass through FB, there is a lot of news saying that Island Air has ceased operations beginning today and will left 100 employees and all their customers who are flying today stranded as the airline no longer flies anymore after today.
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
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Jawaiiansky66
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Re: Island Air Ceases Operations 11/10

Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:06 pm

They were a real OHANA organization...everyone was close and worked hard to make the airline work. RIP.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Island Air Ceases Operations 11/10

Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:45 pm

Sad to hear. I wonder who, if anyone, will give inter-Island a go now? If Horizon had their stuff together I could see them trying it out with AS and AA code-shares but of course that's not in the cards anytime soon. There were some rumblings recently about WN doing some inter-Island but that seems like a long shot.
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
azjubilee
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Re: Island Air Ceases Operations 11/10

Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:00 pm

As unfortunate as this is, WP had a very small part of the market. There isn't this huge vacuum to fill, like there was when Aloha shut down. I can't imagine other carriers tripping over themselves to fill This void.
 
jimbo737
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Re: Island Air Ceases Operations 11/10

Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:01 pm

This is no surprise to anyone who’s ever taken a peak under the hood.

Frankly, it’s amazing it lasted as long as it did.

Had they had the latitude and the vision to do what needed to be done, it could have been a very successful niche carrier.

Hawaii for Hawaiians. Sometimes it makes sense, sometimes it doesn’t.
 
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mercure1
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Re: Island Air files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy

Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:11 pm

It seems Hawaii is not large enough to support meaningful secondary players.

Though I did think something was very strange with this airline with its switch from economic ATRs to more expensive Q400s to be used on such short hops.
mercure f-wtcc
 
DaveFly
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Re: Island Air Ceases Operations 11/10

Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:15 pm

Sad news. I flew them a few years back on the Dash-8. The takeoff from JHM is a very interesting experience. Here’s my YouTube clip:

https://youtu.be/R2EJfvyVpl0
717,727,737,747,757,767,777,787
L1011,DC8,DC9,DC10,MD80/90
A300,A319,320,321,330,340,
CRJ,E135/45/190,
DH8,Avro85,DHBeaver,AstarHelo,F100,ATR42
 
JBoy
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Re: Island Air files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy

Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:51 pm

Bazooka wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
I hate the LCC seats in HA's "new 712" cabin, and began flying WP more. The Q cabin is quieter, and HNL/OGG is just a few minutes longer.

Yes! More seats, more crammed inside the cabin, and more expensive flights! No room for carry on's because nobody wants to pay $25 to check your bag in. $25 fee for bags inter-island and $25 for bags to the U.S. mainland...SHEESH! Rip off the locals!


Why is it just ripping off the locals? Let's just say I live in ATL, I am a local but Delta doesn't give me free bags. It is no different.
 
azjubilee
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Re: Island Air files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy

Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:14 pm

JBoy wrote:
Bazooka wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
I hate the LCC seats in HA's "new 712" cabin, and began flying WP more. The Q cabin is quieter, and HNL/OGG is just a few minutes longer.

Yes! More seats, more crammed inside the cabin, and more expensive flights! No room for carry on's because nobody wants to pay $25 to check your bag in. $25 fee for bags inter-island and $25 for bags to the U.S. mainland...SHEESH! Rip off the locals!


Why is it just ripping off the locals? Let's just say I live in ATL, I am a local but Delta doesn't give me free bags. It is no different.


Bazooka is a trolling flame thrower who posts misinformed and inaccurate comments. Don't bother engaging.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: Updated: Island Air to Cease Operations

Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:08 pm

I feel like WP never quite figured out what they wanted to be after Aloha Air Group sold them off. They wanted to replace Aloha as a full blown competitor to Hawaiian, but lacked a big enough fleet to build a competitive schedule. They also developed a reputation for being unreliable as the Dash 8-100s got close to the end of their life, and the early ATR72s were old and problematic as well. I don't know if their reputation or operation ever really recovered from that period.

Ellison seemed to try to focus on serving his resorts in LNY, but the ATR72 seems like too big an airplane to effectively serve the smaller destinations.

Hawaiian runs a bigger interisland operation now then they did when they split the market with Aloha, so I'm not certain that there is room for a second full competitor in the market currently.
 
INFINITI329
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Re: Updated: Island Air to Cease Operations

Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:26 pm

The question is who will step in to fill the void.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Updated: Island Air to Cease Operations

Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:15 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
The question is who will step in to fill the void.

If Hawaiian was smart they would just add whatever is needed and make sure fares are low for a while.
 
SoCalPilot
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Re: Updated: Island Air to Cease Operations

Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:42 pm

RushmoreAir wrote:
First major(ish) U.S. airline bankruptcy in over a year!

Uhhh, PenAir? If Island Air is a "majorish" airline then PenAir most certainly is.
 
77H
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Re: Updated: Island Air to Cease Operations

Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:17 pm

hawaiian717 wrote:
I feel like WP never quite figured out what they wanted to be after Aloha Air Group sold them off. They wanted to replace Aloha as a full blown competitor to Hawaiian, but lacked a big enough fleet to build a competitive schedule. They also developed a reputation for being unreliable as the Dash 8-100s got close to the end of their life, and the early ATR72s were old and problematic as well. I don't know if their reputation or operation ever really recovered from that period.

Ellison seemed to try to focus on serving his resorts in LNY, but the ATR72 seems like too big an airplane to effectively serve the smaller destinations.

Hawaiian runs a bigger interisland operation now then they did when they split the market with Aloha, so I'm not certain that there is room for a second full competitor in the market currently.


My thoughts exactly. HA has positioned themselves brilliantly in the market. The addition of 'Ohana took away WP's last chance of reorganizing and going back to its roots as a commuter carrier. Instead of buying Q400's they should have purchased new ATR42's (ideally prior to 'Ohana) and served the likes of MKK, LNY and JHM from HNL and OGG. WP tried too much to be something it wasn't and it cost them the company.

I also agree that the market is likely too small at this point for anyone else to come in and actually make a profit, including WN. Any new entrant in the market will need to base enough airplanes in Hawaii to compete with HA's schedule which is unlikely. If they don't, any new entrant could compete on price but all that would create is a fare war which would be good for consumers in the short term. In the long term, that new entrant would likely pull out citing losses in the market and Hawaii would be left with a much weaker HA for it. In my opinion, the people of Hawaii had their chance to ensure Hawaiian had some competition. It was Island Air. The people spoke with the only thing that matters, their wallets. Now we must live with what the market has decided. For those who still feel HA needs competition, I say to you, put your cash, check or card where your mouth is and support MW.

77H
 
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n901wa
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Re: Updated: Island Air to Cease Operations

Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:19 pm

Aloha Princeville Airways :( Will always remember the Twin Otters. Good Luck to all the Workers at Island Air!
 
Carfield
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Re: Updated: Island Air to Cease Operations

Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:45 pm

It is sad to see this regional airline goes. There will be no competition anymore in these domestic flights between the Islands.
I flew Island Air for the first time a few days ago. While the Dash 8-Q400 was nice, I was not too impressed with its on time record. My flight suffered a rolling delay because of rain and also the aircraft had some issues. They had three Dash 8 but absolutely no spare plane.

Anyway here are a few pictures i took and link to my full album:
http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/Carfi ... rDash8Q400

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Thank you Island Air and Goodbye!

Carfield
Last edited by Carfield on Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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HA_DC9
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Re: Updated: Island Air to Cease Operations

Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:49 pm

They should never have switched to the Q400 round 2...this was the second time they played with the Q400 in their fleet. What they should have done was stuck with the ATR and gone all -72 or -42 mixed fleet and gone with the newer -500 or -600 versions versus the aged ATR-72-200 they had. They could have leased -500 versions too versus buying new. Would have, could have, should have. Good luck to all the WP employees after today.
 
MO11
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Re: Updated: Island Air to Cease Operations

Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:59 am

HA_DC9 wrote:
They should never have switched to the Q400 round 2...this was the second time they played with the Q400 in their fleet. .



Actually round 3. Gavarnie leased two; the first entered service but I'm not sure the second was ever ferried to Hawaii. Then the Larry Ellison group leased two, but they never made it past Tucson.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Updated: Island Air to Cease Operations

Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:32 am

I really thought AS should have codeshared with Island Air so they can get their clients who want to do multi-island vacations an easy way to optimize their air-fare or maximize their miles.
 
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usxguy
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Re: Updated: Island Air to Cease Operations

Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:35 am

Whoever is running the res system seems to have quit their job. No HX/TK/XM messages were sent out, just zero'd out inventory. So anyone booked thru another airline or travel agency still thinks their flight is operating.

This isn't going to be good for people who aren't paying attention to the news....
xx
 
HNLPointShoot
Posts: 237
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Re: Updated: Island Air to Cease Operations

Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:15 am

INFINITI329 wrote:
The question is who will step in to fill the void.


There's no significant void to speak of; WP had about 5-8% of the interisland market share before Friday, which is a small fraction of what Aloha had when they shut down.

usxguy wrote:
Whoever is running the res system seems to have quit their job. No HX/TK/XM messages were sent out, just zero'd out inventory. So anyone booked thru another airline or travel agency still thinks their flight is operating.


More likely they were involuntarily laid off at the end of Friday.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Island Air files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy

Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:33 pm

MO11 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Lease terminations don't happen overnight, They happen as result of payment delinquency, or other dispute over terms.


And the terms could be some lease covenants related to the company's financial health.

The Star Advertiser indicated that there were five airplanes. But as noted above, two (belonging to a Danish leasing company) flew to Canada, were painted white, and are now sitting in Toronto.

It sounds like this was in work for a while. Considering how bad their financial results were, not that surprising.


Sadly for Island Air, WN can sustain losses to start service. WN also has their existing sales network, brand recognition, and economy of scale to have operations start smoother. By flying inter-island to help feed flights to the mainland, WN will have connecting feed for both services.

Since inter-island service isn't huge, you will see two forms of alliances form. One group with Hawaiian and another group with WN. It looks like HA has been proactive with the Japanese airlines... Will WN be more proactive on code-sharing? Can they? I'm not that interested to know every airlines union contracts. In fact, I find it silly, outside of scope clause, that union contracts inhibit strategic decisions (e.g., redeyes, code-shares, or international flying). No one gets credit for shooting themselves in the foot.

Lightsaber
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lightsaber
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Re: Island Air files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy

Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:35 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
Prost wrote:
Maybe Delta should ship 5-10 717s to Hawai’i. It’d pretty much explode a few heads on this board.


With reg. nos. ending in WN? I think Mr. Kelly would be very interested. The exploding heads would be on Koapaka St.

DL would have to do that soon. Oh... It would be funny to keep the WN registrations. :rotfl:

But the market is barely big enough for two airlines. Does DL really have enough service to Hawaii to feed inter-island flights?

This could get brutal. Three airlines would be 3 losing money.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
ExMilitaryEng
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Re: Updated: Island Air to Cease Operations

Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:22 pm

Anyone knows where those Q400s will end up? (Not where stored, but which operator)

On paper, the faster speed, the higher rate of climb and the slightly shorter t/o distance of the Q400 should have been a good fit for WP operations. (Despite the Q400 higher operating/leasing costs). I guess the transition costs were a "bridge too far".
 
F9Animal
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Re: Updated: Island Air to Cease Operations

Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:36 pm

Did anyone catch the last flight? Any flyby or special ending?
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
F9Animal
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Re: Updated: Island Air to Cease Operations

Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:37 pm

Carfield wrote:
It is sad to see this regional airline goes. There will be no competition anymore in these domestic flights between the Islands.
I flew Island Air for the first time a few days ago. While the Dash 8-Q400 was nice, I was not too impressed with its on time record. My flight suffered a rolling delay because of rain and also the aircraft had some issues. They had three Dash 8 but absolutely no spare plane.

Anyway here are a few pictures i took and link to my full album:
http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/Carfi ... rDash8Q400

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Thank you Island Air and Goodbye!

Carfield


Wonderful pics!!! I really had hopes of flying on them on my next trip to Hawaii. I never flew on the ATR, which they got rid of. But, I just wanted to try them out. Sad sad sad. I feel awful for the employees.
I Am A Different Animal!!

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