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ADrum23
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:35 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Its okay DTW got nothing, actually lost a BWI frequency. Oh well, because that’s a good thing for Spirit and Delta.


I'm beginning to wonder if something is going on behind the scenes at BNA (perhaps in relation to the recent firing of the airport CEO) that is preventing new service from being announced right now. I find it incredibly odd that BNA is the fastest growing airport of it's size and yet, not one new domestic service has been announced for a spring start date, yet, most of BNA's peer airports do have domestic service starting in March/April.


This might be off base but I will throw it out there. Usually airports offer incentives for any new route started. Could all the money they threw at the BA route have tapped them out. It sounds like the CEO extended more money than they had to offer for that route, so maybe now this is the repercussions from it. They have no money for any other new routes of any kind for awhile.


That is certainly a possibility, but I don't know about that. I don't think much incentive $$$ is needed for domestic routes (especially from carriers that already serve the airport). As for new carriers, like the rumored NK launch, how much incentive money do you need there? Not much.

I am very surprised that WN has not added anything new at BNA for next year, such as SJC, PDX, IND, ATL, BDL, etc.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3688
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:45 pm

ADrum23 wrote:

That is certainly a possibility, but I don't know about that. I don't think much incentive $$$ is needed for domestic routes (especially from carriers that already serve the airport). As for new carriers, like the rumored NK launch, how much incentive money do you need there? Not much.

I am very surprised that WN has not added anything new at BNA for next year, such as SJC, PDX, IND, ATL, BDL, etc.


I am sure the plane situation hasn't helped. The PDX route is the one that has surprised me the most, but I don't know what the PDEW data for that route is at the moment either.
 
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Midwestindy
Topic Author
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:02 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:

That is certainly a possibility, but I don't know about that. I don't think much incentive $$$ is needed for domestic routes (especially from carriers that already serve the airport). As for new carriers, like the rumored NK launch, how much incentive money do you need there? Not much.

I am very surprised that WN has not added anything new at BNA for next year, such as SJC, PDX, IND, ATL, BDL, etc.


I am sure the plane situation hasn't helped. The PDX route is the one that has surprised me the most, but I don't know what the PDEW data for that route is at the moment either.


Q2 2017
BNA-PDX-121 PDEW

Something fishy is going on though, BNA is one of largest stations for WN, so for BNA to be left out of three straight schedule extensions is odd....
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
WNflyer1523
Posts: 257
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:23 pm

After doing some more checking, ISP must be doing pretty good, cause all 2x daily flights to/from TPA are now on a 737-800 (instead of the usual 1x daily 737-700), and other WN flights from ISP have seen increased frequencies and/or bigger planes.
 
ADrum23
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:32 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:

That is certainly a possibility, but I don't know about that. I don't think much incentive $$$ is needed for domestic routes (especially from carriers that already serve the airport). As for new carriers, like the rumored NK launch, how much incentive money do you need there? Not much.

I am very surprised that WN has not added anything new at BNA for next year, such as SJC, PDX, IND, ATL, BDL, etc.


I am sure the plane situation hasn't helped. The PDX route is the one that has surprised me the most, but I don't know what the PDEW data for that route is at the moment either.


Q2 2017
BNA-PDX-121 PDEW

Something fishy is going on though, BNA is one of largest stations for WN, so for BNA to be left out of three straight schedule extensions is odd....


Not bad PDEW numbers, but any BNA-PDX route (whether it'd be on AS or WN) would likely be seasonal for the time being. I don't feel that is quite enough PDEW to start year-round service (even less than daily). It would also likely have to be a mainline flight, as the E75 may be out of range or at the limit on BNA-PDX.

Yes, I find it interesting WN (or any other domestic carrier) has not added anything for next year out of BNA. Perhaps there is some fallout with former CEO Rob Wigington's firing. I think an email to the MNAA may be in order now.......
 
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FA9295
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:01 am

Is there any way to see WN's new routes for this schedule extension? I see people talking here about routes ending and/or new routes starting, but I cannot find any press release or article stating WN's newly planned routes.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3688
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:01 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:

That is certainly a possibility, but I don't know about that. I don't think much incentive $$$ is needed for domestic routes (especially from carriers that already serve the airport). As for new carriers, like the rumored NK launch, how much incentive money do you need there? Not much.

I am very surprised that WN has not added anything new at BNA for next year, such as SJC, PDX, IND, ATL, BDL, etc.


I am sure the plane situation hasn't helped. The PDX route is the one that has surprised me the most, but I don't know what the PDEW data for that route is at the moment either.


Q2 2017
BNA-PDX-121 PDEW

Something fishy is going on though, BNA is one of largest stations for WN, so for BNA to be left out of three straight schedule extensions is odd....


It has to be getting close. Just comparing it to STL. Same qtr this year is 156 PDEW. And STL also has an AS 175 on the route. STL does have a little more feed on WN though probably. If I get a chance I'll go back and see what it was when they started it.

I would be curious on MCI also but then we are starting to get a shorter route by a bit
 
msycajun
Posts: 1130
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:13 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:14 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:

That is certainly a possibility, but I don't know about that. I don't think much incentive $$$ is needed for domestic routes (especially from carriers that already serve the airport). As for new carriers, like the rumored NK launch, how much incentive money do you need there? Not much.

I am very surprised that WN has not added anything new at BNA for next year, such as SJC, PDX, IND, ATL, BDL, etc.


I am sure the plane situation hasn't helped. The PDX route is the one that has surprised me the most, but I don't know what the PDEW data for that route is at the moment either.


Q2 2017
BNA-PDX-121 PDEW

Something fishy is going on though, BNA is one of largest stations for WN, so for BNA to be left out of three straight schedule extensions is odd....

BNA is large, but is not even in the top 10 for WN. Apart from California, there have been few major adds across the whole system.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3688
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:15 am

FA9295 wrote:
Is there any way to see WN's new routes for this schedule extension? I see people talking here about routes ending and/or new routes starting, but I cannot find any press release or article stating WN's newly planned routes.


Most people looked for new routes to show up on the route map. Others did dummy bookings. Some individual airports did releases. Usually WN does a release by now but they had tech issues today so I am guessing it won't come out til later tonight or tomorrow.
 
airliner371
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:31 am

Press release on the schedule extension:
http://www.swamedia.com/releases/releas ... t-schedule
 
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FA9295
Posts: 1770
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:46 am

airliner371 wrote:
Press release on the schedule extension:
http://www.swamedia.com/releases/releas ... t-schedule


Thanks! This link was very helpful :smile:
 
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southwest1675
Posts: 1520
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:36 am

Shame WN has been quiet at BNA these past few releases.
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
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SteveXC500
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:38 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:52 am

airliner371 wrote:
Press release on the schedule extension:
http://www.swamedia.com/releases/releas ... t-schedule


No mention of MSP-DAL, even as a Sunday only
 
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SANFan
Posts: 5488
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:18 pm

This is really hard to believe! For those of us who use the WN Flight Schedules to see what's up with new releases, this is terrible, completely FUBAR! The schedules still don't work beyond June 5, 2018 almost 24 hours after the release yesterday morning.

And the cited 'release summary' was not much help either since it's not at all complete.

Not one of your best efforts, Southwest... Perhaps the Company's too busy making ridiculous demands regarding Love Field to work on a major schedule extension?

bb
 
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SteveXC500
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:38 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:36 pm

SANFan wrote:
This is really hard to believe! For those of us who use the WN Flight Schedules to see what's up with new releases, this is terrible, completely FUBAR! The schedules still don't work beyond June 5, 2018 almost 24 hours after the release yesterday morning.

And the cited 'release summary' was not much help either since it's not at all complete.

Not one of your best efforts, Southwest... Perhaps the Company's too busy making ridiculous demands regarding Love Field to work on a major schedule extension?

bb


My feelings exactly. You can view the schedule through booking, but that is a ton of work.
 
TW787
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:50 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:54 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
Southwest lost 7 slots at SNA in the 2018 reallocation. The only question about cuts there were which routes.


So are you saying it is a coincidence that Alaska has been growing slots in SNA the past two years? Could be, I guess, but it could also be that Alaska is outplaying Southwest at the SNA slots game and forcing them to make cuts.

wnflyguy wrote:

Nope All international from SAN,SNA and LAX remains intact.

Flyguy


Yeah, I was a victim of all the res system issues. These we're gone early yesterday but are back now.

So if they are losing 7 slots at SNA where are the other two? I count SFO as -3, MDW as -1, and LAS as -1 which makes -5.
 
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SANFan
Posts: 5488
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:02 pm

SteveXC500 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
This is really hard to believe! For those of us who use the WN Flight Schedules to see what's up with new releases, this is terrible, completely FUBAR!
bb


My feelings exactly. You can view the schedule through booking, but that is a ton of work.

Precisely! It takes a gob of time just to tell if 1 flight is daily or not using the booking engine! (And these days, a daily flight is NOT a given!)

I just had a horrible thought as I was writing my previous post: I wonder if WN is stopping the Flight Schedules display with this latest extension? I sure hope not...

Wouldn't it be thoughtful of WN to offer an explanation as to what's going on and when things might be fixed? This is really disappointing.

bb
 
stlgph
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:08 pm

Hilarious so many are mad they can't get on Southwest.com and find out what time they're flying out of Grand Rapids on the third Tuesday of next August. Flights none of you will ever book anyway.

Wow. Just. Wow.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5076
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:50 pm

TW787 wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
TW787 wrote:
Looks like some big wins for Alaska in here...

SFO-SNA reduced from 6 to 3...is this the only intra California market where Alaska has more frequency than Southwest now?

Both SNA and SAN to SJD are showing as exited
LAX to CUN and PVR are showing as exited


Southwest lost 7 slots at SNA in the 2018 reallocation. The only question about cuts there were which routes.


So are you saying it is a coincidence that Alaska has been growing slots in SNA the past two years? Could be, I guess, but it could also be that Alaska is outplaying Southwest at the SNA slots game and forcing them to make cuts.

All I said was that we knew there were SNA cuts coming for WN since the county announced the 2018 slot reallocation 3 weeks ago. It could have been WN flights to LAS, PHX, etc. We were just waiting to see.
viewtopic.php?t=1375825

I never mentioned AS and implied nothing.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
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SteveXC500
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:38 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:38 pm

stlgph wrote:
Hilarious so many are mad they can't get on Southwest.com and find out what time they're flying out of Grand Rapids on the third Tuesday of next August. Flights none of you will ever book anyway.

Wow. Just. Wow.


Actually, not the reason I look. I like to view the entire set of daily MSP flights to gauge changes YOY. Southwest doesn't often publish every change in a nice to use spreadsheet or PDF.
Of course, I could never do this for Delta at MSP, but for a smaller operation like WN, I can and do. Strictly for informational purposes.
 
GSP psgr
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Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:16 pm

phluser wrote:
TYSflyer wrote:
Looks like GSP is still there. Flights available in July.


WN should give GSP-BWI a second chance with 2x daily, or 3x daily and just run BWI service and not ATL. If BWI can get the government gateway traffic, connecting traffic, O&D traffic that bleeds to CLT, and from the north it can get traffic that would otherwise use DCA or PHL, it should have a chance.

When GSP originally opened, WN offered a number of flights but connections weren't necessarily routed through BWI, with BNA, HOU and MDW involved. Then the FL acquisition happened, and WN was serving CLT-BWI and ATL-BWI - GSP was second fiddle to those airports. WN tinkered with GSP-BWI as 1x daily in the evening (mistake there) and then cut GSP-BWI altogether. The route was diluted, then trimmed to a crappy schedule. Meanwhile it's compared to CHS (the success story) and GSP gets the bad rap as if it's the failure of the market.


IIRC, they finally upped GSP-BWI back to 2x daily, bringing back the AM flight just before they cut it. Which was bizarre.

WN made a few mistakes at GSP:

1) They let Allegiant beat them there. I think WN would have cleaned up with their daily MCO service, but Allegiant established themselves in the market first.
2) WN tried to do too much at once when they started. Instead of starting with 7 flights and 5 markets (HOU, MDW, BWI, MCO, BNA), they'd have been better off starting with maybe 5 flights to 3 markets (BWI, MDW, and one of BNA/HOU). As I recall, the BNA flight was not all that well timed either, which probably contributed to it being a dog.
3) WN almost immediately undercut GSP by adding both CLT and ATL.

Adding to the difficulties is the fact that they lack a clear cut massive Southern operation, like exists at DEN (mountain west), MDW (Midwest), BWI (Mid-Atlantic). When they bought FL, ATL was that size, but they've since shrunk it by about a third, and it has relatively limited International and West Coast service and some holes to Northeastern markets. BNA's growing, but isn't yet as big as ATL (once concourse D is built and AA moved from C, it might get there). BWI's a tad far North to serve flows to Florida, which ATL allows them to do.

Honestly, I'd be happy to see WN grow to something like (AM flights to ATL, MDW, BWI; noon to ATL; PM to BWI and ATL). More realistically, an AM to MDW or HOU would fill out most of the big holes Westbound at least.
 
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SANFan
Posts: 5488
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:14 pm

stlgph wrote:
Hilarious so many are mad they can't get on Southwest.com and find out what time they're flying out of Grand Rapids on the third Tuesday of next August. Flights none of you will ever book anyway.
Wow. Just. Wow.

I'm glad you're amused.

WN provides tools for its clients to use to find flights, for tomorrow, or, as of yesterday, next summer. For whatever reason.

Southwest doesn't seem to be able to be able to get this important program working. (Or, if they've dropped this capability, it would be nice of them to say so.) And yesterday, I believe it was reported that a bunch of flights appearing on the booking engine were zeroed out.

Whatever's going on, I see as a problem for one of the largest U.S. airlines. If they can't get this to work correctly, what else might not be working correctly?

bb
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14723
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:37 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:

That is certainly a possibility, but I don't know about that. I don't think much incentive $$$ is needed for domestic routes (especially from carriers that already serve the airport). As for new carriers, like the rumored NK launch, how much incentive money do you need there? Not much.

I am very surprised that WN has not added anything new at BNA for next year, such as SJC, PDX, IND, ATL, BDL, etc.


I am sure the plane situation hasn't helped. The PDX route is the one that has surprised me the most, but I don't know what the PDEW data for that route is at the moment either.


Q2 2017
BNA-PDX-121 PDEW

Something fishy is going on though, BNA is one of largest stations for WN, so for BNA to be left out of three straight schedule extensions is odd....


There's just not that much left to add because there aren't many markets left that are long enough to have a decent local market (i.e. longer than ATL/CVG/IND) yet short enough that they do not tie up a plane all day. PIT, MKE, and MSP are all good (and relatively recent) adds.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3688
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:49 pm

Cubsrule wrote:

There's just not that much left to add because there aren't many markets left that are long enough to have a decent local market (i.e. longer than ATL/CVG/IND) yet short enough that they do not tie up a plane all day. PIT, MKE, and MSP are all good (and relatively recent) adds.


Good points. If they are going to run a longer route it has to be worth it when they could be running 2 shorter routes instead.
 
GSP psgr
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Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:09 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:09 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

I am sure the plane situation hasn't helped. The PDX route is the one that has surprised me the most, but I don't know what the PDEW data for that route is at the moment either.


Q2 2017
BNA-PDX-121 PDEW

Something fishy is going on though, BNA is one of largest stations for WN, so for BNA to be left out of three straight schedule extensions is odd....


There's just not that much left to add because there aren't many markets left that are long enough to have a decent local market (i.e. longer than ATL/CVG/IND) yet short enough that they do not tie up a plane all day. PIT, MKE, and MSP are all good (and relatively recent) adds.


As far as short haul possibilities: Buffalo (pull from Toronto?), Hartford, West Palm Beach (seasonal?)
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14723
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:17 pm

GSP psgr wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Q2 2017
BNA-PDX-121 PDEW

Something fishy is going on though, BNA is one of largest stations for WN, so for BNA to be left out of three straight schedule extensions is odd....


There's just not that much left to add because there aren't many markets left that are long enough to have a decent local market (i.e. longer than ATL/CVG/IND) yet short enough that they do not tie up a plane all day. PIT, MKE, and MSP are all good (and relatively recent) adds.


As far as short haul possibilities: Buffalo (pull from Toronto?), Hartford, West Palm Beach (seasonal?)


Nashvillians don’t go to West Palm. You’d be shocked how many of my friends don’t know what the Breakers or Worth Avenue are.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:04 pm

GSP psgr wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Q2 2017
BNA-PDX-121 PDEW

Something fishy is going on though, BNA is one of largest stations for WN, so for BNA to be left out of three straight schedule extensions is odd....


There's just not that much left to add because there aren't many markets left that are long enough to have a decent local market (i.e. longer than ATL/CVG/IND) yet short enough that they do not tie up a plane all day. PIT, MKE, and MSP are all good (and relatively recent) adds.


As far as short haul possibilities: Buffalo (pull from Toronto?), Hartford, West Palm Beach (seasonal?)


I can see Indianapolis, Hartford or Providence (one or the other, whichever is stronger) and maybe Oklahoma City or Omaha. Long-haul, the only additional routes I could see are San Jose and Portland. That's it.
 
lat41
Posts: 646
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:23 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:20 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
GSP psgr wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
I can see Indianapolis, Hartford or Providence (one or the other, whichever is stronger) and maybe Oklahoma City or Omaha. Long-haul, the only additional routes I could see are San Jose and Portland. That's it.


PVD used to have BNA service and it was a great way to reach the broader WN system besides MDW and BWI. Filled it right up too, but it and other flights were thinned to prop up BOS when they opened that station. It could be supported again by Southern New England and not just with $69 cheapies.
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:48 pm

lat41 wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
GSP psgr wrote:


PVD used to have BNA service and it was a great way to reach the broader WN system besides MDW and BWI. Filled it right up too, but it and other flights were thinned to prop up BOS when they opened that station. It could be supported again by Southern New England and not just with $69 cheapies.


I could see a daily BNA-PVD flight without hurting the BNA-BOS service, but I doubt it happens before cities like SJC, PDX, etc.
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 1109
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:15 am

jsposaune wrote:
PIT-CUN as well...looks like Saturday only to start.


So, WN joining a crowded PIT-CUN market with AA, DL and a couple of tourist operators. Looks like there's a lot of growth in that market from PIT and WN is trying to take advantage of it.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
AntonioMartin
Posts: 742
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:05 am

SCHATC422 wrote:
So FNT is closing..... read GSP is as well? If FNT is closing, GSP HAS to be as well.

I came here now to see if anything had been posted about that and make a post if it hadn't. I wonder how will that affect Flint?
 
AntonioMartin
Posts: 742
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:20 am

GSP psgr wrote:
phluser wrote:
TYSflyer wrote:
(AM flights to ATL, MDW, BWI; noon to ATL). More realistically, an AM to MDW or HOU would fill out most of the big holes Westbound at least.

I didn't know AeroMexico flew so many ninth freedom flights in the USA! :lol: j/k
 
jplatts
Posts: 3938
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:32 pm

GSP psgr wrote:
phluser wrote:
TYSflyer wrote:
Looks like GSP is still there. Flights available in July.


WN should give GSP-BWI a second chance with 2x daily, or 3x daily and just run BWI service and not ATL. If BWI can get the government gateway traffic, connecting traffic, O&D traffic that bleeds to CLT, and from the north it can get traffic that would otherwise use DCA or PHL, it should have a chance.

When GSP originally opened, WN offered a number of flights but connections weren't necessarily routed through BWI, with BNA, HOU and MDW involved. Then the FL acquisition happened, and WN was serving CLT-BWI and ATL-BWI - GSP was second fiddle to those airports. WN tinkered with GSP-BWI as 1x daily in the evening (mistake there) and then cut GSP-BWI altogether. The route was diluted, then trimmed to a crappy schedule. Meanwhile it's compared to CHS (the success story) and GSP gets the bad rap as if it's the failure of the market.


IIRC, they finally upped GSP-BWI back to 2x daily, bringing back the AM flight just before they cut it. Which was bizarre.

WN made a few mistakes at GSP:

1) They let Allegiant beat them there. I think WN would have cleaned up with their daily MCO service, but Allegiant established themselves in the market first.
2) WN tried to do too much at once when they started. Instead of starting with 7 flights and 5 markets (HOU, MDW, BWI, MCO, BNA), they'd have been better off starting with maybe 5 flights to 3 markets (BWI, MDW, and one of BNA/HOU). As I recall, the BNA flight was not all that well timed either, which probably contributed to it being a dog.
3) WN almost immediately undercut GSP by adding both CLT and ATL.

Adding to the difficulties is the fact that they lack a clear cut massive Southern operation, like exists at DEN (mountain west), MDW (Midwest), BWI (Mid-Atlantic). When they bought FL, ATL was that size, but they've since shrunk it by about a third, and it has relatively limited International and West Coast service and some holes to Northeastern markets. BNA's growing, but isn't yet as big as ATL (once concourse D is built and AA moved from C, it might get there). BWI's a tad far North to serve flows to Florida, which ATL allows them to do.

Honestly, I'd be happy to see WN grow to something like (AM flights to ATL, MDW, BWI; noon to ATL; PM to BWI and ATL). More realistically, an AM to MDW or HOU would fill out most of the big holes Westbound at least.


Southwest actually needed GSP-HOU nonstop service when it started service out of GSP since DAL was still subject to Wright Amendment restrictions when Southwest first started service out of GSP, since Southwest could connect passengers going between GSP and DAL through HOU, and since Southwest did not operate under the Southwest brand in ATL when it first started service out of GSP. Southwest can actually now connect passengers from GSP to DAL through ATL with the repeal of the Wright Amendment, with the completion of the integration of AirTran into Southwest, with Southwest adding DAL-ATL nonstop service, and with Southwest adding ATL-GSP nonstop service.

Southwest has nonstop international service to SJD, PVR, MEX, BZE, LIR, and SJO from HOU but not from ATL, and Southwest was able to connect passengers from GSP to these international destinations through HOU for a few months. Even though Southwest no longer needs GSP-HOU nonstop service to connect passengers to DAL, AUS, and SAT with the addition of GSP-ATL nonstop service, Southwest could provide easier access to international destinations from GSP if it brings back GSP-HOU nonstop service.

MDW was one of the top destinations at GSP right before Southwest discontinued MDW-GSP nonstop service, and there was actually more demand to MDW than there was to ORD back in March 2016 (according to the BTS statistics for GSP). Southwest should not have dropped MDW-GSP nonstop service and Southwest probably should bring back MDW-GSP nonstop service if it is planning on continuing service out of GSP. In addition, Southwest could connect passengers to OMA, SLC, SEA, PDX, and SMF from GSP through MDW when it served MDW nonstop from GSP, but Southwest is not able to connect passengers to these destinations from GSP with a single connection when it discontinued GSP-MDW nonstop service.

There are many destinations in the Northeast that Southwest serves nonstop from BWI but not from ATL, including BUF, ROC, ALB, ISP, BDL, PVD, MHT, and PWM, and Southwest is no longer able to connect passengers to these destinations with a single connection with the discontinuation of BWI-GSP nonstop service.

Southwest actually did lose business, market share, and connecting opportunities at GSP by dropping nonstop service from GSP to MDW, BWI, and HOU. On the other hand, Southwest could provide easier connections from GSP to its DAL home base, plus MCI, STL, IND, and MKE in the Midwest, plus JAX, MCO, TPA, RSW, PBI, and FLL in Florida, plus PHL and RIC on the East Coast by adding GSP-ATL nonstop service.

I do agree that Southwest did make some mistakes at GSP, and I do agree that Southwest serving only ATL nonstop from GSP is one of those mistakes, especially with ATL being only 154 miles from GSP, with Southwest's GSP-ATL nonstop service going head-to-head with Delta Air Lines, with Delta able to connect passengers from GSP to the very same destinations through its main ATL hub, with Southwest not serving destinations other than ATL nonstop from GSP, and with Southwest losing business and market share at GSP by only serving ATL nonstop from GSP.
 
mtnwest1979
Posts: 2211
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:23 am

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 11/02/17

Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:30 am

Gee only 27 'Southwest' references above. Makes the headache of the repetitive info fun to filter through.
Riddle: Which lasts longer, a start-up airline or a start-up football league?
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