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ojjunior
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:47 pm

Well, for every foot there's a shoe out there...
 
RJMAZ
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:18 am

aerohottie wrote:
I'm happy to compare the aircraft in the standard layouts they are used.
The 787 is a 9 abreast aircraft (8 abreast was wishful thinking)
The 767 is a 7 abreast aircraft (only a sadist would claim 8 abreast as standard)

I am happy to do that and the 767 still wins.

I just checked about 50 seat layouts for the US and Japan airlines so I will summarise for you. Both aircraft use the same business class layout. Big advantage to the 767 as business class cabin takes up a smaller percentage of cabin space.

All 787's add extra seat pitch in 9AB economy to make up for the lack of shoulder space and more middle seats. All 787's had a higher ratio of premium economy seats. The 767's basic economy seat meets the criteria of a premium economy seat on most new aircraft, so airlines don't have as many Y+ rows on the 767.

The average seat pitch on a 9AB 787 in economy is 2in higher than the 767. Japan who operates 8AB on their 787 fleet uses the lowest seat pitch which happens to be the same seat pitch as the 767. This shows for a direct comparison with equal pitch you should use a 8AB 787.

For calculations:
767 is a 31inch pitch 7 abreast aircraft
787 is a 33inch pitch 9 abreast aircraft
787 is a 31inch pitch 8 abreast aircraft

So for per seat fuel burn calculations need to take this into account. This improves the 767 business case significantly.

The 767 might be coming back for thick short haul routes as a MOM aircraft. 8ab with good pitch or 7ab with tight pitch would both work. They could even do 8ab economy, 7ab premium economy and 6ab for business class.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:55 am

I've thought in the past that the 767 might be a good aircraft for just such a product differentiation: 8ab basic economy, 7ab economy, and 6ab premium economy. Call them Basic, Plus, and Premium. This would be for a LCC-type long haul carrier and using fresh off the line, current technology 767-300ERs versus a MAX (though MAX would have been "cooler"). Low acquisition cost, decent maintenance cost, and more than capable of flying most routes that an LCC LH carrier might fly. Of course, the A330 and, more recently, the 787 have sort of stolen that show.
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RJMAZ
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:34 am

With 8ab on the 767 the aisles are pretty narrow which would slow down boarding. But if the 8ab is in the back third of the aircraft it won't slow down boarding much at all. The aisle would get slightly wider in the 7ab section and wider again at the front 6ab section. This is ideal from a boarding perspective. There would be fewer remaining passenger to seat the further back you go.

Domestic cabins are usually tighter in general. Like if we use united's 3 class sized seats of a 737-800 which has 160 passengers. With similar space allocation between classes and area we end up with 258 seats 3 class 767-300.

144 economy seats.
18 rows 8ab 17in wide 32in pitch 16in aisle

84 premium economy seats.
12 rows 7ab 18.5in wide 32in pitch 18in aisle.

30 business class seats
5 rows 6ab 20in wide 40in pitch 20in aisle.

On short trips this would beat a 787 with 9ab, 8ab and 6ab Y, Y+ and J
 
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:23 pm

Revelation wrote:
jagraham wrote:
The 764 already has a 777 flightdeck. Only the new engines are necessary

Interesting comparison:

viewtopic.php?t=763279

But it's really about presentation. The underlying systems are still unique. For instance 777 is FBW, 767 is not.



True, but having the 777 flightdeck means that only a software change is necessary to control a GEnx engine. If it is a 763, the flightdeck will need serious updating to accommodate the new engine. Or the GEnx FADEC will need changes to speak CF6-80C. Not to mention the shorter landing gear and lower clearance.
 
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:45 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Btblue wrote:
If Airbus can NEO the A330 then there is no reason why Boeing cannot MAX the 767... or just sell the 767 to previous customers who need a replacement and see commonality as more cost effective to offset the fuel disadvantage and not worry about heavy maintenance for the next few years.

BUT

Looking from the perspective of a low cost airline CEO, there is a massive hole between the 737 and the 767, equating to 145 seats.

737MAX-10 Maximum seating = 230

767-300 Maximum seating = 375

That leaves a gap of 145 seats. This is where the MOM sits - there possibly is a place for the 767MAX but the 767 is certainly not the MOM.



Making a business case/definition of MOM based solely on high-density seating is not the most effective way to define its characteristics. The 763 in the configuration most potential MOM carriers would want (three cabin, F/Y+/Y) is definitely within the market's expectations for a MOM equivalent.


Transatlantic airlines have gone out of their way to put in lie flat business class across all their products. They are not going to give that up. Only ULCCs will fly across the Atlantic without lie flat business class. For those airlines, the A321NEO LR will do. But for the mainlines, they will keep their lie flat seats and have a reasonable seat count into those slot constrained airports.
 
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:35 am

Stitch wrote:
uta999 wrote:
Come 2025, Boeing will be offering the 707-X, 727-X, 757-X, 767-X, 777-X and the 787-2000X


If airlines will give them tens of billions in revenue buying them, they'd be fools not to.


You forgot the 717-X and the 720-X.
 
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:12 am

tjh8402 wrote:
william wrote:
After 12 pages, I still would like to know the big negative behind this rumor? Is it because said airlines are inquiring about the 767 over the beloved and most favored status A321 and A330?


[...]

People here seem to forget that airframe manufacturers and airlines don't exist primarily to stick their neck out making and buying bold moon shot groundbreaking earth shaking new designs that impress online forums, rather than $ for their shareholders building and operating machines that move people and goods as profitably as possible. You'll hear plenty of complaints about the 767s old fashioned tech while ignoring the fact that it makes a lot of airlines a lot of $, and even at fire sale prices, still makes Boeing good $ with every sale.


This is exactly not the case in many recent examples. If that would be true, the A330neo should be flying of the shelves as should the 747-8i and – to a lesser extend - the77X. In reality, the „moon-shoot“ 787 and A350 take nearly all the orders despite being more expensive. Same happened for the A330 vs. the 767 some time ago.

Actually maxing 40 year plus frames doesn’t work out in most cases. I'm pretty sure that the inherent ineffiziencies of the 767 (to big for 7-abreast, to small for 8-abreast, LD2 capabilities, wing) would hamper it's prospect heavily in the long run. I'm pretty sure Boeing is aware of that and that's the reason they discuss the MOM with customers and not the 767MAX.
 
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:48 am

According to the WSJ if you picked United as the mystery 767 potential customer, you were right.

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3308355-w ... email_link

"United Continental (NYSE:UAL) is considering replacing widebody planes with new Boeing (NYSE:BA) 767 passenger jets, WSJ reports."
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:18 am

jetblastdubai wrote:
According to the WSJ if you picked United as the mystery 767 potential customer, you were right.

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3308355-w ... email_link

"United Continental (NYSE:UAL) is considering replacing widebody planes with new Boeing (NYSE:BA) 767 passenger jets, WSJ reports."

Here is the WSJ link (subscription required):
https://www.wsj.com/articles/united-con ... 1509890401


If UA and Amazon buy new... that will keep the line going for a while. IMHO, UA would only buy new 767s for the right price as a placeholder to the MoM or other aircraft.

Interesting times ahead. Lightsaber
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CX747
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:12 am

Do we have any word on Amazon buying new after going used for the first 40 frames?
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:27 am

tjh8402 wrote:
william wrote:
After 12 pages, I still would like to know the big negative behind this rumor? Is it because said airlines are inquiring about the 767 over the beloved and most favored status A321 and A330?


It's not just that this means a loss of sales for the A321 and a330. People probably wouldn't bat an eye if United announced more 787's. This board has an obsession with the latest and greatest. Tested and proven are not concepts they appreciate or have any time for, and more 767 sales means fewer sales for, and potentially investment in, current and future new fancy stuff. God forbid Boeing come to decide it could make more $ on a 767 Max and deprive us of a 797 MoM to salivate over. They still haven't been forgiven for not ordering airlines to wait on the NSA, and instead listened to what they wanted and went for the ancient but money printing (for both Boeing and the airlines) 737.

People here seem to forget that airframe manufacturers and airlines don't exist primarily to stick their neck out making and buying bold moon shot groundbreaking earth shaking new designs that impress online forums, rather than $ for their shareholders building and operating machines that move people and goods as profitably as possible. You'll hear plenty of complaints about the 767s old fashioned tech while ignoring the fact that it makes a lot of airlines a lot of $, and even at fire sale prices, still makes Boeing good $ with every sale.



Very well written. Proven technology is not "in" for this forum. Heck, look at Amazon running almost 40 "ancient" 767s very hard, with very little issues.

Boeing did not come up with this idea, a CUSTOMER did. United knows the 767 inside and out and exactly what it brings to the table. They also know the 787. All Boeing has done is to see the feasibility and costs associated with making such a move. After that, they can give United a per unit price point.
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:56 pm

From Bloomberg:
“We have not recently asked for an offer for any particular wide-body aircraft type but have in the ordinary course of discussions asked for information about several wide-body aircraft, including the 767,” the United spokesman said in an emailed statement.
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:42 pm

CX747 wrote:
Do we have any word on Amazon buying new after going used for the first 40 frames?

More future tense. When Amazon goes to multi-sorts per day, they will have the economics for buying new. It will be a minority of their fleet. Purely speculation on my part.

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seabosdca
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:32 pm

adamblang wrote:
From Bloomberg:
“We have not recently asked for an offer for any particular wide-body aircraft type but have in the ordinary course of discussions asked for information about several wide-body aircraft, including the 767,” the United spokesman said in an emailed statement.


That helps us see how this played out.

United: "So what's availability like on new 767s? We're thinking about TATL widebodies."
Boeing Sales: "I'll find out."

***

Boeing Sales: "Hey guys, how soon could we get a great customer 25 passenger 767s?"
Boeing Production: "Wait, those are still on the price list? Let me dig around a bit."

***

Boeing Production: "Can you still make me a bunch of new 767 interior components?"
Suppliers: "What?"
Boeing Production: "New 767 interior components."
Suppliers: "Oh, you really said that. I thought I heard you wrong. I think that tooling's in one of those big piles out back. Let me look around."

***

United: "Well?"
Boeing Sales: "..."
 
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Revelation
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:29 pm

seabosdca wrote:
Boeing Production: "Can you still make me a bunch of new 767 interior components?"
Suppliers: "What?"
Boeing Production: "New 767 interior components."
Suppliers: "Oh, you really said that. I thought I heard you wrong. I think that tooling's in one of those big piles out back. Let me look around."

Lightsaber tells us that such parts are made in batches, and if there's none left on the shelf the vendor demands a big premium on top of minimum order size to make a new batch.

That kind of works against the goal of a quick and cheap ramp up of 767 pax production.
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:32 pm

Per FG, United are looking at widebodies in general:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ie-442921/
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:36 pm

They really are getting desperate for a proper 767 replacement, the MOM aircraft can't come soon enough for them it seems.
 
iahcsr
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:48 pm

seabosdca wrote:
adamblang wrote:
From Bloomberg:
“We have not recently asked for an offer for any particular wide-body aircraft type but have in the ordinary course of discussions asked for information about several wide-body aircraft, including the 767,” the United spokesman said in an emailed statement.


That helps us see how this played out.

United: "So what's availability like on new 767s? We're thinking about TATL widebodies."
Boeing Sales: "I'll find out."

***

Boeing Sales: "Hey guys, how soon could we get a great customer 25 passenger 767s?"
Boeing Production: "Wait, those are still on the price list? Let me dig around a bit."


Boeing Production: "Can you still make me a bunch of new 767 interior components?"
Suppliers: "What?"
Boeing Production: "New 767 interior components."
Suppliers: "Oh, you really said that. I thought I heard you wrong. I think that tooling's in one of those big piles out back. Let me look around."

***

United: "Well?"
Boeing Sales: "..."

Yes indeed, this is exactly how I pictured this whole scenario came about. It CAN be done I’m sure. But at what price point and contractual conditions is what will ultimately :thumbsup: :thumbsdown: the idea.
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Devilfish
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:38 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
They really are getting desperate for a proper 767 replacement, the MOM aircraft can't come soon enough for them it seems.

Despite setting up a program office for it, it seems Boeing is still wary that it could be another "moonshot"..... :scratchchin:

Image
http://oi52.tinypic.com/258qhz4.jpg

Image
http://www.fs2000.org/wp-content/upload ... 7v5bo_.jpg

Image
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/OdAQ9StSFdk/hqdefault.jpg


So...which one would it be :confused: :cheerful:
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:48 pm

cheapgreek wrote:
Stitch wrote:
uta999 wrote:
Come 2025, Boeing will be offering the 707-X, 727-X, 757-X, 767-X, 777-X and the 787-2000X


If airlines will give them tens of billions in revenue buying them, they'd be fools not to.


You forgot the 717-X and the 720-X.


720-X is going to be a rocket ship, perfect for hot and high DEN.
 
mandargb
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:06 am

IF they are rethinking 767.
Why not 757 please.
They have cockpit commonality anyway.
And they can find bunch of customers for 757 too, isn't it?
 
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:13 am

So one thing I've been pondering about parts specific to passenger 767s, is what has happened in the past when airlines have wanted to refit their interiors with new panels, bins, etc, etc? Did they have to give the interior part manufacturers a big lead time? Or did they just buy that equipment from a non-OEM source?
 
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:35 am

USAirKid wrote:
So one thing I've been pondering about parts specific to passenger 767s, is what has happened in the past when airlines have wanted to refit their interiors with new panels, bins, etc, etc? Did they have to give the interior part manufacturers a big lead time? Or did they just buy that equipment from a non-OEM source?


Much earlier in the thread I indicated that a new interior was a possibility... and was largely scoffed at and ignored. But, I'll bet that the most current retrofit 767 interior is going to be cheaper than restarting production of the original.

Have a great day,

Perry
 
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:43 am

mandargb wrote:
IF they are rethinking 767.
Why not 757 please.
They have cockpit commonality anyway.
And they can find bunch of customers for 757 too, isn't it?


Because the 757 is long out of production and the tooling to build it is gone. The supply chain is gone. There is no more 757 line. The 767 is still cranking along, only its freighters and tankers for now. It's one thing to add a variant to an existing line, it's another thing to start from scratch. Also, there wouldn't be any 757 orders. The 73X and A321 can do almost everything the 757 can for a lot less $. the 767 is a shade larger, so there are still routes it can do but the smaller narrowobodies can't. while bigger widebodies would be too large and/or too much $ to put on them. It has a niche the 757 doesn't.
 
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:46 am

mandargb wrote:
IF they are rethinking 767.
Why not 757 please.
They have cockpit commonality anyway.
And they can find bunch of customers for 757 too, isn't it?


Surprised it took over a dozen pages for this reply to crop up. :lol:
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speedbird52
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:27 am

This is unrelated but does anyone know why the 767 plant isn't included in the Boeing tour?
 
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:37 am

c933103 wrote:
And is it really that undesirable to make more 788 instead?


788 is expensive and will stay expensive to manufacture. too many differences to the 789/10.

What can Boeing take cheaply from the tanker ( production, cockpit layout, ... )
The tanker already is a 763ER ( just shrunk fuselage, no windows.)
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:57 am

All the information we have up to now, is that UA asked Boeing for the price of a few late model 767-300ER. Boeing does have to asked its suppliers for prices for parts not produced the last four years. Boeing seems not to have to kept up the ability to produce a few 767-300ER.

There is no information about other airlines having asked for new build 767-300ER.

There is also has not happened a launch of a possible MoM or 797, that model would actually take the place of an 767MAX idea.

Producing a batch of 767-300ER for UA would IMO greatly reduce the possibility of the 797 being launched.
 
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:03 pm

Spiderguy252 wrote:
mandargb wrote:
IF they are rethinking 767.
Why not 757 please.
They have cockpit commonality anyway.
And they can find bunch of customers for 757 too, isn't it?


Surprised it took over a dozen pages for this reply to crop up. :lol:


Especially from someone who has been a member here for 16 years, when there are multitudes of threads why the 757 can't be resurrected.
 
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:38 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
There is also has not happened a launch of a possible MoM or 797, that model would actually take the place of an 767MAX idea.

After the CSeries, Bernstein Research is now weighing in on the NMA niche.....

http://leehamnews.com/2017/11/08/new-mission-focus-nma/
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:24 pm

Devilfish wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
There is also has not happened a launch of a possible MoM or 797, that model would actually take the place of an 767MAX idea.

After the CSeries, Bernstein Research is now weighing in on the NMA niche.....

http://leehamnews.com/2017/11/08/new-mission-focus-nma/


So as I posted many times, the return of the domestic widebody with TATL capability. I agree with the analyst there is a much larger market there. If Boeing is going to do this its going to get its R&D money's worth and it will tie in closely to the 737 replacement also.
 
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:43 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
All the information we have up to now, is that UA asked Boeing for the price of a few late model 767-300ER. Boeing does have to asked its suppliers for prices for parts not produced the last four years. Boeing seems not to have to kept up the ability to produce a few 767-300ER.

There is no information about other airlines having asked for new build 767-300ER.

There is also has not happened a launch of a possible MoM or 797, that model would actually take the place of an 767MAX idea.

Producing a batch of 767-300ER for UA would IMO greatly reduce the possibility of the 797 being launched.

Boeing didn't see a need to produce more 767s over the current production rates because,

1) The 787 and A330 and even the A321 has captured most of the legacy 767 market.
2) The second hand 767 market is strong and provides a good alternative to new 767s, that is until Amazon and co came in.
3) The 767 is most likely at the end of the projected product life cycle.

With the low order outlook, Boeing had decided to reduce 767 production rates to what it is right now, and to house the 767 assembly line in the same building as the similarly low production rate 747-8. Thus freeing up space for products that will bring more cashflow eg 787s/777s.

Therefore, Boeing did not see a need to keep up with production rates beyond what is needed.

While there is no confirmed launch of the 797/NMA, the rumors are strong, and even the Boeing slides during the Paris Air Show had provided some teasers on such a plane (grey plane in slides).

As mentioned by a number of others in this thread, it may very well be that the 767 order may be part of a greater 797/NMA deal in which the planes could be swapped for 797s after 10 years or so.
Last edited by jeffrey0032j on Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:46 pm

This had been alluded to in this thread, but not directly asked.

With the cost and space involved with production lines, world it be prudent or worthwhile to design a MOM to be close enough in design that it could be ruin of the same production line as the 767, or are to Manny of the potential weight savings a part of the manufacturing process itself?
 
chiki
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:52 pm

What parts will be difficult to produce now which have been mentioned several times?.
 
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:56 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
With the cost and space involved with production lines, world it be prudent or worthwhile to design a MOM to be close enough in design that it could be ruin of the same production line as the 767, or are to Manny of the potential weight savings a part of the manufacturing process itself?


I'm sure Boeing will be weighing many factors, most of them not related to whether the aircraft would fit well into an existing production process or not, in determining where MOM production will be sited.

In any case the production process will be vastly different from that of the 767, assuming that MOM is a barrel-based CFRP design like the 787. It will be a new assembly line. And the first space at PAE that is likely to be vacant is the 747 space, not the much smaller 767 space.
 
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:57 pm

This thread has been so much fun to read. I know so much more about the 767 than all other 767 threads combined!

But now I’m getting ready exhausted reading the speculations- when is it to be made public that XX airline/s are going to order some 767ER’s?
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:02 pm

VC10er wrote:
When is it to be made public that XX airline/s are going to order some 767ER’s?

Perhaps never. We started with a rumor based on a small fact, now confirmed, that UA asked Boeing for pricing on 767-300ERs. All the rest is speculation if not outright fantasy.
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Polot
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:53 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
This had been alluded to in this thread, but not directly asked.

With the cost and space involved with production lines, world it be prudent or worthwhile to design a MOM to be close enough in design that it could be ruin of the same production line as the 767, or are to Manny of the potential weight savings a part of the manufacturing process itself?

The problem with that idea is that the 767 will continue to be built (albeit at low rates) for many years to come thanks to the USAF. Boeing is not going to artificially gimp an all new plane to make sure it could be feasibly built on the same line as 767s.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:03 pm

speedbird52 wrote:
This is unrelated but does anyone know why the 767 plant isn't included in the Boeing tour?


Well the new FAL is in the back of the building so it's not accessible by non-employees. The 747 line used to the factory tour and then they later added a second overhead walkway between the 777 and 787 FALs for tours.
 
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Polot
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:13 pm

Stitch wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
This is unrelated but does anyone know why the 767 plant isn't included in the Boeing tour?


Well the new FAL is in the back of the building so it's not accessible by non-employees. The 747 line used to the factory tour and then they later added a second overhead walkway between the 777 and 787 FALs for tours.

Wasn't part of the reason for the 777/787 addition was because the 747 line was slowing down so the 777/787 was more interesting to see?
 
fcogafa
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:19 pm

speedbird52 wrote:
This is unrelated but does anyone know why the 767 plant isn't included in the Boeing tour?


Very likely due to the military aspect of the program
 
VC10er
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:59 pm

Funny little story: I traveled with a friend this past summer- there was a 767, 798 and an A350 all within site. I said “one of these planes is about 37 years old (the design not the actual 767 we were looking at) the other 2 are just a few years old and represents the latest in design” my friend being not very interested in airplanes said “they look exactly alike!” I pointed out the differences and he said “so in almost 40 years barely anything changed?” lol
We got on our UA 767 and after we got back to EWR from Europe he said “that was one of the best flights I’ve ever had”
We were in J, and he’s rich so he’s flown J a number of times...so I asked why. He said the old airplane design felt really comfortable. “Better than the 777 we took over” (which was especially odd as we were in First on a 3 Class UA772) he preferred the 767 tube size so much that even though he sat in UA’s old J seat that it was just a better experience, even over a bigger and more private seat. Worth noting that the service and FA was fantastic.
If UA does indeed buy some new 767s I will surely inform him.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:04 pm

Polot wrote:
Wasn't part of the reason for the 777/787 addition was because the 747 line was slowing down so the 777/787 was more interesting to see?


Could very well be. I think it is also that the two FALs are side-by-side helps as folks wants to see the 787 and they can also show the 777 / 777X.

The old 767 FAL was physically isolated from the others as is the new one so it was never practical to include it.
 
speedbird52
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:42 pm

I remember the 767 plant used to be mentioned in the promotional material.
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:54 pm

VC10er wrote:
when is it to be made public that XX airline/s are going to order some 767ER’s?

Perhaps when the old World Airways is finally resurrected? Given the names being dropped, I think a 763LE (for Limited Enhancement) would suit them well... :bigthumbsup: ...

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... cc-443013/


If they get sticker shock on the 787, the shunned Airbus A338 could be a competitive, lower CAPEX option for the longer routes..... :old:

http://leehamnews.com/2017/11/02/airbus ... t-selling/

Quote:
"The A330-800 has fallen into the trap of a non-loved variant. The used aircraft market will be difficult. Lessors won’t touch the type.

The variant is for those airlines that need the range (up to 7,800nm in a 251t variant) and that fly the type until it’s time for the scrap-yard."
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:30 am

seabosdca wrote:
I'm sure Boeing will be weighing many factors, most of them not related to whether the aircraft would fit well into an existing production process or not, in determining where MOM production will be sited.

In any case the production process will be vastly different from that of the 767, assuming that MOM is a barrel-based CFRP design like the 787. It will be a new assembly line. And the first space at PAE that is likely to be vacant is the 747 space, not the much smaller 767 space.


So is this perhaps an argument for nursing the 767 program until the 747 can be shut down and the real estate moved over to a 797?

Yes, I know that the 767 pax. is being pushed by an airline, not by Boeing...
 
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Revelation
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:26 am

NameOmitted wrote:
So is this perhaps an argument for nursing the 767 program until the 747 can be shut down and the real estate moved over to a 797?

Yes, I know that the 767 pax. is being pushed by an airline, not by Boeing...

The USAF tanker contract supplemented by the FX and 5X contracts are all the nursing the 767 line needed.

That's yet another reason why this thread has jumped the shark.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
Newbiepilot
Posts: 3639
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:18 pm

Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:51 am

NameOmitted wrote:
This had been alluded to in this thread, but not directly asked.

With the cost and space involved with production lines, world it be prudent or worthwhile to design a MOM to be close enough in design that it could be ruin of the same production line as the 767, or are to Manny of the potential weight savings a part of the manufacturing process itself?


767 production is more of a spot than a line. The 737, 777 and 787 are using moving production lines. The 767 production is so slow that it doesn't move. They build it in one spot, tow it out and then start the next. To support 767 passenger production again, they may have to expand it, but it takes up very little space.

The 747 production on the other side of the factory takes up two bays. At its slow rate that is where there is a lot of real estate under utilized.
 
xdlx
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Re: Boeing may consider restarting 767 pax model production

Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:02 pm

IF they considered a 764MAX now you have something...... go for both PAX and F versions and they will sell a couple of hundred.

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