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FoxtrotSierra
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Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:05 am

WestJet ordered 20 789's back in May, but they haven't elaborated on actual routes other than "new destinations in Asia and South America, and to expand its service offerings into the European market." Any idea what routes specifically they are aiming for? Will these be the same as AC 787 routes?
 
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qf789
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:14 am

They have only order 10 789's, the other 10 are options
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Cunard
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:32 am

Yes but at least four of those will replace the current four Boeing 767s in service with Westjet and the routes those aircraft are used on such as Hawaii and London which still accounts for the six other 787s on order so the OP raises a good question especially if the options are taking up for the additional ten 787s as to what new destinations.
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AirNovaBAe146
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:42 pm

WestJet is making a lot of noise about flying to Asia, Australia, or South America.

I suspect their initial route network with the 787s will look like a blend of Air Transat and Rouge popular vacation destinations in Europe during the spring/summertime/fall, with Hawaii, some Caribbean turns (CUN/MBJ type destinations), scheduled maintenance, and maybe a more long-range Australia or South American destination thrown in during the winter. Personally I don't think WS will use the airplane to anywhere near their full capabilities until they get 2-3 full years of experience with them, and then they'll start thinking about destinations further afield.
 
caribb
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:08 pm

I hope with these 787s they finally start something out of YUL. Paris is an obvious market but there’s a lot of competition on it. Hawaii might be another possibility YUL-HNL
 
Dominion301
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:41 pm

Cunard wrote:
Yes but at least four of those will replace the current four Boeing 767s in service with Westjet and the routes those aircraft are used on such as Hawaii and London which still accounts for the six other 787s on order so the OP raises a good question especially if the options are taking up for the additional ten 787s as to what new destinations.


If they want to grow frequencies to LGW (especially out of YEG and YWG, where they cut the schedule this summer not due to poor loads, but to vastly improve 763 schedule integrity), they'll need more than 4 787s just for that alone. I imagine YOW-LGW will get launched at some point, but on a 7M8 or 7M7. So let's assume 5 frames for LGW. The majority of LGW flying would shift to Hawaii in winter or other high demand leisure sun routes.

Assume a sixth to do 1x daily YYZ-YYC/YVR rotations in order to rotate 787s throughout the network. That leaves 4 for growth elsewhere.

It's quite evident that WS will need more than 10 frames eventually and will be exercising most if not all of those 10 options.
 
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FA9295
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:01 pm

They will very likely try to compete with Air Canada by starting trans-pacific routes to Asia and continue to expand into Europe along side their already established wide-body aircraft routes to/from London/Gatwick (LGW)...
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:39 pm

They currently fly mostly 737s from Western Canada to Hawaii. I could see the 78s opening up routes to the islands from further east, perhaps further east than the 767s have.
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:00 pm

Once the 4 763s are gone (and not a minute too soon!), I can see something more in Europe... I could even see DXB to tie in with codeshare partner EK somewhat. CDG is probably a good bet, AMS as well, beyond that unless they want to go into the pure vacation markets there is little meat for them to look at.

Asia unless they could get HND i don't really see Japan. China maybe, YVR/YYC/YYZ-PVG/PEK/HKG/CAN/etc are all options not served or underserved by AC at present according some (though personally i think PEK, PVG and HKG are probably overserved...). They do have codesharing with several Chinese airlines so it might be in the realm of possible. Seoul I doubt they would do, KE is a partner and covers Canada well already.

Hawaii not that high on the list... besides replacing the existing 767 services i don't see more 789s from WS going there. It's more likely to get more 737 services with the MAXs coming in.

South America... i don't really know, Canada-South Am is a strange market over the years... LIM, SCL, GRU, GIG, BOG... and more are possible but i don't know how likely WS would be into serving them. They do have some Code Share with LATAM so maybe some kind of hub feed to/from there but... ? Mexico is well within 737 range so unless there is a problem with capacity i doubt the 789s will go there. Panama, Costa Rica are within 737 range. along with all of the Caribbean which are the major markets in Central America from Canada.
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whywhyzee
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:43 pm

They won’t be anything like TS or Rouge according to what they have said. WestJet is not an LCC or a leisure carrier, and they are only continuing to distance thems lives from that idea. They have released a 10 year plan document, which includes their plans for the 787 flying, and confirms it will be a full service 3 class configuration. Document comes from a meeting they held with the Vancouver board of trade. There is a similar event scheduled in Toronto in a few weeks.

https://www.boardoftrade.com/files/even ... tation.pdf
 
Dominion301
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:35 pm

northstardc4m wrote:
Once the 4 763s are gone (and not a minute too soon!), I can see something more in Europe... I could even see DXB to tie in with codeshare partner EK somewhat. CDG is probably a good bet, AMS as well, beyond that unless they want to go into the pure vacation markets there is little meat for them to look at.

Asia unless they could get HND i don't really see Japan. China maybe, YVR/YYC/YYZ-PVG/PEK/HKG/CAN/etc are all options not served or underserved by AC at present according some (though personally i think PEK, PVG and HKG are probably overserved...). They do have codesharing with several Chinese airlines so it might be in the realm of possible. Seoul I doubt they would do, KE is a partner and covers Canada well already.

Hawaii not that high on the list... besides replacing the existing 767 services i don't see more 789s from WS going there. It's more likely to get more 737 services with the MAXs coming in.

South America... i don't really know, Canada-South Am is a strange market over the years... LIM, SCL, GRU, GIG, BOG... and more are possible but i don't know how likely WS would be into serving them. They do have some Code Share with LATAM so maybe some kind of hub feed to/from there but... ? Mexico is well within 737 range so unless there is a problem with capacity i doubt the 789s will go there. Panama, Costa Rica are within 737 range. along with all of the Caribbean which are the major markets in Central America from Canada.


DXB? With what route authority? I think it'll be years before the Government of Canada/Transport Canada will want to grant more weekly frequencies to the ME3.

CDG and AMS (if the airport's not maxed out on slots by then) are safe bets...BUT WS need to vastly improve their French language services. To this day, they still don't offer very good service in French to YUL, YQB, YQM, YSB and YOW. Is it any wonder why they're still not serving the likes of YBG and YUY with Q400s?

Other global codeshare partners' hubs are strong possibilities....but not DXB anytime soon.
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:59 pm

2 airlines 3x weekly each from each country are currently allowed on Canada-UAE... adding WS does not initiate anything by itself. They just can't do YYZ-DXB, but YVR-DXB or YYC-DXB...

Improving french isn't that easy... and it is improving in my recent experience slowly but yes they lag behind AC... though even AC it seems has issues compared to a few years ago staffing good french speaking flight crew.

YBG isn't a market really, AC can't even fill DH8s there much less Q400s even from YUL. I don't think Bagotville has ever had a flight from YYZ?

YUY maybe, YVO as well, but those again are not really economic markets except from YUL... WS has yet to really initiate any kind of hub at YUL so i wouldn't count on it soon. the attempt by Air Alliance at YVO-YUY-YYZ in the late 90s didn't do that well with B1900Ds. Westjet don't seem to be that interested in Quebec local and i don't blame them. Intra-Quebec provincial travel is a difficult nut at the best of times. Canadian never did that well even with it's own Quebec based connection airline. Plus with Porter slowly moving into Quebec more... it's probably not where WS wants to concentrate their efforts.
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1900Driver
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:58 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
They won’t be anything like TS or Rouge according to what they have said. WestJet is not an LCC or a leisure carrier, and they are only continuing to distance thems lives from that idea. They have released a 10 year plan document, which includes their plans for the 787 flying, and confirms it will be a full service 3 class configuration. Document comes from a meeting they held with the Vancouver board of trade. There is a similar event scheduled in Toronto in a few weeks.

https://www.boardoftrade.com/files/even ... tation.pdf


Shameful how this CEO has departed the very successful LCC startegy into unknown territories. For what, so he could accomplish his Canadian airline vision. I Fail to see how going to China is going to stimulate any growth, as point of sale from canada is covered & ws lacks a proper int network. Why anyone would go up against Chinese carriers in the low margin business & blow your brains out is beyond me. Burn the cash instead of giving it back to shareholders?

This is where it starts...
 
whywhyzee
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:45 pm

1900Driver wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
They won’t be anything like TS or Rouge according to what they have said. WestJet is not an LCC or a leisure carrier, and they are only continuing to distance thems lives from that idea. They have released a 10 year plan document, which includes their plans for the 787 flying, and confirms it will be a full service 3 class configuration. Document comes from a meeting they held with the Vancouver board of trade. There is a similar event scheduled in Toronto in a few weeks.

https://www.boardoftrade.com/files/even ... tation.pdf


Shameful how this CEO has departed the very successful LCC startegy into unknown territories. For what, so he could accomplish his Canadian airline vision. I Fail to see how going to China is going to stimulate any growth, as point of sale from canada is covered & ws lacks a proper int network. Why anyone would go up against Chinese carriers in the low margin business & blow your brains out is beyond me. Burn the cash instead of giving it back to shareholders?

This is where it starts...


Full service is a much bigger market, there is so much potential. Demand to china from Canada right now is incredibly high, and is one of the fastest growing international markets from Canada, and has strong yields. Simply put, I think they have outgrown the LCC business model and are moving in the right direction, commensurate with the way the Canadian market is moving.
 
Whiteguy
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:01 pm

northstardc4m wrote:
2 airlines 3x weekly each from each country are currently allowed on Canada-UAE... adding WS does not initiate anything by itself. They just can't do YYZ-DXB, but YVR-DXB or YYC-DXB...


Why not YYZ-DXB, nothing to stop them from operating it...
 
Runway28L
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:09 pm

Going outside the box here. I think during the low season for TATL it's possible that MCO could get one. Would be great for increasing utilization during late winter or early spring and there should be plenty of demand during that period.
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:52 pm

Whiteguy wrote:
northstardc4m wrote:
2 airlines 3x weekly each from each country are currently allowed on Canada-UAE... adding WS does not initiate anything by itself. They just can't do YYZ-DXB, but YVR-DXB or YYC-DXB...


Why not YYZ-DXB, nothing to stop them from operating it...


I believe the agreement limits each route to one airline per country... AC already flies YYZ-DXB... i may be wrong though.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
INFINITI329
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:52 am

Im kind of surprised they went with the 789s vs 788s. On paper, I feel like the 788 would be a better fit for WS than the 789
 
Whiteguy
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:57 am

northstardc4m wrote:
Whiteguy wrote:
northstardc4m wrote:
2 airlines 3x weekly each from each country are currently allowed on Canada-UAE... adding WS does not initiate anything by itself. They just can't do YYZ-DXB, but YVR-DXB or YYC-DXB...


Why not YYZ-DXB, nothing to stop them from operating it...


I believe the agreement limits each route to one airline per country... AC already flies YYZ-DXB... i may be wrong though.


No limit on the route, just the 3 slots max per airline between the countries. EK and EY both operate 3 flights each.
 
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FoxtrotSierra
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:20 am

Runway28L wrote:
Going outside the box here. I think during the low season for TATL it's possible that MCO could get one. Would be great for increasing utilization during late winter or early spring and there should be plenty of demand during that period.


Man I hope so!
 
whywhyzee
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:47 am

Runway28L wrote:
Going outside the box here. I think during the low season for TATL it's possible that MCO could get one. Would be great for increasing utilization during late winter or early spring and there should be plenty of demand during that period.


I highly doubt that will ever happen. It’s not going to be configured in a way toat would be designed for short haul flying to a lower yielding market. The 787 will be a very different product for WS, one that is reflective of a huge identity change within the company.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:17 am

Whiteguy wrote:
northstardc4m wrote:
Whiteguy wrote:

Why not YYZ-DXB, nothing to stop them from operating it...


I believe the agreement limits each route to one airline per country... AC already flies YYZ-DXB... i may be wrong though.


No limit on the route, just the 3 slots max per airline between the countries. EK and EY both operate 3 flights each.


The bilateral allows for 6 flights per week on each side. I think I was mistaken as I thought AC were using all 6 of the weekly frequencies on the Canada side for YYZ-DXB. So at this point, unless AC snaps them up, WS could add DXB 3x weekly. However, I'd imagine there are about 50 potential routes ranked well ahead of DXB.
 
jmt18325
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:27 am

Dominion301 wrote:
Whiteguy wrote:
northstardc4m wrote:

I believe the agreement limits each route to one airline per country... AC already flies YYZ-DXB... i may be wrong though.


No limit on the route, just the 3 slots max per airline between the countries. EK and EY both operate 3 flights each.


The bilateral allows for 6 flights per week on each side. I think I was mistaken as I thought AC were using all 6 of the weekly frequencies on the Canada side for YYZ-DXB. So at this point, unless AC snaps them up, WS could add DXB 3x weekly. However, I'd imagine there are about 50 potential routes ranked well ahead of DXB.


Air Canada isn't allowed to do more than 3 per week. The other 3 can only go to another carrier.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:53 am

jmt18325 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
Whiteguy wrote:

No limit on the route, just the 3 slots max per airline between the countries. EK and EY both operate 3 flights each.


The bilateral allows for 6 flights per week on each side. I think I was mistaken as I thought AC were using all 6 of the weekly frequencies on the Canada side for YYZ-DXB. So at this point, unless AC snaps them up, WS could add DXB 3x weekly. However, I'd imagine there are about 50 potential routes ranked well ahead of DXB.


Air Canada isn't allowed to do more than 3 per week. The other 3 can only go to another carrier.


Actually as per the bilateral, as long as both countries agree, one airline can apply for and receive approval to operate more than 3 weekly:

"The operation of a frequency beyond three flights per week by any one designated airline shall be subject to the approval of the aeronautical authorities of both Contracting Parties."
 
1900Driver
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:20 am

whywhyzee wrote:
1900Driver wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
They won’t be anything like TS or Rouge according to what they have said. WestJet is not an LCC or a leisure carrier, and they are only continuing to distance thems lives from that idea. They have released a 10 year plan document, which includes their plans for the 787 flying, and confirms it will be a full service 3 class configuration. Document comes from a meeting they held with the Vancouver board of trade. There is a similar event scheduled in Toronto in a few weeks.

https://www.boardoftrade.com/files/even ... tation.pdf


Shameful how this CEO has departed the very successful LCC startegy into unknown territories. For what, so he could accomplish his Canadian airline vision. I Fail to see how going to China is going to stimulate any growth, as point of sale from canada is covered & ws lacks a proper int network. Why anyone would go up against Chinese carriers in the low margin business & blow your brains out is beyond me. Burn the cash instead of giving it back to shareholders?

This is where it starts...


Full service is a much bigger market, there is so much potential. Demand to china from Canada right now is incredibly high, and is one of the fastest growing international markets from Canada, and has strong yields. Simply put, I think they have outgrown the LCC business model and are moving in the right direction, commensurate with the way the Canadian market is moving.


Strong yields to China? Really? Most readers here know that China yields have been trashed by Chinese carriers. AC has a strong J business, but do you really think premium clients will switch to Westjet? Intuitively, they would have to be forced to compete in VFR traffic with Chinese carriers, & will probably end up blowing their brains out. All that with a terrible slot into PVG or PEK. Suicide unless they could get codesharing, but who would want to work with WS??

Ya they sort of grown out of the LCC model, but unnecessarily! Rather then focusing on growing organically within their model & increasing shareholder payouts, Saretsky has decided to blow the cash on an empty bet!

Full disclosure, I am a former disgruntled shareholder.
 
thgsr08
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:14 am

AirNovaBAe146 wrote:
WestJet is making a lot of noise about flying to Asia, Australia, or South America.

I suspect their initial route network with the 787s will look like a blend of Air Transat and Rouge popular vacation destinations in Europe during the spring/summertime/fall, with Hawaii, some Caribbean turns (CUN/MBJ type destinations), scheduled maintenance, and maybe a more long-range Australia or South American destination thrown in during the winter. Personally I don't think WS will use the airplane to anywhere near their full capabilities until they get 2-3 full years of experience with them, and then they'll start thinking about destinations further afield.


I've seen something about it when they announced 787-9's on its fleet. Asia, Australia and South America, and giving the 767's to Swoop.
:checkeredflag:
 
QF744ER
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:49 am

What’s with all the negative sentiment with their B763’s? They were only intended to be a short term measure whilst WS branched into wide bodied and long-haul services.
 
Whiteguy
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:13 am

The B763s are sticking around for a while, and no they're not going to Swoop. As of now anyway.....
 
bunumuring
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:20 am

Hey guys,
Australia being mentioned?
Wow, bit of a surprise considering Air Canada's growing presence in the market and Qantas' inconsistent record of flights to Vancouver over the years.
But Canada 3000 carved out a good little niche market a long time ago and were reportedly fairly successful with their Aussie routes from what I can remember.... and I realise that Canada 3000 and Westjet are very different creatures but both were/are in the same situation of looking to take on Air Canada and Qantas transpacific - both powerful Giants and well-known I would argue in both markets. Westjet has next to zero public 'presence' in Australia ...
Cheers,
Bunumuring.
I just wanna live while I'm alive!
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:31 am

Dominion301 wrote:
It's quite evident that WS will need more than 10 frames eventually and will be exercising most if not all of those 10 options.

Assuming of course that they don't lose their shirts, and decide to go back to their roots while the resale value for 787s is relatively high.

Perhaps not likely, but still very much a plausible possibility.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Kiwinlondon
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:04 pm

How about AKL?

Kiwinlondon
 
whywhyzee
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:09 pm

They did come out and say they want to serve 5 continents by the mid 2020’s or so, and their prospective route map I linked includes a huge amount of potential routes. Realistically speaking, they won’t do it all, that would take 60 planes, but I think it’s safe to assume that provided things work out, those options will get converted in short order. There is a lot of optimism in the company right now, people generally seem to back this idea. I wish them well, no doubt it’s a huge task, but I think they are entering a market that is rapidly growing and will appreciate the added capacity. My one fear is irrops and their small fleet size, they need to really establish a metwork with other carriers and have contingency plans in place.

For anyone who missed the route map: https://www.boardoftrade.com/files/even ... tation.pdf
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:28 pm

Was it mentioned earlier this year or in 2016 that they were looking at other european destinations? How about Paris, Berlin, Rome?
 
SWADawg
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:34 pm

I'm actually still shocked that WS took 767's let alone 789's. They are a small LCC that thinks they can follow the failed business model of Canadian Airlines and be successful. Canada just isn't a big enough country to support two global full service carriers. WS should have stayed with what made them a successful LCC and used the MAX to slowly grow their long haul and then wait for the MOM/797 from Boeing. That's exactly the strategy that WN is using, and the argument could be made that WN would be more successful deploying 787's across the pond than WS given the size and scale of their operation and route map to say nothing of the size of the US market compared to Canada, and even they aren't contemplating anything bigger until the 797 is launched. Good luck to WS but I think they're going to have some difficulty transitioning from a LCC into a hybrid full service carrier.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
1900Driver
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:49 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
It's quite evident that WS will need more than 10 frames eventually and will be exercising most if not all of those 10 options.

Assuming of course that they don't lose their shirts, and decide to go back to their roots while the resale value for 787s is relatively high.

Perhaps not likely, but still very much a plausible possibility.


Agreed!
 
1900Driver
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:59 pm

SWADawg wrote:
I'm actually still shocked that WS took 767's let alone 789's. They are a small LCC that thinks they can follow the failed business model of Canadian Airlines and be successful. Canada just isn't a big enough country to support two global full service carriers. WS should have stayed with what made them a successful LCC and used the MAX to slowly grow their long haul and then wait for the MOM/797 from Boeing. That's exactly the strategy that WN is using, and the argument could be made that WN would be more successful deploying 787's across the pond than WS given the size and scale of their operation and route map to say nothing of the size of the US market compared to Canada, and even they aren't contemplating anything bigger until the 797 is launched. Good luck to WS but I think they're going to have some difficulty transitioning from a LCC into a hybrid full service carrier.


You have to examine the history of the present CEO to have a clear picture of what’s going on. Despite spending much time with Alaska, his roots are from Canadian airlines.

WS was once a brilliant & simple LCC that worked, and can continue to work. Shareholders would have been happy with mid-high single digit conservative growth while increasing dividend payouts, in the present environment. Now Saretsky is going to blow the cash instead of giving it back to shareholders, just to satisfy his dream??

Look at their strategy, it’s a mess! ULCC, combined with 787s configured J lie flats??
 
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Slash787
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:02 pm

I have a feeling of YYR to NRT
 
Clarrrrrrr
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:19 pm

In my opinion I think Westjet may use one or two of there 787s on maybe a YVR-MNL route or maybe codeshare with Singapore airlines because currently Singapore Airlines has no service to Canada at all. The reason I think they may use some 787s on the YVR-MNL route is that only Philippine Airlines is the only airline that flies between that route and Air Canada hasn't started a route yet for it.
 
jfk777
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:02 am

Gatwick will most certainly be a 787 city. These planes will have lie flat J class seats so Westjet will do something new like Sydney, Australia or Tokyo. With a 787-9 the destination they could go to has few bounds.
 
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admanager
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:29 am

My speculation is YYZ - TLV. Canada and Israel signed a new air services agreement just this year to allow increased service. I believe there had to be some impetus for this action.
Then again I was wrong once before.
 
zkncj
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:41 am

YVR-AKL could be an option is currently only served by NZ who durring peak months operate up-to 10 weekly. Its an heavy leasure route, and with high prices currently makes an good entry point e.g. not going to be to much of an blood bath with pricing.
 
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TS-IOR
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:12 pm

Could they look for North/West Africa out of Montreal. CMN goes double daily with RAM and daily with Rouge being transferred to mainline Air Canada this summer. ALG gets Air Algerie and Rouge 10 plus per week, and TUN is growing as well. As VFR destinations they may fit in the WestJet market.
 
s4popo
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:34 pm

I'm sure they can fill them up to FLL in the winter.
 
whywhyzee
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:24 pm

According to a meeting that occured with employees, it's likely most if not all the 787 flying will be out of YYZ, with the first destination either being in China, India, or Japan. This was discussed when the new CEO briefed employees. They noted that YYZ has more revenue potential for them then the rest of the country combined.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:52 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
jmt18325 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:

The bilateral allows for 6 flights per week on each side. I think I was mistaken as I thought AC were using all 6 of the weekly frequencies on the Canada side for YYZ-DXB. So at this point, unless AC snaps them up, WS could add DXB 3x weekly. However, I'd imagine there are about 50 potential routes ranked well ahead of DXB.


Air Canada isn't allowed to do more than 3 per week. The other 3 can only go to another carrier.


Actually as per the bilateral, as long as both countries agree, one airline can apply for and receive approval to operate more than 3 weekly:

"The operation of a frequency beyond three flights per week by any one designated airline shall be subject to the approval of the aeronautical authorities of both Contracting Parties."

Why would the UAE agree? They want more slots. So if AC wants more, sign an expanded bilateral. The problem of one side not budging is there is no incentive for the other to accommodate.

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klakzky123
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:08 pm

jmt18325 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
Whiteguy wrote:

No limit on the route, just the 3 slots max per airline between the countries. EK and EY both operate 3 flights each.


The bilateral allows for 6 flights per week on each side. I think I was mistaken as I thought AC were using all 6 of the weekly frequencies on the Canada side for YYZ-DXB. So at this point, unless AC snaps them up, WS could add DXB 3x weekly. However, I'd imagine there are about 50 potential routes ranked well ahead of DXB.


Air Canada isn't allowed to do more than 3 per week. The other 3 can only go to another carrier.


It's 3 per an airline unless there isn't another airline to take the other 3. In that case, the airline with 3 slots can petition to get the other 3 slots. AC did exactly that. EK had the opportunity to do the same but was busy protesting the restrictive bilateral so EY eventually came around and took 3. Either way, Westjet is locked out of DXB as a result.
 
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:12 pm

Next to Shanghai, Hong Kong or Tokyo?
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:54 pm

klakzky123 wrote:
jmt18325 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:

The bilateral allows for 6 flights per week on each side. I think I was mistaken as I thought AC were using all 6 of the weekly frequencies on the Canada side for YYZ-DXB. So at this point, unless AC snaps them up, WS could add DXB 3x weekly. However, I'd imagine there are about 50 potential routes ranked well ahead of DXB.


Air Canada isn't allowed to do more than 3 per week. The other 3 can only go to another carrier.


It's 3 per an airline unless there isn't another airline to take the other 3. In that case, the airline with 3 slots can petition to get the other 3 slots. AC did exactly that. EK had the opportunity to do the same but was busy protesting the restrictive bilateral so EY eventually came around and took 3. Either way, Westjet is locked out of DXB as a result.

AC only flies three times a week to the UAE, so Westjet should be able to grab the other 3 currently not used.
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eamondzhang
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:09 am

SQ789 wrote:
Next to Shanghai, Hong Kong or Tokyo?

Unless they flies YYC-PVG they won't have a chance securing great slots at PVG. It's severely limited right now and the most probable slot that they *might* get is one between 0200-0600. YYC may have a better chance since it would be a new destination to PVG, which normally gets a better slot allocated.

Michael
 
cumulushumilis
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Re: Where will WestJet fly its 787's?

Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:13 am

whywhyzee wrote:
According to a meeting that occured with employees, it's likely most if not all the 787 flying will be out of YYZ, with the first destination either being in China, India, or Japan. This was discussed when the new CEO briefed employees. They noted that YYZ has more revenue potential for them then the rest of the country combined.


With the construction of the new high bay hangar in YYC and the fact that it’s only three frames to be delivered in Q1 of 2019, I would summarize that the three frames will stay close to home and will likely cycle through YYC in the same rotation or similar rotation that the 767s currently do. Maybe a through a new route to Asia. WS is not eager to repeat the aggressive flying program that the 767s did early on. The growth will be cautious and measured due to the aircraft type, class of service and complexity of operations. There are a lot of moving parts coming into play, and execution will be key in putting these birds into successfully into service. YYC and YYZ will most likely get the lions share of the flying, but with three aircraft in service in service in 2019 it won’t be too exotic.

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