SpaceshipDC10
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Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:40 am

Since previous orders were based on 2013 requirements, AC could exercise a unknown of the outstanding options it holds for 737MAX (48) and CS300 (30). First two 737MAX will be delivered this year whereas Bombardier's will start arriving in two years.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air-can ... -1.4370933
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:50 am

The chances are that the next recession will arrive before any of those new planes do.
 
yyztpa
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:58 am

This comes after Air Canada reported record 3rd quarter results.
http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/ai ... 89153.html
 
behramjee
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:41 am

ACs incremental orders should be for CS3s and B789s mainly as these are the best aircraft for them in the long run.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:12 pm

behramjee wrote:
ACs incremental orders should be for CS3s and B789s mainly as these are the best aircraft for them in the long run.


I'm sure they know what's best for them in the long run.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:40 pm

behramjee wrote:
ACs incremental orders should be for CS3s and B789s mainly as these are the best aircraft for them in the long run.


I think the 7M8 too and they specifically mentioned that. I think AC are just beginning to realize how many possible 7M8 transatlantic routes they can open up. Not only out of YYZ and YUL, but opening thinner routes out of secondary markets like YOW/YQB-CDG for example.

"The first two Boeing 737 Max planes will arrive this year and 16 more by next June."

How many (if any) 319/320s are scheduled to leave the fleet in the next 8-9 months? If none, then there's still a lot more 7M8 expansion AC could announce.

Is the 319-321 mainline-Rouge swap still planned?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:56 pm

behramjee wrote:
ACs incremental orders should be for CS3s and B789s mainly as these are the best aircraft for them in the long run.


'Best' aircraft can't be known without consideration of utilization of other aircraft in the fleet, expected evolution of the route network, and acquisition and operating cost.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:03 pm

I’m expecting some 737-10s to be ordered along with some 789s. Maybe some more CSeries as well but that is under 737-8 in terms of capacity and they already have quite a bit in that range.
 
Whiteguy
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:34 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
behramjee wrote:
ACs incremental orders should be for CS3s and B789s mainly as these are the best aircraft for them in the long run.


I think the 7M8 too and they specifically mentioned that. I think AC are just beginning to realize how many possible 7M8 transatlantic routes they can open up. Not only out of YYZ and YUL, but opening thinner routes out of secondary markets like YOW/YQB-CDG for example.

"The first two Boeing 737 Max planes will arrive this year and 16 more by next June."

How many (if any) 319/320s are scheduled to leave the fleet in the next 8-9 months? If none, then there's still a lot more 7M8 expansion AC could announce.

Is the 319-321 mainline-Rouge swap still planned?


I believe there are A319s planned to leave before any 320s, not sure if it's in the next 8-9 months....
 
Skywatcher
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:39 pm

I hope they go with the C-series. Boeing is very much unloved in Canada right now. The "Boeing is great for Canada" marketing ads all over the Canadian media aren't working.
 
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:47 pm

I myself wonder about the A321s getting increased in mainline. They keep changing their language regarding them to now saying “they’ll supplement the 737s” hence the repainting. As it stands they don’t have a lot of 737-9s on order and as long as Rouge has Airbuses, it’s still a common type. Just a hunch though...
Flown: C172-M/N/P/R/S , P2006T, PA-34-200T, DH8A/C Been on: B1900D, DH8A/C ERJ-145, CRJ-100/200, DH8D, CRJ-700/705/900, E-175/190, A319/320/321, 737-200/300/400/600/700/800/900ER/M8, MD-82/83, 757-200/300, 767-300, A330-300, 787-9, 777-300ER, F28-4000.
 
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:00 pm

Be a great time for Air Canada to ditch some of the MAX options and go for the A321LR for what's left of the long-thin 767 routes.
 
whywhyzee
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:01 pm

I’d like to see so,e 787-10’s as part of the 787 options exercised, rather then the -9. For what should be essentially the same operating cost, they gain access to ~ 50 more seats, and they have a huge network of routes that does not need the range. Narrow body side, I know they are looking for a better option then the 737-9, they don’t want to take any as it stands, The 737-10 would be a shoe in, but they don’t seem interested, probably because it can’t effectively do TATL. The 797 will likely be watched very closely. In the mean time, the A321’s are essentially replacing what would have been the 737-9 flying as it would seem. I also know they are looking at adding used A333’s as an intermediary solution. Exciting times ahead.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:24 pm

ACCS300 wrote:
Be a great time for Air Canada to ditch some of the MAX options and go for the A321LR for what's left of the long-thin 767 routes.


Aside from flights between YYZ and other major Canadian cities to the west and to the Maritimes; flights to LAX, SFO and sometimes LGA; lately the 767s have been used on YYC-NRT, YHZ/YYT/YOW-LHR as well as YOW-FRA, YYZ-AMS & YUL-LYS. Which of those do you think could be better served with the Aitbus?
 
AirbusCanada
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:25 pm

They used to have a Factory in Arnprior, Ontario which makes components for commercial aircraft.
The Plant used to employ about 400 people. Arnprior is about 1 hour west of Ottawa.

They sold it to Consolidated Industries in 2005.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... ion-plant/
Last edited by AirbusCanada on Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
beechnut
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:30 pm

Whiteguy wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
behramjee wrote:
ACs incremental orders should be for CS3s and B789s mainly as these are the best aircraft for them in the long run.


I think the 7M8 too and they specifically mentioned that. I think AC are just beginning to realize how many possible 7M8 transatlantic routes they can open up. Not only out of YYZ and YUL, but opening thinner routes out of secondary markets like YOW/YQB-CDG for example.

"The first two Boeing 737 Max planes will arrive this year and 16 more by next June."

How many (if any) 319/320s are scheduled to leave the fleet in the next 8-9 months? If none, then there's still a lot more 7M8 expansion AC could announce.

Is the 319-321 mainline-Rouge swap still planned?


As per the investor relations document on their website, the first A319 retirements will be 8 aircraft in 2018.

I believe there are A319s planned to leave before any 320s, not sure if it's in the next 8-9 months....


According to the quarterly report, 8 A319s will leave the fleet in 2018. No A320 retirements are planned between now and December 2018.

Beech
 
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:50 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
ACCS300 wrote:
Be a great time for Air Canada to ditch some of the MAX options and go for the A321LR for what's left of the long-thin 767 routes.


Aside from flights between YYZ and other major Canadian cities to the west and to the Maritimes; flights to LAX, SFO and sometimes LGA; lately the 767s have been used on YYC-NRT, YHZ/YYT/YOW-LHR as well as YOW-FRA, YYZ-AMS & YUL-LYS. Which of those do you think could be better served with the Aitbus?


The A321LR can operate all those legs, except YYC-NRT.

YHZ/YOW/YYT-LHR & YOW-FRA are ideal A321LR routes. YYZ-AMS and YUL-LYS have the demand for larger equipment. I hope AC orders the plane !
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:56 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:

Aside from flights between YYZ and other major Canadian cities to the west and to the Maritimes; flights to LAX, SFO and sometimes LGA; lately the 767s have been used on YYC-NRT, YHZ/YYT/YOW-LHR as well as YOW-FRA, YYZ-AMS & YUL-LYS. Which of those do you think could be better served with the Aitbus?


The A321LR can operate all those legs, except YYC-NRT.
YHZ/YOW/YYT-LHR & YOW-FRA are ideal A321LR routes.

YYZ-AMS and YUL-LYS have the demand for larger equipment.


We know the A321LR can fly those routes. Can we PLEASE not turn another thread into AC should buy the A321neo? This thread is about exercising Boeing options.


Cite where the thread is specific about Boeing orders, or are you dictating that yourself because you are a Boeing fanatic?

And yes they should... if they’ve committed to the 321 as they have factually done, then why is it such a bad thing to say and think they should order NEOs!
Flown: C172-M/N/P/R/S , P2006T, PA-34-200T, DH8A/C Been on: B1900D, DH8A/C ERJ-145, CRJ-100/200, DH8D, CRJ-700/705/900, E-175/190, A319/320/321, 737-200/300/400/600/700/800/900ER/M8, MD-82/83, 757-200/300, 767-300, A330-300, 787-9, 777-300ER, F28-4000.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:59 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
The A321LR can operate all those legs, except YYC-NRT.

YHZ/YOW/YYT-LHR & YOW-FRA are ideal A321LR routes. YYZ-AMS and YUL-LYS have the demand for larger equipment. I hope AC orders the plane !


This is exactly what I had in mind when asking, not the technical aspect.
 
jetmechanicdave
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:57 pm

Thanks guys for keeping on topic.
Aircraft Mechanic and Airliners.net Forum Moderator
 
bmacleod
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:05 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
ACCS300 wrote:
Be a great time for Air Canada to ditch some of the MAX options and go for the A321LR for what's left of the long-thin 767 routes.


Aside from flights between YYZ and other major Canadian cities to the west and to the Maritimes; flights to LAX, SFO and sometimes LGA; lately the 767s have been used on YYC-NRT, YHZ/YYT/YOW-LHR as well as YOW-FRA, YYZ-AMS & YUL-LYS. Which of those do you think could be better served with the Aitbus?


The A321LR can operate all those legs, except YYC-NRT.

YHZ/YOW/YYT-LHR & YOW-FRA are ideal A321LR routes. YYZ-AMS and YUL-LYS have the demand for larger equipment. I hope AC orders the plane !


With the Bombardier/Airbus partnership and Air Canada also headquartered in Montreal; anything is possible.... :stirthepot:
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
MapleLeaf789
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:42 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
behramjee wrote:
ACs incremental orders should be for CS3s and B789s mainly as these are the best aircraft for them in the long run.


I think the 7M8 too and they specifically mentioned that. I think AC are just beginning to realize how many possible 7M8 transatlantic routes they can open up. Not only out of YYZ and YUL, but opening thinner routes out of secondary markets like YOW/YQB-CDG for example.


I have felt this for a while now re: expansion.

I think AC is set to grow considerably over the next decade.

I think they are also starting to really appreciate the possibilities of Canadian airports for connections. If this goes through, I wonder if it's the push that will get the final pier completed at Pearson?
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:55 pm

The other question I have actually while we're on about options here is if they'll make Jazz take their outstanding options. I remember a while back there was a thing about AC wanting to help make them more cost effective.
Flown: C172-M/N/P/R/S , P2006T, PA-34-200T, DH8A/C Been on: B1900D, DH8A/C ERJ-145, CRJ-100/200, DH8D, CRJ-700/705/900, E-175/190, A319/320/321, 737-200/300/400/600/700/800/900ER/M8, MD-82/83, 757-200/300, 767-300, A330-300, 787-9, 777-300ER, F28-4000.
 
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:56 pm

Do Canadians care if Air Canada orders from Boeing after all this bullying?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
airzona11
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:03 pm

ACCS300 wrote:
Be a great time for Air Canada to ditch some of the MAX options and go for the A321LR for what's left of the long-thin 767 routes.


But what does that solve for them if demand is increasing? The A321 is no closer to size replacing the 767 vs a 739/10. The 767s seat more. More 787s or MoM sized plane (including bigger version of A321) is what would be ideal for AC. YVR and YYZ are great hubs to Asia Pac and Europe.
 
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:04 pm

MapleLeaf789 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
behramjee wrote:
ACs incremental orders should be for CS3s and B789s mainly as these are the best aircraft for them in the long run.


I think the 7M8 too and they specifically mentioned that. I think AC are just beginning to realize how many possible 7M8 transatlantic routes they can open up. Not only out of YYZ and YUL, but opening thinner routes out of secondary markets like YOW/YQB-CDG for example.


I have felt this for a while now re: expansion.

I think AC is set to grow considerably over the next decade.

I think they are also starting to really appreciate the possibilities of Canadian airports for connections. If this goes through, I wonder if it's the push that will get the final pier completed at Pearson?


The whole pier issue at YYZ is an interesting one. They just built a new ground level pier where the new main pier is supposed to be, opened a few weeks ago, used for regional flights and such. I get the feeling this new pier has been put off indefinitely because they can’t lose the regional pier. They have started handstand loading and unloading for T1 international flights at the H stands, I think their best option at this point would be to build more permanent structures, much like LAX had before TBIT to act as satellite boarding stands. T3 is also woefully inadequate, not to mention WS is poised to grow quite significantly as well. There isn’t really any space to grow T3, and the Infield terminal is slated for demolition to build a new Westjet hangar and de-ice pad. The 2north/south runways are currently under review to potentially close as far as I understand (why I have no idea). That would free a ton of space for a new infield terminal. I think it’s evident that there is much more to it then meets the eye. There is no way they wouldn’t be building the new T1pier if they didn’t have some idea up their sleeve. At least they are proving flexible with bus boarding and such.
 
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:11 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Do Canadians care if Air Canada orders from Boeing after all this bullying?


This Canadian would be OK if no Boeing aircraft would be purchased by any Canadian airline from now on (no, I have no ties to the Canadian aerospace industry). But in general, I'd say that a normal, non-aviation geek Canadian doesn't care. He probably doesn't even know about the whole affair.
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Dutchy
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:22 pm

WildcatYXU wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Do Canadians care if Air Canada orders from Boeing after all this bullying?


This Canadian would be OK if no Boeing aircraft would be purchased by any Canadian airline from now on (no, I have no ties to the Canadian aerospace industry). But in general, I'd say that a normal, non-aviation geek Canadian doesn't care. He probably doesn't even know about the whole affair.


Really? Not really a topic in Canada? It was even a topic in the general news in The Netherlands abeit small, but still.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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yowza
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:28 pm

Bit out of left field: It's clear the A330's are sticking around for a while. Could this allow for some 330CEO or NEOs to sneak into the conversation? Maintaining a sub-fleet of 8 is probably not ideal but if that were to grow a little it could provide a nice hedge of sorts to fleet planning. The NEO in particular could be interesting as it can hit a 310 pax config which would provide a small nudge above the 789 and with the NEO's range most interesting missions out of YUL, YVR, and YYZ would be no problem...

YOWza
 
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:29 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
I also know they are looking at adding used A333’s as an intermediary solution.


Does anyone have any more information about this. So far, AC has planned 9 daily transatlantic flights on the 333 for the upcoming summer months (July/August), plus a daily YUL-YVR-YUL rotation. The current eight 333s will not be enough...

YYZ-AMS (daily)
YYZ-MUC (daily)
YYZ-DUB (daily)
YUL-CDG (daily)
YUL-BRU (daily)
YUL-GVA (daily)
YUL-FCO (daily)
YUL-LYS (x47)
YUL-CMN (daily)
YUL-YVR (daily)
Next flights: YQM-YUL-MIA-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-LYS-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-FRA-MLA-FRA-YUL-YQM
 
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:30 pm

Dutchy wrote:
WildcatYXU wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Do Canadians care if Air Canada orders from Boeing after all this bullying?


This Canadian would be OK if no Boeing aircraft would be purchased by any Canadian airline from now on (no, I have no ties to the Canadian aerospace industry). But in general, I'd say that a normal, non-aviation geek Canadian doesn't care. He probably doesn't even know about the whole affair.


Really? Not really a topic in Canada? It was even a topic in the general news in The Netherlands abeit small, but still.

It's been fairly quiet till now but as talks of NAFTA and other friction with the US surfaces it will become a more prominent point of conversation

YOWza
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:34 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Really? Not really a topic in Canada? It was even a topic in the general news in The Netherlands abeit small, but still.


Well, you can see some news on TV and read about it in the newspapers, but i don't hear people talking about it. People here (London, Ontario) talk more about the strike at the CAMI plant in Ingersoll and GM threatening to move that crapbox production they have there to Mexico.
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:41 pm

WildcatYXU wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Really? Not really a topic in Canada? It was even a topic in the general news in The Netherlands abeit small, but still.


Well, you can see some news on TV and read about it in the newspapers, but i don't hear people talking about it. People here (London, Ontario) talk more about the strike at the CAMI plant in Ingersoll and GM threatening to move that crapbox production they have there to Mexico.


Interesting. Thanks for the info.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Jawaiiansky66
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:46 pm

Dutchy wrote:
WildcatYXU wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Do Canadians care if Air Canada orders from Boeing after all this bullying?


This Canadian would be OK if no Boeing aircraft would be purchased by any Canadian airline from now on (no, I have no ties to the Canadian aerospace industry). But in general, I'd say that a normal, non-aviation geek Canadian doesn't care. He probably doesn't even know about the whole affair.


Really? Not really a topic in Canada? It was even a topic in the general news in The Netherlands abeit small, but still.



Whats fascinating is that after BOEING made that accusation against Bombardier, they started an aggressive Canada wide advertising campaign that basically said to Canadians that we are your friends, we employ about 2000 of you nationally and that we still want your business. Wild. Seriously?

http://www.news1130.com/2017/10/25/boei ... -backlash/
 
thumper76
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:11 pm

Air canada announced publicly that they intend to in the future use rouge to complete against the ulcc's after jetlines announced startup in 2018. This plan to use rouge (barely be able to call a lcc) to complete against a ulcc has intrigued me. Rouge is not set up to compete against ulcc's= major loss leader=? Would Air Canada be able to best compete against ulcc's with rouge using cs300 (less seats but more frequencies) to match all ulcc's markets and still make a profit with rouges model?
If this is so... Flying within Canada and Canada to the US just got awesome!!!
 
ytz
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Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:26 pm

I find Air Canada's case most curious. I noticed a few days back that the order mix had changed for the MAX8/MAX9 from 33/28 to 49/12. And that's to replace 42 A320s and 15 A321s. So it really seems curious that they are not replacing the 321s with 1:1 MAX9 fleet.

They also have to get on to replacing Rouge's fleet at some point. I assume this is where their options come in. They've got 25 A319s and 5 A321s to replace. Do they up gauge with MAX8s when replacing A319s. Or do they use the CS300 as replacements? The CS300 in a Rouge config would do 135-140 seats. So basically a perfect 1:1 replacement.

airzona11 wrote:
ACCS300 wrote:
Be a great time for Air Canada to ditch some of the MAX options and go for the A321LR for what's left of the long-thin 767 routes.


But what does that solve for them if demand is increasing? The A321 is no closer to size replacing the 767 vs a 739/10. The 767s seat more. More 787s or MoM sized plane (including bigger version of A321) is what would be ideal for AC. YVR and YYZ are great hubs to Asia Pac and Europe.


Spot on. The Rouge 767s are a real question mark. Many of their destinations are places that AC could replace a 767 Rouge flight with 2x MAX8 and add capacity while doubling the frequency. Alternatively, the 788 would make a perfect replacement airplane. And could probably see seat count closer to 300 (or more). So do they use narrow bodies (with the MAX8) or order another 24 787s. Alternatively, this is where the MOM would be perfect. So maybe the hold out for that.

Thenoflyzone wrote:
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
ACCS300 wrote:
Be a great time for Air Canada to ditch some of the MAX options and go for the A321LR for what's left of the long-thin 767 routes.


Aside from flights between YYZ and other major Canadian cities to the west and to the Maritimes; flights to LAX, SFO and sometimes LGA; lately the 767s have been used on YYC-NRT, YHZ/YYT/YOW-LHR as well as YOW-FRA, YYZ-AMS & YUL-LYS. Which of those do you think could be better served with the Aitbus?


The A321LR can operate all those legs, except YYC-NRT.

YHZ/YOW/YYT-LHR & YOW-FRA are ideal A321LR routes. YYZ-AMS and YUL-LYS have the demand for larger equipment. I hope AC orders the plane !


To those of you suggesting the 321LR is on the table, I am curious how you see that. They can't get a 321 for another 6-7 years. Why should they wait that long? Alternatively, if Boeing launches the MOM soon, they end up getting the MOMs in 7 years anyway.

whywhyzee wrote:
I’d like to see so,e 787-10’s as part of the 787 options exercised, rather then the -9. For what should be essentially the same operating cost, they gain access to ~ 50 more seats, and they have a huge network of routes that does not need the range. Narrow body side, I know they are looking for a better option then the 737-9, they don’t want to take any as it stands, The 737-10 would be a shoe in, but they don’t seem interested, probably because it can’t effectively do TATL. The 797 will likely be watched very closely. In the mean time, the A321’s are essentially replacing what would have been the 737-9 flying as it would seem. I also know they are looking at adding used A333’s as an intermediary solution. Exciting times ahead.


Absolutely agree. It's always been puzzling to me that they never ordered the 787-10s. Surely, they could have used some. Since they don't need the range of the 787-9 for most routes. The -10 would also have be the perfect replacement for the 333s. And perfect Star Alliance hub-hub flights.

10 hrs from Toronto would cover all of Europe and the Med.
 
tjh8402
Posts: 957
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:20 am

Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:31 pm

WildcatYXU wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Really? Not really a topic in Canada? It was even a topic in the general news in The Netherlands abeit small, but still.


Well, you can see some news on TV and read about it in the newspapers, but i don't hear people talking about it. People here (London, Ontario) talk more about the strike at the CAMI plant in Ingersoll and GM threatening to move that crapbox production they have there to Mexico.


I started digging into Canadian media when the whole story broke and was surprised at the number of Canadians who aren't supporters of BBD. Seemed to be an east-west regional divide that reminded me of the north-south divide here in the states.

As for AC, considering their diverse current fleet, even if it's mostly Boeing going forward, I would say it's anyone's guess what they want. 73X and a possible 797 might seem like good options but who knows. Last anyone expected to hear was a possible order for new pax 767s and look where the rumors are.
 
tofur
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:51 pm

Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:32 pm

matt wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
I also know they are looking at adding used A333’s as an intermediary solution.


Does anyone have any more information about this. So far, AC has planned 9 daily transatlantic flights on the 333 for the upcoming summer months (July/August), plus a daily YUL-YVR-YUL rotation. The current eight 333s will not be enough...

YYZ-AMS (daily)
YYZ-MUC (daily)
YYZ-DUB (daily)
YUL-CDG (daily)
YUL-BRU (daily)
YUL-GVA (daily)
YUL-FCO (daily)
YUL-LYS (x47)
YUL-CMN (daily)
YUL-YVR (daily)


It looks like there is room in the next summer schedule for one 77W, and one 789 aircraft to each make a transatlantic crossing. My guess is YYZ-MUC for the 77W, and YYZ-AMS or DUB for the 789. The only 330 pilot base is YUL, making sense to keep most of the flying from there.
 
CXH
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:37 am

Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:03 pm

tjh8402 wrote:
WildcatYXU wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Really? Not really a topic in Canada? It was even a topic in the general news in The Netherlands abeit small, but still.


Well, you can see some news on TV and read about it in the newspapers, but i don't hear people talking about it. People here (London, Ontario) talk more about the strike at the CAMI plant in Ingersoll and GM threatening to move that crapbox production they have there to Mexico.


I started digging into Canadian media when the whole story broke and was surprised at the number of Canadians who aren't supporters of BBD. Seemed to be an east-west regional divide that reminded me of the north-south divide here in the states.


Actually, the U.S. duties against the CSeries did make major news here in Canada back in August. And on the Monday nearly two weeks ago when the Airbus buy out of 50.01% of the CSeries program was announced, it was the number one story in the evening news and elsewhere for a day or so. So I think the average Canadian is aware of the issue, at least those who follow the news. But I'd guess that half the population barely follow the 'news', so that half are only aware of major disasters, huge scandals, and celebrity news.

Where I am, in Vancouver, opinion of Bombardier in general is neutral or "who's that?". Some link the issue to the softwood lumber industry, where Canada and the U.S. have had disagreements for decades, and the U.S. has applied duties that are usually repealed by various international bodies years later. So the U.S. government is viewed as protectionist in general.

I know that the Bombardier Rail division is majorly behind schedule in supplying new street cars to the public transit authority in Toronto, so their name is mud in the centre-of-the-universe right now (a Canadian in-joke of Toronto vs. the rest of Canada!). Outside of Toronto, at least here in Vancouver, very few people are aware of that issue.

So I don't think this will affect aircraft purchases/deals by Canadian airlines.
I've seen the future, I can't afford it. - Martin Fry
 
beechnut
Posts: 735
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:27 am

Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:05 pm

ytz wrote:
They also have to get on to replacing Rouge's fleet at some point. I assume this is where their options come in. They've got 25 A319s and 5 A321s to replace.


Not any time soon for the 321s, they are recent new builds. Unless they plan to shift them to mainline and send something else over to Rouge to replace them.

Beech
 
thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:06 pm

If Air Canada does what I am thinking (use airline using lcc business plan with the cs300 to compete against ulcc's) the cseries might just get some needed attention. Who better to trade in used a319's then airbus?
 
thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:25 pm

Air Canada and West jet have been a duopoly in Canada for some time now and neither want that to change! After jetlines announced operations out of Hamilton and Kitchener /Waterloo starting in 2018, west jet announced starting a new Ulcc (day after) and air Canada announced using rouge to compete as well. First real ulcc in Canada would cause a reaction from the duopoly!
 
ytz
Posts: 3529
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:31 am

Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:39 pm

thumper76 wrote:
If Air Canada does what I am thinking (use airline using lcc business plan with the cs300 to compete against ulcc's) the cseries might just get some needed attention. Who better to trade in used a319's then airbus?


I don't think the CS300 can compete with the 737-8 MAX on CASM. Might be close enough and maybe Air Canada got their CS300 frames cheaply enough not to care about deploying the CS300 against Westjet and Sunwing flying MAX8s in mainline and LCC config respectively.

As for those A319s, are they even worth anything at this point? I doubt it.
 
thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:44 pm

ytz wrote:
thumper76 wrote:
If Air Canada does what I am thinking (use airline using lcc business plan with the cs300 to compete against ulcc's) the cseries might just get some needed attention. Who better to trade in used a319's then airbus?


I don't think the CS300 can compete with the 737-8 MAX on CASM. Might be close enough and maybe Air Canada got their CS300 frames cheaply enough not to care about deploying the CS300 against Westjet and Sunwing flying MAX8s in mainline and LCC config respectively.

As for those A319s, are they even worth anything at this point? I doubt it.

If airbus is serious about killing the a319, would they not want to keep some in inventory for future package deals?
You must understand what a big deal it is for Canadian aviation to have a first true ulcc.
 
thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:04 pm

In air Canada's announcement they said they would give the new incumbent (jetlines) time to get up and running before they start competing. That leads me to believe late 2018 to 2019. When is air Canada supposed to get the cs300?

To clarify this please google "air Canada Sept 20 2017"
Last edited by thumper76 on Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:21 pm

If Air Canada has to move aircraft to a new unforeseen market would they not need additional aircraft!
 
thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:32 pm

[quote="thumper76"]In air Canada's announcement they said they would give the new incumbent (jetlines) time to get up and running before they start competing. That leads me to believe late 2018 to 2019. When is air Canada supposed to get the cs300?

To clarify this please google "air Canada Sept 20 2017"[/quote

Sorry change that to Sept 20 2017
 
HJM
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:05 pm

Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:43 pm

Do you think there may me a new AC Asian destination from YVR in 2018?
 
ytz
Posts: 3529
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:31 am

Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:57 pm

matt wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
I also know they are looking at adding used A333’s as an intermediary solution.


Does anyone have any more information about this. So far, AC has planned 9 daily transatlantic flights on the 333 for the upcoming summer months (July/August), plus a daily YUL-YVR-YUL rotation. The current eight 333s will not be enough...

YYZ-AMS (daily)
YYZ-MUC (daily)
YYZ-DUB (daily)
YUL-CDG (daily)
YUL-BRU (daily)
YUL-GVA (daily)
YUL-FCO (daily)
YUL-LYS (x47)
YUL-CMN (daily)
YUL-YVR (daily)


That schedule looks practically built for the 787-10. And the 78J would be perfect for Northeast Asia and Europe from Vancouver (and possibly Calgary).

I get the cost issue of moving the 767s to Rouge. But I've always thought that AC could just move the 767 routes back to mainline and offer them without as Y/Y+. They don't need to have J on every flight. And Y on a 767 Rouge is not substantially different than a mainline 787.
Last edited by ytz on Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Air Canada says increased demand could prompt more airplane orders (CBC)

Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:01 am

Would ac be in need of some Max 8's? And if so why

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