scotron11
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IAG could take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:05 am

WW has said that EI will increase to 12 from 8 A321LRs starting 2019. He did not name any cities, but that they are in discussion with up to 10 airports in the US.

https://www.independent.ie/business/iri ... 68794.html
Last edited by SQ22 on Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
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ElroyJetson
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:34 am

I think this is a great move by EI. This is also showcasing the versatility of the A321LR. Now the speculation can begin regarding which cities will be targeted.
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scotron11
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:40 am

ElroyJetson wrote:
I think this is a great move by EI. This is also showcasing the versatility of the A321LR. Now the speculation can begin regarding which cities will be targeted.


WW has made very positive comments on the A321LR previously, seeming to suggest a wider role across the the whole group, even Level. So we may see them increase their orders for this plane.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:01 am

I appreciate that IAG intends for EI to use these A321LRs for North America.

However, it would be great for EI to consider destinations in Africa, the Middle East and/or Central Asia too - with the A321LR, the possibilities are endless:

Image

In particular, DUB - LOS may have some potential, as Nigerians are the largest African group in Ireland.

:crossfingers:

Cheers,

C.
 
kaitak
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:19 am

I think "endless" might be putting it a bit too strongly. All the airports will be US airports (possibly some Canadian as well); the objective is to build hubbing through Dublin - "the DubHub", so to speak!

Here's a range ring of 3,200nm ex-DUB. It's a little less than the advertised 4k, but when you factor in t/a winds, this is probably more accurate. With this, they can go as far south as NC (RDU perhaps), then working across - BNA, CVG, MKE and YWG are at the extremities and obviously everything within that, such as DTW, YUL, PIT and MKE.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=3200nm%40DUB
 
jmmadrid
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:28 am

Many people in this Forum including myself said that 8 A321LR were not enough, given the potential of the plane and the geographical area where IAG develop the lion's share of their business. If Aer Lingus alone can find use for these 12 planes, then IAG still need to order some more for IBERIA, BRITISH AIRWAYS, VUELING, and maybe even LEVEL.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:34 am

The A321LR seems tailor-made for EI for Canada and North American destinations. So a good move.
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RalXWB
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:35 am

Great news for the 321LR!
 
leghorn
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:53 am

Great news for Ireland. Isn't it wonderful to see what a bit of competition and new technology forces the incumbents to do.
 
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:04 am

kaitak wrote:
I think "endless" might be putting it a bit too strongly. All the airports will be US airports (possibly some Canadian as well); the objective is to build hubbing through Dublin - "the DubHub", so to speak!

Here's a range ring of 3,200nm ex-DUB. It's a little less than the advertised 4k, but when you factor in t/a winds, this is probably more accurate. With this, they can go as far south as NC (RDU perhaps), then working across - BNA, CVG, MKE and YWG are at the extremities and obviously everything within that, such as DTW, YUL, PIT and MKE.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=3200nm%40DUB


I'm a little more optimistic since 757s fly up to 3,500nm currently. If Airbus' claims of better than 757 range is to be believed, perhaps, 3,600nm? It seems as Leahy says, Airbus does own the MoM right now.
 
parapente
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:06 am

Couple of things.
1.I appreciate that 4,200nm is the advertised max (still air) range and in reality all things are not equal.However 3,200 is a very large 'chunk' less.Is that based on an accepted reduction factor that applies across most A/c and their published ranges?

2.Dublin as a hub.Who is the primary target market here (other than Irish nationals of course)?Its an unloaded question I don't actually know.I don't suppose it's the Uk as that is BA's turf (IAG partner).Also there is a plethora of other airlines offering tatl from the UK.I am assuming is other N European countries?
 
fcogafa
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:35 am

The phrase used in the article is 'COULD' , so the thread title is wrong. Also these might be leased, as the last announcement was of a lease.

'He said that Aer Lingus could raise the number of A321LR jets it would take into its fleet from eight to 12.'
 
Kadish
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:47 am

planemanofnz wrote:
I appreciate that IAG intends for EI to use these A321LRs for North America.

However, it would be great for EI to consider destinations in Africa, the Middle East and/or Central Asia too - with the A321LR, the possibilities are endless:

Image

In particular, DUB - LOS may have some potential, as Nigerians are the largest African group in Ireland.

:crossfingers:

Cheers,

C.

For me its the perfect plane for EI to North Amarica and for Ib to cover a great part of Africa n if they were brave to some points in Asía.
 
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OA260
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:53 am

planemanofnz wrote:
I appreciate that IAG intends for EI to use these A321LRs for North America.

However, it would be great for EI to consider destinations in Africa, the Middle East and/or Central Asia too - with the A321LR, the possibilities are endless:

Image

In particular, DUB - LOS may have some potential, as Nigerians are the largest African group in Ireland.

:crossfingers:

Cheers,

C.


They wont go into Africa. The traffic to LOS is very low yield and the likes of TK already have the big chunk of that. With EI it needs to be realistic and doing what they do best. TATL is that reality.
 
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:02 am

OA260 wrote:
With EI it needs to be realistic and doing what they do best. TATL is that reality.

My problem with that, is that it leaves EI very vulnerable, having all of its eggs in one basked (i.e. the U.S.) - we all know how that turned out, with the GFC.

Cheers,

C.
 
Arion640
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:17 am

jmmadrid wrote:
Many people in this Forum including myself said that 8 A321LR were not enough, given the potential of the plane and the geographical area where IAG develop the lion's share of their business. If Aer Lingus alone can find use for these 12 planes, then IAG still need to order some more for IBERIA, BRITISH AIRWAYS, VUELING, and maybe even LEVEL.


What would Vueling do with A321 LR's? The whole point of level is to cover the long haul side of Vueling.
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jmmadrid
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:31 am

Arion640 wrote:
jmmadrid wrote:
Many people in this Forum including myself said that 8 A321LR were not enough, given the potential of the plane and the geographical area where IAG develop the lion's share of their business. If Aer Lingus alone can find use for these 12 planes, then IAG still need to order some more for IBERIA, BRITISH AIRWAYS, VUELING, and maybe even LEVEL.


What would Vueling do with A321 LR's? The whole point of level is to cover the long haul side of Vueling.


It's early days, but I dont think that IAG will cap Vueling's growth to "protect" LEVEL.
In addition, the theory that LEVEL was created JUST to cover the low cost long haul flights from Barcelona is debatable. LEVEL was created to compete against Norwegian on certain routes. I dont see why both VUELING and LEVEL cannot grow simultaneously in different directions.
 
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reidar76
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:41 am

3600 nm (6666 km) from DUB.

Image

This is the A321LRs absolute maximum range (realistically) from DUB, assuming a possible Aer Lingus configuration with 12 business seats and 174 economy seats.
Last edited by reidar76 on Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
stratocruiser
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:42 am

planemanofnz wrote:
I appreciate that IAG intends for EI to use these A321LRs for North America.

However, it would be great for EI to consider destinations in Africa, the Middle East and/or Central Asia too - with the A321LR, the possibilities are endless:

Image

In particular, DUB - LOS may have some potential, as Nigerians are the largest African group in Ireland.

:crossfingers:

Cheers,

C.


I doubt very much if you will ever see EI operating to Dakar, Khartoum, Kabul or even Lagos! Indeed the market from Ireland would probably support very few if any African or Middle Eastern/Western Asian destinations. I think IAG's main aim with these aircraft will be to offer flights to new niche destinations in North America currently unserved by transatlantic flights, but which would have the potential to generate enough transit traffic to the UK and Europe to supplement any O&D traffic and fill an A321. Will be very interesting to see how this pans out!
 
Arion640
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:45 am

jmmadrid wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
jmmadrid wrote:
Many people in this Forum including myself said that 8 A321LR were not enough, given the potential of the plane and the geographical area where IAG develop the lion's share of their business. If Aer Lingus alone can find use for these 12 planes, then IAG still need to order some more for IBERIA, BRITISH AIRWAYS, VUELING, and maybe even LEVEL.


What would Vueling do with A321 LR's? The whole point of level is to cover the long haul side of Vueling.


It's early days, but I dont think that IAG will cap Vueling's growth to "protect" LEVEL.
In addition, the theory that LEVEL was created JUST to cover the low cost long haul flights from Barcelona is debatable. LEVEL was created to compete against Norwegian on certain routes. I dont see why both VUELING and LEVEL cannot grow simultaneously in different directions.


They aren't growing to grow Level and Vueling into the same directions. Vueling is IAG's answer to Easyjet, Level is there answer to Norwegian. They aren't suddenly going to start doing Long Haul with both Vueling and Level. In levels case they'd be introducing a new type so a separate pool of pilots.
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r2rho
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:52 am

However, it would be great for EI to consider destinations in Africa, the Middle East and/or Central Asia too - with the A321LR, the possibilities are endless:

I have to disagree about Africa - MAD is the best placed IAG hub for that. They can cover all but the southernmost part of the continent with A32x from there, and that should be developed accordingly.
But the A321LR and DUB as a hub (with parallel runway) fit together perfectly and would open up many interesting possibilities to link up non-hub US & EU destinations.
 
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:53 am

parapente wrote:
2.Dublin as a hub.Who is the primary target market here (other than Irish nationals of course)?Its an unloaded question I don't actually know.I don't suppose it's the Uk as that is BA's turf (IAG partner).Also there is a plethora of other airlines offering tatl from the UK.I am assuming is other N European countries?


I can't speak with any real authority but in the absence of a more-qualified poster the answer is that it is actually the UK, or to an extent anyway. With LHR's congestion,and BA's interest in the rest of the UK being the way it is, DUB can offer decent connections from many secondary ports in the UK. Passengers like it because they don't have to go through London, BA likes it because they don't have to put so much effort into serving the rest of the UK beyond O&D and some higher-value connectors, and if they can pick up some business from other European ports on the way than that's a bonus.

Further, they can exploit the fact that most of the UK and DUB are well linked to build service to secondary US ports that aren't strong enough to hold BA service from LHR, let alone the likes of MAN and GLA.
 
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:10 am

fcogafa wrote:
The phrase used in the article is 'COULD' , so the thread title is wrong. Also these might be leased, as the last announcement was of a lease.

'He said that Aer Lingus could raise the number of A321LR jets it would take into its fleet from eight to 12.'


As if the good people on A’net are going to let good facts like that, get in the way of a good thread!! Just waiting for the 757MAX to be shoehorned into it!

Wes...
 
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keesje
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:31 am

Lots of opportunities in the NorthEast. Norwegian and WOW came to the same conclusion. E.g. Hartfort is a typical airport people prefer over going into BOS, JFK hubs because of traffic time/ uncertainty. Apart from longer flights the A321LR is an excellent performer on 1-3 hour flights too, vastly reducing fleet investment risks over twin aisle aircraft.
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:46 am

Based on A.Net wisdom, Europeans do not like to fly TATL on narrow body a/c, the USA carriers who are using 757's are mostly USA originating traffic. I accept that the A321 is a wider narrow body a/c than the 757, so will the a/c now change preferences and open up new travel possibilities for non-charter carriers who are the primary users of narrow body a/c on long distance flights?
 
YIMBY
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:16 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
OA260 wrote:
With EI it needs to be realistic and doing what they do best. TATL is that reality.

My problem with that, is that it leaves EI very vulnerable, having all of its eggs in one basked (i.e. the U.S.) - we all know how that turned out, with the GFC.

Cheers,

C.


EI can put all its eggs in one basket, and now it should do exactly that. As it is part of IAG, IAG can make such decisions, even though the whole IAG relies on TATL.

P.S: I do not know how that turned out, with the GFC, and what it has to do with this case.
 
raylee67
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:20 pm

It could be that IAG is using EI/DUB to compete with Icelandair/KEF. DUB can be used as a connecting hub for TATL specifically for low yielding tourist traffic, so that those traffic can be absorbed by IAG and diverted away from LHR. LHR then will be built as a fortress hub for high yield traffic and O&D traffic. A321LR seems to be the perfect plane to achieve this. DUB's pre-clearance facilities will be a competitive advantage over KEF. If this is indeed IAG's strategy, I can see it ordering a lot more A321LR for EI.
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:22 pm

8 net A321LR, other 4 will replace B752.
 
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:38 pm

par13del wrote:
Based on A.Net wisdom, Europeans do not like to fly TATL on narrow body a/c, the USA carriers who are using 757's are mostly USA originating traffic. I accept that the A321 is a wider narrow body a/c than the 757, so will the a/c now change preferences and open up new travel possibilities for non-charter carriers who are the primary users of narrow body a/c on long distance flights?

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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:48 pm

keesje wrote:
Lots of opportunities in the NorthEast. Norwegian and WOW came to the same conclusion. E.g. Hartford is a typical airport people prefer over going into BOS, JFK hubs because of traffic time/ uncertainty. Apart from longer flights the A321LR is an excellent performer on 1-3 hour flights too, vastly reducing fleet investment risks over twin aisle aircraft.

Seems like the TATL fragmentation theory is going to be put to the test. Of course Icelandic is already a player, plus Norweigan and WOW, and our Air Canada thread has talk of using the MAX 8 for TATL hub bypass routes, and of course EI too. Add all that to the massive amounts of TATL capacity we already have, and I wonder when it all goes pear shaped.

planemanofnz wrote:
OA260 wrote:
With EI it needs to be realistic and doing what they do best. TATL is that reality.

My problem with that, is that it leaves EI very vulnerable, having all of its eggs in one basked (i.e. the U.S.) - we all know how that turned out, with the GFC.

Cheers,

C.

It seems we're seeing a move away from the capacity discipline we've seen in recent years towards an all-out binge on TATL hub bypass routes.

I think I'll try to enjoy it while I can, because the end will be swift and ugly.

2018 should be a great season for cheap TATL fares. Not sure how long it can last
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:25 pm

XAM2175 wrote:
parapente wrote:
2.Dublin as a hub.Who is the primary target market here (other than Irish nationals of course)?Its an unloaded question I don't actually know.I don't suppose it's the Uk as that is BA's turf (IAG partner).Also there is a plethora of other airlines offering tatl from the UK.I am assuming is other N European countries?


I can't speak with any real authority but in the absence of a more-qualified poster the answer is that it is actually the UK, or to an extent anyway. With LHR's congestion,and BA's interest in the rest of the UK being the way it is, DUB can offer decent connections from many secondary ports in the UK. Passengers like it because they don't have to go through London, BA likes it because they don't have to put so much effort into serving the rest of the UK beyond O&D and some higher-value connectors, and if they can pick up some business from other European ports on the way than that's a bonus.

Further, they can exploit the fact that most of the UK and DUB are well linked to build service to secondary US ports that aren't strong enough to hold BA service from LHR, let alone the likes of MAN and GLA.


It's potentially anywhere east of DUB that is not served by a direct connection to North-east Americas.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:44 pm

What about the development of SNN as a hub or focus city as well? It would seem to make sense to base wide-bodies and 4 A321LRs at DUB and the rest at SNN. I could also see a Cork to JFK flight as well.
 
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N717TW
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:44 pm

stratocruiser wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
I appreciate that IAG intends for EI to use these A321LRs for North America.

However, it would be great for EI to consider destinations in Africa, the Middle East and/or Central Asia too - with the A321LR, the possibilities are endless:

Image

In particular, DUB - LOS may have some potential, as Nigerians are the largest African group in Ireland.

:crossfingers:

Cheers,

C.


I doubt very much if you will ever see EI operating to Dakar, Khartoum, Kabul or even Lagos! Indeed the market from Ireland would probably support very few if any African or Middle Eastern/Western Asian destinations. I think IAG's main aim with these aircraft will be to offer flights to new niche destinations in North America currently unserved by transatlantic flights, but which would have the potential to generate enough transit traffic to the UK and Europe to supplement any O&D traffic and fill an A321. Will be very interesting to see how this pans out!


I agree. This is about connecting smaller US/Canadian markets to UK regions and the continent plus avoiding LHR. In this case, DUB is becoming IAG's poor mans choice to AMS. There are two other questions that IAG has to navigate: Brexit and LHR expansion. Brexit might mean IAG wants/needs to stop using the UK as a hub between North America and the EU (particularly if IAG has to divest BA down to 49%) whereas LHR expansion might mean that this is all moot.
 
parapente
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:01 pm

As others have said 2018 look like it's gonna be a real bun fight.IAG appears to be bringing all its various European guns to bear on this tatl target.Regarding BA itself I guess they also have room to manoeuvre as they still have a load of 744's plying some of these routes.They can easily downsize to 351's/777's I guess and still keep the all important high yield element.
 
Sula123
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:07 pm

Could they try MSP, DTW, IND, CVG? Maybe smaller Canadian cities in the east? Small equipment, efficient one stop connections may just let them poke DL and AC a bit. How about EI taking over BWI from BA?
 
Galwayman
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:43 pm

EI with FR feed at Dublin will be definitely able to fill flights to any US destinations

Agree this is about taking on Icelandajr and Wow , anything thing they can do EI can do so much easier

Suspect these flights will be mainly Americans , irish travellers aren't half as keen on the US as US tourists are on visiting Ireland /EU
 
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:02 pm

Revelation wrote:
Seems like the TATL fragmentation theory is going to be put to the test. Of course Icelandic is already a player, plus Norweigan and WOW, and our Air Canada thread has talk of using the MAX 8 for TATL hub bypass routes, and of course EI too. Add all that to the massive amounts of TATL capacity we already have, and I wonder when it all goes pear shaped.


There is no choice. European hubs haven't expanded in too long. There is an incredibly opportunity to fragment TATL as connecting at the existing hubs is becoming too impacted. For over a decade we've been waiting for expansion at LHR, FRA, MUC, AMS, and BER. CDG simply doesn't have a connecting terminal layout and MAD has room, but isn't a great geographic location for many destinations. So DUB will do very well with the A321LR going TATL and then other planes connecting (mainly on existing flights) to the rest of Europe.

Since DUB is getting a new runway, expected in 2020, these aircraft will arrive at a great time for growth! Hopefully there will be enough night flights allowed to enable great A321LR utilization.

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Arion640
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:02 pm

N717TW wrote:
stratocruiser wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
I appreciate that IAG intends for EI to use these A321LRs for North America.

However, it would be great for EI to consider destinations in Africa, the Middle East and/or Central Asia too - with the A321LR, the possibilities are endless:

Image

In particular, DUB - LOS may have some potential, as Nigerians are the largest African group in Ireland.

:crossfingers:

Cheers,

C.


I doubt very much if you will ever see EI operating to Dakar, Khartoum, Kabul or even Lagos! Indeed the market from Ireland would probably support very few if any African or Middle Eastern/Western Asian destinations. I think IAG's main aim with these aircraft will be to offer flights to new niche destinations in North America currently unserved by transatlantic flights, but which would have the potential to generate enough transit traffic to the UK and Europe to supplement any O&D traffic and fill an A321. Will be very interesting to see how this pans out!


I agree. This is about connecting smaller US/Canadian markets to UK regions and the continent plus avoiding LHR. In this case, DUB is becoming IAG's poor mans choice to AMS. There are two other questions that IAG has to navigate: Brexit and LHR expansion. Brexit might mean IAG wants/needs to stop using the UK as a hub between North America and the EU (particularly if IAG has to divest BA down to 49%) whereas LHR expansion might mean that this is all moot.


Why would they have to divest down to 49%? There are plenty of wholly owned ltd companies owned by japenese and usa firms for example, I don't see the why this wouldn't be the case for European countries after brexit?
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User avatar
N717TW
Posts: 540
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:24 pm

Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:15 pm

Arion640 wrote:
N717TW wrote:
stratocruiser wrote:

I doubt very much if you will ever see EI operating to Dakar, Khartoum, Kabul or even Lagos! Indeed the market from Ireland would probably support very few if any African or Middle Eastern/Western Asian destinations. I think IAG's main aim with these aircraft will be to offer flights to new niche destinations in North America currently unserved by transatlantic flights, but which would have the potential to generate enough transit traffic to the UK and Europe to supplement any O&D traffic and fill an A321. Will be very interesting to see how this pans out!


I agree. This is about connecting smaller US/Canadian markets to UK regions and the continent plus avoiding LHR. In this case, DUB is becoming IAG's poor mans choice to AMS. There are two other questions that IAG has to navigate: Brexit and LHR expansion. Brexit might mean IAG wants/needs to stop using the UK as a hub between North America and the EU (particularly if IAG has to divest BA down to 49%) whereas LHR expansion might mean that this is all moot.


Why would they have to divest down to 49%? There are plenty of wholly owned ltd companies owned by japenese and usa firms for example, I don't see the why this wouldn't be the case for European countries after brexit?


Generally (with limited exceptions) airlines have been considered national assets and therefore must be in domestic hands if not nationalized outright. The EU has set the limit of non-domestic (in this case, non-EU) ownership at 49%. That's the majority view in nations where foreign investment but not ownership is allowed. The US sets that number at 25%. I am assuming that the UK would maintain the 49% rule although they could bring it down lower or they could wipe it away all together and allow for total foreign ownership. IAG, parent of BA, is a Spanish company and therefore won't be able to qualify as a domestic company going forward. N.B. this impacts VS too; EasyJet has the reverse problem where they would become a foreign carrier in the EU and has been moving to establish an Austrian division that can take on the job of operating the intra-EU flights.
 
Kadish
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Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:07 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Seems like the TATL fragmentation theory is going to be put to the test. Of course Icelandic is already a player, plus Norweigan and WOW, and our Air Canada thread has talk of using the MAX 8 for TATL hub bypass routes, and of course EI too. Add all that to the massive amounts of TATL capacity we already have, and I wonder when it all goes pear shaped.


There is no choice. European hubs haven't expanded in too long. There is an incredibly opportunity to fragment TATL as connecting at the existing hubs is becoming too impacted. For over a decade we've been waiting for expansion at LHR, FRA, MUC, AMS, and BER. CDG simply doesn't have a connecting terminal layout and MAD has room, but isn't a great geographic location for many destinations. So DUB will do very well with the A321LR going TATL and then other planes connecting (mainly on existing flights) to the rest of Europe.

Since DUB is getting a new runway, expected in 2020, these aircraft will arrive at a great time for growth! Hopefully there will be enough night flights allowed to enable great A321LR utilization.

Lightsaber

By saying Mad is not great for many destinations I guess u mean TATL..cause Mad is much better to serve South America ( even some North American points) Africa, Central Asia, Middle East, India than Dub.....and as u said a lot of room to grow so no need to wait to 2020.
 
airzona11
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Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:25 pm

That is still a very small number of planes. I bet they continue to grow the hub to make it a true hub in comparison to their others like LHR, MAD. Net of 4 planes is nothing to write home about. LHR is such a massive hub with great O/D, they need to get creative with the destinations east and west of DUB to build an operation with appreciable value for IAG.
 
Galwayman
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Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:20 am

Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:23 am

BDA on one of the maps above is really really interesting .rumour has it that BDA > LGW is one of BAs most lucrative routes and of course all IAG airlines are encouraged to compete with each other - might be worth a shot on an A321
 
WNflyer1523
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:28 am

Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:34 am

Considering the range of the A321, I’m assuming that the new destinations would be in the northeast/Mid Atlantic. What are your thoughts? My predictions:
ISP - Possible
MHT - Possible
SWF - Possible
PIT - Possible
BUF - More possible
PVD - More possible
And I’m not sure what the other 4 would be.
 
jetskipper
Posts: 495
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2001 1:50 am

Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:41 am

What about the now unserved SNN-ORD market?
 
stlgph
Posts: 10976
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:02 am

First predictions from this chair would be daytime BOS-DUB, JFK-DUB, at least in the summer.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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Super80Fan
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Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:14 am

Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:19 am

I'm assuming some of these will replace current 757 flying, such as BDL-DUB?
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lawair
Posts: 223
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:59 pm

Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:19 am

Sula123 wrote:
How about EI taking over BWI from BA?


Back in the 2000s they both performed alright at BWI. BA had about 10000 passengers per month in the summer and Aer Lingus beat that by carrying over 13000 passengers from BWI in July 2000, I believe. Reports were that BWI was one of EI's most profitable routes that summer, despite a SNN stopover. It's been a long time and a lot has changed since then. There's a lot more competition to DUB these days.

That being said, both could work at BWI today. The BA flight has performed dramatically better since the 787 started service there in August 2016. Loads are significantly higher and cargo is more than double that of the prior year. EI seems like a reasonable add (not a replacement for the BA flight, since that flight holds its own and needs a widebody for the cargo), and might be more doable with an A321 rather than the A333 EI used back in the day.
 
Balloonchaser
Posts: 285
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:29 pm

Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:26 am

I would love for Aer Lingus to operate to KISP!! I think DUB and SNN would do very well
 
cheapgreek
Posts: 566
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:57 pm

Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:35 am

WNflyer1523 wrote:
Considering the range of the A321, I’m assuming that the new destinations would be in the northeast/Mid Atlantic. What are your thoughts? My predictions:
ISP - Possible
MHT - Possible
SWF - Possible
PIT - Possible
BUF - More possible
PVD - More possible
And I’m not sure what the other 4 would be.


How about GSO, ALB, ROC, SYR. and MDT? All small markets like the others already in service. Does not have to be daily service but 3-4 weekly flights to test the market response.
 
Andy33
Posts: 2473
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: IAG to take up to 12 A321LRs for EI

Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:26 am

Super80Fan wrote:
I'm assuming some of these will replace current 757 flying, such as BDL-DUB?

Absolutely. There are 4 wet-leased 757s and the intention behind the original order was to replace these, plus have the capacity to add routes and/or frequencies. There certainly won't be 12 planes worth of new routes, but there should be enough to keep secondary US/Canadian airport fans speculating for ages.

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