jumbojet
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Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:15 pm

this is a legitimate question to ask. Even JetBlue admits to a problem with its broken toilets.

JetBlue is struggling to add more seating to planes because the toilets on board keep breaking. In its bid to squeeze more passengers on board like sardines, there are some major issues.

JetBlue passengers can relax for a few more minutes – you’re not about to be stuffed into planes like sardines just yet. And you have toilets to thank for that. The airline has been attempting to install a new configuration inside its planes, using Space Flex lavatories produced by Zodiac Aerospace, but there have been some issues.
“Equipment quality hasn’t been up to standard and we’ve seen alignment issues in the installation,” JetBlue spokesman Doug McGraw told Bloomberg in an email. “These problems are leading to a high rate of inoperable parts and out-of-service lavatories.”



full story here:



https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/jetb ... ilets.html

So, this, without a doubt, is contributing to the huge problem over at JetBlue with delayed and cancelled flights, not ATC like B6 upper management would like you to believe.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:53 pm

What a surprise, a Zodiac product isn't up to standard....
 
CRJ900
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:50 pm

Is this because they are retrofitting the SpaceFlex in older aircraft with different wiring etc below the floor?

Haven't heard that factory-fresh aircraft with SpaceFlex have issues.
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
av8orwalk
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:05 pm

Please read the article. The delay is reconfiguring the aircraft from 150 seats to 162 seats. That restyling was supposed to start in November and has been DELAYED.

Flights are not being delayed because of broken toilets.
The safest place to be in an airplane crash is on the ground.
 
fastmover
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:41 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
jumbojet wrote:
this is a legitimate question to ask. Even JetBlue admits to a problem with its broken toilets.

JetBlue is struggling to add more seating to planes because the toilets on board keep breaking. In its bid to squeeze more passengers on board like sardines, there are some major issues.

JetBlue passengers can relax for a few more minutes – you’re not about to be stuffed into planes like sardines just yet. And you have toilets to thank for that. The airline has been attempting to install a new configuration inside its planes, using Space Flex lavatories produced by Zodiac Aerospace, but there have been some issues.
“Equipment quality hasn’t been up to standard and we’ve seen alignment issues in the installation,” JetBlue spokesman Doug McGraw told Bloomberg in an email. “These problems are leading to a high rate of inoperable parts and out-of-service lavatories.”



full story here:



https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/jetb ... ilets.html

So, this, without a doubt, is contributing to the huge problem over at JetBlue with delayed and cancelled flights, not ATC like B6 upper management would like you to believe.



Ok how do I say this in a respectful way, since I don’t know anything about you.
How old are you?

There are 21 321s with this faulty product.

The JetBlue fleet is 60 190s 130 A320s and 41 A312s
So by my count that is 210 aircraft without this issue.
So no sir 21 a321s are not causing the “huge” problem (your words) if there is one. Have you ever thought it might just be ATC since there is data to back that up.

You almost make this to easy to take your arguments apart.

I wish you would just tell us why you dislike jetblue so much and please don’t tell me you don’t this is your second negative post about b6 today. You may dislike them all you want just give FACTUAl reasons. Don’t make stuff up.

They talked about this in the call and the fact that they were working with the manufacturer to fix this issue and holding off further configuration changes until there is a proper fix. Also we are not the first airline having this issue.
 
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FoxtrotSierra
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:01 pm

The fact that Zodiac lasted longer than Airberlin is even more amazing, Airberlin actually flew paying passengers, while Zodiac has failed its end so many times that it is surprising they have not lost enough contracts to go bust...
 
jordanh
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:09 pm

fastmover wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
jumbojet wrote:
this is a legitimate question to ask. Even JetBlue admits to a problem with its broken toilets.
JetBlue is struggling to add more seating to planes because the toilets on board keep breaking. In its bid to squeeze more passengers on board like sardines, there are some major issues.
JetBlue passengers can relax for a few more minutes – you’re not about to be stuffed into planes like sardines just yet. And you have toilets to thank for that. The airline has been attempting to install a new configuration inside its planes, using Space Flex lavatories produced by Zodiac Aerospace, but there have been some issues.
“Equipment quality hasn’t been up to standard and we’ve seen alignment issues in the installation,” JetBlue spokesman Doug McGraw told Bloomberg in an email. “These problems are leading to a high rate of inoperable parts and out-of-service lavatories.”

full story here:
https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/jetb ... ilets.html
So, this, without a doubt, is contributing to the huge problem over at JetBlue with delayed and cancelled flights, not ATC like B6 upper management would like you to believe.

Ok how do I say this in a respectful way, since I don’t know anything about you.
How old are you?
There are 21 321s with this faulty product.
The JetBlue fleet is 60 190s 130 A320s and 41 A312s
So by my count that is 210 aircraft without this issue.
So no sir 21 a321s are not causing the “huge” problem (your words) if there is one. Have you ever thought it might just be ATC since there is data to back that up.
You almost make this to easy to take your arguments apart.
I wish you would just tell us why you dislike jetblue so much and please don’t tell me you don’t this is your second negative post about b6 today. You may dislike them all you want just give FACTUAl reasons. Don’t make stuff up.
They talked about this in the call and the fact that they were working with the manufacturer to fix this issue and holding off further configuration changes until there is a proper fix. Also we are not the first airline having this issue.


Sorry, but if any airline has 10% of its fleet out of service, it is a huge problem. It isn't clear from the article if they are all actually grounded, but taking that many planes off a schedule would be severe.
 
fastmover
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:34 pm

jordanh wrote:
fastmover wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
jumbojet wrote:
this is a legitimate question to ask. Even JetBlue admits to a problem with its broken toilets.
JetBlue is struggling to add more seating to planes because the toilets on board keep breaking. In its bid to squeeze more passengers on board like sardines, there are some major issues.

full story here:
https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/jetb ... ilets.html
So, this, without a doubt, is contributing to the huge problem over at JetBlue with delayed and cancelled flights, not ATC like B6 upper management would like you to believe.

Ok how do I say this in a respectful way, since I don’t know anything about you.
How old are you?
There are 21 321s with this faulty product.
The JetBlue fleet is 60 190s 130 A320s and 41 A312s
So by my count that is 210 aircraft without this issue.
So no sir 21 a321s are not causing the “huge” problem (your words) if there is one. Have you ever thought it might just be ATC since there is data to back that up.
You almost make this to easy to take your arguments apart.
I wish you would just tell us why you dislike jetblue so much and please don’t tell me you don’t this is your second negative post about b6 today. You may dislike them all you want just give FACTUAl reasons. Don’t make stuff up.
They talked about this in the call and the fact that they were working with the manufacturer to fix this issue and holding off further configuration changes until there is a proper fix. Also we are not the first airline having this issue.


Sorry, but if any airline has 10% of its fleet out of service, it is a huge problem. It isn't clear from the article if they are all actually grounded, but taking that many planes off a schedule would be severe.


Except they are not grounded. You can always MEL a lav. It's not the best thing but it's easy to do until they are fixed. No I assure 21 JetBlue planes are not grounded.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:43 pm

Even if 21 were grounded. The reduction in capacity to the Caribbean at least for the last month would compensate somewhat for that anyway.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:10 pm

The retrofitted 321s are awful. One can only dream zodiac goes out of business tomorrow and the plan to use space flex goes straight into the trash bin.

Hopefully the 320s never see space flex.
 
catiii
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:08 am

jordanh wrote:
fastmover wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
jumbojet wrote:
this is a legitimate question to ask. Even JetBlue admits to a problem with its broken toilets.
JetBlue is struggling to add more seating to planes because the toilets on board keep breaking. In its bid to squeeze more passengers on board like sardines, there are some major issues.

full story here:
https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/jetb ... ilets.html
So, this, without a doubt, is contributing to the huge problem over at JetBlue with delayed and cancelled flights, not ATC like B6 upper management would like you to believe.

Ok how do I say this in a respectful way, since I don’t know anything about you.
How old are you?
There are 21 321s with this faulty product.
The JetBlue fleet is 60 190s 130 A320s and 41 A312s
So by my count that is 210 aircraft without this issue.
So no sir 21 a321s are not causing the “huge” problem (your words) if there is one. Have you ever thought it might just be ATC since there is data to back that up.
You almost make this to easy to take your arguments apart.
I wish you would just tell us why you dislike jetblue so much and please don’t tell me you don’t this is your second negative post about b6 today. You may dislike them all you want just give FACTUAl reasons. Don’t make stuff up.
They talked about this in the call and the fact that they were working with the manufacturer to fix this issue and holding off further configuration changes until there is a proper fix. Also we are not the first airline having this issue.


Sorry, but if any airline has 10% of its fleet out of service, it is a huge problem. It isn't clear from the article if they are all actually grounded, but taking that many planes off a schedule would be severe.


Except 10% of the fleet is NOT out of service.

What's your point?
 
catiii
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:08 am

CobaltScar wrote:
The retrofitted 321s are awful. One can only dream zodiac goes out of business tomorrow and the plan to use space flex goes straight into the trash bin.

Hopefully the 320s never see space flex.


They're only awful if you have to work the aft galley. They're a great Customer experience.
 
N766UA
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:26 am

Like sardines?! Have you flown jetblue?
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:40 pm

Do both lavs in Space-Flex config on a single system?

Zodiac should hire Larry the cable guy for testing.
 
jumbojet
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:43 pm

N766UA wrote:
Like sardines?! Have you flown jetblue?



I have. The sardine comment comes into play because of JetBlue adding more seats to its planes thus eliminating the highly desirable seat pitch that jetBlue was able to tout.

JetBlue said it themselves that there are issues with the retrofits in particular the lavs going out of service which ultimately, those lavs have to get fixed. So my thing is, is ATC really the cause of B6's delayed fligths day in an day out?

Let me say, no airline is perfect. I'll admit I get caught up in thinking that DL is perfect but they're not. B6 fans I think are very guilty of that to, that B6 can do no wrong, everything the airline does is perfect. I think this is possibly a situation that B6 is blaming ATC yet the root cause is something entirely different (lavs) or lack of other maintenance on its aging fleet.. It wouldn't be the first time an airline does something like that. Why blame yourself when you can blame the government?

Just wondering, B6's oldest planes are approaching 17 years old. It would seem that B6 has chosen to refurbish its fleet as opposed to placing an order for new planes? I guess they're going to want to get every possible dimes worth out of the A320's.
Last edited by jumbojet on Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
EWRandMDW
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:01 pm

I have never flown B6 because I live near Chicago MDW and B6 chose not to serve that airport. Instead I fly WN which long ago replaced UA and AA as my carrier of choice. I can get to ORD easily enough and fly B6 from there, but why would I?

Anyway, to the issue at hand. A previous poster suggested that B6 afficianados think that airline is the absolute ideal among airlines and can never do wrong. Perhaps a root cause of the delays is that those B6 fans are just a tad too full of ... poop ... which clogs up the toilets?
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:12 pm

Ive never seen a flight canceled or delayed because of the new "spaceflex" aft lavs. At most they are just inoperable for that flight and get fixed whenever the plane has some ground time.

Spaceflex lavs are bad for the customer experience because the ones in the very back are tiny and they reduce the back galley space by 1/2, which leads to slower service and less space in the back to stretch and/or have a friendly chat with the FAs. Also the destruction of back galley space is forcing flight attendants to eat their meals in the mid cabin jumpseats next to the pax, since they would rather not eat on the jumpseats directly across from those tiny aft lavs (which are known to leak fluids out from under the doors and into those jumpseats, which kind of spoils ones appetite.) Lines also build up and stretch into the back galley which further slows down the FAs trying to get drinks/snacks for pax.

There is less storage space in this configuration, which means less stock of drinks/snacks/etc. Things do run out, which in turn also hurt the customer experience on these zodiac configured planes.

There has to be another way besides this zodiac spaceflex disaster.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:35 am

jumbojet wrote:
Just wondering, B6's oldest planes are approaching 17 years old. It would seem that B6 has chosen to refurbish its fleet as opposed to placing an order for new planes? I guess they're going to want to get every possible dimes worth out of the A320's.


Wait a minute, 17 year old A320's are a problem but 30 year old 757's, 767's, and MD88's aren't? You really make me laugh dude.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:04 am

jumbojet wrote:
N766UA wrote:
Like sardines?! Have you flown jetblue?

I have. The sardine comment comes into play because of JetBlue adding more seats to its planes thus eliminating the highly desirable seat pitch that jetBlue was able to tout.

32" pitch is sardine? I find the 33" luxurious.
https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/JetBl ... A321_B.php

If that is a problem, only at Thanksgiving is even more space pricey.

Sardine is AA's 30" pitch:
https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Ameri ... 319_V3.php

Or DL has 30" also
https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Delta ... _B_new.php

Or UA has 30"
https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Unite ... -900_F.php


How is 32" Sardine when the US3 all sell 30" seat pitch? Please explain. I find 32" fine. I find 30" uncomfortable (I'm 6 feet tall). Of course, seat dependent, but JetBlue seats are comfy.

Please explain the Sardine comment when the competition is much worse.
Here is Sardine (Spirit) , 28"
https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Spiri ... 321_V2.php

If it keeps JetBlue price competitive, I'm quite fine with two more inches of legroom than the competition instead of three. (Or 4 versus Spirit).

Lightsaber
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jfklganyc
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:06 am

Rarely take a delay for a broken lav. Just MEL and on the way.

There is a push and pull between posters with regards to B6.

1. To one poster: B6 is not a horrible airline; please stop making it sound like everything is crap.

2. To the other poster, please stop blaming ATC for B6's woes.

ATC (Specifically JFK) is one small part of B6's on time problem. The real problems lie: overuse of airplanes, lower staffing margins vs other airlines for pilots/flight attendants, tight turns, slow boarding process to gain ancillary revenue, lower staffing for mx than other airlines.

As for the JFK problem...NY is a very hard place to work, live and play. It is why we lose thousands of people every year to other states. If I get on the Cross Bronx or BQE at rush hour for a 5 mile ride and think it is going to take 10 minutes, I am a moron and will be late for work. As a matter of fact, if I get on those highways at anytime of the day or night, it will take longer than 10 minutes because there is now round the clock traffic on those roads.

JFK and LGA are the Cross Bronx of airports. They are miserable airports that were built 60 years ago and were never intended to move the traffic they currently move.

There are ways to mitigate the effects of the Cross Bronx and JFK. You leave early; allow more time.

JetBlue knowingly runs 150-180 departures a day through JFK. They do so with few spare aircraft. They do so with minimal cancellations in bad weather. They do so with all the other shoe string measures mentioned above. They do this because it is very profitable. End of story.

It is easy to blame ATC.

Tonight, JFK is running 4 hour 55 min delays. Bad weather and one runway is closed through November. They are on the dreaded ILS 13L.

I have many years of flying into NYC. ILS 13L means 4 hour delays starting at 11 am. It stays that way until 7 or 8 pm when it jumps to 5 hour delays.

I, a dumb pilot, know this. JetBlue also knows this.

You will go to T5 tonight and see a sh*t show. We can all blame ATC. But, it is just the reality of ILS 13L at JFK and JetBlue's failure to plan for it too maximize revenue.
 
IPFreely
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:12 am

Super80Fan wrote:
Wait a minute, 17 year old A320's are a problem but 30 year old 757's, 767's, and MD88's aren't? You really make me laugh dude.


OK, let's stick with facts here. Out of 238 aircraft, Jetblue has a total of four (4) airplanes that are 17 years old or older:

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/J ... ys?sort=dd

Average age of airline fleets:
Alaska 7.2 years
JetBlue 9.4 years
American 10.2 years
Southwest 10.6 years
Hawaiian 10.8 years
United 14.3 years
Delta 17.2 years
 
fastmover
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:15 am

jumbojet wrote:
N766UA wrote:
Like sardines?! Have you flown jetblue?



I have. The sardine comment comes into play because of JetBlue adding more seats to its planes thus eliminating the highly desirable seat pitch that jetBlue was able to tout.

JetBlue said it themselves that there are issues with the retrofits in particular the lavs going out of service which ultimately, those lavs have to get fixed. So my thing is, is ATC really the cause of B6's delayed fligths day in an day out?

Let me say, no airline is perfect. I'll admit I get caught up in thinking that DL is perfect but they're not. B6 fans I think are very guilty of that to, that B6 can do no wrong, everything the airline does is perfect. I think this is possibly a situation that B6 is blaming ATC yet the root cause is something entirely different (lavs) or lack of other maintenance on its aging fleet.. It wouldn't be the first time an airline does something like that. Why blame yourself when you can blame the government?

Just wondering, B6's oldest planes are approaching 17 years old. It would seem that B6 has chosen to refurbish its fleet as opposed to placing an order for new planes? I guess they're going to want to get every possible dimes worth out of the A320's.




Respectfully jumbo a lot of your posts are about what you THINK.
There are other people who literally literally know what is going on and it’s still about what you THINK
The other problem is your bias against jetblue has been shown in many posts so you can understand why some of us don’t give you the benefit of the doubt.

Now having said that and to keep this on topic. I and others have said that jetblue has had challenges this summer. It was the busiest schedule ever flown and they had to pull some of it back. Some had to do with the way jetblue schedules, they choose short turn times and really don’t overblock flight times. This in a way gets them a “free or extra plane” but any any small problem and it just gets bigger and bigger. Now you can debate if this is wise or not but it’s one way to do extra flying without having extra planes. The other thing was ATC and it’s a fact backed up with government numbers. Yes Delta is in JFK and Boston but they can move the delays to the regional partner and stop their mainline flights from being super late. Jetblue can’t do that. ATC was a mess and Boston was a total mess. As far as old planes last I checked Delta is flying around in some old planes, JetBlue is doing a fleet review which should be out in January. Other than that I think this year they are getting a new plane every 2 months so the fleet isn’t as old as you think. The other thing to remember is this issue was on the newer 321s. Also even with the extra rows they will still have more legroom than any other airline. So if the people are sardines on jetblue what are the on Delta? Oh and that legroom is for the regular guy we aren’t even talking EML seats,
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:19 am

IPFreely wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
Wait a minute, 17 year old A320's are a problem but 30 year old 757's, 767's, and MD88's aren't? You really make me laugh dude.


OK, let's stick with facts here. Out of 238 aircraft, Jetblue has a total of four (4) airplanes that are 17 years old or older:

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/J ... ys?sort=dd

Average age of airline fleets:
Alaska 7.2 years
JetBlue 9.4 years
American 10.2 years
Southwest 10.6 years
Hawaiian 10.8 years
United 14.3 years
Delta 17.2 years


Exactly, JetBlue has one of the younger fleets in the US. We are really starting to grasp here...
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
IPFreely
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:11 am

fastmover wrote:
Yes Delta is in JFK and Boston but they can move the delays to the regional partner and stop their mainline flights from being super late. Jetblue can’t do that. ATC was a mess and Boston was a total mess. As far as old planes last I checked Delta is flying around in some old planes, JetBlue is doing a fleet review which should be out in January. Other than that I think this year they are getting a new plane every 2 months so the fleet isn’t as old as you think. The other thing to remember is this issue was on the newer 321s. Also even with the extra rows they will still have more legroom than any other airline. So if the people are sardines on jetblue what are the on Delta? Oh and that legroom is for the regular guy we aren’t even talking EML seats,


Bingo.

fastmover wrote:
As far as old planes last I checked Delta is flying around in some old planes, JetBlue is doing a fleet review which should be out in January. Other than that I think this year they are getting a new plane every 2 months so the fleet isn’t as old as you think.


See above. JetBlue has the 2nd newest fleet of all major US carriers. Delta has the oldest, by far.

fastmover wrote:
The other thing to remember is this issue was on the newer 321s. Also even with the extra rows they will still have more legroom than any other airline. So if the people are sardines on jetblue what are the on Delta? Oh and that legroom is for the regular guy we aren’t even talking EML seats,


If people are sardines on JetBlue then they're less than sardines on Delta. And if you're flying most domestic routes, Delta seats don't apply since Delta will stuff you into an Endeavor Air, Expressjet, or GoJet CRJ. After an hour or so in one of those flying shoeboxes, a JetBlue plane looks like a palace.
 
jumbojet
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:56 pm

I'm an educated person with a good job as is a majority of the folks on here.

Here's the deal. JetBlue can say its XYZ that's causing the delayed flights which in this case XYZ = ATC.

But without an outside, independent investigation into what's really causing these delays, are we to just simply believe what B6 says? I mean, maybe it is ATC, maybe its not. if your a B6 fan, then you will believe anything they tell you. When you start looking at tangible evidence, it makes a person, like myself, skeptical about B6's ATC claims. I mean, this issue has been on-going so you would think that B6 would implement some sort of plan of action to reduce these delays as opposed to just sitting back and hoping ATC fixes the problem for them. So, this isn't me getting on B6 but I call their bluff on what the real, underlying cause is.

Its a fair question to ask and if you think its slamming JetBlue then it is what it is. B6 needs to be held more accountable for these types of disruptions to their schedule, especially when they are trying to cater to business travelers who are spending the big bucks. They don't want to hear its an ATC problem, they want to hear how B6 plans on fixing the issue which,, doesn't mean relying on ATC to come to the rescue.

What's also interesting to note is how JetBlue is the only airline to advertise the ATC issues on their homepage. No other airline in the U.S. does that. Hmmm, makes you wonder......
 
tphuang
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:13 pm

jumbojet wrote:
I'm an educated person with a good job as is a majority of the folks on here.

Here's the deal. JetBlue can say its XYZ that's causing the delayed flights which in this case XYZ = ATC.

But without an outside, independent investigation into what's really causing these delays, are we to just simply believe what B6 says? I mean, maybe it is ATC, maybe its not. if your a B6 fan, then you will believe anything they tell you. When you start looking at tangible evidence, it makes a person, like myself, skeptical about B6's ATC claims. I mean, this issue has been on-going so you would think that B6 would implement some sort of plan of action to reduce these delays as opposed to just sitting back and hoping ATC fixes the problem for them. So, this isn't me getting on B6 but I call their bluff on what the real, underlying cause is.

Its a fair question to ask and if you think its slamming JetBlue then it is what it is. B6 needs to be held more accountable for these types of disruptions to their schedule, especially when they are trying to cater to business travelers who are spending the big bucks. They don't want to hear its an ATC problem, they want to hear how B6 plans on fixing the issue which,, doesn't mean relying on ATC to come to the rescue.

What's also interesting to note is how JetBlue is the only airline to advertise the ATC issues on their homepage. No other airline in the U.S. does that. Hmmm, makes you wonder......


It's because they have the most to gain. Plain and simple. If extra slots ever becomes available with massively improved atc, JetBlue has more to gain than any other airline.
 
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mikegigs
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:16 pm

B6 using ATC as a cover up for their bathroom problems..... the conspiracy of the century! :rotfl:

Additionally, even if their fleet was as old as dirt a la DL (and airline, alongside B6, which I like very much), why wouldn't they try to squeeze every dime out of their aircraft? Wouldn't it be bad business if they threw away planes that weren't ready for retirement?

Next we're gonna see a thread about how UA retired the 744 to draw attention away from them dehubbing SFO :biggrin:
Airports: BOS, JAX, JFK, EWR, LGA, CVG, ATL, CLT, DCA, IAD, STT, PVD, ALB, MCO
Aircraft: 733, 735, 73G, 738, 752, 717, A319, A320, MD-88, E190, E175, E145, CRJ-200, CRJ-700, Q400
Airlines: B6, CO, DL, US, NW, WN, DH
...a good start but a long way to go!
 
jumbojet
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:22 pm

mikegigs wrote:
B6 using ATC as a cover up for their bathroom problems..... the conspiracy of the century! :rotfl:

:


You obviously want to read what you want to read. B6 is using ATC for a cover up for the chronic delayed flights. Did you not read the title to this thread? :roll:

I guess your one of those people that believe everything you read.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:41 pm

jumbojet wrote:
I'm an educated person with a good job as is a majority of the folks on here.

Here's the deal. JetBlue can say its XYZ that's causing the delayed flights which in this case XYZ = ATC.

But without an outside, independent investigation into what's really causing these delays, are we to just simply believe what B6 says? I mean, maybe it is ATC, maybe its not. if your a B6 fan, then you will believe anything they tell you. When you start looking at tangible evidence, it makes a person, like myself, skeptical about B6's ATC claims. I mean, this issue has been on-going so you would think that B6 would implement some sort of plan of action to reduce these delays as opposed to just sitting back and hoping ATC fixes the problem for them. So, this isn't me getting on B6 but I call their bluff on what the real, underlying cause is.

Its a fair question to ask and if you think its slamming JetBlue then it is what it is. B6 needs to be held more accountable for these types of disruptions to their schedule, especially when they are trying to cater to business travelers who are spending the big bucks. They don't want to hear its an ATC problem, they want to hear how B6 plans on fixing the issue which,, doesn't mean relying on ATC to come to the rescue.

What's also interesting to note is how JetBlue is the only airline to advertise the ATC issues on their homepage. No other airline in the U.S. does that. Hmmm, makes you wonder......


Again, par for the course with you. I've had more issues/delays with Delta than I have with JetBlue, but I still fly and like Delta. Don't even get me started on Delta Connection, where unless you are flying on Endeavor Air you get a lackluster experience (haven't been on an ExpressJet flight yet that has had two working toilets).
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fastmover
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:54 pm

jumbojet wrote:
I'm an educated person with a good job as is a majority of the folks on here.

Here's the deal. JetBlue can say its XYZ that's causing the delayed flights which in this case XYZ = ATC.

But without an outside, independent investigation into what's really causing these delays, are we to just simply believe what B6 says? I mean, maybe it is ATC, maybe its not. if your a B6 fan, then you will believe anything they tell you. When you start looking at tangible evidence, it makes a person, like myself, skeptical about B6's ATC claims. I mean, this issue has been on-going so you would think that B6 would implement some sort of plan of action to reduce these delays as opposed to just sitting back and hoping ATC fixes the problem for them. So, this isn't me getting on B6 but I call their bluff on what the real, underlying cause is.

Its a fair question to ask and if you think its slamming JetBlue then it is what it is. B6 needs to be held more accountable for these types of disruptions to their schedule, especially when they are trying to cater to business travelers who are spending the big bucks. They don't want to hear its an ATC problem, they want to hear how B6 plans on fixing the issue which,, doesn't mean relying on ATC to come to the rescue.

What's also interesting to note is how JetBlue is the only airline to advertise the ATC issues on their homepage. No other airline in the U.S. does that. Hmmm, makes you wonder......



Yes there is Data. Go look up the delays this summer and where the runway construction was an you tell me.

You don't believe because you don't want to.

Again allow yourself to look past your biases and see that yes ATC has a major impact on JetBlue operations. Is that the only issue NO and everyone here has said that.

JetBlue is working on the internal side of it.
They cut their schedule back in the summer and are in about the second phase of an on time program. I'm sure you know that they just changed the way they board (doing groups now) to help speed the process up. But that is internal and they have control over that(as long as they get it to work)

They have no control over an old ATC system where the vast majority of their flights are operating in super busy airspace. I don't see what is wrong with them pushing for a better system which we all know we need.

And as for being held accountable it's called capitalism, if it's that bad people will find a different carrier but that does not seem to be the case.

Speaking of held accountable I'm looking forward to the day all the Delta connection delays are wrapped up in Deltas numbers.

And as far as businesses guys go they know the deal. They understand if you are flying between BOS to LGA or EWR or JFK there is most likely going to be an ATC delay. Hos else would you explain that.

The thing is your argument is based around your theory being correct that it's not an ATC problem it's something else because JetBlue is lying. Or it could be a combination of things just like every airline out there. But I guess living in your world next time we have a GDP to EWR I'll just tell the pax it's NOT ATC it's our broken ( but it's not broken lav)

Again is it all ATC no but much of it is.
JetBlue is working on the internal things it can control and trying to fix a system they have no control over.
Last edited by fastmover on Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
jumbojet
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:30 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
I'm an educated person with a good job as is a majority of the folks on here.

Here's the deal. JetBlue can say its XYZ that's causing the delayed flights which in this case XYZ = ATC.

But without an outside, independent investigation into what's really causing these delays, are we to just simply believe what B6 says? I mean, maybe it is ATC, maybe its not. if your a B6 fan, then you will believe anything they tell you. When you start looking at tangible evidence, it makes a person, like myself, skeptical about B6's ATC claims. I mean, this issue has been on-going so you would think that B6 would implement some sort of plan of action to reduce these delays as opposed to just sitting back and hoping ATC fixes the problem for them. So, this isn't me getting on B6 but I call their bluff on what the real, underlying cause is.

Its a fair question to ask and if you think its slamming JetBlue then it is what it is. B6 needs to be held more accountable for these types of disruptions to their schedule, especially when they are trying to cater to business travelers who are spending the big bucks. They don't want to hear its an ATC problem, they want to hear how B6 plans on fixing the issue which,, doesn't mean relying on ATC to come to the rescue.

What's also interesting to note is how JetBlue is the only airline to advertise the ATC issues on their homepage. No other airline in the U.S. does that. Hmmm, makes you wonder......


Again, par for the course with you. I've had more issues/delays with Delta than I have with JetBlue, but I still fly and like Delta. Don't even get me started on Delta Connection, where unless you are flying on Endeavor Air you get a lackluster experience (haven't been on an ExpressJet flight yet that has had two working toilets).


When and IF JetBlue becomes as big as Delta then we can fairly compare DL and B6. Let us not forget that B6 is largely a domestic airline (outside of a few Central America outposts). B6 needs to get its house in order and stop blaming outside influences for its problems.

Interesting to note, yesterday, at least according to flightaware, DL didn't have a single cancelled flight. Amazing. I am sure you will find your share that were delayed but it flightaware is accurate, that's pretty good planning and operations at work for you. You want to know B6's #'s?
Last edited by jumbojet on Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:33 pm

jumbojet wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
I'm an educated person with a good job as is a majority of the folks on here.

Here's the deal. JetBlue can say its XYZ that's causing the delayed flights which in this case XYZ = ATC.

But without an outside, independent investigation into what's really causing these delays, are we to just simply believe what B6 says? I mean, maybe it is ATC, maybe its not. if your a B6 fan, then you will believe anything they tell you. When you start looking at tangible evidence, it makes a person, like myself, skeptical about B6's ATC claims. I mean, this issue has been on-going so you would think that B6 would implement some sort of plan of action to reduce these delays as opposed to just sitting back and hoping ATC fixes the problem for them. So, this isn't me getting on B6 but I call their bluff on what the real, underlying cause is.

Its a fair question to ask and if you think its slamming JetBlue then it is what it is. B6 needs to be held more accountable for these types of disruptions to their schedule, especially when they are trying to cater to business travelers who are spending the big bucks. They don't want to hear its an ATC problem, they want to hear how B6 plans on fixing the issue which,, doesn't mean relying on ATC to come to the rescue.

What's also interesting to note is how JetBlue is the only airline to advertise the ATC issues on their homepage. No other airline in the U.S. does that. Hmmm, makes you wonder......


Again, par for the course with you. I've had more issues/delays with Delta than I have with JetBlue, but I still fly and like Delta. Don't even get me started on Delta Connection, where unless you are flying on Endeavor Air you get a lackluster experience (haven't been on an ExpressJet flight yet that has had two working toilets).


When and IF JetBlue becomes as big as Delta then we can fairly compare DL and B6. Let us not forget that B6 is largely a domestic airline (outside of a few Central America outposts). B6 needs to get its house in order and stop blaming outside influences for its problems.

Interesting to note, yesterday, at least according to flightaware, DL didn't have a single cancelled flight. Amazing. I am sure you will find your share that were delayed but it flightaware is accurate, that's pretty good planning and operations at work for you.


And yet, you still aren't addressing the elephant in the room, Delta Connection. The top 5 airlines yesterday with delays/cancellations were Endeavor, Republic, JetBlue, ExpressJet, and Envoy. Delta Connection is three out of those 5. Might as well post all of the facts, not just the part that suits you.
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jumbojet
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:34 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:

Again, par for the course with you. I've had more issues/delays with Delta than I have with JetBlue, but I still fly and like Delta. Don't even get me started on Delta Connection, where unless you are flying on Endeavor Air you get a lackluster experience (haven't been on an ExpressJet flight yet that has had two working toilets).


When and IF JetBlue becomes as big as Delta then we can fairly compare DL and B6. Let us not forget that B6 is largely a domestic airline (outside of a few Central America outposts). B6 needs to get its house in order and stop blaming outside influences for its problems.

Interesting to note, yesterday, at least according to flightaware, DL didn't have a single cancelled flight. Amazing. I am sure you will find your share that were delayed but it flightaware is accurate, that's pretty good planning and operations at work for you.


And yet, you still aren't addressing the elephant in the room, Delta Connection. The top 5 airlines yesterday with delays/cancellations were Endeavor, Republic, JetBlue, ExpressJet, and Envoy. Delta Connection is three out of those 5. Might as well post all of the facts, not just the part that suits you.


The elephant in the room is B6. What is this thread titled? Thank you. If you want to blast Delta Connection then be my guest. Start a new thread. DC has its problems but for a connection carrier, it does pretty damn well.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:13 pm

Come on man now you’re talking a lack of integrity in your post.

I try not to get too emotional like other posters, but You are now insulting our intelligence.

JFK Yesterday was running five hour delays all day long. LGA 2 hour delays All day long.

The reason that Delta didn’t have a cancellation: most of their flying out of LaGuardia and a huge chunk of their flying out of Kennedy is delta branded regional flying.

They cancel those first To preserve mainline flying.

if you cannot acknowledge that fact , no opinion, Get off the site.
 
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:30 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
And yet, you still aren't addressing the elephant in the room, Delta Connection. The top 5 airlines yesterday with delays/cancellations were Endeavor, Republic, JetBlue, ExpressJet, and Envoy. Delta Connection is three out of those 5. Might as well post all of the facts, not just the part that suits you.


Delta Connection is collectively an awful operation. The fact that Delta PR spins their operational statistics as good and points out competitors as inferior while turning their back on their own miserable regional airline statistics is why many business travellers who frequent small and medium domestic airports do not take Delta seriously. In my case I believe I could count on Delta. But if I used “Delta”, much of my travel would actually be Delta Connection which performs at a level below every other airline.
 
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:47 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Rarely take a delay for a broken lav. Just MEL and on the way.
There is a push and pull between posters with regards to B6.
1. To one poster: B6 is not a horrible airline; please stop making it sound like everything is crap.
2. To the other poster, please stop blaming ATC for B6's woes.
ATC (Specifically JFK) is one small part of B6's on time problem. The real problems lie: overuse of airplanes, lower staffing margins vs other airlines for pilots/flight attendants, tight turns, slow boarding process to gain ancillary revenue, lower staffing for mx than other airlines.
As for the JFK problem...NY is a very hard place to work, live and play. It is why we lose thousands of people every year to other states. If I get on the Cross Bronx or BQE at rush hour for a 5 mile ride and think it is going to take 10 minutes, I am a moron and will be late for work. As a matter of fact, if I get on those highways at anytime of the day or night, it will take longer than 10 minutes because there is now round the clock traffic on those roads.
JFK and LGA are the Cross Bronx of airports. They are miserable airports that were built 60 years ago and were never intended to move the traffic they currently move.
There are ways to mitigate the effects of the Cross Bronx and JFK. You leave early; allow more time.
JetBlue knowingly runs 150-180 departures a day through JFK. They do so with few spare aircraft. They do so with minimal cancellations in bad weather. They do so with all the other shoe string measures mentioned above. They do this because it is very profitable. End of story.
It is easy to blame ATC.
Tonight, JFK is running 4 hour 55 min delays. Bad weather and one runway is closed through November. They are on the dreaded ILS 13L.
I have many years of flying into NYC. ILS 13L means 4 hour delays starting at 11 am. It stays that way until 7 or 8 pm when it jumps to 5 hour delays.
I, a dumb pilot, know this. JetBlue also knows this.
You will go to T5 tonight and see a sh*t show. We can all blame ATC. But, it is just the reality of ILS 13L at JFK and JetBlue's failure to plan for it too maximize revenue.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: I don't know why everyone can't post an intelligent, knowledgeable, and reasoned response like this. Instead, we get too much bickering, and snide comments from the usual suspects.

Thank you for that analysis. It makes sense!
 
richierich
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:57 pm

Yesterday was absolutely miserable weather in the Northeast USA. It was dreadful, rain and high wind all day. Not a good day for flying in this region. All airlines were affected and it was a giant mess. We all know that the NYC airports struggle on good weather days, so it figures that yesterday must have been a jam.

For jumbojet to point out that DL "didn't cancel a single flight" during what amounts to a decently-sized nor'easter also fails to point out that there were significant delays and literally SCORES (hundreds?) of cancellations across the board by DL's regionals. Here are some sample Delta flights from yesterday:

- DL LGABOS 7 flights, 3 cancelled (those that operated took 2-3 hour delays)
- DL JFKMSY 3 flights, 1 cancelled (1 regional flown, 1 main line flown, 1 regional cancelled)
- DL JFKRDU 4 flights, 2 cancelled (all regional)
- DL JFKATL 7 flights, all operated (all main line)
- DL JFKBUF 4 flights, 2 cancelled (all regional)
- DL JFKJAX 3 flights, 1 cancelled (all regional)
- DL JFKMCO 4 flights, all operated (all main line)
- DL LGABTV 3 flights, 1 cancelled (all regional, one diverted to ALB, significant delays on both operated flights)
- DL LGACMH 3 flights, 1 cancelled (all regional)
- DL EWRCVG 2 flights, 1 cancelled (both regional)
- DL CLTJFK 3 flights, 2 cancelled (all regional)

This sample does not prove anything other than to illustrate how some of the regional flights were sacrificed in order to operate the main line flights. To point out that <i>no DL flights</i> were cancelled is hiding behind the vail of their regional connection carriers. Talk about duck and cover...no wonder the FAA wants to include regional flights into airline delay/cx statistics. My opinion about this little survey is that, frankly, I am surprised so few Delta flights of any type were cancelled yesterday, but I didn't look at all flights.

Going back to the original post, to infer that B6 is incurring significant delays because of bad toilets (and then blaming ATC) is laughable. What a bunch of crap. I'm no expert, but even I can see that the A321s in this configuration are a relatively small part of their fleet, so they are not going to impact hundreds of other flights. Even I know that B6 has two major hubs/focus cities in congested Northeast airspace, which is only made worse by runway repaving/reconstruction projects and bad weather. Is that B6's choice? Sure, because they reap the benefits of being a big player in JFK and BOS when things are going well. But when things don't go well, the statistics are proportionally going to be worse than other carriers who have major hubs elsewhere around the country to offset some of the damage, and as described above, a regional carrier network to be the fall guy. Why is this so hard to accept? To think that there must be some sort of conspiracy here isn't just dumb, it's unfounded and completely subjective.

As somebody who flies a lot, far too often in coach, trust me when I say that DL is nothing special. You heard it here first, jumbojet. DO I hate them or loathe them? No. I have had some good flights and some not so good flights on Delta. Are they better or worse than AA or UA? Hard to say, all three airlines have a global presence and offer a similar economy product. If anything, it comes down to plane choice a lot of the time for me. Mainline is better than regional every time. DL tends to have the oldest mainline fleet, which doesn't bother me, but spending anything more than an hour in an old B757 or Mad Dog isn't that appealing to me, especially because the seat pitch isn't too great. Given a choice, I prefer WN or B6, the latter at least offering free WiFi and tv, although I do worry about B6's reconfiguration and how that will impact the pitch. But I will say, that from New York anyway, no airline is immune to delays and cancellations. It is a fact of life when flying out of EWR/LGA/JFK, as I tend to do a lot.

No airline is perfect. Not B6, not WN, and certainly not DL. So, to the OP, please stop with your nonsense threads and one-sided posts that are, at best, unhelpful and, at worst, downright insulting for the rest of us.
None shall pass!!!!
 
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:03 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
The real problems lie: overuse of airplanes, lower staffing margins vs other airlines for pilots/flight attendants, tight turns, slow boarding process to gain ancillary revenue, lower staffing for mx than other airlines.

They do so with few spare aircraft. They do so with minimal cancellations in bad weather. They do so with all the other shoe string measures mentioned above. They do this because it is very profitable. End of story.

QF are having similar problems from intensity of use. Short-term, flatters the bottom line. Longer term, you lose customers, takes the shine off JV's, and longer-term, actually adds cost.

Changing the CEO's Key Result Areas / Performance Indicators will have the desired effect, but who is motivated beyond short-term profit maximisation, other than the ME3?
 
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:06 pm

jumbojet wrote:
mikegigs wrote:
B6 using ATC as a cover up for their bathroom problems..... the conspiracy of the century! :rotfl:

:


You obviously want to read what you want to read. B6 is using ATC for a cover up for the chronic delayed flights. Did you not read the title to this thread? :roll:

I guess your one of those people that believe everything you read.


You're*
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:17 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
Don't even get me started on Delta Connection, where unless you are flying on Endeavor Air you get a lackluster experience (haven't been on an ExpressJet flight yet that has had two working toilets).

Compass wasn't bad (at least I think Compass was the Connection carrier operating my flight). I haven't, however, experienced the others, so I can't speak to their operational reliability.
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fastmover
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:43 pm

jumbojet wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

When and IF JetBlue becomes as big as Delta then we can fairly compare DL and B6. Let us not forget that B6 is largely a domestic airline (outside of a few Central America outposts). B6 needs to get its house in order and stop blaming outside influences for its problems.

Interesting to note, yesterday, at least according to flightaware, DL didn't have a single cancelled flight. Amazing. I am sure you will find your share that were delayed but it flightaware is accurate, that's pretty good planning and operations at work for you.


And yet, you still aren't addressing the elephant in the room, Delta Connection. The top 5 airlines yesterday with delays/cancellations were Endeavor, Republic, JetBlue, ExpressJet, and Envoy. Delta Connection is three out of those 5. Might as well post all of the facts, not just the part that suits you.


The elephant in the room is B6. What is this thread titled? Thank you. If you want to blast Delta Connection then be my guest. Start a new thread. DC has its problems but for a connection carrier, it does pretty damn well.



No.

The problem is you are saying JetBlue is late and has issues and it's not ATC because nobody else has these issues.

What we keep telling you is yes JetBlue has issues but to say it's not an ATC issue because Delta does not have these delays is not correct.

Delta does not have those delays because they can put them on DC while JetBlue has no such option.

THAT IS A FACT.

I know you want to ignore that because if you recognized said fact it would blow away your argument. And no you can't just say D.C. Has their own problems. They are Deltas problems. If not who's are they? In big letters DELTA in small letters connection in even smaller letters operated by. So it's a Delta problem.
 
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:27 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
What a surprise, a Zodiac product isn't up to standard....


The Zodiac products are fine. It's just that they get delayed to the equivalent of Boeing delivering a 307 to Pan Am in 2023.
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IPFreely
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:09 am

So far today, six flights branded as and sold by JetBlue have been cancelled.
So far today, over sixty flights branded as and sold by Delta have been cancelled.
Which airline has toilet problems again?
 
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:44 am

IPFreely wrote:
So far today, six flights branded as and sold by JetBlue have been cancelled.
So far today, over sixty flights branded as and sold by Delta have been cancelled.
Which airline has toilet problems again?


hardly a fair comparison. Again, let me reiterate for the folks that lack common sense. Delta is a world wide carrier that flies to many, many different continents and that has many planes and many moving parts. B6 is a domestic carrier that lacks all of that. Today, over 20% of B6's schedule has once again been delayed. Unacceptable. Delta, as a stand alone carrier, less than 10%. Now, if you add up all the delta connection flights, delta main line flights and compare that to the domestic reach of JetBlue, JetBlue should be ashamed of themselves with all its cancellations and delays.

A fair comparison would be JetBlue to Spirit; JetBlue to Frontier; JetBlue to Alaska; JetBlue to Southwest.

DL is in a completely different class. Period. They are a legacy airline. Compare them to AA and UA. That is a fair comparison. Heck, even DOT distinguishes differences between legacy carriers and non legacy carriers. When and if B6 grows up and is ready to play with the big boys, than we can talk and then I will be back on this particular thread. One final thought....

Anybody can see right through JetBlue blaming outside influences, in this case, ATC, on their own operational issues. :roll: :roll:
 
fastmover
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:37 am

jumbojet wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
So far today, six flights branded as and sold by JetBlue have been cancelled.
So far today, over sixty flights branded as and sold by Delta have been cancelled.
Which airline has toilet problems again?


hardly a fair comparison. Again, let me reiterate for the folks that lack common sense. Delta is a world wide carrier that flies to many, many different continents and that has many planes and many moving parts. B6 is a domestic carrier that lacks all of that. Today, over 20% of B6's schedule has once again been delayed. Unacceptable. Delta, as a stand alone carrier, less than 10%. Now, if you add up all the delta connection flights, delta main line flights and compare that to the domestic reach of JetBlue, JetBlue should be ashamed of themselves with all its cancellations and delays.

A fair comparison would be JetBlue to Spirit; JetBlue to Frontier; JetBlue to Alaska; JetBlue to Southwest.

DL is in a completely different class. Period. They are a legacy airline. Compare them to AA and UA. That is a fair comparison. Heck, even DOT distinguishes differences between legacy carriers and non legacy carriers. When and if B6 grows up and is ready to play with the big boys, than we can talk and then I will be back on this particular thread. One final thought....

Anybody can see right through JetBlue blaming outside influences, in this case, ATC, on their own operational issues. :roll: :roll:



So Delta delays are OK because they are big and complex JetBlue no so much.

Just remember since JetBlue is small and operates in mainly one geographical area they WOULD be more affected by delays from ATC.

I have never seen someone destroy their own argument.
It is simply pointless to engage with you on any serious level.

I think this thread is done I know I am.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:01 am

jumbojet wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
So far today, six flights branded as and sold by JetBlue have been cancelled.
So far today, over sixty flights branded as and sold by Delta have been cancelled.
Which airline has toilet problems again?


hardly a fair comparison. Again, let me reiterate for the folks that lack common sense. Delta is a world wide carrier that flies to many, many different continents and that has many planes and many moving parts. B6 is a domestic carrier that lacks all of that. Today, over 20% of B6's schedule has once again been delayed. Unacceptable. Delta, as a stand alone carrier, less than 10%. Now, if you add up all the delta connection flights, delta main line flights and compare that to the domestic reach of JetBlue, JetBlue should be ashamed of themselves with all its cancellations and delays.

A fair comparison would be JetBlue to Spirit; JetBlue to Frontier; JetBlue to Alaska; JetBlue to Southwest.

DL is in a completely different class. Period. They are a legacy airline. Compare them to AA and UA. That is a fair comparison. Heck, even DOT distinguishes differences between legacy carriers and non legacy carriers. When and if B6 grows up and is ready to play with the big boys, than we can talk and then I will be back on this particular thread. One final thought....

Anybody can see right through JetBlue blaming outside influences, in this case, ATC, on their own operational issues. :roll: :roll:

Delta has less than 10x the aircraft of JetBlue. A fair comparison.

What about AA's, DL's, and UA's sardine seats with 30" pitch? You criticized 32" on JetBlue. Please explain why a major is halfway to ULCC? 32" is comfortable. :)



Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2541
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:54 am

lightsaber wrote:
Delta has less than 10x the aircraft of JetBlue. A fair comparison.


Delta has 855 aircraft.
Delta Connection has 469 aircraft.
JetBlue has 238 aircraft

On a given day Delta overall should have about 5x the number of cancellations as JetBlue and Delta Connection should have about 2x the number of cancellations of JetBlue, if they have comparable operational performance.

At least for today, they do not have comparable operational performance. When taking fleet size into account, JetBlue is performing far better than Delta Connection and slightly better than Delta overall (mainline + regional) today. Kudos to the folks at JetBlue. As far as mainline only, who cares. JetBlue could take their flights with the most challenging scheduling issues, rebrand them as "JetBlue Connection", then pretend they're not responsible. But that only has meaning to PR folks, to actual travellers it means nothing. As for the topic of this thread, maybe it's Compass, Endeavor, Expressjet, GoJet, and Republic that need to improve the reliability of their toilets?
 
MR27122
Posts: 126
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:14 am

jumbojet wrote:
I'm an educated person with a good job as is a majority of the folks on here.

Here's the deal. JetBlue can say its XYZ that's causing the delayed flights which in this case XYZ = ATC.


Gulp. I'd have chosen "...as are the majority of folks upon this forum", @ least when prefacing your retort w/ education/good job.

Yet, that is semantics & emphasis ought be upon logical response/discourse. I ain't to good @ that but...

-= B6 certainly does have a delay/cancellation issue, I think. I utilize the disclaimer, because it's a personal opinion/experience---I'm Mosaic & fly upon B6 weekly out of BOS. I've experienced an uptick with later day departures--systemwide---being delayed.
-= Atop of B6's website, embedded on right-side header is "Travel Alert". It was updated on 10/12 re: Runway construction & notes JFK & LGA, formerly BOS was upon this list. "During construction, customers traveling to/from these airports may experience longer taxi times or flight delays"-www.jetblue.com.
-= It might be treacherous/fancy language to "blame" ATC for delays due to Runway construction, yet it is a truth.
-= My Wife's SAN-BOS fight was delayed 5 hours a week ago. Before the landing in BOS, B6 had proactively apologized via an email that alerted her to a $150 credit to her travel-bank.
-= B6, due to Black Valentine's Day meltdown of 2007 is the most customer engaged & responsive airline---I know of circa 2017---in regards to a potential or actual flight delay.
-=Conditioning. W/ the advent of ULCC & smart phone camera's (albeit B6 has a fair share of ugly clips), I suspect that any degree of airline humanity towards Pax's...which B6 certainly learned post Feb 2007...results in the rightful sense that they're far more passenger-centric than competitors.

I suggest that the "chronic" ailment is potentially a symptom of over-eager & idealistic scheduling combined w/ ATC issues. Anybody possess B6 delay stats for FLL/LGB vs JFK/FLL?
 
jumbojet
Topic Author
Posts: 2957
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Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:42 am

lightsaber wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
So far today, six flights branded as and sold by JetBlue have been cancelled.
So far today, over sixty flights branded as and sold by Delta have been cancelled.
Which airline has toilet problems again?


hardly a fair comparison. Again, let me reiterate for the folks that lack common sense. Delta is a world wide carrier that flies to many, many different continents and that has many planes and many moving parts. B6 is a domestic carrier that lacks all of that. Today, over 20% of B6's schedule has once again been delayed. Unacceptable. Delta, as a stand alone carrier, less than 10%. Now, if you add up all the delta connection flights, delta main line flights and compare that to the domestic reach of JetBlue, JetBlue should be ashamed of themselves with all its cancellations and delays.

A fair comparison would be JetBlue to Spirit; JetBlue to Frontier; JetBlue to Alaska; JetBlue to Southwest.

DL is in a completely different class. Period. They are a legacy airline. Compare them to AA and UA. That is a fair comparison. Heck, even DOT distinguishes differences between legacy carriers and non legacy carriers. When and if B6 grows up and is ready to play with the big boys, than we can talk and then I will be back on this particular thread. One final thought....

Anybody can see right through JetBlue blaming outside influences, in this case, ATC, on their own operational issues. :roll: :roll:

Delta has less than 10x the aircraft of JetBlue. A fair comparison.

What about AA's, DL's, and UA's sardine seats with 30" pitch? You criticized 32" on JetBlue. Please explain why a major is halfway to ULCC? 32" is comfortable. :)



Lightsaber


Lightsaber, the premise for this thread was not to compare seat pitch etc. but to bring to light the problems that surround JetBlue's daily departure and arrival delays. However, the thread strayed off topic which is fine.

My thing is this, if folks want to make comparisons than they should be done fairly such as comparing B6 to other LCC's. You cant compare B6 to the powerhouses, the legacies. For example, can you imagine how much worse B6 would get with their already atrocious on-time percentages if they had feeder carriers like the legacies did? That's a prime example of the importance to make fair comparisons. I still can't believe that educated, smart people on here try to make these false comparisons. :roll:

I know I cant be the only one that finds it absurd that JetBlue blames ATC for their woes.

Now, if you want to discuss seat pitch in this thread than can we discuss IFE screens? I just got off a DL 737-800 with those newly installed IFE screens. Holy mother of god. In F, those babies have to be some of the biggest and best screens around. What does B6 have, those tiny little micro screens that folks over 50 like me need glasses to see?

Now, before everyone gets in a tizzy, I will reiterate that I think B6 is a good airline that serves a useful purpose. In fact, I will be booking my parents a flight on JetBlue soon; PBI to SWF.

To summarize, you can't believe everything airlines tell us. Doesn't matter if its B6, DL or AA. In this case, its about B6.
Last edited by jumbojet on Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
N757ST
Posts: 932
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 6:00 am

Re: Are Broken Toilets the Cause of JetBlue's Chronically Delayed Flights?

Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:50 am

jumbojet wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

hardly a fair comparison. Again, let me reiterate for the folks that lack common sense. Delta is a world wide carrier that flies to many, many different continents and that has many planes and many moving parts. B6 is a domestic carrier that lacks all of that. Today, over 20% of B6's schedule has once again been delayed. Unacceptable. Delta, as a stand alone carrier, less than 10%. Now, if you add up all the delta connection flights, delta main line flights and compare that to the domestic reach of JetBlue, JetBlue should be ashamed of themselves with all its cancellations and delays.

A fair comparison would be JetBlue to Spirit; JetBlue to Frontier; JetBlue to Alaska; JetBlue to Southwest.

DL is in a completely different class. Period. They are a legacy airline. Compare them to AA and UA. That is a fair comparison. Heck, even DOT distinguishes differences between legacy carriers and non legacy carriers. When and if B6 grows up and is ready to play with the big boys, than we can talk and then I will be back on this particular thread. One final thought....

Anybody can see right through JetBlue blaming outside influences, in this case, ATC, on their own operational issues. :roll: :roll:

Delta has less than 10x the aircraft of JetBlue. A fair comparison.

What about AA's, DL's, and UA's sardine seats with 30" pitch? You criticized 32" on JetBlue. Please explain why a major is halfway to ULCC? 32" is comfortable. :)



Lightsaber


Lightsaber, the premise for this thread was not to compare seat pitch etc. but to bring to light the problems that surround JetBlue's daily departure and arrival delays. However, the thread strayed off topic which is fine.

My thing is this, if folks want to make comparisons than they should be done fairly such as comparing B6 to other LCC's. You cant compare B6 to the powerhouses, the legacies. For example, can you imagine how much worse B6 would get with their already atrocious on-time percentages if they had feeder carriers like the legacies did? They would be off the charts in the wrong direction. They would basically be untouchable in last place. That's a prime example of the importance to make fair comparisons.

I know I cant be the only one that finds it absurd that JetBlue blames ATC for their woes.

Now, if you want to discuss seat pitch in this thread than can we discuss IFE screens? I just got off a DL 737-800 with those newly installed IFE screens. Holy mother of god. In F, those babies have to be some of the biggest and best screens around. What does B6 have, those tiny little micro screens that folks over 50 like me need glasses to see?

Now, before everyone gets in a tizzy, I will reiterate that I think B6 is a good airline that serves a useful purpose. In fact, I will be booking my parents a flight on JetBlue soon; PBI to SWF.

To summarize, you can't believe everything airlines tell us. Doesn't matter if its B6, DL or AA. In this case, its about B6.



If you want to compare new to new... the jetblue a321 has one of the largest screens in economy in the world. If you want to compare F, then i guarantee you Mint has a larger screen then a 737 in domestic first. That said, Delta has a fine product. Jetblue a320s need a refresh, which is coming.

Jumbo, you are very hard to take seriously when all you do is bash ‘blue and put Delta on a pedestal. People aren’t trying to bash Delta, they are just trying to point out the ‘blue isn’t a bag of crap like you make it out to be.

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