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USAOZ
Topic Author
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

will Air Transat ever go back to HNL ?

Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:07 pm

from memory Air Transat used to fly to HNL decade a go or so.

Will they ever return ?

It seems like the sort of destination they should fly to.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2984
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: will Air Transat ever go back to HNL ?

Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:54 pm

I don't ever remember TS flying to HNL. Given how extremely YYZ/YUL-centric TS have become, I'd say the odds of Canada Jetlines serving HNL are better than TS.
 
Jean Leloup
Posts: 2004
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2001 10:46 am

Re: will Air Transat ever go back to HNL ?

Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:06 pm

I disagree that HNL seems like a good TS destination for one reason: it is very expensive. Most of TS' warm-weather destinations are inexpensive places for package vacations. Florida is a bit of an exception centred around the theme-park stuff, etc.

The European destinations are a bit of a different story/market, of course. Also, as Dominion301 mentioned, TS is mostly based in the east these days. Demand from YYZ or YUL is likely small, certainly not enough to justify the widebody that would be required for the route.

From Western Canada, WS and AC/Rouge have Hawai'i well-covered... though I can't tell you how much I'd love to see AS or HA in YYC!
Jean Leloup - original a.net moderator (2001-2005) and still recovering!
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: will Air Transat ever go back to HNL ?

Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:28 pm

I'm not sure they ever flew to Hawaii, however I know that both Canada 3000 and Wardair have, as well as AC on charters.
 
Topguncanada
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:44 am

Re: will Air Transat ever go back to HNL ?

Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:09 pm

I know I flew a TS 330 OGG-YVR circa 2001ish. I don’t recall the exact year however.
 
Jamie514
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 4:36 pm

Re: will Air Transat ever go back to HNL ?

Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:45 pm

Theres at least one photo of a TS 330 in HNL on another website that has photos of jets, and the TS L15 appears in full view on this 2001 JustPlanes footage from OGG https://youtu.be/8eoiLJMahJc?t=1m53s (complimented by a Canada 3000 332 immediately after).

They certainly served Hawaii for a time around the millennium, mostly with weekly charters during high season, I believe.

Do keep in mind that TS primarily exists/functions as a transportation means for the Groupe Transat tour-operators who have the resort contracts. That said, the sun-destination-resort-package capacity has largely been deployed to destinations ex-YVR that are shared with Eastern Canada, such as CUN, PVR and VRA, due to economies of scale gained by lumping Western and Eastern Canada traffic together at common destinations. Dollar for dollar, they can offer better value all around by doing it this way rather than fragmenting off 1 plane load/week to Waikiki where they would be a very small consolidator getting non-preferred prices. With Rouge, Westjet and plenty of Transborder 1-stop options available from pretty much any major Canadian city via the US west coast, this is a non starter.

With regard to Toronto-Hawaii, the typical Transat Holidays customer is not looking to pay more to fly farther for sun holidays, so something like YYZ-HNL is less likely than new Caribbean/Mexican destinations or increased frequency to existing ones. Flight times are also a huge factor - in the time it'd take to do YYZ-HNL-YYZ return, they can squeeze in two full return trips to Mexico/Caribbean more than making up for any fare differences.
 
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Jawaiiansky66
Posts: 107
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Re: will Air Transat ever go back to HNL ?

Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:57 pm

Hawaii is oversaturated with services from western Canada. This partly explains why ALOHA withdrew from YVR after a few years and why HAWAIIAN has not yet taken the plunge. Its better to have two daily flights from SEA and syphon off Canadian passengers from southern BC than it is to start flying directly to places like YVR.

Since Air Transat is based in Montreal, its core business base is in Quebec and Ontario. Its closer to fly to Florida, the Caribbean, Europe and Mexico from these destinations than it is to fly all the way to Hawaii. Plus Hawaii is an expensive destination as there are so few (if any) all inclusive tours, which are so well loved by Canadians, including Quebecers.

I guess they are sticking to their full name...AIR TRANSATLANTIQUE.
 
USAOZ
Topic Author
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

Re: will Air Transat ever go back to HNL ?

Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:07 pm

Jamie514 wrote:
Theres at least one photo of a TS 330 in HNL on another website that has photos of jets, and the TS L15 appears in full view on this 2001 JustPlanes footage from OGG https://youtu.be/8eoiLJMahJc?t=1m53s (complimented by a Canada 3000 332 immediately after).

They certainly served Hawaii for a time around the millennium, mostly with weekly charters during high season, I believe.

Do keep in mind that TS primarily exists/functions as a transportation means for the Groupe Transat tour-operators who have the resort contracts. That said, the sun-destination-resort-package capacity has largely been deployed to destinations ex-YVR that are shared with Eastern Canada, such as CUN, PVR and VRA, due to economies of scale gained by lumping Western and Eastern Canada traffic together at common destinations. Dollar for dollar, they can offer better value all around by doing it this way rather than fragmenting off 1 plane load/week to Waikiki where they would be a very small consolidator getting non-preferred prices. With Rouge, Westjet and plenty of Transborder 1-stop options available from pretty much any major Canadian city via the US west coast, this is a non starter.

With regard to Toronto-Hawaii, the typical Transat Holidays customer is not looking to pay more to fly farther for sun holidays, so something like YYZ-HNL is less likely than new Caribbean/Mexican destinations or increased frequency to existing ones. Flight times are also a huge factor - in the time it'd take to do YYZ-HNL-YYZ return, they can squeeze in two full return trips to Mexico/Caribbean more than making up for any fare differences.

speaking of Canada 3000.

It seemed they ran a very successful operation to HNL & Australia/NZ.

From memory they initially flew to Australia in mid 1990's using a 2 class 757-200 with something like 224 seats in total. They flew YVR/HNL/NAN/SYD & back same way. The Fijians wouldn't give them traffic rights so it was a refueling stop only. Bit of a long haul in a narrowbody.

Then when they became the launch airline for the A332, think they flew same aircraft YYZ/YVR/HNL/BNE/SYD/AKL/RAR/HNL/YVR/YYZ & vice versa every week.

I know a lot of Australians went to Canada for 1st time due to their incredibly low fares.

There hasn't really been any low cost flying between Australia & Canada since. Jetstar only fly SYD/HNL & MEL/HNL & no further using B787's
 
jimbo737
Posts: 562
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:18 am

Re: will Air Transat ever go back to HNL ?

Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:59 pm

C3 was so successful, they went banco.
 
Jamie514
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 4:36 pm

Re: will Air Transat ever go back to HNL ?

Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:29 am

USAOZ wrote:
speaking of Canada 3000.

It seemed they ran a very successful operation to HNL & Australia/NZ.

From memory they initially flew to Australia in mid 1990's using a 2 class 757-200 with something like 224 seats in total. They flew YVR/HNL/NAN/SYD & back same way. The Fijians wouldn't give them traffic rights so it was a refueling stop only. Bit of a long haul in a narrowbody.

Then when they became the launch airline for the A332, think they flew same aircraft YYZ/YVR/HNL/BNE/SYD/AKL/RAR/HNL/YVR/YYZ & vice versa every week.

I know a lot of Australians went to Canada for 1st time due to their incredibly low fares.

There hasn't really been any low cost flying between Australia & Canada since. Jetstar only fly SYD/HNL & MEL/HNL & no further using B787's


Getting off topic of your original question but I believe the 757 were C3's standard configuration all Y class at that seat count. I took them a couple times on YMX-FLL in the late 90's and 3.5 hours was fine. I can't imagine the milk run to Sydney though! That 757 south Pacific stopover point may have changed later on, but I believe the flight continued operating even after the A332 started. C3 and TS had overlapping but not identical business models and C3 was able to market itself differently and fill those island hoppers. I believe alot of Canadian back packers went to Australia for the first time on it too.

At this point your low cost option involves using Rouge and Jetstar and changing in HNL. No idea if that is doable without a night stop or if it would be less than just taking the AC nonstop but its an intriguing idea!
 
77H
Posts: 1574
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: will Air Transat ever go back to HNL ?

Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:47 am

Jamie514 wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
speaking of Canada 3000.

It seemed they ran a very successful operation to HNL & Australia/NZ.

From memory they initially flew to Australia in mid 1990's using a 2 class 757-200 with something like 224 seats in total. They flew YVR/HNL/NAN/SYD & back same way. The Fijians wouldn't give them traffic rights so it was a refueling stop only. Bit of a long haul in a narrowbody.

Then when they became the launch airline for the A332, think they flew same aircraft YYZ/YVR/HNL/BNE/SYD/AKL/RAR/HNL/YVR/YYZ & vice versa every week.

I know a lot of Australians went to Canada for 1st time due to their incredibly low fares.

There hasn't really been any low cost flying between Australia & Canada since. Jetstar only fly SYD/HNL & MEL/HNL & no further using B787's


Getting off topic of your original question but I believe the 757 were C3's standard configuration all Y class at that seat count. I took them a couple times on YMX-FLL in the late 90's and 3.5 hours was fine. I can't imagine the milk run to Sydney though! That 757 south Pacific stopover point may have changed later on, but I believe the flight continued operating even after the A332 started. C3 and TS had overlapping but not identical business models and C3 was able to market itself differently and fill those island hoppers. I believe alot of Canadian back packers went to Australia for the first time on it too.

At this point your low cost option involves using Rouge and Jetstar and changing in HNL. No idea if that is doable without a night stop or if it would be less than just taking the AC nonstop but its an intriguing idea!


Jetstar arrives and departs HNL in the mornings. Rouge arrives and departs in late evening. Canada to Australia would involve an overnight and Australia to Canada would be an all-day layover. Unless you were looking to add Hawaii to your trip probably worth taking AC or QF when it operates nonstop or transiting a US west coast hub.

77H
 
USAOZ
Topic Author
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

Re: will Air Transat ever go back to HNL ?

Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:18 am

Jamie514 wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
speaking of Canada 3000.

It seemed they ran a very successful operation to HNL & Australia/NZ.

From memory they initially flew to Australia in mid 1990's using a 2 class 757-200 with something like 224 seats in total. They flew YVR/HNL/NAN/SYD & back same way. The Fijians wouldn't give them traffic rights so it was a refueling stop only. Bit of a long haul in a narrowbody.

Then when they became the launch airline for the A332, think they flew same aircraft YYZ/YVR/HNL/BNE/SYD/AKL/RAR/HNL/YVR/YYZ & vice versa every week.

I know a lot of Australians went to Canada for 1st time due to their incredibly low fares.

There hasn't really been any low cost flying between Australia & Canada since. Jetstar only fly SYD/HNL & MEL/HNL & no further using B787's


Getting off topic of your original question but I believe the 757 were C3's standard configuration all Y class at that seat count. I took them a couple times on YMX-FLL in the late 90's and 3.5 hours was fine. I can't imagine the milk run to Sydney though! That 757 south Pacific stopover point may have changed later on, but I believe the flight continued operating even after the A332 started. C3 and TS had overlapping but not identical business models and C3 was able to market itself differently and fill those island hoppers. I believe alot of Canadian back packers went to Australia for the first time on it too.

At this point your low cost option involves using Rouge and Jetstar and changing in HNL. No idea if that is doable without a night stop or if it would be less than just taking the AC nonstop but its an intriguing idea!
the 2T 752 that came to OZ, was definitely 2 class. they were doing promos everywhere in OZ in Australia back in mid 90's not just SYD. Yes I vaguely remember doing a stop in NAN on a 2T A332.
 
USAOZ
Topic Author
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

Re: will Air Transat ever go back to HNL ?

Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:22 am

77H wrote:
Jamie514 wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
speaking of Canada 3000.

It seemed they ran a very successful operation to HNL & Australia/NZ.

From memory they initially flew to Australia in mid 1990's using a 2 class 757-200 with something like 224 seats in total. They flew YVR/HNL/NAN/SYD & back same way. The Fijians wouldn't give them traffic rights so it was a refueling stop only. Bit of a long haul in a narrowbody.

Then when they became the launch airline for the A332, think they flew same aircraft YYZ/YVR/HNL/BNE/SYD/AKL/RAR/HNL/YVR/YYZ & vice versa every week.

I know a lot of Australians went to Canada for 1st time due to their incredibly low fares.

There hasn't really been any low cost flying between Australia & Canada since. Jetstar only fly SYD/HNL & MEL/HNL & no further using B787's


Getting off topic of your original question but I believe the 757 were C3's standard configuration all Y class at that seat count. I took them a couple times on YMX-FLL in the late 90's and 3.5 hours was fine. I can't imagine the milk run to Sydney though! That 757 south Pacific stopover point may have changed later on, but I believe the flight continued operating even after the A332 started. C3 and TS had overlapping but not identical business models and C3 was able to market itself differently and fill those island hoppers. I believe alot of Canadian back packers went to Australia for the first time on it too.

At this point your low cost option involves using Rouge and Jetstar and changing in HNL. No idea if that is doable without a night stop or if it would be less than just taking the AC nonstop but its an intriguing idea!


Jetstar arrives and departs HNL in the mornings. Rouge arrives and departs in late evening. Canada to Australia would involve an overnight and Australia to Canada would be an all-day layover. Unless you were looking to add Hawaii to your trip probably worth taking AC or QF when it operates nonstop or transiting a US west coast hub.

77H

JQ no longer flies BNE/HNL nonstop. HA has that monopoly, as does AC BNE/YVR. JQ fares SYD/HNL & MEL/HNL are insanely high from mid-Dec to mid-Jan, as are AC BNE/YVR. QF prices are also a bit stupid. The one stop options to LAX/SFO are much cheaper(not via Asia, too long)
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: will Air Transat ever go back to HNL ?

Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:09 am

USAOZ wrote:
speaking of Canada 3000.

It seemed they ran a very successful operation to HNL & Australia/NZ.

From memory they initially flew to Australia in mid 1990's using a 2 class 757-200 with something like 224 seats in total. They flew YVR/HNL/NAN/SYD & back same way. The Fijians wouldn't give them traffic rights so it was a refueling stop only. Bit of a long haul in a narrowbody.

Then when they became the launch airline for the A332, think they flew same aircraft YYZ/YVR/HNL/BNE/SYD/AKL/RAR/HNL/YVR/YYZ & vice versa every week.

I know a lot of Australians went to Canada for 1st time due to their incredibly low fares.

There hasn't really been any low cost flying between Australia & Canada since. Jetstar only fly SYD/HNL & MEL/HNL & no further using B787's


Here's a "network" map including Oceania: https://alchetron.com/Canada-3000-2041122-W

And C3 was all-Y. Their 332s were configured with 8 seats per abreast: http://airlinespastpresent.blogspot.ch/ ... 20Airlines
 
Jamie514
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 4:36 pm

Re: will Air Transat ever go back to HNL ?

Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:52 pm

Have confirmed by an old Anet thread from late 90’s that one B757 was reconfigured to 38J/167Y specifically for the SYD run. Thankfully the old forum archives remain for us!

I can recall seeing marketing for the Oz flights in the inflight magazine when I flew them in 97-99, but can’t say I remember mention of J class availability but it seems to have briefly existed.

viewtopic.php?t=11567

I am fairly sure none of their 4 A332 operated in anything but pure Y (but roomy old school 2-4-2 with decent pitch), but who knows!
 
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longhauler
Posts: 6488
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

Re: will Air Transat ever go back to HNL ?

Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:36 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
And C3 was all-Y. Their 332s were configured with 8 seats per abreast: http://airlinespastpresent.blogspot.ch/ ... 20Airlines

I am not sure of the date of that brochure.

I am looking at a C3 timetable of Summer 1999. It shows seat charts for the 340Y seat A330, 168Y seat A320 and the 226Y seat 757 ... but there is also a J/Y version of the 757 seating 20J and 190Y. J was marketed as "Club 3000.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
MIflyer12
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Re: will Air Transat ever go back to HNL ?

Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:37 pm

Jean Leloup wrote:

From Western Canada, WS and AC/Rouge have Hawai'i well-covered... though I can't tell you how much I'd love to see AS or HA in YYC!


AS is happy to fly you YYC-HNL/OGG/KOA/LIH - you'll just need to connect in SEA. That is a primary role of hubs - aggregating traffic to make more destinations possible.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: will Air Transat ever go back to HNL ?

Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:44 pm

longhauler wrote:
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
And C3 was all-Y. Their 332s were configured with 8 seats per abreast: http://airlinespastpresent.blogspot.ch/ ... 20Airlines

I am not sure of the date of that brochure.


Neither am I. I believe, back in 1998, Airways did a report about C3, at the time they received the A332s, I thought it might date from that time.

Anyway, I'm surprised we don't find more pictures of TS at Hawaii.
 
USAOZ
Topic Author
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

Re: will Air Transat ever go back to HNL ?

Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:35 pm

Jamie514 wrote:
Have confirmed by an old Anet thread from late 90’s that one B757 was reconfigured to 38J/167Y specifically for the SYD run. Thankfully the old forum archives remain for us!

I can recall seeing marketing for the Oz flights in the inflight magazine when I flew them in 97-99, but can’t say I remember mention of J class availability but it seems to have briefly existed.

viewtopic.php?t=11567

I am fairly sure none of their 4 A332 operated in anything but pure Y (but roomy old school 2-4-2 with decent pitch), but who knows!
flew the 2T A332's numerous times, it was so cheap cf. every other airline at the time, for Australians to go to Canada !!!

Around middle of 2001, Canada 3000 Sydney staff told me, that the A332's were going to have a seating change to 2 class to something like to Air Transats seating config on it's A330's with 2-4-2 seating in Y, but with club class up front.& then came SEP11 !!!!

The view when walked in front door of their A332's was interesting. You could see the very back row from the front row, Most of the toilets were designed in such a way, that they wrapped around the exit doors & therefore took up very little space, ie. virtually no loss of seats due to toilet footprint.

Surprising that the likes of Air Transat didn't try the old 2T routes to Australia/NZ after the dust settled after SEP11.
 
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longhauler
Posts: 6488
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

Re: will Air Transat ever go back to HNL ?

Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:47 pm

Jamie514 wrote:
Have confirmed by an old Anet thread from late 90’s that one B757 was reconfigured to 38J/167Y specifically for the SYD run. Thankfully the old forum archives remain for us!

Yes, that is the seat chart I have .... but ... beneath it, it says 20J/190Y. So, it sounds like they tried a few cabin configurations.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!

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