thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Air Canada receives first 737 MAX

Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:36 pm

tjh8402 wrote:
The bitterness of some Bombardier fans is amazing. Air Canada had nothing to do with the Bombardier-Boeing dispute. Indeed, they are buying planes from both companies. The CSeries would probably have been in big trouble without them. The Boeing order was signed years ago before the trade dispute ever arose. Now apparently AC are supposed to either lose massive amounts of $ backing out of the Boeing contract and having to buy Airbuses at top dollar instead, or pay a massive tariff on the 737s. So desperate is the desire to spite Boeing and anyone who has ever chosen to buy from them and so strong is the nationalistic pride in a failed company that another Canadian Company that actually appears to be well-run and successful has to suffer if that's what it takes.
 
thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Air Canada receives first 737 MAX

Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:04 pm

tjh8402 wrote:
The bitterness of some Bombardier fans is amazing. Air Canada had nothing to do with the Bombardier-Boeing dispute. Indeed, they are buying planes from both companies. The CSeries would probably have been in big trouble without them. The Boeing order was signed years ago before the trade dispute ever arose. Now apparently AC are supposed to either lose massive amounts of $ backing out of the Boeing contract and having to buy Airbuses at top dollar instead, or pay a massive tariff on the 737s. So desperate is the desire to spite Boeing and anyone who has ever chosen to buy from them and so strong is the nationalistic pride in a failed company that another Canadian Company that actually appears to be well-run and successful has to suffer if that's what it takes.

It's not bombardier fans that are negative to the max, it's Canadians! And most are not as angry with Boeing as they are with the US. many Canadians feel insulted and angry with the manner in which the US views and conducts trade and it its neighbours. We as Canadians have the resources and technical ability to to make great products but our neighbour and largest trading partner seems to think they have the right to decide what Canada can and can not do or produce. If the US wants to start throwing tariffs using 100% bias Canada should respond in kind. Unfortunately Canadians are not as moral bankrupt as our neighbours and that may well be our flaw. I at one time was a fan of Boeing, unfortunately Boeing decided to use lawyers instead of innovation to keep ahead in the market.
 
thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Air Canada receives first 737 MAX

Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:30 pm

The last post I wrote was written in haste. To all those that are not Canadian and have issue with boeings or Canada's neighbours action I am sorry. This issue is international not just Canadian. Not all Americans are moral bankrupt, but the ones calling the shots are. Hopefully there can be a fix for this.
 
tjh8402
Posts: 957
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:20 am

Re: Air Canada receives first 737 MAX

Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:43 am

thumper76 wrote:
tjh8402 wrote:
The bitterness of some Bombardier fans is amazing. Air Canada had nothing to do with the Bombardier-Boeing dispute. Indeed, they are buying planes from both companies. The CSeries would probably have been in big trouble without them. The Boeing order was signed years ago before the trade dispute ever arose. Now apparently AC are supposed to either lose massive amounts of $ backing out of the Boeing contract and having to buy Airbuses at top dollar instead, or pay a massive tariff on the 737s. So desperate is the desire to spite Boeing and anyone who has ever chosen to buy from them and so strong is the nationalistic pride in a failed company that another Canadian Company that actually appears to be well-run and successful has to suffer if that's what it takes.

It's not bombardier fans that are negative to the max, it's Canadians! And most are not as angry with Boeing as they are with the US. many Canadians feel insulted and angry with the manner in which the US views and conducts trade and it its neighbours. We as Canadians have the resources and technical ability to to make great products but our neighbour and largest trading partner seems to think they have the right to decide what Canad.a can and can not do or produce. If the US wants to start throwing tariffs using 100% bias Canada should respond in kind. Unfortunately Canadians are not as moral bankrupt as our neighbours and that may well be our flaw. I at one time was a fan of Boeing, unfortunately Boeing decided to use lawyers instead of innovation to keep ahead in the market.


I understand being mad at Boeing. Even if I don't completely agree with that anger, I do understand it. What I don't get is why Canadian Companies like Air Canada (or West Jet for that matter) have to suffer for Boeing perceived slights, especially when they (as far as I know) have been well run profitable businesses that have done well for Canadians across the country, while Bombardier has been a business failure and generally benefited Quebec when it hasn't been sucking the treasury dry while still failing to deliver winning products.

I think it's hard to process because Americans aren't generally fans of failed businesses. I loved McD military products. The F-15 is bae but it's obvious the civilian division and corporate managers were buffoons. Sad that they brought down the whole company and ended such a proud legacy but it had to happen. The auto and bank bailouts were deeply unpopular, even though they saved American corporate institutions. I'm remain uneasy about buying GM products to this day and still call them "Government Motors" whenever I'm inclined to criticize them. I feel no national pride in them. They and Chrysler were embarrassments; horribly run business failures that should have been allowed to die. Tesla is on its way to being the next but that's another story.

I should also add for the record that personally this sense of business failure are national disgraces extends to the unfortunate occupant of the White House. Most of my thoughts on that subject are not printable on a family friendly website. Keep in mind that maybe 30% of eligible voters here actually voted for Cheetoh Jesus, and I know plenty of them who have been very conflicted since. .
 
thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Air Canada receives first 737 MAX

Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:11 am

tjh8402 wrote:
thumper76 wrote:
tjh8402 wrote:
The bitterness of some Bombardier fans is amazing. Air Canada had nothing to do with the Bombardier-Boeing dispute. Indeed, they are buying planes from both companies. The CSeries would probably have been in big trouble without them. The Boeing order was signed years ago before the trade dispute ever arose. Now apparently AC are supposed to either lose massive amounts of $ backing out of the Boeing contract and having to buy Airbuses at top dollar instead, or pay a massive tariff on the 737s. So desperate is the desire to spite Boeing and anyone who has ever chosen to buy from them and so strong is the nationalistic pride in a failed company that another Canadian Company that actually appears to be well-run and successful has to suffer if that's what it takes.

It's not bombardier fans that are negative to the max, it's Canadians! And most are not as angry with Boeing as they are with the US. many Canadians feel insulted and angry with the manner in which the US views and conducts trade and it its neighbours. We as Canadians have the resources and technical ability to to make great products but our neighbour and largest trading partner seems to think they have the right to decide what Canad.a can and can not do or produce. If the US wants to start throwing tariffs using 100% bias Canada should respond in kind. Unfortunately Canadians are not as moral bankrupt as our neighbours and that may well be our flaw. I at one time was a fan of Boeing, unfortunately Boeing decided to use lawyers instead of innovation to keep ahead in the market.


I understand being mad at Boeing. Even if I don't completely agree with that anger, I do understand it. What I don't get is why Canadian Companies like Air Canada (or West Jet for that matter) have to suffer for Boeing perceived slights, especially when they (as far as I know) have been well run profitable businesses that have done well for Canadians across the country, while Bombardier has been a business failure and generally benefited Quebec when it hasn't been sucking the treasury dry while still failing to deliver winning products.

I think it's hard to process because Americans aren't generally fans of failed businesses. I loved McD military products. The F-15 is bae but it's obvious the civilian division and corporate managers were buffoons. Sad that they brought down the whole company and ended such a proud legacy but it had to happen. The auto and bank bailouts were deeply unpopular, even though they saved American corporate institutions. I'm remain uneasy about buying GM products to this day and still call them "Government Motors" whenever I'm inclined to criticize them. I feel no national pride in them. They and Chrysler were embarrassments; horribly run business failures that should have been allowed to die. Tesla is on its way to being the next but that's another story.

I agree Air Canada and Westjet should not have to suffer, But it is not Canada, Airbus, bbd or the cseries that caused this. It was the US in another attempt to remain dominant. How long should this be allowed to continue? Do you know what is going on with NAFTA? The US administration is basically demanding that trade safe guards are removed, with full disregard of Canada's or Mexico's thoughts. The US administration is dictating give or NAFTA is dead! I live next to what seems to be a very unstable, self confident, country that seems to be trying to isolate themselves from the rest of the world. I worry for my children! Things must change.
Last edited by thumper76 on Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
tjh8402
Posts: 957
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:20 am

Re: Air Canada receives first 737 MAX

Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:23 am

thumper76 wrote:
tjh8402 wrote:
thumper76 wrote:
It's not bombardier fans that are negative to the max, it's Canadians! And most are not as angry with Boeing as they are with the US. many Canadians feel insulted and angry with the manner in which the US views and conducts trade and it its neighbours. We as Canadians have the resources and technical ability to to make great products but our neighbour and largest trading partner seems to think they have the right to decide what Canad.a can and can not do or produce. If the US wants to start throwing tariffs using 100% bias Canada should respond in kind. Unfortunately Canadians are not as moral bankrupt as our neighbours and that may well be our flaw. I at one time was a fan of Boeing, unfortunately Boeing decided to use lawyers instead of innovation to keep ahead in the market.


I understand being mad at Boeing. Even if I don't completely agree with that anger, I do understand it. What I don't get is why Canadian Companies like Air Canada (or West Jet for that matter) have to suffer for Boeing perceived slights, especially when they (as far as I know) have been well run profitable businesses that have done well for Canadians across the country, while Bombardier has been a business failure and generally benefited Quebec when it hasn't been sucking the treasury dry while still failing to deliver winning products.

I think it's hard to process because Americans aren't generally fans of failed businesses. I loved McD military products. The F-15 is bae but it's obvious the civilian division and corporate managers were buffoons. Sad that they brought down the whole company and ended such a proud legacy but it had to happen. The auto and bank bailouts were deeply unpopular, even though they saved American corporate institutions. I'm remain uneasy about buying GM products to this day and still call them "Government Motors" whenever I'm inclined to criticize them. I feel no national pride in them. They and Chrysler were embarrassments; horribly run business failures that should have been allowed to die. Tesla is on its way to being the next but that's another story.

I agree Air Canada and Westjet should not have to suffer, But it is not Canada, Airbus, bbd or the cseries that caused this. It was the US in another attempt to remain dominant. How long should this be allowed to continue? Do you know what is going on with NAFTA? The US administration is basically demanding that trade safe guards are removed, with full disregard of Canada's or Mexico's thoughts. The US administration is dictating give or NAFTA is dead! I live next to what seems to be a very unstable, self confident, country that seems to be trying to isolate themselves from the rest of the world. I worry for my children! Things must change.


You say AC and WS shouldn't have to suffer but that's what happens if they have to either cancel all their Boeing orders or pay massive tariffs which is what posters here are basically calling for. I know Trump wants to go after NAFTA. I completely disagree with that. I support NAFTA and I supported the TPP. I oppose the ex-im bank in principle but am conflicted in practice because getting rid of that is essentially giving sales to Airbus and it's not a $ loser. That being said, I also think Bombardier should've been allowed to fail. The Canadian and Quebec governments should not have been bailing them out. Criticize Boeing for their government contracts (although it's been a long time since they had a seriously lucrative aviation one), but at least they delivered products that gave taxpayers their $ worth. Even GM and Chrysler paid back their bailouts. BBD has just burned cash.
 
thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Air Canada receives first 737 MAX

Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:33 am

If you think BBD should have been allowed to fail, then you are also saying Boeing should not exist to start with. Boeing as a company was born from government money. The question is how can Boeing possibly have enough influence to dictate DOC decisions? My thoughts are that Boeing didn't, the decision came from the US administration, if Boeing is calling the shots here I am afraid the constitution has been disregarded. Things must change before things get out of hand. Only American citizens can change what is currently happening, and I hope the people are heard.
The cseries would have been profitable if it was allowed into the market without interference. Let's not pretend that interference did not happen!
 
thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Air Canada receives first 737 MAX

Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:45 am

tjh8402 wrote:
thumper76 wrote:
tjh8402 wrote:

I understand being mad at Boeing. Even if I don't completely agree with that anger, I do understand it. What I don't get is why Canadian Companies like Air Canada (or West Jet for that matter) have to suffer for Boeing perceived slights, especially when they (as far as I know) have been well run profitable businesses that have done well for Canadians across the country, while Bombardier has been a business failure and generally benefited Quebec when it hasn't been sucking the treasury dry while still failing to deliver winning products.

I think it's hard to process because Americans aren't generally fans of failed businesses. I loved McD military products. The F-15 is bae but it's obvious the civilian division and corporate managers were buffoons. Sad that they brought down the whole company and ended such a proud legacy but it had to happen. The auto and bank bailouts were deeply unpopular, even though they saved American corporate institutions. I'm remain uneasy about buying GM products to this day and still call them "Government Motors" whenever I'm inclined to criticize them. I feel no national pride in them. They and Chrysler were embarrassments; horribly run business failures that should have been allowed to die. Tesla is on its way to being the next but that's another story.

I agree Air Canada and Westjet should not have to suffer, But it is not Canada, Airbus, bbd or the cseries that caused this. It was the US in another attempt to remain dominant. How long should this be allowed to continue? Do you know what is going on with NAFTA? The US administration is basically demanding that trade safe guards are removed, with full disregard of Canada's or Mexico's thoughts. The US administration is dictating give or NAFTA is dead! I live next to what seems to be a very unstable, self confident, country that seems to be trying to isolate themselves from the rest of the world. I worry for my children! Things must change.


You say AC and WS shouldn't have to suffer but that's what happens if they have to either cancel all their Boeing orders or pay massive tariffs which is what posters here are basically calling for. I know Trump wants to go after NAFTA. I completely disagree with that. I support NAFTA and I supported the TPP. I oppose the ex-im bank in principle but am conflicted in practice because getting rid of that is essentially giving sales to Airbus and it's not a $ loser. That being said, I also think Bombardier should've been allowed to fail. The Canadian and Quebec governments should not have been bailing them out. Criticize Boeing for their government contracts (although it's been a long time since they had a seriously lucrative aviation one), but at least they delivered products that gave taxpayers their $ worth. Even GM and Chrysler paid back their bailouts. BBD has just burned cash.

Question, do you think tariffs are warranted on the cseries?
 
ac7e7
Posts: 751
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:27 am

Re: Air Canada receives first 737 MAX

Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:52 am

thumper76 wrote:
tjh8402 wrote:
The bitterness of some Bombardier fans is amazing. Air Canada had nothing to do with the Bombardier-Boeing dispute. Indeed, they are buying planes from both companies. The CSeries would probably have been in big trouble without them. The Boeing order was signed years ago before the trade dispute ever arose. Now apparently AC are supposed to either lose massive amounts of $ backing out of the Boeing contract and having to buy Airbuses at top dollar instead, or pay a massive tariff on the 737s. So desperate is the desire to spite Boeing and anyone who has ever chosen to buy from them and so strong is the nationalistic pride in a failed company that another Canadian Company that actually appears to be well-run and successful has to suffer if that's what it takes.

It's not bombardier fans that are negative to the max, it's Canadians! And most are not as angry with Boeing as they are with the US. many Canadians feel insulted and angry with the manner in which the US views and conducts trade and it its neighbours. We as Canadians have the resources and technical ability to to make great products but our neighbour and largest trading partner seems to think they have the right to decide what Canada can and can not do or produce. If the US wants to start throwing tariffs using 100% bias Canada should respond in kind. Unfortunately Canadians are not as moral bankrupt as our neighbours and that may well be our flaw. I at one time was a fan of Boeing, unfortunately Boeing decided to use lawyers instead of innovation to keep ahead in the market.


This is a typical Canadian attitude. As much as we may feel slighted, at the end of the day, Bombardier and Boeing are competitors. Boeing, like Bombardier should use every means available to them to gain an advantage.

In fact, I remember a certain Westjet CEO who was quoted as saying they would use every means available to them, including the competition bureau to gain an advantage over Air Canada.

Bombardier knew what they were getting into when they proceeded with the CSeries. Good plane or not, the competition will use whatever means available to them to tame or defeat a competitor.

Canadians need to get their big boy pants on and stop complaining when they get a bloody nose.
 
thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Air Canada receives first 737 MAX

Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:00 am

ac7e7 wrote:
thumper76 wrote:
tjh8402 wrote:
The bitterness of some Bombardier fans is amazing. Air Canada had nothing to do with the Bombardier-Boeing dispute. Indeed, they are buying planes from both companies. The CSeries would probably have been in big trouble without them. The Boeing order was signed years ago before the trade dispute ever arose. Now apparently AC are supposed to either lose massive amounts of $ backing out of the Boeing contract and having to buy Airbuses at top dollar instead, or pay a massive tariff on the 737s. So desperate is the desire to spite Boeing and anyone who has ever chosen to buy from them and so strong is the nationalistic pride in a failed company that another Canadian Company that actually appears to be well-run and successful has to suffer if that's what it takes.

It's not bombardier fans that are negative to the max, it's Canadians! And most are not as angry with Boeing as they are with the US. many Canadians feel insulted and angry with the manner in which the US views and conducts trade and it its neighbours. We as Canadians have the resources and technical ability to to make great products but our neighbour and largest trading partner seems to think they have the right to decide what Canada can and can not do or produce. If the US wants to start throwing tariffs using 100% bias Canada should respond in kind. Unfortunately Canadians are not as moral bankrupt as our neighbours and that may well be our flaw. I at one time was a fan of Boeing, unfortunately Boeing decided to use lawyers instead of innovation to keep ahead in the market.


This is a typical Canadian attitude. As much as we may feel slighted, at the end of the day, Bombardier and Boeing are competitors. Boeing, like Bombardier should use every means available to them to gain an advantage.

In fact, I remember a certain Westjet CEO who was quoted as saying they would use every means available to them, including the competition bureau to gain an advantage over Air Canada.

Bombardier knew what they were getting into when they proceeded with the CSeries. Good plane or not, the competition will use whatever means available to them to tame or defeat a competitor.

Canadians need to get their big boy pants on and stop complaining when they get a bloody nose.

Every means available? Well at this point the cseries will make it to the WTO, witch is good news for all.. Accept Boeing that is. Obviously Boeing could not allow BBD to be around long enough to allow that. Pick on the weak, end off with bloody nose bit? Maybe someone should stop punching people in the nose! Please note, it might not be wise to bring bodily harm up, sounds bad!
 
ac7e7
Posts: 751
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:27 am

Re: Air Canada receives first 737 MAX

Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:15 am

At this point, it doesnt matter anymore. Bombardier Aerospace is done except for business jets. Bombardier have been out of Ski-Doos for years, and their train division missed the boat on recent consolidation in the sector. They should have sold it years ago.

Just because a company is Canadian doesn't mean we should support it unconditionally.

Same applies to my Montreal Canadiens... if they can't play competitve hockey, I won't support them by attending a game. We want a winner. Bombardier may have made a great plane, but if there is no market for it, or they could not market it successfully to potential customers, they made a terrible mistake.
 
777PHX
Posts: 962
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:36 am

Re: Air Canada receives first 737 MAX

Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:17 am

No one is forcing you to buy Boeings. You can go take it through the nose and buy Airbi if you want.
 
thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Air Canada receives first 737 MAX

Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:42 am

ac7e7 wrote:
At this point, it doesnt matter anymore. Bombardier Aerospace is done except for business jets. Bombardier have been out of Ski-Doos for years, and their train division missed the boat on recent consolidation in the sector. They should have sold it years ago.

Just because a company is Canadian doesn't mean we should support it unconditionally.

Same applies to my Montreal Canadiens... if they can't play competitve hockey, I won't support them by attending a game. We want a winner. Bombardier may have made a great plane, but if there is no market for it, or they could not market it successfully to potential customers, they made a terrible mistake.

I'm not a Habs fan I'm from Ontario, that being said there were some good rivalries between the leafs and the Habs years back... That was good times :smile:
Bombardier did have a great plane! The only reason why it failed to make a solid foothold in the market was because Boeing and Airbus used their financial might to kill sales. Both Airbus and Boeing are highly subsidied, Boeing may even be the most subsidied company in the world. At least Airbus had the brains to take stock of the aircraft in the end. I can only imagine what is going at Boeing right now realizing they just helped to drop BBD value so their biggest (only) competitor could gain majority share of the cseries
I believe we should support Canadian products, but like you not unconditionally. The Canadian government (federal, provincial, municipal) did not come close to unconditional with the cseries. Do I think BBD had issues? Let me answer YES! All airline manufacturers are subsidized. If you believe that Canada should never support a aircraft manufacturer just say so.
Cheers
 
tjh8402
Posts: 957
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:20 am

Re: Air Canada receives first 737 MAX

Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:04 am

thumper76 wrote:
ac7e7 wrote:
At this point, it doesnt matter anymore. Bombardier Aerospace is done except for business jets. Bombardier have been out of Ski-Doos for years, and their train division missed the boat on recent consolidation in the sector. They should have sold it years ago.

Just because a company is Canadian doesn't mean we should support it unconditionally.

Same applies to my Montreal Canadiens... if they can't play competitve hockey, I won't support them by attending a game. We want a winner. Bombardier may have made a great plane, but if there is no market for it, or they could not market it successfully to potential customers, they made a terrible mistake.

I'm not a Habs fan I'm from Ontario, that being said there were some good rivalries between the leafs and the Habs years back... That was good times :smile:
Bombardier did have a great plane! The only reason why it failed to make a solid foothold in the market was because Boeing and Airbus used their financial might to kill sales. Both Airbus and Boeing are highly subsidied, Boeing may even be the most subsidied company in the world. At least Airbus had the brains to take stock of the aircraft in the end. I can only imagine what is going at Boeing right now realizing they just helped to drop BBD value so their biggest (only) competitor could gain majority share of the cseries
I believe we should support Canadian products, but like you not unconditionally. The Canadian government (federal, provincial, municipal) did not come close to unconditional with the cseries. Do I think BBD had issues? Let me answer YES! All airline manufacturers are subsidized. If you believe that Canada should never support a aircraft manufacturer just say so.
Cheers


How could/why would "Airbus and Boeing use their financial might to kill sales" of a plane that we just finished being told by BBD defenders doesn't really compete against the 737 (or A320 by extension ) and therefore poses no threat?

As far as all companies getting subsidies, I'd agree on Airbus, but Boeing isn't quite the same. They get tax credits, but that doesn't make or break the success of the programs. They do tend to turn profits on their programs in the long run and use their own cash to sustain themselves till then. As far as military sales go, Boeing has basically had one large successful program since the 1960s and that's the Ch-47, a brilliant design that deserves its sales success and profits it brings Boeing. Otherwise, they've generally been a second tier player to Lockmart, Northrop Grumman, and McD. It should be noted that even though they were bigger military contractors, none could sustain their civilian lines on the military sales. The market still prevailed, despite government $. There are plenty of Bombardier opportunities for military sales if they wanted to pursue that market. They've even sold planes to the US DoD (Learjet and Globals). Ironically, one of their supporters in the defense contract world was Boeing, who designed a little brother to the P8 based on the Challenger biz jet.
 
ac7e7
Posts: 751
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:27 am

Re: Air Canada receives first 737 MAX

Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:44 am

thumper76 wrote:
ac7e7 wrote:
At this point, it doesnt matter anymore. Bombardier Aerospace is done except for business jets. Bombardier have been out of Ski-Doos for years, and their train division missed the boat on recent consolidation in the sector. They should have sold it years ago.

Just because a company is Canadian doesn't mean we should support it unconditionally.

Same applies to my Montreal Canadiens... if they can't play competitve hockey, I won't support them by attending a game. We want a winner. Bombardier may have made a great plane, but if there is no market for it, or they could not market it successfully to potential customers, they made a terrible mistake.

I'm not a Habs fan I'm from Ontario, that being said there were some good rivalries between the leafs and the Habs years back... That was good times :smile:
Bombardier did have a great plane! The only reason why it failed to make a solid foothold in the market was because Boeing and Airbus used their financial might to kill sales. Both Airbus and Boeing are highly subsidied, Boeing may even be the most subsidied company in the world. At least Airbus had the brains to take stock of the aircraft in the end. I can only imagine what is going at Boeing right now realizing they just helped to drop BBD value so their biggest (only) competitor could gain majority share of the cseries
I believe we should support Canadian products, but like you not unconditionally. The Canadian government (federal, provincial, municipal) did not come close to unconditional with the cseries. Do I think BBD had issues? Let me answer YES! All airline manufacturers are subsidized. If you believe that Canada should never support a aircraft manufacturer just say so.
Cheers


We see this in other sectors all the time. Labatt and Molson in Canada have pushed around the micro-breweries for years by buying up all the best shelf space in stores. Big box stores causing smaller family-run businesses to go under.

I will support any product that benefits me, whether it be Canadian, American, or any other country of origin. Blaming the US, their President, or Boeing is meaningless. Bombardier has been in this sector for many years, and they know the game. If they could not foresee a potential challenge, trade or otherwise from Airbus or Boeing, they should be held accountable. The problem is the company is run by a family, and the general belief in Quebec is they are a “protected” company and we will never let them fail. We saw this years ago when Loblaws acquired Provigo - “We can’t lose control of our food supply!” cried Lucien Bouchard. Give me a break.
 
Bjrob04
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:50 pm

Re: Air Canada receives first 737 MAX

Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:00 am

TR wrote:
This livery just does not work on the 737. It will never be favorite livery to me but I think it looks OK on the Dreamliners and the A330/A320s but this one..... nah..


I was thinking the same thing.
Whoops. . . :?
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Air Canada receives first 737 MAX

Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:38 am

Topic has gone way off topic and will be locked.
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