thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:03 am

Bostrom wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
The C-Series would be perfect for operations in Norway, but I don't think they'd do that without phasing out all the 737s. But that might happen either way.


How many 737s are based in Norway, and how many of them are 737-800s? The C-series family is just too small to replace the 737-800, and I just can't see them going for a mixed fleet of CS100, CS300 and 737-800, on top of all the A320 variants based in Denmark and Sweden. Could they be the launch customer for the CS500?


There has been rumours about SAS looking at the Cseries, but I'm not sure if there is any truth behind the rumours. But even if it is, 31+30 would be a big order for SAS. They have 58 737s at the moment (not counting the 737-600 that are being retired), and will as you mention need something bigger to replace the 737-800.

With the 320NEO's coming in 2019, it could work for future fleet renewal and growth to add the cseries. The 320NEO's takes the future 737-800 routes and the cseries takes over the old 737-600/700. It all depends on whether they can make the timing work on the cseries deliveries.
 
User avatar
Markie73
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 3:29 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:12 am

hitchy81 wrote:
Easyjet - to replace the A319s they are selling to United


Ryanair?, I remember MOL saying that the airline was interested in the C Series - it's an outside bet but possible, maybe joining the LCC race over the pond to the U.S?

The again they have got a MAX order which could probably do the job as well.
 
thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:17 am

Markie73 wrote:
hitchy81 wrote:
Easyjet - to replace the A319s they are selling to United


Ryanair?, I remember MOL saying that the airline was interested in the C Series - it's an outside bet but possible, maybe joining the LCC race over the pond to the U.S?

If Ryanair was to order I would expect the order to be larger. That being said they are a future possibility.
 
bunumuring
Posts: 2531
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:56 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:32 am

Could it be Meridiana? Obviously with Qatar's backing - and don't forget Qatar's own interest over the years in the CSeries. Italian domestic and regional routes, plus funnelling in customers for Qatar's long haul network? I know that everything QR has and has on order has been mentioned at one time or another for transfer to Meridiana, but is this possible, a Meridiana CSeries order of 31 aircraft?
Or even Aeroflot? I doubt it very much, but who knows?
Cheers,
Bunumuring.
I just wanna live while I'm alive!
 
thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:33 am

I wonder who will be taking Delta's fal slots considering the tariff issue. We could see a fairly quick order to deliver turn if those slots were used
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1433
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:35 am

FrancisBegbie wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Could be LH, but as Karel pointed out in the press release, not an existing customer. While Swiss is really the existing customer, I don't think they'd include that language if it was LH.

I also suspect AF, especially given their A318/19 fleet and the DL ownership stake.


When you think about 100/110 seater-CASM, is there anybody in Europe worse off than AF A318?

The A318s at TAROM since their config is C14 Y99 :duck: (Though I'm not sure if their A318 has a proper C class or just Y class seat with blocked middle seats)

Michael
 
thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:50 am

What airline might have the funds available to accept full delivery of 31 aircraft within 2 years to cover the Delta fal slots in Mirabel?
 
Nean1
Posts: 322
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 11:08 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:57 am

A330freak wrote:
During its 3rd Quarter Results, Bombardier has announced it has signed a LoI for 31 C Series +30 options from an undisclosed European Customer.

Subsequent to the end of the third quarter, we signed a Letter of Intent with a European customer for up to 61 C Series aircraft, including a firm order for 31 aircraft with options for an additional 30 aircraft. Based on list price of the aircraft, the firm order would be valued at approximately $2.4 billion. The LOI is subject to the execution of a purchase agreement, which is expected before year end;

http://www.bombardier.com/en/media/news ... ercom.html


This LoI announcement less than 2 weeks from the Dubai Airshow sounds funny. It looks like a smoke screen covering bad "REAL" results.
 
User avatar
JetBuddy
Posts: 2272
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:04 am

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:15 am

Bostrom wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
The C-Series would be perfect for operations in Norway, but I don't think they'd do that without phasing out all the 737s. But that might happen either way.


How many 737s are based in Norway, and how many of them are 737-800s? The C-series family is just too small to replace the 737-800, and I just can't see them going for a mixed fleet of CS100, CS300 and 737-800, on top of all the A320 variants based in Denmark and Sweden. Could they be the launch customer for the CS500?


There has been rumours about SAS looking at the Cseries, but I'm not sure if there is any truth behind the rumours. But even if it is, 31+30 would be a big order for SAS. They have 58 737s at the moment (not counting the 737-600 that are being retired), and will as you mention need something bigger to replace the 737-800.


The A320neo and A321neo could replace the 737-800s, but I'm very doubtful the new customer is SAS. It would be fun though.
 
ytz
Posts: 3529
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:31 am

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:28 am

Who needs up to 60 airframes in the 100-150 seats category? I can only see IAG or AF-KL in Europe as candidates. LH already has theirs. And the LCCs don't take risks with new models of airplanes. Though the CS300 would be fantastic for Easyjet....
 
User avatar
767333ER
Posts: 1036
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:14 am

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:58 am

Nean1 wrote:
A330freak wrote:
During its 3rd Quarter Results, Bombardier has announced it has signed a LoI for 31 C Series +30 options from an undisclosed European Customer.

Subsequent to the end of the third quarter, we signed a Letter of Intent with a European customer for up to 61 C Series aircraft, including a firm order for 31 aircraft with options for an additional 30 aircraft. Based on list price of the aircraft, the firm order would be valued at approximately $2.4 billion. The LOI is subject to the execution of a purchase agreement, which is expected before year end;

http://www.bombardier.com/en/media/news ... ercom.html


This LoI announcement less than 2 weeks from the Dubai Airshow sounds funny. It looks like a smoke screen covering bad "REAL" results.

LoI’s are quite real. The CSeries was launched by an LoI from LH Group and Air Canada’s order was initially an LoI. Convenient timing, I’ll give you that.
Been on: 732 733 734 73G 738 752 763 A319 A320 A321 CRJ CR7 CRA/CR9 E145 E175 E190 F28 MD-82 MD-83 C172R C172S P2006T
 
StudiodeKadent
Posts: 414
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:43 am

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:34 am

ytz wrote:
Who needs up to 60 airframes in the 100-150 seats category? I can only see IAG or AF-KL in Europe as candidates. LH already has theirs. And the LCCs don't take risks with new models of airplanes. Though the CS300 would be fantastic for Easyjet....


AF seems the most obvious given that they have 18 A318s and 38 A319s. KLM also has 18 737-700s, which the CS300 could be a fantastic replacement for.

IAG is also possible given that BA has 44 A319s, and Iberia has 16, and Aer Lingus has nothing smaller than an A320. However, IAG also need capacity ex. LHR, and this order is for both models. I don't see BA interested in CS100s.
 
Egerton
Posts: 864
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:50 am

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:03 pm

There is discussion elsewhere on A319NEO and separately the densification by airlines of single isle aeroplanes. Adding this to the sales of A319s into the second user market, it seems that in quick time many European airlines will have a mainline fleet going down to 180 seat aeroplanes, with nothing below.

This is the gap in the market correctly identified for the C Series. For the nation which produced the Avro Arrow, this should not be a surprise. Luck and the USA were against them with that brilliant effort, but this time round the C Series has escaped a similar fate.

So what market is the C Series aimed at today? It is the below180 seat markets seemingly being vacated by many airlines. Is this the regional market in the context of geographical European domestic regions? Such as the UK’s domestic Northern Powerhouse , Midlands Engine, the Southwest, Wales and the Scottish Highlands? I feel sure that there are many equivalent domestic regions elsewhere in geographical Europe which would benefit from links to geographic European hub and non-hub airports.

The latest Gov UK stuff on new runway capacity (i.e. Heathrow v Gatwick) says that at least 14 domestic routes could be served from an expanded Heathrow, compared to the eight routes currently in operation. The 8 domestic routes operating today are Aberdeen, Belfast City, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Inverness, Leeds Bradford, Manchester and Newcastle. The at least additional 6 are Belfast International, Durham Tees Valley, Humberside, Liverpool, Newquay, and Prestwick.

On the other hand, UK is starting to see the arrival of huge new fleets of modern railway trains to run on existing and new tracks. These are expected to increase the market share of long distance rail. In the case of the East Coast Main Line (London to Edinburgh, with the many stops between) from say 20% to nearer 50%. The Channel Tunnel is the exemplar.

In terms of UK domestic airlines, frequency with 180 seaters will therefore tend to fall, but the lowest sensible frequency needs to be 2 or perhaps 3 per day. This UK regional market needs the C Series. So does geographic Europe’s regions, where trans-national rail is an existing competitor.

So why not a new pan-European airline without any historic baggage of poor labour practices and old fashioned outlook to fill this growing void across Europe? This airline might be called ‘Regio’. It would initially need a substantial fleet of C Series, which would be set to lead a busy and long life. Who is best fitted to initiate Regio? Answers on a post card please.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 3246
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:09 pm

thumper76 wrote:
Bostrom wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

How many 737s are based in Norway, and how many of them are 737-800s? The C-series family is just too small to replace the 737-800, and I just can't see them going for a mixed fleet of CS100, CS300 and 737-800, on top of all the A320 variants based in Denmark and Sweden. Could they be the launch customer for the CS500?


There has been rumours about SAS looking at the Cseries, but I'm not sure if there is any truth behind the rumours. But even if it is, 31+30 would be a big order for SAS. They have 58 737s at the moment (not counting the 737-600 that are being retired), and will as you mention need something bigger to replace the 737-800.

With the 320NEO's coming in 2019, it could work for future fleet renewal and growth to add the cseries. The 320NEO's takes the future 737-800 routes and the cseries takes over the old 737-600/700. It all depends on whether they can make the timing work on the cseries deliveries.


Nah, the -600s are fast on the way out and will be gone before the C-series can be delivered. If they are getting the C-series, it will have to replace the 737-700 and -800.
 
thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:23 pm

VSMUT wrote:
thumper76 wrote:
Bostrom wrote:

There has been rumours about SAS looking at the Cseries, but I'm not sure if there is any truth behind the rumours. But even if it is, 31+30 would be a big order for SAS. They have 58 737s at the moment (not counting the 737-600 that are being retired), and will as you mention need something bigger to replace the 737-800.

With the 320NEO's coming in 2019, it could work for future fleet renewal and growth to add the cseries. The 320NEO's takes the future 737-800 routes and the cseries takes over the old 737-600/700. It all depends on whether they can make the timing work on the cseries deliveries.


Nah, the -600s are fast on the way out and will be gone before the C-series can be delivered. If they are getting the C-series, it will have to replace the 737-700 and -800.

The 600 is the question. With the Delta order likely being built in mobile, there are likely some slots to fill in the Mirabel fal possibility as soon as next year! I am sure that some of the existing customers will get their planes early, but many may not be budgeted for that.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 3246
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:40 pm

thumper76 wrote:
The 600 is the question. With the Delta order likely being built in mobile, there are likely some slots to fill in the Mirabel fal possibility as soon as next year! I am sure that some of the existing customers will get their planes early, but many may not be budgeted for that.


A significant share of the -600 production is being replaced with contractor operated metal though, and they can't tear up those contracts for the foreseeable future. If I should take a guess, they have maybe 6 737-600s that haven't been accounted for (ergo, will be replaced with A320NEOs). That doesn't really fit with 31+30 C-series.
 
User avatar
reidar76
Posts: 470
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:16 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:38 pm

VSMUT wrote:
A significant share of the -600 production is being replaced with contractor operated metal though, and they can't tear up those contracts for the foreseeable future. If I should take a guess, they have maybe 6 737-600s that haven't been accounted for (ergo, will be replaced with A320NEOs). That doesn't really fit with 31+30 C-series.


It was reported about a month ago that SAS was in contact with Airbus and Boeing regarding an order for about 40 to 50 narrowbody aircraft. Discussed in this tread: https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1373063

SAS today operates about 60 737 aircraft that are up for replacement within a decade. In SAS configuration: 737-600 (123 seats), 737-700 (141 seats) and 737-800 (181 seats). SAS has more A320neo (174 seats) and A321neo on order, but still needs about 40-50 (or 30 to 60) new narrowbody aircraft. In other words the numbers indicates this C-series order could come from SAS.

In SAS configuration the CS100 and CS300 would have 125 seats and 150 seats respectively. It is a very good match for SAS' operations in Norway, while Denmark and Sweden continue to operate A320 family aircraft. Older 737s have gradually been transferred from Denmark and Sweden to Norway as new A320 have been delivered.

SAS alliance partners, Lufthansa group, Air Baltic and Swiss already operates the C-series. SAS has also been selling LHR slots. Operating the CS100 into LCY could be a strategic business option.
Last edited by reidar76 on Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
MEA330
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 7:06 am

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:12 pm

IAG more probable than AFKLM
LOW COSTS also in the running.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 3246
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:12 pm

reidar76 wrote:
SAS today operates about 60 737 aircraft that are up for replacement within a decade. In SAS configuration: 737-600 (123 seats), 737-700 (141 seats) and 737-800 (181 seats). SAS has more A320neo (174 seats) and A321neo on order, but still needs about 40-50 (or 30 to 60) new narrowbody aircraft. In other words the numbers indicates this C-series order could come from SAS.

In SAS configuration the CS100 and CS300 would have 125 seats and 150 seats respectively. It is a very good match for SAS' operations in Norway, while Denmark and Sweden continue to operate A320 family aircraft. Older 737s have gradually been transferred from Denmark and Sweden to Norway as new A320 have been delivered.


They don't have any A321NEOs on order.

A 125 or 150 seat CS300 is a poor replacement for a 181 seat 737-800. They don't have 61 737-700s and -600s, so a big proportion of these would have to replace the -800s as well.
 
thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:18 pm

reidar76 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
A significant share of the -600 production is being replaced with contractor operated metal though, and they can't tear up those contracts for the foreseeable future. If I should take a guess, they have maybe 6 737-600s that haven't been accounted for (ergo, will be replaced with A320NEOs). That doesn't really fit with 31+30 C-series.


It was reported about a month ago that SAS was in contact with Airbus and Boeing regarding an order for about 40 to 50 narrowbody aircraft. Discussed in this tread: https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1373063

SAS today operates about 60 737 aircraft that are up for replacement within a decade. In SAS configuration: 737-600 (123 seats), 737-700 (141 seats) and 737-800 (181 seats). SAS has more A320neo (174 seats) and A321neo on order, but still needs about 40-50 (or 30 to 60) new narrowbody aircraft. In other words the numbers indicates this C-series order could come from SAS.

In SAS configuration the CS100 and CS300 would have 125 seats and 150 seats respectively. It is a very good match for SAS' operations in Norway, while Denmark and Sweden continue to operate A320 family aircraft. Older 737s have gradually been transferred from Denmark and Sweden to Norway as new A320 have been delivered.

SAS alliance partners, Lufthansa group, Air Baltic and Swiss already operates the C-series. SAS has also been selling LHR slots. Operating the CS100 into LCY could be a strategic business option.

That's putting some big metal in to replace a 600, they would likely be doing some a/c juggling :smile:
 
silvanus
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:48 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:46 pm

VSMUT wrote:
A 125 or 150 seat CS300 is a poor replacement for a 181 seat 737-800. They don't have 61 737-700s and -600s, so a big proportion of these would have to replace the -800s as well.


Before SAS starting receiving their A320neos, their 737 fleet was 26 737-600s (120 seats), 29 737-700s (141 seats), and 29 737-800s (181 seats). All are to be replaced in the next decade or so.

They are currently taking 30 A320neos (174 seats). Combining these with 60 CS100s and CS300s, with 125 to 150 seats, results in a very similar capacity breakdown as before, with CS100s roughly equivalent to 736s, CS300s to 737s, and A320neos to 738s. Although such a replacement would be "out of sync", because they are retiring the 736s first and the 738s last, I don't think it's unfeasible on capacity grounds.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12390
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:55 pm

Bostrom wrote:

There has been rumours about SAS looking at the Cseries, but I'm not sure if there is any truth behind the rumours. But even if it is, 31+30 would be a big order for SAS. They have 58 737s at the moment (not counting the 737-600 that are being retired), and will as you mention need something bigger to replace the 737-800.


Why would it be a big order, with the A320 NEO they ordered 30 with 11 options.
 
Bostrom
Posts: 845
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:51 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Bostrom wrote:

There has been rumours about SAS looking at the Cseries, but I'm not sure if there is any truth behind the rumours. But even if it is, 31+30 would be a big order for SAS. They have 58 737s at the moment (not counting the 737-600 that are being retired), and will as you mention need something bigger to replace the 737-800.


Why would it be a big order, with the A320 NEO they ordered 30 with 11 options.


The Neos were ordered to replace smaller 737s. Ordering Cseries to replace the remaining 737s would mean a big drop in capacity, unless SAS are to be launch customers of the CS500, so I doubt it. And 31+30 new aircraft not for replacing current aircraft is in my opinion a large order for SAS. Maybe they are looking at something smaller than a 737-700/A319 and larger than a CRJ, there have been rumours about that. But compared to their current fleet, 31 is a big order in that size range. That is why my guess is a larger airline, like Air France for A318 and A319 replacement.

But I could be wrong, and it will be interesting to see who the buyer is.
 
JulietteBravo
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:25 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:29 pm

The CS300 has 145 seats (swiss version with ˋeuro biz´). You operate with 2 pilots and only 3 CCM cheaply. The aircraft is economic, ecologic and has a nice look and feel haptic for pax and crew. For thinner routes and special airports (e.g. LCY or Florence) the 125 seats CS100. In range the CS is fexible from ultra short to like ZRH–DME or Jiddah/TLV/CAI...
Flexibility is what quite a segment of pax look for. Less destinations and more flights per day.

I can see AFKLM and a wide range from LCCs to traditional smaller hub airlines.
like SAS, the LHG members Brussels, Austrian, LX, LH Regional. Or the IAG members. A common group aircraft that can be flying for whatever brand of a group. And with deliveries only mid to longterm, the CS can be more of an in the future regional/mid range fleet strategy for many european carrier.

I can’t wait to know who this airline is ;)
 
User avatar
deltadawg
Posts: 1013
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 2:56 am

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:13 am

My money is on Brussels. While they only have 23 A319's they are perhaps looking for growth and the CSeries offers the range to expand some lean routes from BRU. Along with the retirement of the BAE's the CSeries is a good fit plus its already proven to fly into and out of LCY. Brussels is the one!
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
User avatar
Channex757
Posts: 2364
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:07 am

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:20 am

I'd put my bet on SN too. They have been leasing in capacity from other carriers like BE with the Q400 and Cityjet with the SSJ. A deal to cover their smaller aircraft needs plus roll over/right size other parts such as the A319 would seem viable.
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 8931
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:05 am

That would be LH group then.
 
Kikko19
Posts: 558
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:14 am

JulietteBravo wrote:
The CS300 has 145 seats (swiss version with ˋeuro biz´). You operate with 2 pilots and only 3 CCM cheaply. The aircraft is economic, ecologic and has a nice look and feel haptic for pax and crew. For thinner routes and special airports (e.g. LCY or Florence) the 125 seats CS100. In range the CS is fexible from ultra short to like ZRH–DME or Jiddah/TLV/CAI...
Flexibility is what quite a segment of pax look for. Less destinations and more flights per day.

I can see AFKLM and a wide range from LCCs to traditional smaller hub airlines.
like SAS, the LHG members Brussels, Austrian, LX, LH Regional. Or the IAG members. A common group aircraft that can be flying for whatever brand of a group. And with deliveries only mid to longterm, the CS can be more of an in the future regional/mid range fleet strategy for many european carrier.

I can’t wait to know who this airline is ;)


Agree. Anybody with this subfleet would escape the competition from low costs... Competing on a different basis. Of course LC could replicate as well but would they go to another subfleet as well?
 
thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:59 am

Kikko19 wrote:
JulietteBravo wrote:
The CS300 has 145 seats (swiss version with ˋeuro biz´). You operate with 2 pilots and only 3 CCM cheaply. The aircraft is economic, ecologic and has a nice look and feel haptic for pax and crew. For thinner routes and special airports (e.g. LCY or Florence) the 125 seats CS100. In range the CS is fexible from ultra short to like ZRH–DME or Jiddah/TLV/CAI...
Flexibility is what quite a segment of pax look for. Less destinations and more flights per day.

I can see AFKLM and a wide range from LCCs to traditional smaller hub airlines.
like SAS, the LHG members Brussels, Austrian, LX, LH Regional. Or the IAG members. A common group aircraft that can be flying for whatever brand of a group. And with deliveries only mid to longterm, the CS can be more of an in the future regional/mid range fleet strategy for many european carrier.

I can’t wait to know who this airline is ;)


Agree. Anybody with this subfleet would escape the competition from low costs... Competing on a different basis. Of course LC could replicate as well but would they go to another subfleet as well?

LCC's might get away with it, but I am not sure if ULCC's can. Ulcc's require cominality to keep costs down. Now if a new Ulcc started up with the cseries that would be a difficult nut for other airlines to crack. Ulcc's with cseries will probably force competitors to start a subfleet. Currently the 737s are the "go to" aircraft for most ulcc's, but that might change. There is not much more that can be done to keep the 737 competitive, therefore Boeing has to make a decision on a clean sheet design shortly. If Boeing starts a clean sheet current ulcc's that are running with the 737 will be forced to eventually bring in a different type. Yes these are interesting times!
 
thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:47 pm

Basically if Airbus is attempting to redefine the narrow body market to their advantage and build the cs500. Boeing needs to act fast
 
kanye
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:32 am

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:07 pm

Bostrom wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
The C-Series would be perfect for operations in Norway, but I don't think they'd do that without phasing out all the 737s. But that might happen either way.


How many 737s are based in Norway, and how many of them are 737-800s? The C-series family is just too small to replace the 737-800, and I just can't see them going for a mixed fleet of CS100, CS300 and 737-800, on top of all the A320 variants based in Denmark and Sweden. Could they be the launch customer for the CS500?


There has been rumours about SAS looking at the Cseries, but I'm not sure if there is any truth behind the rumours. But even if it is, 31+30 would be a big order for SAS. They have 58 737s at the moment (not counting the 737-600 that are being retired), and will as you mention need something bigger to replace the 737-800.




That means this order would completely replace the 737s+the incoming 30 A320neos for bigger routes.
My bet is either SN or SK on this.
 
thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:23 pm

kanye wrote:
Bostrom wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

How many 737s are based in Norway, and how many of them are 737-800s? The C-series family is just too small to replace the 737-800, and I just can't see them going for a mixed fleet of CS100, CS300 and 737-800, on top of all the A320 variants based in Denmark and Sweden. Could they be the launch customer for the CS500?


There has been rumours about SAS looking at the Cseries, but I'm not sure if there is any truth behind the rumours. But even if it is, 31+30 would be a big order for SAS. They have 58 737s at the moment (not counting the 737-600 that are being retired), and will as you mention need something bigger to replace the 737-800.




That means this order would completely replace the 737s+the incoming 30 A320neos for bigger routes.
My bet is either SN or SK on this.


That's the way I was reading it. But who knows this is a interesting time in the market, airlines buying for the future are likely looking into things differently now.
 
User avatar
JerseyFlyer
Posts: 1418
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 7:24 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:44 pm

My vote is IAG.

To replace / down-guage some of BA and IB's A319s and replace / up-guage some of the BA Citiflyer Ejets at LCY and RJs at IB (Air Nostrum).

I am already looking forward to seeing them on LGW - JER!
 
thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:50 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
My vote is IAG.

To replace / down-guage some of BA and IB's A319s and replace / up-guage some of the BA Citiflyer Ejets at LCY and RJs at IB (Air Nostrum).

I am already looking forward to seeing them on LGW - JER!



Would be some good exposure for the cseries. A little competition with Swiss at LYC is likely on their agenda .
 
Beatyair
Posts: 856
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:09 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:57 pm

Could be Air Baltic. They are looking at replacing there leased Q400’s. There was discussions and rumours of the CS100. I would still like to see BA take an order and dominate the gates at the incoming LCY expansion. Sometime inside keeps thinking of a east European airline.
 
thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:12 pm

Beatyair wrote:
Could be Air Baltic. They are looking at replacing there leased Q400’s. There was discussions and rumours of the CS100. I would still like to see BA take an order and dominate the gates at the incoming LCY expansion. Sometime inside keeps thinking of a east European airline.

They have already announced. Plus it says the order will be from a new purchaser
 
Pendennis
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:36 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:15 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
My vote is IAG.

To replace / down-guage some of BA and IB's A319s and replace / up-guage some of the BA Citiflyer Ejets at LCY and RJs at IB (Air Nostrum).

I am already looking forward to seeing them on LGW - JER!



I was under the impression that there are a restricted number of stands at LCY that the CSeries (and A318) can use, owing to the height of the fin and rudder encroaching on the runway protected area. Also CityFlyer are limited to 99 seats under a Union agreement, would even the CS100 be economic with that restriction?

However 31 is a rather odd number to order; if as speculated it is a mix of types, could it be 30 x CS300 plus 1 x CS100 for IAG the latter to replace the remaining BA A318. However I don't see the CS300 in the BA Mainline fleet, Heathrow slots are too valuable for an aircraft of that capacity. If (a big if) the 3rd runway goes ahead, there will be a requirement to operate to an increased number of UK domestic destinations. The CS300 could be perfect for those routes.
 
smi0006
Posts: 2395
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:30 pm

angelopga wrote:
Maybe it's Finnair. Or Meridiana :)


Meridiana would be a fun choice! Love to see them expand. With all the maxes coming though... uncle QR could bankroll them.
 
thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:44 pm

Pendennis wrote:
JerseyFlyer wrote:
My vote is IAG.

To replace / down-guage some of BA and IB's A319s and replace / up-guage some of the BA Citiflyer Ejets at LCY and RJs at IB (Air Nostrum).

I am already looking forward to seeing them on LGW - JER!



I was under the impression that there are a restricted number of stands at LCY that the CSeries (and A318) can use, owing to the height of the fin and rudder encroaching on the runway protected area. Also CityFlyer are limited to 99 seats under a Union agreement, would even the CS100 be economic with that restriction?

However 31 is a rather odd number to order; if as speculated it is a mix of types, could it be 30 x CS300 plus 1 x CS100 for IAG the latter to replace the remaining BA A318. However I don't see the CS300 in the BA Mainline fleet, Heathrow slots are too valuable for an aircraft of that capacity. If (a big if) the 3rd runway goes ahead, there will be a requirement to operate to an increased number of UK domestic destinations. The CS300 could be perfect for those routes.[/quote]

Articles in regards to the LCY expansion are stating 7 new gates will be added for cseries sized aircraft, so that should not be a concern in the future. I don't know about the 99 seat union agreement at CityFlyer, if so talks are required. The cseries will more then double the range for them out of LCY
 
AAvgeek744
Posts: 750
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:08 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:07 pm

hitchy81 wrote:
Easyjet - to replace the A319s they are selling to United


Doubtful given the are taking ex AB Airbus frames to build a base in Berlin.
 
JulietteBravo
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:25 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:31 pm

Beatyair wrote:
Could be Air Baltic. They are looking at replacing there leased Q400’s. There was discussions and rumours of the CS100. I would still like to see BA take an order and dominate the gates at the incoming LCY expansion. Sometime inside keeps thinking of a east European airline.


Air Baltic with 30 new CS? Would double their fleet. I cannot see that.

Complete SN short haul fleet mid term to CS100 and 300 could make sense.
 
User avatar
albertocsc
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:09 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:58 pm

eamondzhang wrote:
FrancisBegbie wrote:
tlecam wrote:
(I'm not sure if their A318 has a proper C class or just Y class seat with blocked middle seats)


They have a true C class. Just their 738s have blocked middle seats.
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1433
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:03 am

albertocsc wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
FrancisBegbie wrote:


They have a true C class. Just their 738s have blocked middle seats.

Thanks for the clarification.

Cheers
Michael
 
User avatar
tlecam
Posts: 1461
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:11 am

albertocsc wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
FrancisBegbie wrote:


They have a true C class. Just their 738s have blocked middle seats.



I did not write what you’re quoting.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1433
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:24 am

tlecam wrote:
I did not write what you’re quoting.

Lol I did that, don't know why it's jumping to your quotes. Probably a misquote.

Cheers
Michael
 
Andy33
Posts: 2504
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:11 am

JerseyFlyer wrote:
My vote is IAG.

To replace / down-guage some of BA and IB's A319s and replace / up-guage some of the BA Citiflyer Ejets at LCY and RJs at IB (Air Nostrum).

I am already looking forward to seeing them on LGW - JER!


BA already have 25 A320neo on firm order to replace a similar number of A319s, so upgauging appears to be very much corporate policy, just not in the way you are suggesting. Deliveries start in around 6 months time, so a bit late to change now. As BA at LHR is 100% containerised baggage and cargo, and C-series don't do containers, you aren't likely to see any there. LGW is different, but only has 11 allocated A319s.

Air Nostrum is not part of IAG, they just operate flights for IB under contract, the same applies to the regional flights flown by Stobart Air for Aer Lingus. If IAG is acquiring C-Series to replace any of either, it also implies they are taking the operations in-house.
 
User avatar
JerseyFlyer
Posts: 1418
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 7:24 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:13 am

Andy33 wrote:
Air Nostrum is not part of IAG, they just operate flights for IB under contract, the same applies to the regional flights flown by Stobart Air for Aer Lingus. If IAG is acquiring C-Series to replace any of either, it also implies they are taking the operations in-house.


Possibly but not necessarily. When GB Airways and BMed were operating as BA franchisees, they took A 320 / 321 to BA standard, and I think drawn from BA's pre-existing orders and options backlog.

But I agree IAG are unlikely to order on behalf of franchisees unless they are taking some into their mainline fleets also.
 
thumper76
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:33 pm

AF does seem ripe for the cseries. A mixed order of cs100's and 300's would replace the a318's and 319's nicely. They also have yet to decide on their 320-200's future replacement. I could see AF being happy to be the launch customer for the CS500. It boils down to how far Airbus will push the cseries family(AF most likely to have some insight). IMHO Airbus bought into the cseries to redefine future narrow body market to their advantage, leading me to believe the cs500 is coming.

If AF is the purchaser it would likely put to rest any questions in regards to the future of the cseries with Airbus. It would have a big impact on the future of the cseries program.
 
fcogafa
Posts: 1191
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:37 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:30 pm

Is this a clue from today's Times (subscription)..

In an article about BMI, a quote from its chief commercial officer

================
Mr Schnadt expects “a bit of M&A, or a joint venture, or an equity event”, which will prompt BMI to do a deal with an existing EU operator to piggy-back its flying licence. That could lead to two things: BMI increasing its fleet to start flying 80-100 seater Embraers or Bombardier jets; and a “jazz-up” of the brand.
================
 
Tominjsh
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:04 pm

Re: Bombardier announces LoI for 31 (+30 Options) CSeries from an unnamed European Customer

Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:05 pm

Beatyair wrote:
Could be Air Baltic. They are looking at replacing there leased Q400’s. There was discussions and rumours of the CS100. I would still like to see BA take an order and dominate the gates at the incoming LCY expansion. Sometime inside keeps thinking of a east European airline.

too much for them. but, if airBaltic want's to expand a lot in Tallinn and Vilnius & serve some charter customers as well, amount could be reasonable for next 5-6 years.
They are already 2-3 planes short at the moment.

And if RIX airport is leaving their equipment where it shouldn't be, they will need a lot spare airplanes :))
https://pietiek.com/raksti/_airbaltic__ ... adauzisanu
http://apollo.tvnet.lv/zinas/aizvaditaj ... nem/812374

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos