• 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 19
 
Gemuser
Posts: 5044
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:04 pm

airbazar wrote:
Gemuser wrote:
??? How could EK BYPASS DXB???

Different options:
More 5th freedom routes such as MXP-JFK.
Start a mini hub somewhere else.
Fly p-2-p routes, where allowed.
How much would Indian regulator "charge" to allow EK to fly India-U.S. non-stop?

None of these are really feasible. Fifth freedom is not really hub bypass & each flight must start/end at DXB. Start mini hub and more p-2p outs would be a bypass but who is going to allow that? Not really feasible.

Gemuser
 
airbazar
Posts: 9952
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:08 pm

Gemuser wrote:
airbazar wrote:
Gemuser wrote:
??? How could EK BYPASS DXB???

Different options:
More 5th freedom routes such as MXP-JFK.
Start a mini hub somewhere else.
Fly p-2-p routes, where allowed.
How much would Indian regulator "charge" to allow EK to fly India-U.S. non-stop?

None of these are really feasible. Fifth freedom is not really hub bypass & each flight must start/end at DXB. Start mini hub and more p-2p outs would be a bypass but who is going to allow that? Not really feasible.

So people who are flying JFK-MXP-JFK are not bypassing DXB?
EK is in the business of transporting people from point A to point B.If they see an opportunity to not do it via DXB they will when allowed.
 
User avatar
Ab345
Posts: 1048
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:44 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:46 pm

Revelation wrote:
travelhound wrote:
…….and this is where the irony lies. Emirates was an airline that for the most part was able to undermine the business models of the established legacy carriers limiting their ability to use an aircraft the size of the A380. Today, the emerging LCC’s are doing, in part the same thing to Emirates.

And thus STC's anger that he couldn't get Airbus to build him an A380neo or something even better: he needs a lower CASM to fight off the LCCs.


FG has an article on this also and a couple of bits from the event that I think haven't been mentioned here:

Referring to outgoing Airbus chief operating officer for customers John Leahy, he says: "I am not sure I'll let John retire without at least one more significant A380 order."

Emirates Group chief executive Ahmed bin Saaed Al-Maktoum confirms that the airline has had talks about ordering further aircraft and is "very interested" in the A380plus.

Revelation in another thread (I think it was the possible TG NH A380 repeat order) I also commented at one of your posts that I can't see Leahy retiring without scoring another A380 order even if it is for EK and Enders seems to be pushing for that also :)

STC may not be all that impressed with the Plus, although IMHO he just wants to raise the pressure for the neo, but if the boss is "very interested" in the Plus and they might get it.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ch-442865/
 
travelhound
Posts: 1932
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 9:13 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:01 pm

airbazar wrote:

How much would Indian regulator "charge" to allow EK to fly India-U.S. non-stop?


Another aspect of the ME3 / Emirates story is that of the Indian carriers. Air India is just starting to find its stride with the 787. It won't be too long (relatively) before the other Indian carriers start using new generation aircraft to fly their homeland indigenous Indian population direct to their destinations using P2P business models. At some point of time the Indian carriers will reach a deflection point where P2P travel will start to substantially undermine Emirates Hub and Spoke model.

As such, Emirates Hub and Spoke model, once a competitive advantage could well become a competitive (economic and product) disadvantage. We are probably witnessing the beginnings of a market driven by a new wave of political, economic, social and technological (PERT) change.

This is not an Emirates / ME3 / A380 bashing quest. It is simply a realisation the world is an ever changing place and with that businesses (airlines) face PEST opportunities and threats on an ongoing basis. Emirates, just like the legacy carriers of yesteryear are not immune to these types of realities.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 18263
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:18 pm

toxtethogrady wrote:
At some point, Emirates is going to dump its existing A380s on the resale market.


Not Emirates, since they don't own any of the A380s they operate.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
User avatar
Slug71
Posts: 1435
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:08 am

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:17 am

KarelXWB wrote:
Emirates may eventually need as many as 200 A380s:

The new Dubai World Central Airport (DWC) would allow Emirates Airline to operate 200 Airbus A380s – twice as many as it has today, the carrier’s president said Friday.

Speaking to ATW in Hamburg on the sidelines of ceremonies for the delivery of Emirates’ 100th A380, Tim Clark said the new airport will have 100 gates capable of handling very large aircraft (VLA) like the A380 and Boeing 747-8i, which would “easily” facilitate the operation of 200 A380s.


http://atwonline.com/airbus-a380/clark- ... ai-airport


Well if this is anything to go by, add in China's possible needs for 60-100 as previously discussed, and the possible orders for IAG, ANA, and TG also previously discussed. I would think SQ and LH would also be good candidates, and Airbus could be looking at potential sales of +/-400 aircraft.
Of course, that all depends on the accuracy/truth to the claims being thrown around.
 
User avatar
JetBuddy
Posts: 2422
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:04 am

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:25 am

lightsaber wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
The only way to grow at a constrained airport, is to upgauge the equipment. Hoping for a reduction in 777 orders and an increase in A380.

The other way to grow is connect less traffic and bypass the congestion. Now this is usually a competitor. But EK could use say 787s to bypass DXB if needed.

Most important is CASM. Big only works if costs are low enough to not lose too much in the slow season.

Lightsaber


Bypassing DXB would completely ruin their entire business model. I don't think that's an option.
 
Gemuser
Posts: 5044
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:12 am

airbazar wrote:
Gemuser wrote:
airbazar wrote:
Different options:
More 5th freedom routes such as MXP-JFK.
Start a mini hub somewhere else.
Fly p-2-p routes, where allowed.
How much would Indian regulator "charge" to allow EK to fly India-U.S. non-stop?

None of these are really feasible. Fifth freedom is not really hub bypass & each flight must start/end at DXB. Start mini hub and more p-2p outs would be a bypass but who is going to allow that? Not really feasible.

So people who are flying JFK-MXP-JFK are not bypassing DXB?
EK is in the business of transporting people from point A to point B.If they see an opportunity to not do it via DXB they will when allowed.

Not according to my dictionary! To bypass something you have to "go passed it" so JFK-MXP-JFK traffic is not bypassing DXB. It is growth "outside the hub" I'll grant you but its not likely to be significant, 5th freedom hasn't been for years.

Gemuser
 
2175301
Posts: 1633
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 11:19 am

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:37 am

Excuse me for being a bit skeptical... But, Airbus has been talking about such orders for years... and it seems such talk always seems to peak prior to the Dubai Airshow...

It could be a boost to the program for Airbus (will a few orders at a slow rate of production really help Airbus financially?); but, if the last 5+ year history is any guide... this is most likely just talk. It'd be nice to be wrong on that. Nothing to get excited about based on history...

Have a great day,
 
parapente
Posts: 3061
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:42 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:19 am

It isn't Airbus talking about these orders.Nor is it amade up 'what if' thread by an a nutter.It is the major aviation press and comments from the owners of the airline in question.So no need to be sceptical really -but whatever.
The cold hard facts are that Emirates have taken delivery of their 100th frame.Their whole business model is built around this aircraft (their view not a net).They have used it to become the largest long haul airline in the World.All their aircraft are on lease and those leases will all terminate.
The same is true of their 777 fleet which will be replaced by a ...new 777 fleet.
So unless their business model is about to change of course they are going to buy more in the near future.Maybe at the show -maybe not.
 
astuteman
Posts: 7071
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:44 am

2175301 wrote:
Excuse me for being a bit skeptical... But, Airbus has been talking about such orders for years... and it seems such talk always seems to peak prior to the Dubai Airshow...

It could be a boost to the program for Airbus (will a few orders at a slow rate of production really help Airbus financially?); but, if the last 5+ year history is any guide... this is most likely just talk. It'd be nice to be wrong on that. Nothing to get excited about based on history...

Have a great day,


If it was Airbus talking I could almost go along with the bash.

But it isn't.

And if the customers comments turn into reality, then I would argue it's quite a big thing, given that a great deal of A-net has had the programme DOA for a long time.

Rgds
 
travelhound
Posts: 1932
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 9:13 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:02 am

Using my A380 deliveries calculator and punching in the known information on deliveries and production rates it looks like Emirates are planning on taking 8 A380's per year for the next five years. This means the current order backlog will be exhausted by the end of 2022 or five years,worth of production.

Assuming Emirates would want to sustain A380 deliveries of 8 aircraft per year after 2022, an order for twenty aircraft would allow production to continue until mid 2025.

This wouldn't be a bad outcome for Airbus. It would sustain the A380 till mid 2025 where, I suspect an aircraft in the A380 size segment would come into its own element.

Maybe, an Emirates order is a plausible possibility.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 11853
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:03 am

KarelXWB wrote:
Revelation wrote:
travelhound wrote:
The only way I can see them ordering more A380's is if they retire aircraft early.

Retirement has always been a part of the plan. IIRC they will start doing A380 retirements in 2018 or 2018. I thought the last 25 ordered were to be replacements of the earliest 25 which suggests the fleet stabilizes around 105 frames.


The first one will be retired in 2020. Unlike SQ, Emirates leases on a 12-years period. Thus EK will operate some 120 A380s by then and the remaining 25 on order are for retirement.


I think that is not correct, Doric Flugzeugfond 6 for an EK A380 had 10 years plus a two and a six years extention option, and if memory serves me correct all other two.
That being said, if they don't take the two years extension EK has to pay a lump sum or provide a new leasee under the same condition. So, it is 12 years in a sense.

Best rehards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
lowbank
Posts: 511
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:10 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:06 am

KarelXWB wrote:
Revelation wrote:
So the only part of the Plus that is attractive to EK is the aero improvements and winglets.


Rolls-Royce was also willing to commit to further engine improvements if enough orders come in.

And yes, Emirates will most likely not opt for 11-abreast seating, though could still add additional seats by reconfiguring the entire cabin.


Holy moly, please no.
If that happens I really need to retire.
Every days a school day.
 
NZ321
Posts: 1145
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:47 am

By 2025 there will be several operators who could opt to replace A380s delivered before 2010. Emirates will need more than 8 aircraft a year to replace their classic fleet given the rate at which they were delivered (more than 8 aircraft per year). So this scenario of a tie-over order to keep producing ticking until the PLUS can be launched with engine improvements seems plausible.
Plane mad!
 
lowbank
Posts: 511
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:10 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:08 am

For me where the T900 sits right now.
Doing a PIP would be such a large redesign it would almost be a NEO anyway.
Every days a school day.
 
B777LRF
Posts: 2606
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:23 am

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:12 am

airbazar wrote:
EK is in the business of transporting people from point A to point B.


That is, strictly speaking, not correct. The purpose of Emirates is to promote the Dubai brand, provide a source of employment for Dubai nationals and bring tourists and their money to Dubai. The 5th freedom flights out of e.g. Malpensa are not the result of a well-defined strategy to lift as many passengers as possible, rather it's an act of desperation born by having too many A380s in their fleet and not enough places to send them.
Signature. You just read one.
 
NZ321
Posts: 1145
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:22 am

B777LRF wrote:
airbazar wrote:
EK is in the business of transporting people from point A to point B.


That is, strictly speaking, not correct. The purpose of Emirates is to promote the Dubai brand, provide a source of employment for Dubai nationals and bring tourists and their money to Dubai. The 5th freedom flights out of e.g. Malpensa are not the result of a well-defined strategy to lift as many passengers as possible, rather it's an act of desperation born by having too many A380s in their fleet and not enough places to send them.


I'm not so sure about the last sentence in your response. I think that serving 5th freedom flights also has an upside that it introduces your product to a wider clientele in markets - potentially - where other products are inferior (no doubt about that between MXP and North America). That can win you customers. It can build brand loyalty. It can - and has - created a huge frequent flyer loyalty to Emirates. Look at the Kangaroo route. Australasia - UK and Europe is an intensely fought market on one of the longest routes on the planet. Emirates has significant market share and many premium travellers. Whether you agree with the 5th freedom rights is another point. I don't see it as an act of desperation. Emirates is hardly desperate. They remain profitable. They are responsive. I'd say innovative. They are ambitious and will try many things other carriers will not (albeit to this point not premium economy). 5th freedom flights I see as part of the whole. And with Alitalia's reputation, and that of the major US carriers, good on Emirates for having a go.
Plane mad!
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 22674
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:48 am

parapente wrote:
It isn't Airbus talking about these orders.Nor is it amade up 'what if' thread by an a nutter.It is the major aviation press and comments from the owners of the airline in question.So no need to be sceptical really -but whatever.
The cold hard facts are that Emirates have taken delivery of their 100th frame.Their whole business model is built around this aircraft (their view not a net).They have used it to become the largest long haul airline in the World.All their aircraft are on lease and those leases will all terminate.
The same is true of their 777 fleet which will be replaced by a ...new 777 fleet.
So unless their business model is about to change of course they are going to buy more in the near future.Maybe at the show -maybe not.

Here we have the Sheik himself coyly saying “I hope that we will be able to do it” fully knowing in two weeks time he himself will be the host of the Dubai Air Show.

The Sheik isn't the kind of guy who hopes for much, he knows.

After this press exercise, I think it'd be really poor optics if there isn't an order at the Dubai Air Show.

EK would look bad, the Sheik would look bad, Airbus would look bad and Dubai would look bad.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 22674
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:03 am

lowbank wrote:
For me where the T900 sits right now.
Doing a PIP would be such a large redesign it would almost be a NEO anyway.

Seems the last T900 PIP was a struggle, and it was done to get EK to switch from GP to RR engines.

It took an order of 50 airplanes to get that done.

It's hard to see how incremental orders will bring a new PIP along with them.

RR will want to cash in on the last PIP for a while, I would think.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
Arion640
Posts: 2817
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:12 am

B777LRF wrote:
airbazar wrote:
EK is in the business of transporting people from point A to point B.


That is, strictly speaking, not correct. The purpose of Emirates is to promote the Dubai brand, provide a source of employment for Dubai nationals and bring tourists and their money to Dubai. The 5th freedom flights out of e.g. Malpensa are not the result of a well-defined strategy to lift as many passengers as possible, rather it's an act of desperation born by having too many A380s in their fleet and not enough places to send them.


I think the focus is now shifting to profitability, they're cutting back in certain places while they have found other non DXB point to point niche opportunities to make money e.g MXP-JFK and ATH-EWR. Think of them what you will, they have certainly done well.
1973-2020
 
WIederling
Posts: 9309
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:46 am

Revelation wrote:
RR will want to cash in on the last PIP for a while, I would think.


There was a lot of Bruhaha over this last PIP going through the press.
( presenting it as something were RR had complete lost it )

She suddenly everything was quiet.
Fake? ( i.e. just another one of these carefully orchestrated disMEMEring campaigns?)
(half)True?
Anything further from RR "open" to achieve the customer turning performance promises?
Murphy is an optimist
 
lowbank
Posts: 511
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:10 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:57 am

Revelation wrote:
lowbank wrote:
For me where the T900 sits right now.
Doing a PIP would be such a large redesign it would almost be a NEO anyway.

Seems the last T900 PIP was a struggle, and it was done to get EK to switch from GP to RR engines.

It took an order of 50 airplanes to get that done.

It's hard to see how incremental orders will bring a new PIP along with them.

RR will want to cash in on the last PIP for a while, I would think.


I wish I could answer to this post, but to do so would get me in trouble.
Every days a school day.
 
parapente
Posts: 3061
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:42 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:25 pm

Fair enough.This is only a forum -certainly not worth your job!But interesting none the less -no smoke without fire ;-)

On a small tangent,since we are talking about Emirates/their fleet.
One thing that (to me) stands out about Emirates and their spectacular last decade...
No Premium economy.
It's been one of the biggest (internal) changes to flying over this decade especially long haul.Millions have been invested in ever better product.
Of course as for every airline a balance has to be found so that Biz class is not cannibalised.But it appears that just about every other long haul airline has found that balance.
Of course it is only done for one reason -extra revenue/profit.Prem prods are just over twice the price of stdY (and half Biz).
But Emirates have and are doing perfectly well without this offering which is seen as so necessary to other airlines.
Clearly they would do it if it made them additional money -so one imagines they don't think it will.Am confused frankly.
PS Their latest 2 class A380's seem tailor made for it with the back of the upper deck now converted to Y.
 
RalXWB
Posts: 483
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:36 am

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:12 pm

WIederling wrote:
Strato2 wrote:
Great news! Especially makes one giggle with the thought of the resident A380 haters here squirming because the damn thing just refuses to fade away. :D


tone deaf and busy:
http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/909191834?-303:3665:3
Saj Amad, renowned airline analüst at his best.


That guy and his website is beyond ridiculous but perhaps the payment for PR by B is quite high :rotfl:
 
Tedd
Posts: 474
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:22 am

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:11 pm

lowbank wrote:
Revelation wrote:
lowbank wrote:
For me where the T900 sits right now.
Doing a PIP would be such a large redesign it would almost be a NEO anyway.

Seems the last T900 PIP was a struggle, and it was done to get EK to switch from GP to RR engines.

It took an order of 50 airplanes to get that done.

It's hard to see how incremental orders will bring a new PIP along with them.

RR will want to cash in on the last PIP for a while, I would think.


I wish I could answer to this post, but to do so would get me in trouble.


Whether or not the last PIP was a struggle, RR are on board with Emirates & all seems tickety-boo, & a further
order will see Trent 900`s in place. With Advance tech coming in just a few years wouldn`t it be prudent to
concentrate resources on that, rather than extract the last ounce from the 900 with the associated cost & the
slight risk of losing hard won reliability?
Some on here have suggested the Trent 7000 isn`t powerful enough for the A380, I`d have thought it close to
be able to. Isn`t there enough scope to PIP that turbine & the Trent 1000 for the B787, it could be a valuable
insurance policy in case there are Advance complications, & give the A380 a boost around 2020 when 777x
EIS?
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 22674
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:21 pm

Tedd wrote:
lowbank wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Seems the last T900 PIP was a struggle, and it was done to get EK to switch from GP to RR engines.

It took an order of 50 airplanes to get that done.

It's hard to see how incremental orders will bring a new PIP along with them.

RR will want to cash in on the last PIP for a while, I would think.


I wish I could answer to this post, but to do so would get me in trouble.


Whether or not the last PIP was a struggle, RR are on board with Emirates & all seems tickety-boo, & a further
order will see Trent 900`s in place. With Advance tech coming in just a few years wouldn`t it be prudent to
concentrate resources on that, rather than extract the last ounce from the 900 with the associated cost & the
slight risk of losing hard won reliability?
Some on here have suggested the Trent 7000 isn`t powerful enough for the A380, I`d have thought it close to
be able to. Isn`t there enough scope to PIP that turbine & the Trent 1000 for the B787, it could be a valuable
insurance policy in case there are Advance complications, & give the A380 a boost around 2020 when 777x
EIS?

I agree RR has worked through the issues with introducing the PIP for EK on the A380. The thing is most engine makers need a larger run to make a profit off all the R&D they do for such a PIP. It's hard to see how they justify another any time soon. A NEO would be even more expense, never mind Advance.

Keep in mind RR has reported profitability disappointments due to the cost of ramping up the TXWB-84 and TXWB-97 and are having a lot of problems with aircraft on the ground because T1000 blade need to be replaced, as per our current thread ( viewtopic.php?p=19934853#p19934853 ).

It's probably not a good time for someone at RR to suggest starting a new program.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 6614
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:52 pm

scbriml wrote:
It will "likely" be for 20 according to Leeham.

https://leehamnews.com/2017/11/03/emira ... more-25251


It's been demonstrated that the operator list for A380s is pretty short (relative to 744/777/A330), and, outside of Emirates and SQ, those operators have generally ordered few. So one needs to be skeptical that there is demand beyond Emirates. Thus the big financial question: what kind of capital investment in upgrades does a single order of 20 really support?
 
Couprace
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:17 am

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:10 pm

Strato2 wrote:
Great news! Especially makes one giggle with the thought of the resident A380 haters here squirming because the damn thing just refuses to fade away. :D



The A380 will never fade away as long as Airbus is willing to limp along at 6-8 frames per year and operate at a loss. Every A380 being built will be negative cash for Airbus. If that is something to cheer about than by all means open up the champagne.
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 9214
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:13 pm

If they keep the line open until 2025-27 a NEO is a much more possible option.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 3539
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:48 pm

Couprace wrote:
Strato2 wrote:
Great news! Especially makes one giggle with the thought of the resident A380 haters here squirming because the damn thing just refuses to fade away. :D



The A380 will never fade away as long as Airbus is willing to limp along at 6-8 frames per year and operate at a loss. Every A380 being built will be negative cash for Airbus. If that is something to cheer about than by all means open up the champagne.


Producing those 6-8 planes a year may be cheaper than incurring the costs of shutting down the line. And so long as they are being produced the possibility in the next decade of a real update remains a possibility.

ps - There are few 380 haters on a-net. There are a lot of people who did not think the business case was there. Not the same.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
parapente
Posts: 3061
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:42 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:02 pm

In terms of costs.Not only (as above) would there be huge costs involved in complete closure - which if the thread starting article is correct clearly is not gonna happen anytime soon - but there are potentially great gains to be had via 'marginal costing'.Anyone involved in major manufacturing will understand this accounting principle.Product 'A' might not show an operating profit but if it were not there then products B and C would show sharply lower profits.
Also the sunk fixed costs are just that -sunk and the variable costs -well yup they vary with output so not so much of a problem.
The longer the line is run (at b/e no idea whether that can be done at 8PA or not) then the further the fixed costs are depreciated which is another obvious benefit long term.
None of this is to say that the A380 programme is not in a major loss position.It is and will remain so.But over time that loss position can be reduced.

On a separate matter regarding the above mention of the T1000 TEN (T7000).Rolls have stated that the engine is quite capable of running happily at 78k lbs thrust.Should be enough for the 380.Not that I think they will -just that they could.
 
sandyb123
Posts: 923
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:29 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:26 pm

Just putting it out there... the common consensus is that EK is reaching market saturation with its hub and spoke operation at Dubai. The eventual move to DWC will help but there are only so many people flying globally and whist there is big growth, EK is somewhat ahead of the game which suggests there will be some latency as the others and the markets catch up.

I wonder if EK / Emirates Group is considering spinning up a new airline which doesn’t compete with, or at least compliments the EK Business?

With so many aircraft and crew it helps hedge against competition, gain additional revenue, market share and have even more buying power with the OEMs.

Dubai is keen to remove reliance on oil (and with global demand for oil expected to dramatically reduce over the next 20 years anyway) this is a good way to increase income from an industry the Middle East does very well at.

It would be fairly turnkey, similar to Norwegian etc, IAG etc who are building businesses ‘offshore’. Potentially a base in Asia or (heaven forbid) America with their magic combination of huge equity, cheap labour and excellent product.

Am I crazy or credible?

Sandyb123
Member of the mile high club
 
lowbank
Posts: 511
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:10 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:03 pm

Revelation wrote:
Tedd wrote:
lowbank wrote:

I wish I could answer to this post, but to do so would get me in trouble.


Whether or not the last PIP was a struggle, RR are on board with Emirates & all seems tickety-boo, & a further
order will see Trent 900`s in place. With Advance tech coming in just a few years wouldn`t it be prudent to
concentrate resources on that, rather than extract the last ounce from the 900 with the associated cost & the
slight risk of losing hard won reliability?
Some on here have suggested the Trent 7000 isn`t powerful enough for the A380, I`d have thought it close to
be able to. Isn`t there enough scope to PIP that turbine & the Trent 1000 for the B787, it could be a valuable
insurance policy in case there are Advance complications, & give the A380 a boost around 2020 when 777x
EIS?

I agree RR has worked through the issues with introducing the PIP for EK on the A380. The thing is most engine makers need a larger run to make a profit off all the R&D they do for such a PIP. It's hard to see how they justify another any time soon. A NEO would be even more expense, never mind Advance.

Keep in mind RR has reported profitability disappointments due to the cost of ramping up the TXWB-84 and TXWB-97 and are having a lot of problems with aircraft on the ground because T1000 blade need to be replaced, as per our current thread ( viewtopic.php?p=19934853#p19934853 ).

It's probably not a good time for someone at RR to suggest starting a new program.


The latest studies are predicting the costs of delivering a 1% improvement in SFC have trebled.

The more you improve, that harder it gets to improve even more.
Every days a school day.
 
User avatar
Slug71
Posts: 1435
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:08 am

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:18 pm

parapente wrote:
On a separate matter regarding the above mention of the T1000 TEN (T7000).Rolls have stated that the engine is quite capable of running happily at 78k lbs thrust.Should be enough for the 380.Not that I think they will -just that they could.


IMO using the T7000 on the Plus makes the most sense. Provides a good stop-gap to the Advance/Ultrafan at the end of next decade, but would also provide a lot of commonality.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 22674
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:19 pm

lowbank wrote:
The latest studies are predicting the costs of delivering a 1% improvement in SFC have trebled.

The more you improve, that harder it gets to improve even more.

If we make the leap and say the last PIP was based on selling 50 A380s, then they'd need to see potential for another 150 new A380s with Trents in order to make it worthwhile. I'm not sure that's the exact logic, but at least it gives us some visualization of what it will take to get to the next PIP. As you wrote earlier, it seems a NEO is as likely as a new PIP would be.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
User avatar
JannEejit
Posts: 1443
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:24 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
The only way to grow at a constrained airport, is to upgauge the equipment. Hoping for a reduction in 777 orders and an increase in A380.


Assuming presumably you can also instigate an upgauge in airports capable of handling the A380, something in itself that surely influences the current state of the A380 order book too ?
 
User avatar
Jayafe
Posts: 1219
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:12 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:37 pm

JannEejit wrote:
Assuming presumably you can also instigate an upgauge in airports capable of handling the A380, something in itself that surely influences the current state of the A380 order book too ?


One more a.net myth...
 
WIederling
Posts: 9309
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:40 pm

JannEejit wrote:
Assuming presumably you can also instigate an upgauge in airports capable of handling the A380, something in itself that surely influences the current state of the A380 order book too ?


Is it really an issue beyond the naysayers :-) ?
Murphy is an optimist
 
DDR
Posts: 1686
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:09 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:06 pm

WIederling wrote:
JannEejit wrote:
Assuming presumably you can also instigate an upgauge in airports capable of handling the A380, something in itself that surely influences the current state of the A380 order book too ?


Is it really an issue beyond the naysayers :-) ?


Yea, actually it is. Knowledge is power. Try it.
 
Gemuser
Posts: 5044
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:09 pm

Jayafe wrote:
JannEejit wrote:
Assuming presumably you can also instigate an upgauge in airports capable of handling the A380, something in itself that surely influences the current state of the A380 order book too ?


One more a.net myth...

Yes it is and a stubborn one too!
Once again from the top:
The A380 was designed to operate from any airport that the B744 can operate from, which is most, if not all major ones likely to see the type. There are two exceptions one explicated stated by Airbus and another assumed by everyone. First assumption: "That the airport does NOT have an absolute weight limited structure that the aircraft would be required to cross" Second unstated assumption: the airport was built "properly". This is actually a joke as no airport was built "properly". Airports are large civil construction projects that in most cases are NEVER really finished and are in use for decades. A lot of todays airports are pushing a century old and have been built & rebuild so many times so features do occur that do in fact require modifications for A380 operations. These are mainly detail works, such as taxiway fillets etc and are often covered out of the maintenance budget.
I am unaware of any major projects that were required SOLELY FOR A380 operations, I'd be interested to hear of any that have actually been built BUT BUT BUT do not quote me any terminal modification projects or "A380 gate" projects as these are NOT required for the aircraft's operation.

Gemuser
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 18263
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:45 pm

DDR wrote:
Yea, actually it is. Knowledge is power. Try it.


Please enlighten us as to which of the World's top 100 airports can't handle an A380.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
User avatar
JannEejit
Posts: 1443
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:10 pm

I'm talking about mid-sized airports that EK for one have expressed a desire to send A380 to, but instead send lesser aircraft owing to operational restrictions at said airports, even if they already receive 744's on a regular basis. GLA would be a good case in point, with regular Virgin Atlantic 744 movements and a spoken desire from Emirates to operate an A380 service at some stage. At the moment (as witnessed during the one off appearance in 2014) a considerable raft of CAA imposed extra procedural measures need to be put in place, with regards to taxying, parking, pushback and removal of aircraft from adjacent stands etc. The one off visit was never repeated despite a clear demand in terms of passengers.
 
ADOB
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:27 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:13 pm

scbriml wrote:
DDR wrote:
Yea, actually it is. Knowledge is power. Try it.


Please enlighten us as to which of the World's top 100 airports can't handle an A380.


LIS ;)
 
dnyanesh
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:58 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:51 pm

Can the the "retired" A380s be put to a good use in slot constrained airports/sectors in Asia?

And by that I mean, high-density domestic operations.
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 3751
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:54 pm

scbriml wrote:
DDR wrote:
Yea, actually it is. Knowledge is power. Try it.


Please enlighten us as to which of the World's top 100 airports can't handle an A380.

PHX can't. It can handle an A380 on an emergency basis, but it probably wouldn't even be able to handle a one-off charter. I'm sure there are several others.
 
WIederling
Posts: 9309
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:06 pm

DDR wrote:
Yea, actually it is. Knowledge is power. Try it.


Some mistake lore for knowledge :-)
Murphy is an optimist
 
CHI87LG
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:46 am

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:26 pm

a gesture of goodwill from Emirates to Airbus as its CEO departs is hardly the sign of a healthy, functioning aviation industry. what a disappointment the A380 has wound up being. aviation went the other direction. there will be a niche for it for some time - but it was not meant to be a niche aircraft, it was the killer app. it's a delightful airplane and its advances are critical. shame to see it wind up like this, even though it's a supposed cause for celebration that there's a new order.
 
User avatar
Jayafe
Posts: 1219
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:12 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:33 pm

CHI87LG wrote:
a gesture of goodwill from Emirates to Airbus as its CEO departs is hardly the sign of a healthy, functioning aviation industry.


That's the reason why they bought 100 birds and will keep ordering. To be able to have a mate for beers. Things you'll read....
 
fcogafa
Posts: 1199
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:37 pm

Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:04 pm

Gemuser wrote:
am unaware of any major projects that were required SOLELY FOR A380 operations, I'd be interested to hear of any that have actually been built BUT BUT BUT do not quote me any terminal modification projects or "A380 gate" projects as these are NOT required for the aircraft's operation.


I recall that Heathrow required extensive taxiway rebuilding to accommodate the A380, to the south of T3, in fact they had to chop the end of the J/K pier (as it was then) off to make space. Also for a long time Alpha north, north of T1, was unavailable for A380s until it was rebuilt in the last few years, and there were/are multiple other taxying restrictions

Similarly LAX needed taxiway changes.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 19

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos