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Jamake1
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:37 am

Bricktop wrote:
toxtethogrady wrote:
Because it's always a classy move to wrap an architectural icon in some meh architectural design work... :duck:

I think the banality of the building is actually a very nice canvas to the terminal.
[photoid][/photoid]

I totally agree. With all of the constraints at play, it actually works, with the former TWA structure remaining the focal point.
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varsity
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:59 pm

They will figure it out when they see that is who is checking in. Marketing can be refined over time. Novel concept that an airport hotel may actually prove popular with, you know, airline passengers.

I know for me, if I was from somewhere else and arrived late and tired, and I had a choice between an on-property hotel and taking some rando bus half an hour to a roadside place in Queens, I'd pay whatever they asked.
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:19 pm

stlgph wrote:
New Yorkers dont go on novelty. XL Nightclub is a fine example of what I see happening to this hotel.
Probably not New Yorkers, but I can see tourists and business travellers with early flights staying there to beat traffic. It all comes down to pricing, because as already mentioned earlier the TWA novelty will wear of soon. Considering the amount of tourists, even the TWA novelty can probably be stretched quite a bit.
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:03 pm

petertenthije wrote:
stlgph wrote:
New Yorkers dont go on novelty. XL Nightclub is a fine example of what I see happening to this hotel.
Probably not New Yorkers, but I can see tourists and business travellers with early flights staying there to beat traffic. It all comes down to pricing, because as already mentioned earlier the TWA novelty will wear of soon. Considering the amount of tourists, even the TWA novelty can probably be stretched quite a bit.


Said the same thing about the XL Nightclub. *THE* place for anyone gay within an hour of New York to go and *THE* place for any gay tourist within an hour of New York to go to.
The novelty wore off after 3 years and up went the tits. Same for The Darby. Down & Out. The Dream Uptown is pretty much a shell of what it was supposed to be. The novelties wore out. The locals didn't buy into it. The tourists only go to what's hot at the time.

As I said, I know this is an airline forum and this really hurts all your feelings, but the business plan for this thing SUCKS. I've read it. I've talked to these people. I've been to their open houses. The main focus isn't airline passengers. That's just a bonus. They're trying to be the next William Vale or Dream Hotel.

And unless there's a massive drastic change to their plan or price points, while all of you on here will say it's an amazing place and you'll be going asap, many of you won't be able to afford it. Unless you totally have no life and it's the only thing you do all year, which well.....

Until then, you all can rattle off whatever you want to make you sleep at night but until read the business plan, you're wrong. We'll just leave it at that. Call me when you all do.
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:13 pm

stlgph wrote:
petertenthije wrote:
stlgph wrote:
New Yorkers dont go on novelty. XL Nightclub is a fine example of what I see happening to this hotel.
Probably not New Yorkers, but I can see tourists and business travellers with early flights staying there to beat traffic. It all comes down to pricing, because as already mentioned earlier the TWA novelty will wear of soon. Considering the amount of tourists, even the TWA novelty can probably be stretched quite a bit.


Said the same thing about the XL Nightclub. *THE* place for anyone gay within an hour of New York to go and *THE* place for any gay tourist within an hour of New York to go to.
The novelty wore off after 3 years and up went the tits. Same for The Darby. Down & Out. The Dream Uptown is pretty much a shell of what it was supposed to be. The novelties wore out. The locals didn't buy into it. The tourists only go to what's hot at the time.

As I said, I know this is an airline forum and this really hurts all your feelings, but the business plan for this thing SUCKS. I've read it. I've talked to these people. I've been to their open houses. The main focus isn't airline passengers. That's just a bonus. They're trying to be the next William Vale or Dream Hotel.

And unless there's a massive drastic change to their plan or price points, while all of you on here will say it's an amazing place and you'll be going asap, many of you won't be able to afford it. Unless you totally have no life and it's the only thing you do all year, which well.....

Until then, you all can rattle off whatever you want to make you sleep at night but until read the business plan, you're wrong. We'll just leave it at that. Call me when you all do.


it really confuses me why you are wasting time arguing that it will fail. If it fails, it fails. It's not your money. If it succeeds, it will succeed.

Until then, what is wrong with people getting excited over some pictures?
 
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:16 pm

petertenthije wrote:
stlgph wrote:
New Yorkers dont go on novelty. XL Nightclub is a fine example of what I see happening to this hotel.
Probably not New Yorkers, but I can see tourists and business travellers with early flights staying there to beat traffic. It all comes down to pricing, because as already mentioned earlier the TWA novelty will wear of soon. Considering the amount of tourists, even the TWA novelty can probably be stretched quite a bit.


Plus, even if you don't know the history, you can't help but walk in there and be impressed. I think the public areas will get plenty of ancillary traffic from people with time to kill. Since T4 security was moved, there are no decent sit-down restaurants you can get to without a ticket (unless something has changed).
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:30 pm

stlgph wrote:
petertenthije wrote:
stlgph wrote:
New Yorkers dont go on novelty. XL Nightclub is a fine example of what I see happening to this hotel.
Probably not New Yorkers, but I can see tourists and business travellers with early flights staying there to beat traffic. It all comes down to pricing, because as already mentioned earlier the TWA novelty will wear of soon. Considering the amount of tourists, even the TWA novelty can probably be stretched quite a bit.


Said the same thing about the XL Nightclub. *THE* place for anyone gay within an hour of New York to go and *THE* place for any gay tourist within an hour of New York to go to.
The novelty wore off after 3 years and up went the tits. Same for The Darby. Down & Out. The Dream Uptown is pretty much a shell of what it was supposed to be. The novelties wore out. The locals didn't buy into it. The tourists only go to what's hot at the time.

As I said, I know this is an airline forum and this really hurts all your feelings, but the business plan for this thing SUCKS. I've read it. I've talked to these people. I've been to their open houses. The main focus isn't airline passengers. That's just a bonus. They're trying to be the next William Vale or Dream Hotel.

And unless there's a massive drastic change to their plan or price points, while all of you on here will say it's an amazing place and you'll be going asap, many of you won't be able to afford it. Unless you totally have no life and it's the only thing you do all year, which well.....

Until then, you all can rattle off whatever you want to make you sleep at night but until read the business plan, you're wrong. We'll just leave it at that. Call me when you all do.



No offense, share the story behind the bone you are picking or stop the hate.

This hotel isn't an aviation buffs wet dream, it is an airport hotel. Plain and simple. Something virtually every airport in nation has (except JFK and LGA) and something that is sorely needed at JFK.

Forget the TWA angle. That is just gravy.

Let's pretend it is a boxy, functional, Holiday Inn attached to an airport terminal...it will do well just because it can't not do well. And , if every other on-airport hotel in the nation is a guide, it will command a premium (whatever structure it is) over nearby airport hotels because it is actually on the airport. It is a common sense solution to a common sense problem that has evaded JFK for too long.
 
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:39 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
This hotel isn't an aviation buffs wet dream, it is an airport hotel. Plain and simple. Something virtually every airport in nation has (except JFK and LGA) and something that is sorely needed at JFK.

The problem is the owners/operators are not planning on pricing it like an airport hotel. Premium pricing based on location only goes so far, many people staying at airport hotels are only doing so for one night and thus usually not opposed to going to cheap off site hotels (they usually don't care if they are in crappy areas, they are not leaving the hotel except to get on the shuttle bus to take them back to the airport). Hence why you usually see few boutique luxury hotel options at airports (unless it is connected to something like a convention hall as well).

Give it a few years though and I'm sure the hotel will be under new management.
 
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:43 pm

Bricktop wrote:
toxtethogrady wrote:
Because it's always a classy move to wrap an architectural icon in some meh architectural design work... :duck:

I think the banality of the building is actually a very nice canvas to the terminal.


Indeed, I think that's the whole point--the hotel design and structure shouldn't take away from the stunning visuals of the Saarinen terminal.
 
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:45 pm

I'm not sure how you can compare this to a gay nightclub, which is a niche market which has been shrinking in the city. Most if not all the big gay-focused dance clubs are gone, they were attempting to dive into a diminishing market in a big way, and then damaged themselves by associating with a political group that runs odds to that community.

This is an on-property hotel in an airport. The nearest alternatives are inconvenient and apparently sketchy. Even if they misstep on their up-front marketing there should be demand. Expense account people are oblivious to anything but convenience.
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:17 pm

Just as a comparison based on a random price check, the Marriott at EWR, which is not new and not connected to the terminals and requires a bus ride, commands a premium of minimum $50/night compared to the hotels on 1/9, which are arguably more convenient to the airport than the ones "near" JFK.
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:27 pm

Just passed the hotel. They are up to level III on the north wing. And the old Idlewild lights are coming back for the front of the terminal, which is cool!
 
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:31 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Just passed the hotel. They are up to level III on the north wing. And the old Idlewild lights are coming back for the front of the terminal, which is cool!

Thanks for the update!

Usually the steel goes up pretty quick and the rest can seem to take a very long time.

However watching the steel fly is a pretty good sign that the project is moving forward.
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:32 pm

Believe it or not, no steel on this job. Cement all the way. 10 years ago, you never this type of construction it in NYC...but now you see it all the time!
 
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:56 pm

Page has been refreshed and makes reference to a "50,000 sq foot event and conference center" which they show as being right outside the departure lounge windows. Maybe that's the structure you mentioned? I didn't think they would want to do anything to further impede that view.
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:53 pm

Also, you can see construction update and photos at https://www.archdaily.com/885577/hotel-transformation-of-saarinens-twa-terminal-tops-out The north hotel building has been "topped out" as of yesterday.
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:27 pm

website with a couple of pics pics and diagrams I hadn't seen. https://www.twahotel.com/
 
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:40 am

Is this downtown lounge in one world trade center open?

https://www.twahotel.com/lounge

It is on the hotel's promo material. Note the total fail that they use a UAL uniform to market the TWA hotel concept. This is a competitive game and I hope their google research team is better than this. They could have used the TWA paper togas or the 1971 Valentinos - but nope!

As far as viability goes, as others have said airport hotels are doing very well. I am at MSP where they are building a very nice new intercontinental between concourses C and G, and the TWA hotel is basically in the same niche. For work, we use airport hotels for business meetings much, much more than we did 10 years go. I do not think high end gay bars are the right comparison, because there is a far more complex market for the TWA hotel that is not facing the contraction of the high end gay market. And my non high-end gay friends and I swear we are going to this!
 
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:33 pm

TW870 wrote:
Is this downtown lounge in one world trade center open?

https://www.twahotel.com/lounge

It is on the hotel's promo material. Note the total fail that they use a UAL uniform to market the TWA hotel concept. This is a competitive game and I hope their google research team is better than this. They could have used the TWA paper togas or the 1971 Valentinos - but nope!

As far as viability goes, as others have said airport hotels are doing very well. I am at MSP where they are building a very nice new intercontinental between concourses C and G, and the TWA hotel is basically in the same niche. For work, we use airport hotels for business meetings much, much more than we did 10 years go. I do not think high end gay bars are the right comparison, because there is a far more complex market for the TWA hotel that is not facing the contraction of the high end gay market. And my non high-end gay friends and I swear we are going to this!


Save me a barstool; I can't wait! My buddy and I used to drink in the Saarinen terminal all the time until they moved the security right to the door post TW0800.

I believe it is open, but "for events" meaning the public can't just walk in, per this article:

https://thepointsguy.com/2017/09/time-travel-at-the-twa-lounge/
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:24 pm

varsity wrote:
TW870 wrote:
And my non high-end gay friends and I swear we are going to this!

Save me a barstool; I can't wait! My buddy and I used to drink in the Saarinen terminal all the time until they moved the security right to the door post TW0800.

As you can probably tell from this thread, I'm in!

Will probably hop a B6 flight from BOS or ORH just to spend some time hanging out there.

I guess I'm becoming something of a Saarinen nerd. I was at T5 as a schoolkid in the 70s. Spent some time at IBM Research Yorktown in the 80s. Both made a big impression on me for reasons I didn't understand at the time. Just last week I was Ingalls Rink in New Haven. The recent PBS show on him with lots of interviews with his son was fascinating.

I'm so looking forward to checking out the place.

reality wrote:
website with a couple of pics pics and diagrams I hadn't seen. https://www.twahotel.com/

The thing I didn't realize that the plans make clear is the presence of the conference center between the tubes. It makes perfect sense to have that there, but was wondering if that will take the place of the Connie that was mentioned earlier.
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:37 pm

Revelation wrote:
varsity wrote:
TW870 wrote:
And my non high-end gay friends and I swear we are going to this!

Save me a barstool; I can't wait! My buddy and I used to drink in the Saarinen terminal all the time until they moved the security right to the door post TW0800.

As you can probably tell from this thread, I'm in!

Will probably hop a B6 flight from BOS or ORH just to spend some time hanging out there.

I guess I'm becoming something of a Saarinen nerd. I was at T5 as a schoolkid in the 70s. Spent some time at IBM Research Yorktown in the 80s. Both made a big impression on me for reasons I didn't understand at the time. Just last week I was Ingalls Rink in New Haven. The recent PBS show on him with lots of interviews with his son was fascinating.

I'm so looking forward to checking out the place.

reality wrote:
website with a couple of pics pics and diagrams I hadn't seen. https://www.twahotel.com/

The thing I didn't realize that the plans make clear is the presence of the conference center between the tubes. It makes perfect sense to have that there, but was wondering if that will take the place of the Connie that was mentioned earlier.


We should totally plan an a.net party there when it opens!

I'm wondering how accurate that diagram is, since they're not showing any kind of shape to that or the fitness center. I have to be out there in April so I if new pictures don't present themselves before that I will take some. I would be surprised and disappointed if they built something big right outside the main lounge windows and obscured the view.
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:47 pm

varsity wrote:
Revelation wrote:
varsity wrote:
Save me a barstool; I can't wait! My buddy and I used to drink in the Saarinen terminal all the time until they moved the security right to the door post TW0800.

As you can probably tell from this thread, I'm in!

Will probably hop a B6 flight from BOS or ORH just to spend some time hanging out there.

I guess I'm becoming something of a Saarinen nerd. I was at T5 as a schoolkid in the 70s. Spent some time at IBM Research Yorktown in the 80s. Both made a big impression on me for reasons I didn't understand at the time. Just last week I was Ingalls Rink in New Haven. The recent PBS show on him with lots of interviews with his son was fascinating.

I'm so looking forward to checking out the place.

reality wrote:
website with a couple of pics pics and diagrams I hadn't seen. https://www.twahotel.com/

The thing I didn't realize that the plans make clear is the presence of the conference center between the tubes. It makes perfect sense to have that there, but was wondering if that will take the place of the Connie that was mentioned earlier.


We should totally plan an a.net party there when it opens!

I'm wondering how accurate that diagram is, since they're not showing any kind of shape to that or the fitness center. I have to be out there in April so I if new pictures don't present themselves before that I will take some. I would be surprised and disappointed if they built something big right outside the main lounge windows and obscured the view.

I agree on all of the above.

When I wrote it made perfect sense to have a conference center I meant that from a business point of view. If they ruin the view from the lounge it makes no sense at all. Hopefully it's all underground or at least partially underground, and then they could have the Connie on its roof.
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:16 pm

Revelation wrote:
When I wrote it made perfect sense to have a conference center I meant that from a business point of view. If they ruin the view from the lounge it makes no sense at all. Hopefully it's all underground or at least partially underground, and then they could have the Connie on its roof.


Yea that would work. I just wonder how far you can dig there without hitting water. There was at one time an underground walkway between the satellites and the head house, so maybe it'd be okay.

Since the "main ballroom" is already framed out per the photos I shared, I am guessing that is on the ground floor of the north hotel block?
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:23 pm

catiii wrote:
toxtethogrady wrote:
Revelation wrote:
[img]
And a few renders of what it is supposed to end up looking like, that seem to be better than the earlier ones we had, IIRC:

Image

And:

Image



Because it's always a classy move to wrap an architectural icon in some meh architectural design work... :duck:


More classy than letting it sit unused and rot away...


Agreed!. Having seen the construction from the taxi-ways a few times, I feel it works and look forward to it.
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:46 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Believe it or not, no steel on this job. Cement all the way. 10 years ago, you never this type of construction it in NYC...but now you see it all the time!


Is that true? I had heard that as well, but then I read an article which said the construction team had all signed the top out steel...
 
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:28 pm

spacecadet wrote:
Gonna be a real coup for JetBlue once that's up... I'm sure there will be a lot of people who will choose to fly JetBlue just because they can get up in the morning and walk to the terminal. The convenience of having a hotel that's actually connected to the terminal really can't be overstated, and this is the only one at JFK.

Are the tubes actually going to be used? From what I remember, right now they terminate on the sidewalk on the wrong side of the road by T5. (I could be misremembering.)


If you can get in, past the overnighting or day rooming crews.
 
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:39 pm

stlgph wrote:
I'll just say it ... I'll be very surprised if this hotel is successful long term.


Define "Long Term"...

For the next 20-25 years, this will be THE go-to hotel for JFK outbound travelers, and most especially, Aircrews.
It is not over-sized, so as long as they plow some money back into it, to keep it updated, it will do well.
If the hotel management do what happened in Miami, and let the place deteriorate because they had no financial interest in the building, then it will not.
 
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:42 pm

jeffrey1970 wrote:
I hope they do not make it ridiculously expensive to stay there.


Do not count on that.
A captive market.
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:49 pm

stlgph wrote:
petertenthije wrote:
stlgph wrote:
New Yorkers dont go on novelty. XL Nightclub is a fine example of what I see happening to this hotel.
Probably not New Yorkers, but I can see tourists and business travellers with early flights staying there to beat traffic. It all comes down to pricing, because as already mentioned earlier the TWA novelty will wear of soon. Considering the amount of tourists, even the TWA novelty can probably be stretched quite a bit.


Said the same thing about the XL Nightclub. *THE* place for anyone gay within an hour of New York to go and *THE* place for any gay tourist within an hour of New York to go to.
The novelty wore off after 3 years and up went the tits. Same for The Darby. Down & Out. The Dream Uptown is pretty much a shell of what it was supposed to be. The novelties wore out. The locals didn't buy into it. The tourists only go to what's hot at the time.

As I said, I know this is an airline forum and this really hurts all your feelings, but the business plan for this thing SUCKS. I've read it. I've talked to these people. I've been to their open houses. The main focus isn't airline passengers. That's just a bonus. They're trying to be the next William Vale or Dream Hotel.

And unless there's a massive drastic change to their plan or price points, while all of you on here will say it's an amazing place and you'll be going asap, many of you won't be able to afford it. Unless you totally have no life and it's the only thing you do all year, which well.....

Until then, you all can rattle off whatever you want to make you sleep at night but until read the business plan, you're wrong. We'll just leave it at that. Call me when you all do.



When the novelty wears off, they'll just brand it with big red letters that say "Marriott", and command whatever price they want to.
 
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varsity
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:08 am

Did a drive by today on my way to a concert on LI. They have a lot of the cladding on the north building now and the south building is largely if not completely framed out. As of now it doesn't appear that there is any building in between the two tubes as the drawing suggests there would be, although they had sheeting up so you couldn't see very much. We fly out of there in April so I'll try again.

The thing that struck me is the hotel wings are REALLY CLOSE to the T5 arrival road. I hope they do a good job with the soundproofing in the windows (I'm sure this is being considered given the airport location) but I'd likely request a room facing the Saarinen building if I was ever to stay there anyway.
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varsity
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:24 pm

Revelation wrote:
varsity wrote:
Revelation wrote:
As you can probably tell from this thread, I'm in!

Will probably hop a B6 flight from BOS or ORH just to spend some time hanging out there.

I guess I'm becoming something of a Saarinen nerd. I was at T5 as a schoolkid in the 70s. Spent some time at IBM Research Yorktown in the 80s. Both made a big impression on me for reasons I didn't understand at the time. Just last week I was Ingalls Rink in New Haven. The recent PBS show on him with lots of interviews with his son was fascinating.

I'm so looking forward to checking out the place.


The thing I didn't realize that the plans make clear is the presence of the conference center between the tubes. It makes perfect sense to have that there, but was wondering if that will take the place of the Connie that was mentioned earlier.


We should totally plan an a.net party there when it opens!

I'm wondering how accurate that diagram is, since they're not showing any kind of shape to that or the fitness center. I have to be out there in April so I if new pictures don't present themselves before that I will take some. I would be surprised and disappointed if they built something big right outside the main lounge windows and obscured the view.

I agree on all of the above.

When I wrote it made perfect sense to have a conference center I meant that from a business point of view. If they ruin the view from the lounge it makes no sense at all. Hopefully it's all underground or at least partially underground, and then they could have the Connie on its roof.


If you look closely at the drawing under the section called "The Plan", there is the outline of a vintage-shaped plane in that central area. So hopefully that is still part of the plan!
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:36 pm

The Curtain Wall on the two new wings is UGLY!

Reminds me of 1980s, non descript construction. Very similar in appearance to the Hilton at ORD...but that was built decades ago!

I understand the reasoning: not to distract from the original structure. But I fear 20 years from now people will look at this addition with disdain.

There are buildings in Manhattan, like the Hearst Building, that incorporated historic structures into something new and spectacular. The TWA Hotel exterior will not be in this category. It may fall into the Worldport category...a functional addition to a cool building.
 
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varsity
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:29 pm

Disappointing, but some consolation is that due to the way the place is situated, you're not going to be spending a lot of time outside looking at it. The dual roadways on the outside are bustling with traffic heading in and out of T5, and the ground floor of the Saarinen building, unless they heavily modify it, only has windows in the central area between the two hotel blocks. The only place you'll really be forced to look at it will be in the former lounge and bar/cafe areas on the second floor, where it will unfortunately further block an already constrained view.

Like a modern cruise ship this thing is designed for the experience inside without much thought to external aesthetics. And, let's be real, it's an airport. Other than whatever else ends up happening in that central area where the Connie is supposed to sit, I can't see people relaxing outside at least on the ground. The pool and observation deck will be on top of one of the hotel blocks, so their look won't factor in.
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:12 am

varsity wrote:
If you look closely at the drawing under the section called "The Plan", there is the outline of a vintage-shaped plane in that central area. So hopefully that is still part of the plan!


Here is some info:

http://www.conniesurvivors.com/1-connie_news.htm#FEB19
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:11 am

DL_Mech wrote:
varsity wrote:
If you look closely at the drawing under the section called "The Plan", there is the outline of a vintage-shaped plane in that central area. So hopefully that is still part of the plan!


Here is some info:

http://www.conniesurvivors.com/1-connie_news.htm#FEB19


Such good news that another one of the Auburn, Maine Starliners is going to live on. While I wish it could fly, and at least had actual engines rather than empty cowlings, at least the hull won't be scrapped. The good news is that the cocktail bar is going to use the regular passengers doors of the L1649 rather than adding on an ugly, oversize entry way which you often see in aircraft restaurant conversions.
 
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millionsofmiles
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:21 am

jfklganyc wrote:
The Curtain Wall on the two new wings is UGLY!

Reminds me of 1980s, non descript construction. Very similar in appearance to the Hilton at ORD...but that was built decades ago!

I understand the reasoning: not to distract from the original structure. But I fear 20 years from now people will look at this addition with disdain.

There are buildings in Manhattan, like the Hearst Building, that incorporated historic structures into something new and spectacular. The TWA Hotel exterior will not be in this category. It may fall into the Worldport category...a functional addition to a cool building.


That's exactly when I saw the two wings. Bland and uninspiring. Reminded me immediately of the ORD Hilton.
 
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varsity
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:13 am

Excellent news, about the plane. The hotel blocks may be boring, but the view from the rooms sure won't be!
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:07 pm

I agree. I'd love to see any photo updates anyone has. It's been a while since our last ones.
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:54 pm

I wonder how the observation deck would work out here... It looks like the TWA Hotel is about the same level as the T5 garage and since the T5 terminal is blocking the view for 31s, I'd guess that the observation deck would be facing 22s/4s...
 
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:56 pm

Revelation wrote:
I agree. I'd love to see any photo updates anyone has. It's been a while since our last ones.


I'm flying out of T5 early next month and will try to get there in daylight so I can get pictures. If the roof terrace by T5i is open I'm thinking that will be a good spot, but also the skywalk from the AirTrain station. I tried to do this for you guys a few weeks ago but you can't see much without parking.
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:34 pm

varsity wrote:
Revelation wrote:
I agree. I'd love to see any photo updates anyone has. It's been a while since our last ones.


I'm flying out of T5 early next month and will try to get there in daylight so I can get pictures. If the roof terrace by T5i is open I'm thinking that will be a good spot, but also the skywalk from the AirTrain station. I tried to do this for you guys a few weeks ago but you can't see much without parking.

Thank you for the efforts. I agree, trying to get photos without parking often isn't worth the effort. Hopefully you or someone else can get some updated photos in the near future.
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:03 pm

Aeroplasma wrote:
I wonder how the observation deck would work out here... It looks like the TWA Hotel is about the same level as the T5 garage and since the T5 terminal is blocking the view for 31s, I'd guess that the observation deck would be facing 22s/4s...


I wonder if the fact that the hotel is closer to T5 will affect the sight lines. Also, from that point you can look northeast through the gap between T5 & T7 at least until T6 happens, assuming it does.
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wjcandee
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:10 am

stlgph wrote:
The business plan for this thing SUCKS. I've read it. I've talked to these people. I've been to their open houses. The main focus isn't airline passengers. That's just a bonus. They're trying to be the next William Vale or Dream Hotel.


Don't worry. The business plan is just to get the first set of suckers to invest. The fact is that they're getting people to pour money into this thing. And the only way to do it is to say that they have some magic sauce that makes all the comparables that they should be looking at irrelevant. So they're gonna build something quality and solid and luxe. And when the $700/night traffic doesn't materialize at the speed that they're hoping for, the people who buy it in bankruptcy will end up with a solid property to operate at a price that allows them to sell rooms at a rate that makes them money. The key is to get the iconic, quality structure built and open. And an owner or two down the line will be able to profit from it and maintain it.

The Four Seasons on 57th was built for $1 million a key starting around 1991. The six Japanese banks that financed it thought that was a good deal for an amazing building. The guy who owned Ty toys (think Beanie Babies) bought it for $100,000 per key a couple of years later. I saw the pro forma financials for the original deal and just laughed my ass off. More than $550/night in the year it opened (1993) was insane and unobtainable. Now, that's a Priceline rate there, but then, nooooo. It has turned out to be an amazing investment for the guy who got it for 100K per key -- because he was making money at a market rate for a 5* hotel in that location in Manhattan once the market turned around in the second half of the 90s. (Nerd alert: One of my favorite things in the building, because I'm a geek, is that it has Fujitec elevators, which are incredible, but never really caught on in the US, I guess because they are expensive. Their heyday in the US was in the 90s and very-early 2000s. We had 'em in my office building in Dallas, and they show what a high-rise elevator should function like. The only other building I noticed them in in NYC was a now-replaced-with-a-different-tenant Japanese department store on 5th Ave.)
 
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:12 pm

As promised, here are some additional photos of the hotel progress and some random aircraft, taken Wednesday.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/shiftynj/71Jb4b
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:19 pm

varsity wrote:
As promised, here are some additional photos of the hotel progress and some random aircraft, taken Wednesday.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/shiftynj/71Jb4b

Wow, I love it!

Thank you for posting!
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reality
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:25 pm

Thanks for the photos. The new building fits into the site well--if a little tight. Its minimal/modern design is a nice back drop to the Saarinen building.

Here's an update on the twa hotel website that shows what the rooms will look like. https://www.twahotel.com/rooms

"Ultra-Quiet Windows with Soaring Views

"TWA Hotel’s glass curtain wall by Fabbrica — the second-thickest in the world after the wall at the U.S. Embassy in London — is seven panes and 4½ inches thick. The glass’ Sound Transmission Class (STC) rating of nearly 50 ensures the floor-to-ceiling, full-width windows cancel runway noise."
 
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:28 am

reality wrote:
Thanks for the photos. The new building fits into the site well--if a little tight. Its minimal/modern design is a nice back drop to the Saarinen building.

Here's an update on the twa hotel website that shows what the rooms will look like. https://www.twahotel.com/rooms

"Ultra-Quiet Windows with Soaring Views

"TWA Hotel’s glass curtain wall by Fabbrica — the second-thickest in the world after the wall at the U.S. Embassy in London — is seven panes and 4½ inches thick. The glass’ Sound Transmission Class (STC) rating of nearly 50 ensures the floor-to-ceiling, full-width windows cancel runway noise."

My favorite part:

An authentic Saarinen Womb Chair, upholstered in red Knoll fabric, sits beside a 16-inch round white Saarinen Pedestal tulip side table where guests can make unlimited free international and local calls on a 1950s Western Electric 500 phone retrofitted with a pulse to tone converter by Old Phone Works.

Not to be too cynical, but something tells me it's probably best to get there pretty soon after opening before a bunch of the things they're doing to try to give it the feel of the 60s get trashed.
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av8orwalk
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Thu May 17, 2018 4:01 pm

Here’s a few photos of the TWA Hotel progress I snapped today as I left the AirTrain and headed into T5.

https://imgur.com/a/M18SgJi
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Thu May 17, 2018 4:59 pm

av8orwalk wrote:
Here’s a few photos of the TWA Hotel progress I snapped today as I left the AirTrain and headed into T5.

https://imgur.com/a/M18SgJi

Thanks so much -- I love it!
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evank516
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Re: Progress On JFK TWA Terminal 5 Hotel Project (PICS)

Thu May 17, 2018 5:26 pm

How is the roadway access to T5? Are there any detours or anything I need to be aware of? I'm flying out of T5 next week.

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