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lhrsfosyd
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:57 pm

Slot congested airports

Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:16 pm

What are the main slot congested airports in the world? We all heard of millions of pounds being paid for slots at LHR but just how widespread is this practice?
 
nomorerjs
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Re: Slot congested airports

Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:08 pm

LHR, DCA, JFK, and DCA are slot controlled. Not sure how AMS, BJS, FRA, PVG are handled.
 
Beatyair
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Re: Slot congested airports

Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:11 pm

Lufthansa bought the A380 because they said airport slots are hard to get at many airports, so take all the passengers on one flight instead of several.
 
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kgaiflyer
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Re: Slot congested airports

Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:39 pm

According to Wikipedia, there are 177 slot-controlled airports in the world. Some - like in the Greek Isles - are slot-controlled only in peak holiday periods. Trust me - I'm as surprised as you are.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_s ... airports-1
 
Kilopond
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Re: Slot congested airports

Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:05 pm

Yet, as far as the market value of slot pairs is concerned, Heathrow is second to none worldwide.

Nevertheless, there are many other airports that operate at runway capacity limits. Milan Linate LIN, Paris Orly ORY - to mention a few - do not have any unused slots.

There are even more airports that still have free slots during mid-day off-hours but are absolutely full during morning and evening rush hours. Zurich ZRH and the likes.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Slot congested airports

Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:13 pm

The USA has three slot-restricted airports:

JFK (maximum 83 movements per hour)
LGA (maximum 71 movements per hour)
DCA (maximum 62 movements per hour)

EWR was slot restricted until last year.
 
AWACSooner
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Re: Slot congested airports

Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:43 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
The USA has three slot-restricted airports:

JFK (maximum 83 movements per hour)
LGA (maximum 71 movements per hour)
DCA (maximum 62 movements per hour)

EWR was slot restricted until last year.

You missed LGB and SNA
 
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JBusworth
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:55 am

Re: Slot congested airports

Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:00 pm

I certantly know that SYD is very slot congested with only 80 movemnets allowed per hours and only between 6am and 11pm. For airlines like Qantas or Virgin Austrailia to start new routes, a number of local regional flights are often cancelled. We loose many domestic frequencies over summer because of lack of slots, in fact one year Virgin wanted operate 14% more flights than slots avalible.

I'm pretty sure most of the other major Australian capitals are slot restricted as well, its why we have lots of A330s on domestic routes.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Slot congested airports

Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:27 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
The USA has three slot-restricted airports:

JFK (maximum 83 movements per hour)
LGA (maximum 71 movements per hour)
DCA (maximum 62 movements per hour)

EWR was slot restricted until last year.

You missed LGB and SNA

Should have clarified to by the FAA.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Slot congested airports

Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:44 am

Seems like the only London airport that is not slot controlled is Southend, all other London airports are slot controlled. So when an airline wants to serve London and they can't get slots on any other airport they can always fly to Southend.
 
vfw614
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Re: Slot congested airports

Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:46 am

Slot-controlled is not the same as slot-constrained/congested.
 
dc10lover
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Re: Slot congested airports

Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:35 am

AWACSooner wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
The USA has three slot-restricted airports:

JFK (maximum 83 movements per hour)
LGA (maximum 71 movements per hour)
DCA (maximum 62 movements per hour)

EWR was slot restricted until last year.

You missed LGB and SNA

So if JetBlue wants to expand LGB they will have to start service to Ontario International Airport. (Hope)
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
AWACSooner
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Re: Slot congested airports

Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:31 am

Pretty much...especially with WN eager to gobble up any new slots that come available at LGB
 
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kitplane01
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Re: Slot congested airports

Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:58 am

AWACSooner wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
The USA has three slot-restricted airports:

JFK (maximum 83 movements per hour)
LGA (maximum 71 movements per hour)
DCA (maximum 62 movements per hour)

EWR was slot restricted until last year.

You missed LGB and SNA


I think that's only half true sort of maybe. Quoting from the FAA website "the FAA monitors scheduled air traffic demand at other airports and has a formal schedule review and approval process at several airports. Those airports are Chicago O'Hare International Airport (ORD), Los Angeles International Airport (LAX), Newark Liberty International Airport (EWR), and San Francisco International Airport (SFO). ... At EWR, JFK, LAX, ORD, and SFO, the FAA generally follows the International Air Transport Association (IATA) Worldwide Slot Guides (WSG)".

What is the difference between "slot controlled" and "formal schedule review and approval ... following the IATA Worldwide slot guidelines"? They seem like the same thing.
 
drdisque
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Re: Slot congested airports

Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:16 pm

Slot Controlled means that airlines have actual defined slots that they control. Formal Schedule Review just means that the FAA reviews the airlines' schedules to ensure that they are feasible given ATC and airfield limitations, and if they aren't, they work with the airlines' Flight Ops departments to fix them.
 
smi0006
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Re: Slot congested airports

Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:24 pm

vfw614 wrote:
Slot-controlled is not the same as slot-constrained/congested.


I believe LHR is the only airport where slots are sold. IATA facilitates most slot bidding and swapping. Slots are based not only on runway capacity but also terminal capacity. And there are set windows for slot bidding, swapping and then acceptance.

I believe IATA slot confrence maybe on this week in Madrid - below links have more info. Interesting IATA and non IATA airlines participate. For those interested in the process the IATA slot documents are below.

http://www.iata.org/policy/slots/Docume ... nglish.pdf

http://www.iata.org/policy/slots/Pages/index.aspx?tab=3

http://www.iata.org/events/sc141/Pages/index.aspx
 
Draken21fx
Posts: 241
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Re: Slot congested airports

Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:04 pm

kgaiflyer wrote:
According to Wikipedia, there are 177 slot-controlled airports in the world. Some - like in the Greek Isles - are slot-controlled only in peak holiday periods. Trust me - I'm as surprised as you are.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_s ... airports-1


Hmmmmm I think it has to do with Fraport acquiring all of those airports and trying to sort the mess out. The problem with the Greek isles is that you have airports like JMK which are basically dead in the winter, as the whole island has 10k residents, and in the summer you get the majority of 1mil arrivals.

No space/not worth to expand/not enough gates/lots of private jet traffic but you have to manage the increased traffic somehow in the summertime. Seasonal airports in Spain do have the issue as the islands are much bigger, much more mature and with much more traffic throughout the year.
 
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kitplane01
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Re: Slot congested airports

Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:33 pm

drdisque wrote:
Slot Controlled means that airlines have actual defined slots that they control. Formal Schedule Review just means that the FAA reviews the airlines' schedules to ensure that they are feasible given ATC and airfield limitations, and if they aren't, they work with the airlines' Flight Ops departments to fix them.


Is this a distinction without a difference?

In either case, any airline that wants to start a new flight to the airport cannot, unless some other airline withdraws a flight.[1] Beyond terminology, what's the difference? (honestly confused, not trying to be snarky)




[1] - Depending on time, date, etc.
 
drdisque
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Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:57 am

Re: Slot congested airports

Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:50 pm

You are incorrect.

If say, an airline wants to add flights to ORD or LAX they don't need permission to do so. They don't need to formally acquire any slot pair or anything like that. If it's a new entrant with just 1 or 2 flights, the FAA doesn't even bother looking at their schedule since it will have no impact on operations.

Also, the FAA slot controlled airports (DCA, LGA, JFK) have HARD CAPS on operations per hour. ORD, SFO, LAX, and EWR are not hard caps. The airfield capacity for each of those airports is a floating number based on history and can be on occasion exceeded.

Here are the hard differences:
1. Airlines at ORD, SFO, LAX, EWR (which hensceforth I will call OSLE) don't have to "slot squat" during slow seasons in order to keep their operations at the maximum during peak season.
2. The FAA will allow new entrants at OSLE with no requirements other than the obvious ones (that they obtain the necessary space in the terminal).
3. Airlines at OSLE can add flights at any time when the airport is below its maximum capacity and make adjustments to their schedule as they desire as long as operations stay under the hourly cap and are reasonably spaced. rather than being tied to specific arrival and departure slots which they "own".
4. Airlines at OSLE have no asset of value which they can trade regarding their operations alone. They can't trade "ORD slots" because there is no such thing, while they can trade, lease, or sell LGA or DCA slots. That's why when divestments at ORD were required for the AA/US merger it was gates.
 
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Slash787
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Re: Slot congested airports

Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:21 pm

Bombay is slot congested cause of only one active runway.

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