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Midwestindy
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Re: Kansas City passes new terminal for MCI Airport

Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:59 am

LuvMoreMCI wrote:
New terminal vote passes 70 to 30%. Southwest donations help support passage. I wonder when terminal is complete, will they restore flights to RDU. SMF, PVD they had in the 90s when it was an unofficial focus city for WN during the MDW rebuild.



The terminal completion is so far down the line that it is too early to tell...
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BlatantEcho
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Re: MCI New Terminal Vote

Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:04 pm

Congrats to MCI - that terminal was the worst terminal of any airport I've been to in the the USA.
And I'd argue one of the worst in the world I've seen.

Kansa City is such a great city, it deserves much better. Sounds like they're going to get it.
Nice!
 
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iahcsr
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Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:32 pm

Are there any images of how the new terminal will overlay the old?
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TWFlyGuy
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Re: MCI New Terminal Vote

Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:33 pm

LuvMoreMCI wrote:
Glad to see the terminal pass. What is causing the decrease in flights and passengers to the area? Metro area is growing much faster than STL area, but is lagging STL in flights.


In comparing to STL keep in mind that while growth is much stronger in KC, St Louis is still a bigger city overall. Also, STL terminal for WN is much more conducive to connections than MCI which helps drive some of the additional flying.
 
evank516
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Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:41 pm

Kansas City came to their senses, finally! Glad to see this pass.
 
chalupas54
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Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:58 pm

Congrats, Kansas City! Very much needed.

However, many of you are getting ahead of yourselves.

New terminal does not equal new flights.
Not a single airline ever came close to saying MCI would get new flights for a new terminal. They simply want a “better experience”.

With St Louis, Midway, Love, and Denver all nearby, the likelihood of a WN focus city at MCI is highly unlikely if not improbable.

Keep this in mind also. The costs to airlines will increase dramatically. This could have mixed results.

Finally, regarding the Kansas City market. The market is underperforming. Airlines are not cutting routes and frequencies because of the facility. They cannot sell enough seats.

It will be interesting to see how this progresses. Again, the new terminal was needed. But it won’t bring a hub.


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TWFlyGuy
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Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:21 pm

chalupas54 wrote:
Congrats, Kansas City! Very much needed.

However, many of you are getting ahead of yourselves.

New terminal does not equal new flights.
Not a single airline ever came close to saying MCI would get new flights for a new terminal. They simply want a “better experience”.

With St Louis, Midway, Love, and Denver all nearby, the likelihood of a WN focus city at MCI is highly unlikely if not improbable.

Keep this in mind also. The costs to airlines will increase dramatically. This could have mixed results.

Finally, regarding the Kansas City market. The market is underperforming. Airlines are not cutting routes and frequencies because of the facility. They cannot sell enough seats.

It will be interesting to see how this progresses. Again, the new terminal was needed. But it won’t bring a hub.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


MCI won't become a hub but if you consider CPE of MCI vs the other large WN stations you noted it is cheaper than all but DAL. So, there could be an incremental shift of connecting people in MCI vs others especially for tickets in lower fare buckets to maximize margin. That would not be unheard of and could add to MCI's revenue and potentially drive an incremental increase in flights. Also, with presumably increased revenue from concessions you could see the airlines seek ways to lower costs even further through revenue sharing similar to CLT's arrangement. Lastly, there could be increased opportunities for additional services from ULCCs given more optimized gate utilization.
 
chalupas54
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Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:26 pm

That’s what I️ think MCI will probably see. An expansion from Frontier, Allegiant or Spirit seems most likely. Then again, if an expansion happens at all.


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chalupas54
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Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:27 pm

That’s what I️ think MCI will probably see. An expansion from Frontier, Allegiant or Spirit seems most likely. Then again, if an expansion happens at all.


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Jshank83
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Re: MCI New Terminal Vote

Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:29 pm

ctrabs0114 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Southwest has announced plans to serve Cancun nonstop from CMH, IND, and RDU, all of which are much smaller Southwest Airlines stations than MCI is, but Southwest has not announced any plans to serve CUN nonstop from MCI. Southwest adding MCI-CUN nonstop service could possibly happen if the new terminal gets built at MCI.


MCI also already has 3 airlines running that route. That might have something to do with WN not running it from MCI.


Yet, WN recently announced seasonal weekly (Saturday) PIT-CUN service starting next June, even though AA, DL and two tour operators already operate that route. It's not as though there isn't a precedent for WN to potentially add an MCI-CUN route in the future based on their moves in PIT.


Of course it is possible but 4 carriers on that route seem like a bit of overkill, in my opinion (that doesn't count for much). Most cities that they added CUN to don't have that many carriers on it. If they do start it, I would think someone else would probably drop it. I am curious to see if that also happens in PIT now.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:29 pm

TWFlyGuy wrote:
chalupas54 wrote:
Congrats, Kansas City! Very much needed.

However, many of you are getting ahead of yourselves.

New terminal does not equal new flights.
Not a single airline ever came close to saying MCI would get new flights for a new terminal. They simply want a “better experience”.

With St Louis, Midway, Love, and Denver all nearby, the likelihood of a WN focus city at MCI is highly unlikely if not improbable.

Keep this in mind also. The costs to airlines will increase dramatically. This could have mixed results.

Finally, regarding the Kansas City market. The market is underperforming. Airlines are not cutting routes and frequencies because of the facility. They cannot sell enough seats.

It will be interesting to see how this progresses. Again, the new terminal was needed. But it won’t bring a hub.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


MCI won't become a hub but if you consider CPE of MCI vs the other large WN stations you noted it is cheaper than all but DAL. So, there could be an incremental shift of connecting people in MCI vs others especially for tickets in lower fare buckets to maximize margin. That would not be unheard of and could add to MCI's revenue and potentially drive an incremental increase in flights. Also, with presumably increased revenue from concessions you could see the airlines seek ways to lower costs even further through revenue sharing similar to CLT's arrangement. Lastly, there could be increased opportunities for additional services from ULCCs given more optimized gate utilization.


Don't you think the fact that MCI's CPE is so low might have something to do with the fact that they have hardly renovated the terminal in the past 40 years?
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sw733
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Re: MCI New Terminal Vote

Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:48 pm

TWFlyGuy wrote:
LuvMoreMCI wrote:
Glad to see the terminal pass. What is causing the decrease in flights and passengers to the area? Metro area is growing much faster than STL area, but is lagging STL in flights.


In comparing to STL keep in mind that while growth is much stronger in KC, St Louis is still a bigger city overall. Also, STL terminal for WN is much more conducive to connections than MCI which helps drive some of the additional flying.


Yeah, KC vs STL is interesting...Kansas City is the largest city in Missouri, but the St. Louis metro area (MO/IL) is bigger than the KC metro area (MO/KS).
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:17 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:
chalupas54 wrote:
Congrats, Kansas City! Very much needed.

However, many of you are getting ahead of yourselves.

New terminal does not equal new flights.
Not a single airline ever came close to saying MCI would get new flights for a new terminal. They simply want a “better experience”.

With St Louis, Midway, Love, and Denver all nearby, the likelihood of a WN focus city at MCI is highly unlikely if not improbable.

Keep this in mind also. The costs to airlines will increase dramatically. This could have mixed results.

Finally, regarding the Kansas City market. The market is underperforming. Airlines are not cutting routes and frequencies because of the facility. They cannot sell enough seats.

It will be interesting to see how this progresses. Again, the new terminal was needed. But it won’t bring a hub.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


MCI won't become a hub but if you consider CPE of MCI vs the other large WN stations you noted it is cheaper than all but DAL. So, there could be an incremental shift of connecting people in MCI vs others especially for tickets in lower fare buckets to maximize margin. That would not be unheard of and could add to MCI's revenue and potentially drive an incremental increase in flights. Also, with presumably increased revenue from concessions you could see the airlines seek ways to lower costs even further through revenue sharing similar to CLT's arrangement. Lastly, there could be increased opportunities for additional services from ULCCs given more optimized gate utilization.


Don't you think the fact that MCI's CPE is so low might have something to do with the fact that they have hardly renovated the terminal in the past 40 years?


Fair but if you look at the CPE's of the cities listed:

MCI- $6.60
STL - $11.99
MDW - $7.61
DAL - $4.26
DEN - $10.80

I don't see the new terminal driving it to STL or DEN levels but the estimate has been that it will add $2.50 per ticket. So let's use that...now you're at $9.10. DAL is pretty much bursting at the seems so you don't migrate people there. You're now higher than MDW but still lower than STL & DEN. So, you could flow more connections via MCI and grow local O&D in MDW. If it goes beyond the $250, then it could become a wash. But again, if you factor in added concession revenues that helps a bunch.
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: MCI New Terminal Vote

Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:20 pm

sw733 wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:
LuvMoreMCI wrote:
Glad to see the terminal pass. What is causing the decrease in flights and passengers to the area? Metro area is growing much faster than STL area, but is lagging STL in flights.


In comparing to STL keep in mind that while growth is much stronger in KC, St Louis is still a bigger city overall. Also, STL terminal for WN is much more conducive to connections than MCI which helps drive some of the additional flying.


Yeah, KC vs STL is interesting...Kansas City is the largest city in Missouri, but the St. Louis metro area (MO/IL) is bigger than the KC metro area (MO/KS).


All that really matters is the metro population since that is who the airport serves. Given that, STL is about 2.8MM whereas KC is about 2.1MM. Even with essentially no growth in St Louis metro vs 5% in KC metro, it's going to take a while to catch up and to be honest, I think St Louis and the surrounding counties will soon figure out how to play nice together and think regionally to attract more business. I don't think they will go bankrupt but could see something similar to what we are seeing in Detroit where the city is becoming more popular now that finances are in order.
 
blhp68
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Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:22 pm

Here is the site put together by the developer: https://www.kci-edgemoor.com/

City and developer still need to finalize the MOU. If all goes as planned they expect to break ground in the Summer of 2018.
 
blhp68
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Re: MCI New Terminal Vote

Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:25 pm

TWFlyGuy wrote:
sw733 wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:

In comparing to STL keep in mind that while growth is much stronger in KC, St Louis is still a bigger city overall. Also, STL terminal for WN is much more conducive to connections than MCI which helps drive some of the additional flying.


Yeah, KC vs STL is interesting...Kansas City is the largest city in Missouri, but the St. Louis metro area (MO/IL) is bigger than the KC metro area (MO/KS).


All that really matters is the metro population since that is who the airport serves. Given that, STL is about 2.8MM whereas KC is about 2.1MM. Even with essentially no growth in St Louis metro vs 5% in KC metro, it's going to take a while to catch up and to be honest, I think St Louis and the surrounding counties will soon figure out how to play nice together and think regionally to attract more business. I don't think they will go bankrupt but could see something similar to what we are seeing in Detroit where the city is becoming more popular now that finances are in order.


At the end of the day, those who live in the KC area can now be proud of a new facility. We all know that new terminal doesn't equal new flights. I am just happy that I don't have to deal with the horseshoe design with 36 ft of secure holding space with people spilling over one another.
 
sw733
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Re: MCI New Terminal Vote

Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:29 pm

blhp68 wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:
sw733 wrote:

Yeah, KC vs STL is interesting...Kansas City is the largest city in Missouri, but the St. Louis metro area (MO/IL) is bigger than the KC metro area (MO/KS).


All that really matters is the metro population since that is who the airport serves. Given that, STL is about 2.8MM whereas KC is about 2.1MM. Even with essentially no growth in St Louis metro vs 5% in KC metro, it's going to take a while to catch up and to be honest, I think St Louis and the surrounding counties will soon figure out how to play nice together and think regionally to attract more business. I don't think they will go bankrupt but could see something similar to what we are seeing in Detroit where the city is becoming more popular now that finances are in order.


At the end of the day, those who live in the KC area can now be proud of a new facility. We all know that new terminal doesn't equal new flights. I am just happy that I don't have to deal with the horseshoe design with 36 ft of secure holding space with people spilling over one another.


As long as MCI doesn't go the way of Brandenburg ;)
 
blhp68
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Re: MCI New Terminal Vote

Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:38 pm

sw733 wrote:
blhp68 wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:

All that really matters is the metro population since that is who the airport serves. Given that, STL is about 2.8MM whereas KC is about 2.1MM. Even with essentially no growth in St Louis metro vs 5% in KC metro, it's going to take a while to catch up and to be honest, I think St Louis and the surrounding counties will soon figure out how to play nice together and think regionally to attract more business. I don't think they will go bankrupt but could see something similar to what we are seeing in Detroit where the city is becoming more popular now that finances are in order.


At the end of the day, those who live in the KC area can now be proud of a new facility. We all know that new terminal doesn't equal new flights. I am just happy that I don't have to deal with the horseshoe design with 36 ft of secure holding space with people spilling over one another.


As long as MCI doesn't go the way of Brandenburg ;)


I know, fingers crossed. What a hot mess that has been...
 
N212R
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Re: Kansas City passes new terminal for MCI Airport

Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:46 pm

LuvMoreMCI wrote:
Southwest donations help support passage.


Who can't resist an obvious political euphemism? How much local media advertising did Southwest's "donations" pay for? Participatory democracy and cronyism, a match made in electorial heaven.
 
TerminalD
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Re: Kansas City passes new terminal for MCI Airport

Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:49 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
LuvMoreMCI wrote:
New terminal vote passes 70 to 30%. Southwest donations help support passage. I wonder when terminal is complete, will they restore flights to RDU. SMF, PVD they had in the 90s when it was an unofficial focus city for WN during the MDW rebuild.



The terminal completion is so far down the line that it is too early to tell...

Southwest wouldn't have spent the money unless they planned to expand in a way the current terminal prevented. I.E. connections
 
RJNUT
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Re: Kansas City passes new terminal for MCI Airport

Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:02 pm

N212R wrote:
LuvMoreMCI wrote:
Southwest donations help support passage.


Who can't resist an obvious political euphemism? How much local media advertising did Southwest's "donations" pay for? Participatory democracy and cronyism, a match made in electorial heaven.


This actually passed in spite of much perceived cronyism. My ex firm lost out on the bid due to such a perception. Instead a firm NOT located in KC won the bid . And the main local media did as much as possible to confuse the issues with half truths and innuendo. No, this victory was won solely on informed voters getting out the vote. No shenanigans can be blamed here
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Kansas City passes new terminal for MCI Airport

Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:06 pm

TerminalD wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
LuvMoreMCI wrote:
New terminal vote passes 70 to 30%. Southwest donations help support passage. I wonder when terminal is complete, will they restore flights to RDU. SMF, PVD they had in the 90s when it was an unofficial focus city for WN during the MDW rebuild.



The terminal completion is so far down the line that it is too early to tell...

Southwest wouldn't have spent the money unless they planned to expand in a way the current terminal prevented. I.E. connections



Huh? Southwest isn't spending additional money, they are paying for the new terminal by using it just like every other airline is(landing fees, gate fees, e.t.c).... It isn't like they put down 1.1 billion to build the new terminal. Southwest will bear the most cost, however, that is just because proportionally they are the largest carrier...

Also despite what WN says, they are still sending a decent amount of connections through MCI already (I know this because I have seen the Origin and Destination Survey).
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Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:25 pm

Congrats to KC and MCI!
From what I know the new terminal be built where A is currently. Is this still the basic/expected design:
Image

Tugg
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Varsity1
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Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:31 pm

I hope we get some more retail in there too.
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EA CO AS
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Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:44 pm

EA had shown conclusively that MCI can be a great mid-continent hub, particularly for a carrier looking to establish one. If their new facility can support it and their CPE remains low, it’s a question of when it becomes a connecting hub, not if.
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TWFlyGuy
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Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:47 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
EA had shown conclusively that MCI can be a great mid-continent hub, particularly for a carrier looking to establish one. If their new facility can support it and their CPE remains low, it’s a question of when it becomes a connecting hub, not if.


That was decades ago when fuel prices were much different. With only 2.1MM residents there isn't enough traffic for a full blown hub at their current CPE. I could see maybe some additional flights from the ULCCs and maybe B6 and AS. Quite frankly, if those two had a strong codeshare I could see them both making either MCI or STL a focus city with AS going west and B6 going east connecting each other's pax between the coasts.
 
TerminalD
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Re: Kansas City passes new terminal for MCI Airport

Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:56 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
TerminalD wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:


The terminal completion is so far down the line that it is too early to tell...

Southwest wouldn't have spent the money unless they planned to expand in a way the current terminal prevented. I.E. connections



Huh? Southwest isn't spending additional money, they are paying for the new terminal by using it just like every other airline is(landing fees, gate fees, e.t.c).... It isn't like they put down 1.1 billion to build the new terminal. Southwest will bear the most cost, however, that is just because proportionally they are the largest carrier...

Also despite what WN says, they are still sending a decent amount of connections through MCI already (I know this because I have seen the Origin and Destination Survey).

I guess you didn't read what I quoted. The prior poster said WN paid for an ad campaign supporting the new terminal.
 
sw733
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Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:05 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
EA had shown conclusively that MCI can be a great mid-continent hub, particularly for a carrier looking to establish one. If their new facility can support it and their CPE remains low, it’s a question of when it becomes a connecting hub, not if.


Sorry but comparing the airline market of 2017-2020 to the airline market of Eastern's time is a bit ridiculous. A lot has changed in the last 30 +/- years.
 
chalupas54
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Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:07 pm

MCI will not be a connecting hub. End of story.


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usxguy
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Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:11 pm

Midwest had a small "hub" of sorts and it worked well. Vanguard, in its final "attempt" made MCI work as a connector.

Air Midwest/USAirways Express was the last hold-out. They had flights to OMA, SGF, HRO, SLN, ICT, COU, UIN, and a slew of other cities in Kansas whose codes I have long forgot. USAir even closed off part of their doors to the curb and made the first part of "A" a 'concourse' of sorts with like 6 gates behind 1 checkpoint.
xx
 
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usxguy
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Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:12 pm

chalupas54 wrote:
MCI will not be a connecting hub. End of story.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Kinda arrogant there.

Especially since even Southwest pushes connections via MCI.

I don't come back with statements like that on topics where *I AM* in the know, I just let it go. Active discussions never hurt anyone, unless you are antifa or a sjw.
xx
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:18 pm

usxguy wrote:
chalupas54 wrote:
MCI will not be a connecting hub. End of story.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Kinda arrogant there.

Especially since even Southwest pushes connections via MCI.

I don't come back with statements like that on topics where *I AM* in the know, I just let it go. Active discussions never hurt anyone, unless you are antifa or a sjw.


I don't see it supporting 200+ flights as some Omni-directional hub by any means but could 3 banks of 20 flights work as an East-West focus city work...sure.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:33 pm

Ultimately I think it will all come down to how the new terminal works for the various airlines. And that is 4-5 yeas off at least.

In the meantime the new terminal approval at least allows the discussion of growth/something new happening at MCI. Something that would not be possible otherwise.

Tugg
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Dominion301
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Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:02 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
EA had shown conclusively that MCI can be a great mid-continent hub, particularly for a carrier looking to establish one. If their new facility can support it and their CPE remains low, it’s a question of when it becomes a connecting hub, not if.


I think it's safe to say WN will pump more connects thru MCI with a new terminal. Right now connecting at MCI is a miserable experience, which leads folks not wanting to connect there.
 
RJNUT
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Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:32 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
EA had shown conclusively that MCI can be a great mid-continent hub, particularly for a carrier looking to establish one. If their new facility can support it and their CPE remains low, it’s a question of when it becomes a connecting hub, not if.


I think it's safe to say WN will pump more connects thru MCI with a new terminal. Right now connecting at MCI is a miserable experience, which leads folks not wanting to connect there.

not miserable for everyone..I flew MDW-MCI recently on WN and these two ladies were connecting onward to LAS and were thrilled that their next flight was less than 25feet away and in the boarding process . so literally walked off one plane and on to another.
 
sw733
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Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:51 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
EA had shown conclusively that MCI can be a great mid-continent hub, particularly for a carrier looking to establish one. If their new facility can support it and their CPE remains low, it’s a question of when it becomes a connecting hub, not if.


I think it's safe to say WN will pump more connects thru MCI with a new terminal. Right now connecting at MCI is a miserable experience, which leads folks not wanting to connect there.


I'm all for a new airport as an MCI-based frequent flier, but the connection experience with Southwest is okay if you're on a short connection in the current format. It's at least all within the same security zone and the walking distances are never far. There's a restaurant/bar as well as a Starbucks within the secure area. Bathrooms are definitely the weakest part of that gate area as there's often a line. But it used to be much, much worse when Southwest wasn't all within the same security area.
 
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CFM565A1
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Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:54 pm

I'm happy for them, it's time to get a nicer facility there. I know a lot of people who have been hoping for this to come.
Flown: C172-M/N/P/R/S , P2006T, PA-34-200T, DH8A/C Been on: DH8A/C ERJ-145, CRJ-100/200, DH8D, CRJ-700/705/900, E-175/190, A319/320/321, 737-200/300/400/600/700/800/900ER, MD-82/83, 757-200/300, 767-300, 777-300ER, F28-4000.
 
KentB27
Posts: 276
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:20 pm

Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:28 pm

This is a pleasant surprise for me. I never thought this would happen anytime soon. I'm glad that more Kansas Citians are finally starting to see the benefits of these types of improvements that move our city forward.
 
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usxguy
Posts: 1510
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:34 am

I never suggested 200+ flights, that's overkill.
xx
 
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STT757
Posts: 13634
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:14 pm

Tugger wrote:
Congrats to KC and MCI!
From what I know the new terminal be built where A is currently. Is this still the basic/expected design:
Image

Tugg


If so, it looks beautiful. Congratulations to the residents of the region, I hope this leads to further air service developments.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
ericm2031
Posts: 890
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:00 pm

chalupas54 wrote:
Congrats, Kansas City! Very much needed.

However, many of you are getting ahead of yourselves.

New terminal does not equal new flights.
Not a single airline ever came close to saying MCI would get new flights for a new terminal. They simply want a “better experience”.

With St Louis, Midway, Love, and Denver all nearby, the likelihood of a WN focus city at MCI is highly unlikely if not improbable.

Keep this in mind also. The costs to airlines will increase dramatically. This could have mixed results.

Finally, regarding the Kansas City market. The market is underperforming. Airlines are not cutting routes and frequencies because of the facility. They cannot sell enough seats.

It will be interesting to see how this progresses. Again, the new terminal was needed. But it won’t bring a hub.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I believe MCI is already a focus city for WN
 
JRL3289
Posts: 65
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:57 pm

Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:02 pm

MCI will see increased service as local demand grows, but I doubt we’ll see anything significant in terms of a full-fledged hub. Perhaps a DL focus city? WN has DAL, MDW, DEN and STL within 550 miles of MCI and already serves any significant O/D markets as it is; B6 and AS have yet to show interest in growing a presence in the Midwest; and both AA and UA continue to focus on their massive hubs. I suppose F9 or NK could also make a go of things at MCI, but they change things up so frequently it’s hard to speculate. ;)
 
Jshank83
Posts: 1938
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:02 pm

ericm2031 wrote:
I believe MCI is already a focus city for WN


WN doesn't technically have focus cities or hubs. People just assign those names based on flights. MCI is the 19th busiest city for WN (before the last schedule update). So I guess it depends on where you want to draw the line for what is a focus city. Justin Meyer said KC only has 4% connecting passengers so they aren't running too many connections through MCI.

Here are max daily flights for the Top 20 WN stations (again it doesn't count the newest update)

Chicago–Midway 253
Baltimore–Washington 244
Las Vegas 217
Orlando 186
Dallas-Love Field 180
Houston-Hobby 176
Oakland 135
Los Angeles 130
Atlanta 125
Tampa 121
St. Louis 114
San Diego 114
Nashville 105
Fort Lauderdale 94
San Jose (CA) 94
Sacramento 82
Kansas City 76
Austin 70
 
IndyHoosier
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:35 am

Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:24 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
I believe MCI is already a focus city for WN


WN doesn't technically have focus cities or hubs. People just assign those names based on flights. MCI is the 19th busiest city for WN (before the last schedule update). So I guess it depends on where you want to draw the line for what is a focus city. Justin Meyer said KC only has 4% connecting passengers so they aren't running too many connections through MCI.

Here are max daily flights for the Top 20 WN stations (again it doesn't count the newest update)

Chicago–Midway 253
Baltimore–Washington 244
Las Vegas 217
Orlando 186
Dallas-Love Field 180
Houston-Hobby 176
Oakland 135
Los Angeles 130
Atlanta 125
Tampa 121
St. Louis 114
San Diego 114
Nashville 105
Fort Lauderdale 94
San Jose (CA) 94
Sacramento 82
Kansas City 76
Austin 70


Where are DEN and PHX?
 
Jshank83
Posts: 1938
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:35 pm

IndyHoosier wrote:

Where are DEN and PHX?


I guess you didn't hear they are shutting them down.......................

Somehow I missed them. They are there now.


Chicago–Midway 253
Baltimore–Washington 244
Las Vegas 217
Denver 200
Phoenix 187
Orlando 186
Dallas-Love Field 180
Houston-Hobby 176
Oakland 135
Los Angeles 130
Atlanta 125
Tampa 121
St. Louis 114
San Diego 114
Nashville 105
Fort Lauderdale 94
San Jose (CA) 94
Sacramento 82
Kansas City 76
Austin 70
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1371
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:46 pm

WN could easily add a additional 40 to 50 flights with this new terminal. Not to mention some international service also.
MCI voters just made the best decision.

Even B6 might be keen to make this it's much needed middle of America hub in the future.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
NZ321
Posts: 913
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:15 pm

The problem with WN is that they are not in a position to offer any feed / interline arrangements for regional midwest destinations as far as I know. Please correct me if I am wrong.

With the new more efficient terminal one could imagine that MCI will come up the rankings somewhat, surpass SMF an maybe SJC and FLL but only time will tell.
Plane mad!
 
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knope2001
Posts: 2786
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:02 am

Cranky Flier has some good information from a Southwest source on KCI, which supports my amateur (but frequent KCI user) opinion. KCI limits what Southwest can reasonably do. It can't bank flights for connections and it shies away from pushing connecting flows through the airport because of congestion and crappy customer experience. The new terminal will change that, so when they look at a market like Kansas City-San Jose if the local market is a little marginal for a nonstop the better connection flow ability can make the difference. Or a market like MCI-BOS may be able to support 2x instead of 1x in winter. They don't promise the world, but I think incremental improvements will come steadily.

http://crankyflier.com/2017/11/09/with- ... nsas-city/

Even if a new KCI was opened 10 years ago I don't know that Southwest doesn't still build the banked operation in St Louis. St Louis is a bigger local market and already (organically) had more nonstop links to the east before Southwest got serious about flight banks with Des Moines, Little Rock, Tulsa, etc. added. Plus St Louis being close to 250 miles farther east makes for less-circuitous connections between the east and places like New Orleans, Little Rock, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, San Antonio, Des Moines, etc. Kansas City isn't as perfect a mid-continent hub as people raised on the Mercator Projection map suggests because the earth is curved and because population density is mostly very sparse between Kansas City and the west coast. Even transcon traffic if you plot the great circle route connecting the biggest three west coast population centers (LA, SFBay, Seattle) an the biggest three east coast (Boston, NY, Washington/Baltimore) the routes converge roughly over the southern Great Lakes region, with a connection over places like Chicago or Detroit being the fewest miles overall. By no means is KC a bad geographic point for a hub, but I think some look a a flat map and thing it is the perfect place were it not for the terminal.

Anyway, I personally think this is great and that the KC region will benefit greatly even though odds of becoming a big "hub" are pretty tiny. But if 5-7 years from now Southwest has 20 more flights, KC's nonstop map has filled out nicely with more nonstop destinations, that's not a loss. And frankly when outsiders come to do business, go to school, consider a move, or even just connect through the Kansas City airport that first impression will be so, so much better than it is today. I don't think making a good impressions is a singular justification for any new terminal, but it will a definite benefit for greater KC.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 1938
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:31 am

knope2001 wrote:
Cranky Flier has some good information from a Southwest source on KCI, which supports my amateur (but frequent KCI user) opinion. KCI limits what Southwest can reasonably do. It can't bank flights for connections and it shies away from pushing connecting flows through the airport because of congestion and crappy customer experience. The new terminal will change that, so when they look at a market like Kansas City-San Jose if the local market is a little marginal for a nonstop the better connection flow ability can make the difference. Or a market like MCI-BOS may be able to support 2x instead of 1x in winter. They don't promise the world, but I think incremental improvements will come steadily.

http://crankyflier.com/2017/11/09/with- ... nsas-city/

Even if a new KCI was opened 10 years ago I don't know that Southwest doesn't still build the banked operation in St Louis. St Louis is a bigger local market and already (organically) had more nonstop links to the east before Southwest got serious about flight banks with Des Moines, Little Rock, Tulsa, etc. added. Plus St Louis being close to 250 miles farther east makes for less-circuitous connections between the east and places like New Orleans, Little Rock, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, San Antonio, Des Moines, etc. Kansas City isn't as perfect a mid-continent hub as people raised on the Mercator Projection map suggests because the earth is curved and because population density is mostly very sparse between Kansas City and the west coast. Even transcon traffic if you plot the great circle route connecting the biggest three west coast population centers (LA, SFBay, Seattle) an the biggest three east coast (Boston, NY, Washington/Baltimore) the routes converge roughly over the southern Great Lakes region, with a connection over places like Chicago or Detroit being the fewest miles overall. By no means is KC a bad geographic point for a hub, but I think some look a a flat map and thing it is the perfect place were it not for the terminal.

Anyway, I personally think this is great and that the KC region will benefit greatly even though odds of becoming a big "hub" are pretty tiny. But if 5-7 years from now Southwest has 20 more flights, KC's nonstop map has filled out nicely with more nonstop destinations, that's not a loss. And frankly when outsiders come to do business, go to school, consider a move, or even just connect through the Kansas City airport that first impression will be so, so much better than it is today. I don't think making a good impressions is a singular justification for any new terminal, but it will a definite benefit for greater KC.


I think this is a good take on the situation.
 
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SANFan
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Updated: MCI New Terminal Vote Passed

Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:49 pm

Congratulations to Kansas City on this great step forward! All the important points have already been made in this thread and it remains to be seen which opinions will prove to be correct in 5-10 years.

One thing that won't change is KC's geographical location which has always made the city a potential candidate for some level of hub operation. That being said, I think it's more likely the U.S. will see existing hub closures rather than new ones created. But I can personally see MCI become some carrier's focus operation at least, over the next decade.

Civic pride is important and that just got a nice shot in the arm with the passing of this vote. Indianapolis and Sacramento are 2 examples of major terminal re-builds which elevated those city's images and MCI will see that same civic lift.

I am surprised to read about the quick time frame that has been reported here: construction to start next summer!? That leads me to believe that a lot of the planning and design on this project has already been done. (Or maybe I'm used to California where the EIR alone would take years to get done!) I imagine the demolition and construction will still take several years to complete so be patient, KC!

Again, congrats to the people of KC for starting the process to make this happen!

bb

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