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NDiesel
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Number of Flights in Africa

Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:12 pm

I sometimes pull up FR24 to get a look at flights overhead, and I notice that unlike the packed airspaces of Europe, US and the Middle East, Africa seems almost devoid of flights in comparison. I'm guessing many flights don't show up as the aircrafts aren't equipped with ADS-B receivers, but then again, fleets across the continent both have been and are being modernised these days. KQ, ET, SA and several more are visible + EU and US aircraft, but that's about it... Is the number of flights in Africa really that low or is there any other explanation?

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PatrickZ80
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Re: Number of Flights in Africa

Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:18 pm

Number of flights is rather low as Africa is a rather underdeveloped continent so most people can't afford to fly. There also are very little major airlines in Africa and there's almost zero short/medium haul traffic within the African continent. Sometimes to get from one African country to another (not even that far apart) the most direct link is a transfer somewhere in Europe or the Middle East.
 
FlyingHollander
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Re: Number of Flights in Africa

Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:23 pm

I'm no expert, but just a quick look on Wikipedia gives some perspective.

Africa's busiest airports (preliminary 2016 stats):

JNB 20.7mil pax
CAI 16.4
CPT 10.1
ADD 8.9
CMN 8.6
ALG 7.2
NBO 7.1
LOS 6.7
DUR 5.2
TUN 4.9

The passenger numbers just aren't there.
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much.
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Number of Flights in Africa

Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:05 pm

Well I know this is a small one but Kenya Aiways ERJ’s and B737-700’s don’t show up on FR24.
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
george77300
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Re: Number of Flights in Africa

Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:12 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
Well I know this is a small one but Kenya Aiways ERJ’s and B737-700’s don’t show up on FR24.


Many of the small ATRs etc don’t either.
 
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Smoketrails
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Re: Number of Flights in Africa

Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:13 pm

And not all of the African continent is covered by FR24.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Number of Flights in Africa

Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:29 pm

Flightradar24 gathers its information mostly from crowdgathering. A private volunteer sets up an ADS-B antenna on his roof, and streams the data onto the internet. Given how sparsely populated parts of Africa is, and how bad the internet connections tend to be, you won't really find feed for the most of Africa.
 
vinniewinnie
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Re: Number of Flights in Africa

Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:43 pm

Just looking at departure boards within Flightradar24 for several airports in Africa will show you that there are not many flights in Africa. A few domestic flights combined with some international connections is all you will have within a day. So we are talking about max 10 departures for most international airports, which is very low.

Military and cargo flights are not usually shown either. They can add a few flights a day as well.
 
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leleko747
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Re: Number of Flights in Africa

Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:08 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
Well I know this is a small one but Kenya Aiways ERJ’s and B737-700’s don’t show up on FR24.


Kenya Airways doesn't operate ERJs. It seems that only a company called "ALS" is operating them in Kenya
I wonder when people will understand:
Embraer 190 or simply E190, not ERJ-190. E-Jets are NOT ERJs!
Boeing 747-8, not Boeing 747-800. Same goes for 787.
Airbus A320, not Airbus 320.
Airbii does not exist.
 
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Siren
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Re: Number of Flights in Africa

Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:39 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Flightradar24 gathers its information mostly from crowdgathering. A private volunteer sets up an ADS-B antenna on his roof, and streams the data onto the internet. Given how sparsely populated parts of Africa is, and how bad the internet connections tend to be, you won't really find feed for the most of Africa.


Bingo. This is less an issue of lack of flights (though there are very few compared to the developed world) - and mostly because there simply aren't any ADS-B receivers across vast swaths of Africa. South Africa will of course have coverage, and the large metropolitan areas will have a receiver based there, but as soon as the planes are out of range of those receivers, there's no more coverage.

There is a good amount of activity related to cargo flights that support mining operations across the continent. A number of old jets have been converted to be diesel tankers, and flown out to dirt strips in the middle of nowhere. You've got old Antonovs flying cargo to essentially the middle of nowhere - there's a good deal of this cargo activity, mostly because there is no other infrastructure on the continent. Things that would normally be brought in by truck or train anywhere else in the world must be brought in by airplane, or not brought in at all, as the road networks are inadequate and unable to connect... too bad we can't see this stuff on FR24 though!
 
VSMUT
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Re: Number of Flights in Africa

Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:45 pm

Siren wrote:
There is a good amount of activity related to cargo flights that support mining operations across the continent. A number of old jets have been converted to be diesel tankers, and flown out to dirt strips in the middle of nowhere. You've got old Antonovs flying cargo to essentially the middle of nowhere - there's a good deal of this cargo activity, mostly because there is no other infrastructure on the continent. Things that would normally be brought in by truck or train anywhere else in the world must be brought in by airplane, or not brought in at all, as the road networks are inadequate and unable to connect... too bad we can't see this stuff on FR24 though!


Most of this wouldn't appear on FR24 anyway. I doubt they fit ADS-B transponders to those old bangers. I doubt most African countries even require that aircraft be refitted with ADS-B, so anything older than 2005 is unlikely to have it.
 
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Siren
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Re: Number of Flights in Africa

Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:05 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Most of this wouldn't appear on FR24 anyway. I doubt they fit ADS-B transponders to those old bangers. I doubt most African countries even require that aircraft be refitted with ADS-B, so anything older than 2005 is unlikely to have it.


Anything that was with a first world operator after 2007 - or was operated in Europe/Asia/Americas at all would need to be RVSM compliant. I think a good number of these planes would have the ADS-B transponders on them. The only circumstance where it wouldn't is if the plane never ever leaves Africa, and has been there for the last 12+ years...

Still though, more coverage and we'd see much more interesting things happening...
 
phxtravelboy
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Re: Number of Flights in Africa

Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:23 pm

I work in corporate travel and unfortunately the majority of our client's travel is to/from and within Africa. Believe me, the service there is absolutely dreadful if you're not going to a MAJOR city such as Cairo or Johannesburg, or to a major hub city such as Casablanca, thanks to the extensive route network of Royal Air Maroc. Most of the other African cities don't even have daily service so it is extremely difficult trying to find flights. This becomes most apparent when trying to book intra Africa travel; the service is truly awful!! Again, if not going between 2 MAJOR cities such as Cairo-Johannesburg, forget it. You're looking at multiple connections with forced overnights on the days service operates. Some days there is literally zero service at all. On my job we're booking people to Bangui, Monrovia, Freetown, Juba, Bujumbura; VERY difficult places to get to/from. Africa is the most challenging continent BY far to book travel to/from and within.
 
directorguy
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Re: Number of Flights in Africa

Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:51 pm

It's ridiculous how to fly between two African cities sometimes the only way is to go on Air France via Paris. At least ET among others is making an effort to get passengers to transitbin Africa
 
rukundo
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Re: Number of Flights in Africa

Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:32 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
Well I know this is a small one but Kenya Aiways ERJ’s and B737-700’s don’t show up on FR24


Since some months you can follow KQ ERJ and the 2 KQ B737-700s, these later often fly to Bamako and Dakar.

Kenya Airways doesn't operate ERJs. It seems that only a company called "ALS" is operating them in Kenya


Kenya Airways operates ERJ-190s, most of time on East and Southern Africa routes. ALS is a private company which provides limited scheduled flights, but also leasing and special flights for NGO, KQ and ALS are not linked

It's ridiculous how to fly between two African cities sometimes the only way is to go on Air France via Paris. At least ET among others is making an effort to get passengers to transitbin Africa


It's very expensive to fly in Africa, due to the low competition (because many Africans countries close their sky to other Africans Airlines) and the Airports taxes & fees are the highest in the world. There are lots of restrictions between African States (trade, visas,...), but it starts to change on this side. That's why sometimes, some people fly via Paris from Senegal to Madagascar.

It hard to believe this, because Africans States signed an agreement for the liberalization of Air Transport in Africa, in....1999. But few countries have have implemented this agreement

The Yamoussoukro Decisionhttp://www.worldbank.org/en/top ... for-africa
 
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nordikcam
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Re: Number of Flights in Africa

Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:10 pm

rukundo wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
Well I know this is a small one but Kenya Aiways ERJ’s and B737-700’s don’t show up on FR24


Since some months you can follow KQ ERJ and the 2 KQ B737-700s, these later often fly to Bamako and Dakar.

Kenya Airways doesn't operate ERJs. It seems that only a company called "ALS" is operating them in Kenya


Kenya Airways operates ERJ-190s, most of time on East and Southern Africa routes. ALS is a private company which provides limited scheduled flights, but also leasing and special flights for NGO, KQ and ALS are not linked

It's ridiculous how to fly between two African cities sometimes the only way is to go on Air France via Paris. At least ET among others is making an effort to get passengers to transitbin Africa


It's very expensive to fly in Africa, due to the low competition (because many Africans countries close their sky to other Africans Airlines) and the Airports taxes & fees are the highest in the world. There are lots of restrictions between African States (trade, visas,...), but it starts to change on this side. That's why sometimes, some people fly via Paris from Senegal to Madagascar.

It hard to believe this, because Africans States signed an agreement for the liberalization of Air Transport in Africa, in....1999. But few countries have have implemented this agreement

The Yamoussoukro Decisionhttp://www.worldbank.org/en/top ... for-africa



SN makes intra-African flights like Dakar Conakry or Dakar Banjul and some others as Kigali Entebbe or Bujumbura Entebbe ...and others ones
 
BENAir01
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Re: Number of Flights in Africa

Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:14 pm

nordikcam wrote:
SN makes intra-African flights like Dakar Conakry or Dakar Banjul and some others as Kigali Entebbe or Bujumbura Entebbe ...and others ones

I don’t believe you can book those, as they are triangle routings. Ex the plane does BRU-DKR-CKY-BRU and you can book BRU-DKR or BRU-CKY (via DKR) or DKR-BRU (via CKY) or CKY-BRU, but you can’t book DKR-CKY.
Why is flying so expensive? And why is flying well so much more?
 
vinniewinnie
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Re: Number of Flights in Africa

Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:27 pm

BENAir01 wrote:
nordikcam wrote:
SN makes intra-African flights like Dakar Conakry or Dakar Banjul and some others as Kigali Entebbe or Bujumbura Entebbe ...and others ones

I don’t believe you can book those, as they are triangle routings. Ex the plane does BRU-DKR-CKY-BRU and you can book BRU-DKR or BRU-CKY (via DKR) or DKR-BRU (via CKY) or CKY-BRU, but you can’t book DKR-CKY.


That’s right. There are also for example more flights from SN from Luanda to Kinshasa than from Taag from Luanda to Kinshasa. Yet, SN flights are not bookable, and Taag flights cost an arm and a leg (about 500 dollars return last time I checked)

I wouldn’t overestimate the amount of cargo flights either. Yes there are quite a few that carry things you’d never see being carried anywhere else by plane (2nd hand clothing, toothpaste etc.), but due to the small size of the market outside the capitals, there won’t be many such flights.
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Number of Flights in Africa

Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:42 pm

vinniewinnie wrote:
BENAir01 wrote:
nordikcam wrote:
SN makes intra-African flights like Dakar Conakry or Dakar Banjul and some others as Kigali Entebbe or Bujumbura Entebbe ...and others ones

I don’t believe you can book those, as they are triangle routings. Ex the plane does BRU-DKR-CKY-BRU and you can book BRU-DKR or BRU-CKY (via DKR) or DKR-BRU (via CKY) or CKY-BRU, but you can’t book DKR-CKY.


That’s right. There are also for example more flights from SN from Luanda to Kinshasa than from Taag from Luanda to Kinshasa. Yet, SN flights are not bookable, and Taag flights cost an arm and a leg (about 500 dollars return last time I checked)

I wouldn’t overestimate the amount of cargo flights either. Yes there are quite a few that carry things you’d never see being carried anywhere else by plane (2nd hand clothing, toothpaste etc.), but due to the small size of the market outside the capitals, there won’t be many such flights.

I was told by SN crew that majority of the triangular routings aren't bookable but some are. Not sure which ones. Also was told that politicians are allowed to do for example DKR-CKY with SN with it being the case quite often.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
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nordikcam
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Re: Number of Flights in Africa

Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:35 pm

lesfalls wrote:
vinniewinnie wrote:
BENAir01 wrote:
I don’t believe you can book those, as they are triangle routings. Ex the plane does BRU-DKR-CKY-BRU and you can book BRU-DKR or BRU-CKY (via DKR) or DKR-BRU (via CKY) or CKY-BRU, but you can’t book DKR-CKY.


That’s right. There are also for example more flights from SN from Luanda to Kinshasa than from Taag from Luanda to Kinshasa. Yet, SN flights are not bookable, and Taag flights cost an arm and a leg (about 500 dollars return last time I checked)

I wouldn’t overestimate the amount of cargo flights either. Yes there are quite a few that carry things you’d never see being carried anywhere else by plane (2nd hand clothing, toothpaste etc.), but due to the small size of the market outside the capitals, there won’t be many such flights.

I was told by SN crew that majority of the triangular routings aren't bookable but some are. Not sure which ones. Also was told that politicians are allowed to do for example DKR-CKY with SN with it being the case quite often.


Yes some routes are bookable...DKR CKY for sure and I guess Freetown ROB ( Monrovia ) and KGL / EBB but not sure...

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