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ADrum23
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JFK reconstruction update?

Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:01 am

What is going on with the JFK reconstruction plan that Gov. Andrew Cuomo proposed back in January? I have not heard anything since. What exactly are the plans?
 
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maortega15
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:20 am

I was hoping to see T7 being gone while T8 gets the needed extension and BA can move in, but they just spent a whole lot of money to renovate T7.
 
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Captain77W
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:29 am

Why not just get rid of all the terminals and have 2 centralized terminals one for International and one for Domestic flights ?
 
ty97
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:35 am

Captain77W wrote:
Why not just get rid of all the terminals and have 2 centralized terminals one for International and one for Domestic flights ?


Limited space. You need to build in increments around existing operational terminals. Also, various airlines and groups have invested in the terminals they currently have.

But why separate domestic and international flights? Makes connections harder, and why would DL or AA or B6 want to have operations split that like that?
 
stlgph
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:36 am

I mean...why get on Google Maps and look at the airport layout before posting here?
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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Captain77W
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:37 am

How busy is JFK ? Could a Hong Kong styled mega terminal work for them or is it a must for them to keep their set up of multiple terminals ?
 
tphuang
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:53 am

Captain77W wrote:
How busy is JFK ? Could a Hong Kong styled mega terminal work for them or is it a must for them to keep their set up of multiple terminals ?

That won't work in New York. I can assure you.
 
YYZLGA
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:07 am

My main wish for JFK is that its runway layout and airspace could be redesigned so that the airport could handle far more traffic than it does. It can barely handle more movements per hour than LGA, even though its site is bigger than ATL in terms of land area.
 
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Captain77W
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:23 am

tphuang wrote:
Captain77W wrote:
How busy is JFK ? Could a Hong Kong styled mega terminal work for them or is it a must for them to keep their set up of multiple terminals ?

That won't work in New York. I can assure you.

Why ?
 
FSDan
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:36 am

What I'm most interested in is any news about when T4A will get built out. The initial designs showed both T4 concourses getting extended, and it seems like that's a necessary step in order to get DL's ops all under the same roof while closing the old T2.

On an unrelated note, does QR still operate their two daily flights from different terminals? It's always seemed ridiculous to me that they operated the morning flight out of T7 and the evening flight out of T8 (or vice versa - I don't remember which operates out of which).
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
LupineChemist
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:58 am

I have heard from the Port Authority that any reconstruction won't start until LGA is done.

And judging from the responses in this thread, people seem to not realize that JFK needs to stay operational while construction happens, so that limits lots of 'tear it down and start over' options. NYC just doesn't have the capacity to run out of EWR alone.
 
NZ321
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:36 am

The vacant space previously occupied by Pan Am's terminal is ripe for the picking.
Plane mad!
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:58 am

YYZLGA wrote:
My main wish for JFK is that its runway layout and airspace could be redesigned so that the airport could handle far more traffic than it does. It can barely handle more movements per hour than LGA, even though its site is bigger than ATL in terms of land area.


It's not so much the layout than the fact that LaGuardia has to be minded and separation for flights in and out of JFK has to be considered with respect to LGA aircraft as well...hence the Canarsie turns. This is least problematic when winds are from the southwest straight, as it means that LGA is using 22 for arrivals and 31 for takeoffs, while JFK would use the 22s (22 is closed until later this month) or northeast straight and clear (JFK uses the 4s and LGA departs 4 and arrives 31; if it isn't clear, LGA is an all-4 operation).

As for QR, it still operates out of T7 for AM and T8 for PM...ironically using two different ground handlers: dnata for T7 and Swissport for T8.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:06 pm

1. These were master plans released by a showmans governor. They are guidelines for the future that will be built incrementally. The hotel and T5 expansion to T7 will work towards that master plan.

2. Most important part of plan could
be done tomorrow by the state: a 4th lane on Van Wyck from Kew Gardens to the airport.

3. For the one terminal guys: google jfk tunnel to nowhere. Talked about, construction started, airlines balked, construction stopped. Called JFK 2000 circa early 90s.

4. QR still has morning flight from T7...still not sure why
 
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Revelation
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:08 pm

NZ321 wrote:
The vacant space previously occupied by Pan Am's terminal is ripe for the picking.

If you do some cruising around on google maps, you'll see there really isn't much space left. A bunch is being used for highly prized ramp space. As above we really need to see T4A built out and T2 knocked down before there is enough space to do anything with that part of JFK.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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Captain77W
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:40 pm

Why not Image
Build a Centralized mega terminal in the red area
Cargo Areas in the neon area
And maintenance hangars in the Purple area
The Current JFK looks like total chaos and streamline the whole airport would make it easier to expand and far more efficient, plus drastically improve the current land use
 
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Revelation
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:56 pm

Captain77W wrote:
Why not

Put away the pipe, the bottle, the pills and the needles.

You can't just snap your fingers and transform one of the worlds busiest airports in one of the most expensive places to build on Earth just because you think land utilization will go up.

There's lots of expensive facilities owned by different ownership groups with different interests involved.

This isn't at all like the case where a colonial government decides to lay waste to an island and fill up a bay and build a greenfield airport.

It's pretty much the opposite of that.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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Captain77W
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:15 pm

It could be a master plan and eventually build towards that goal.
 
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Captain77W
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:14 pm

Building it phases would be the best way to rebuild the airport in the way that it becomes an entirely new airport with limited impact to the operations of the airport plus it would be more financially viable as it would be a long term project.

Phase 1 would be building new maintenance hangars and roads linking them at the site north and currently occupied by runway 22L/4R

Phase 2 would be building new cargo terminals with new roads and taxiways connecting them at the north east of runway 13L/31R

Phase 3 would be demolishing the old hangars and cargo terminals and extending runway 13L/31R for wide bodies, enabling JFK to handle more wide bodies after the new centralised terminal becomes active

Phase 4
Constructing the new roads and railway links to the new terminal site

Phase 5
Constructing the new terminal in phases and closing the old terminals in phases as the new terminal makes them redundant (Taxiways and Ramps will also need to be built )

Phase 6
Completing the new terminal entirely and demolishing the remaining old terminals and all of their remaining infrastructure to free up land for future development
 
Socrates17
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:04 pm

jfklganyc wrote:

2. Most important part of plan could
be done tomorrow by the state: a 4th lane on Van Wyck from Kew Gardens to the airport.


Ah, the infamous Van Wyck Parking Lot! That's the main reason I dread picked up South Korean relatives who visit us in Northern New Jersey. (I can avoid the Cross Bronx Parking Lot by going a different way.) There is no EWR <> ICN nonstop service, and I don't expect that there ever will be. Some of the in-laws are elderly and I won't have them change planes (and certainly not in San Francisco). If we're going to visit them, at least UA & Air China fly EWR to PEK & PVG so we could change there. I'd do that rather than negotiate that godawful highway.
You Can't Take the Sky from Me
 
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FoxtrotSierra
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:07 pm

Captain77W wrote:
Why not just get rid of all the terminals and have 2 centralized terminals one for International and one for Domestic flights ?


Even better, just make one big terminal for both Int'l and domestic.
 
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tlecam
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:10 pm

Captain77W wrote:
Building it phases would be the best way to rebuild the airport in the way that it becomes an entirely new airport with limited impact to the operations of the airport plus it would be more financially viable as it would be a long term project.

Phase 1 would be building new maintenance hangars and roads linking them at the site north and currently occupied by runway 22L/4R

Phase 2 would be building new cargo terminals with new roads and taxiways connecting them at the north east of runway 13L/31R

Phase 3 would be demolishing the old hangars and cargo terminals and extending runway 13L/31R for wide bodies, enabling JFK to handle more wide bodies after the new centralised terminal becomes active

Phase 4
Constructing the new roads and railway links to the new terminal site

Phase 5
Constructing the new terminal in phases and closing the old terminals in phases as the new terminal makes them redundant (Taxiways and Ramps will also need to be built )

Phase 6
Completing the new terminal entirely and demolishing the remaining old terminals and all of their remaining infrastructure to free up land for future development


Congratulations! You’ve solved it! Why didn’t anyone think of this before?
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
GolfBravoRomeo
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:23 pm

Socrates17 wrote:
Ah, the infamous Van Wyck Parking Lot! That's the main reason I dread picked up South Korean relatives who visit us in Northern New Jersey. (I can avoid the Cross Bronx Parking Lot by going a different way.)


My last time going to JFK everything was a parking lot. I seriously thought it was going to get really tight time wise. And then we hit the Van Wyck, and the craziest thing happened, traffic was moving freely and we actually made up time there. What alternate universe was that?
 
RichardWelling
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:28 am

jfklganyc wrote:

4. QR still has morning flight from T7...still not sure why


AA controls the ramp/gate space in terminal 8. When the AM flight started. AA could not facilitate them when they had already comitted to other carriers or their own ops during the QR AM flight start up.

That was the story I was told by someone at AA.

Now that AB is gone, perhaps things might change but who knows.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:05 pm

AA is cutting back on their own flying too. Especially the widebody stuff. Im sure they will be looking to get more pax flying through T8 from other places.

Sad days at the unfinished AA Paalace.
 
questions
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:31 pm

When complete, connections within T4 will be a PITA, especially T4A to T4B.

A better design for T4 would have been parallel concourses similar to T8.
 
hz747300
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:01 am

If a rebuilt LGA matches the artists renderings, then I'll believe that JFK can be majorly renovated to a good standard on budget and on time. The problem with building in the US, and in particular NY is the lawsuits. People sue over anything. Millions are spent either settling, or doing work so that you are not sued, long before construction is even planned. Unions sue if you try anything innovative, which means less work for a single trade. Environmental impact assessments, let alone lawsuits no matter the outcome of the assessments, and so on.

That said, individual terminals are decent. Terminal 6 or 7 (the one CX uses) has been made nicer on the departures level & experience. T8 is efficient, but bland, with brands I have never heard of for food outlets. T4 needs to be improved. It looks great on the outside, but needs to be tidied up.
Keep on truckin'...
 
kaitak744
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Re: JFK reconstruction update?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:23 am

To be honest, the terminals at JFK are really not bad. Most of them are very modern. T8 is relatively new. T7 is being updated. T5 is new and is being expanded to T7. T4 will be expanded (T4A). T1 is crowded... but will probably expand into the space of T2/T3 once T4A is built and DL moves out. That pretty much solves the terminal problems. What they need is more runways. That's a whole other discussion.

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