ooslc
Topic Author
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AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:09 pm

Saw on Facebook that AS is starting SEA-PIT.

Starts Sept. 6 2018. Daily 737.

Dept SEA 8:25am arrive PIT 4:10pm
Dept PIT 5:20pm arrive SEA 7:50pm

Source:
https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2017-11- ... Pittsburgh
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727LOVER
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:35 pm

How long since US was flying this route? 2006 I'm guessing
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cledaybuck
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:39 pm

ooslc wrote:
Saw on Facebook that AS is starting SEA-PIT.

Starts Sept. 6 2018. Daily 737.

Dept SEA 8:25am arrive PIT 4:10pm
Dept PIT 5:20pm arrive SEA 7:50pm

Source:
https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2017-11- ... Pittsburgh
Just in time for low season in Seattle! What kind of connections do these times allow?
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
sw733
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:45 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
ooslc wrote:
Saw on Facebook that AS is starting SEA-PIT.

Starts Sept. 6 2018. Daily 737.

Dept SEA 8:25am arrive PIT 4:10pm
Dept PIT 5:20pm arrive SEA 7:50pm

Source:
https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2017-11- ... Pittsburgh
Just in time for low season in Seattle! What kind of connections do these times allow?


Not much other than within the Pacific NW/British Columbia/Alaska. But they must feel there's a pretty good O&D market.
 
USAirALB
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:49 pm

Why does AS seem to avoid running red eyes to the East Coast?

A red eye SEA-XXX and then a XXX-SEA am departure would be perfect for connections.
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jetsetter629
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:51 pm

sw733 wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
ooslc wrote:
Saw on Facebook that AS is starting SEA-PIT.

Starts Sept. 6 2018. Daily 737.

Dept SEA 8:25am arrive PIT 4:10pm
Dept PIT 5:20pm arrive SEA 7:50pm

Source:
https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2017-11- ... Pittsburgh
Just in time for low season in Seattle! What kind of connections do these times allow?


Not much other than within the Pacific NW/British Columbia/Alaska. But they must feel there's a pretty good O&D market.


If you ever arrived in SEA between 7:30p and 10p, the place is a mad house!
 
sw733
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:58 pm

jetsetter629 wrote:
sw733 wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
Just in time for low season in Seattle! What kind of connections do these times allow?


Not much other than within the Pacific NW/British Columbia/Alaska. But they must feel there's a pretty good O&D market.


If you ever arrived in SEA between 7:30p and 10p, the place is a mad house!


I never said it wasn't, but looking at tonight's flights during those times, aside from what I mentioned (PNW/Western Canada/Alaska), it's a lot of:

SoCal (possibly getting some connections but it's quite a bit out of the way)
Redeyes to the east coast (obviously not going to fly PIT-BOS via SEA)


So I'll stick to my statement that there aren't too many connections outside of PNW/Western Canada/Alaska, and even fewer that people flying out of PIT would be attracted to.
 
BlatantEcho
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:13 pm

Alaska knows what it’s doing with O&D out of Seattle.
That said, why announce this 10 MONTHS in advance?

Use that -800 freed up from Havana service and start this in April.
 
loisencroach
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:15 pm

I cheated and used faremeasure.com but I did notice PIT - SAN is 210 PDEW and wide open for AS (PIT-SEA was 202 PDEW). Also, PIT-PDX is 124 PDEW so odds are we won't see that anytime soon, maybe seasonally at some point. SJC-PIT is 90 so that'll never happen (maybe with F9...who knows).
 
evank516
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:17 pm

USAirALB wrote:
Why does AS seem to avoid running red eyes to the East Coast?

A red eye SEA-XXX and then a XXX-SEA am departure would be perfect for connections.



In a matter of two minutes I found 3 red eyes to the east coast from SEA: JFK, ATL, and MCO.
 
Runway28L
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:25 pm

sw733 wrote:
jetsetter629 wrote:
sw733 wrote:

Not much other than within the Pacific NW/British Columbia/Alaska. But they must feel there's a pretty good O&D market.


If you ever arrived in SEA between 7:30p and 10p, the place is a mad house!


I never said it wasn't, but looking at tonight's flights during those times, aside from what I mentioned (PNW/Western Canada/Alaska), it's a lot of:

SoCal (possibly getting some connections but it's quite a bit out of the way)
Redeyes to the east coast (obviously not going to fly PIT-BOS via SEA)


So I'll stick to my statement that there aren't too many connections outside of PNW/Western Canada/Alaska, and even fewer that people flying out of PIT would be attracted to.

I doubt very many people are gonna use PIT-SEA for connections to Asia or the West Coast when there's more available options, mainly due to more alliance partners being present at ORD, SFO, LAX, etc.

AS is clearly going for O&D which according to the stats provided above seem sufficient enough to support this route alone.
 
loisencroach
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:32 pm

There were some incentives involved:

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/de ... 1711150185
 
cledaybuck
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:36 pm

BlatantEcho wrote:
Alaska knows what it’s doing with O&D out of Seattle.
That said, why announce this 10 MONTHS in advance?

Use that -800 freed up from Havana service and start this in April.
I assume the aircraft they are using won't be available until September, when the high season dies down (It can't be a coincidence this starts the day after Labor Day).
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usxguy
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:38 pm

BlatantEcho wrote:
Alaska knows what it’s doing with O&D out of Seattle.
That said, why announce this 10 MONTHS in advance?

Use that -800 freed up from Havana service and start this in April.


I thought LAX/HAV was a 900.

And yes, I agree. I'm craving a pepperoni roll now.
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jplatts
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:47 pm

loisencroach wrote:
I cheated and used faremeasure.com but I did notice PIT - SAN is 210 PDEW and wide open for AS (PIT-SEA was 202 PDEW). Also, PIT-PDX is 124 PDEW so odds are we won't see that anytime soon, maybe seasonally at some point. SJC-PIT is 90 so that'll never happen (maybe with F9...who knows).


Southwest could add PIT-SAN nonstop service if Alaska does not add PIT-SAN nonstop service.
 
sw733
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:47 pm

Runway28L wrote:
sw733 wrote:
jetsetter629 wrote:

If you ever arrived in SEA between 7:30p and 10p, the place is a mad house!


I never said it wasn't, but looking at tonight's flights during those times, aside from what I mentioned (PNW/Western Canada/Alaska), it's a lot of:

SoCal (possibly getting some connections but it's quite a bit out of the way)
Redeyes to the east coast (obviously not going to fly PIT-BOS via SEA)


So I'll stick to my statement that there aren't too many connections outside of PNW/Western Canada/Alaska, and even fewer that people flying out of PIT would be attracted to.

I doubt very many people are gonna use PIT-SEA for connections to Asia or the West Coast when there's more available options, mainly due to more alliance partners being present at ORD, SFO, LAX, etc.

AS is clearly going for O&D which according to the stats provided above seem sufficient enough to support this route alone.


That was kind of my point. Aside from regional connections, there isn't much and it's likely a primarily O&D route
 
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BWIAirport
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:55 pm

USAirALB wrote:
Why does AS seem to avoid running red eyes to the East Coast?

A red eye SEA-XXX and then a XXX-SEA am departure would be perfect for connections.

They offer two redeyes to BWI alone (SAN and LAX)
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:56 pm

727LOVER wrote:
How long since US was flying this route? 2006 I'm guessing


The article states it was 2007, so good memory by you to be within a year.

sw733 wrote:
Not much other than within the Pacific NW/British Columbia/Alaska. But they must feel there's a pretty good O&D market.


That is where their frequent flyers are located, AS has made great profits in taking people in AK & the NW to the rest of the country, I know PIT has been on the radar for awhile.

jetsetter629 wrote:
sw733 wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
ooslc wrote:
Saw on Facebook that AS is starting SEA-PIT.

Starts Sept. 6 2018. Daily 737.

Dept SEA 8:25am arrive PIT 4:10pm
Dept PIT 5:20pm arrive SEA 7:50pm

Source:
https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2017-11- ... Pittsburgh
Just in time for low season in Seattle! What kind of connections do these times allow?


Not much other than within the Pacific NW/British Columbia/Alaska. But they must feel there's a pretty good O&D market.


If you ever arrived in SEA between 7:30p and 10p, the place is a mad house!


That is when the Hawaii flights land, many of the east coast arrivals & the departures off to MT, ID, OR, the rest of WA, & AK. There are also a few departures out of SEA that leave at midnight to Asia. Mad house is correct & honestly PDX is similar for AS at that same time period.
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AAvgeek744
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:57 pm

USAirALB wrote:
Why does AS seem to avoid running red eyes to the East Coast?

A red eye SEA-XXX and then a XXX-SEA am departure would be perfect for connections.


While some not considered east coast, it's not like they don't have red-eyes: ATL,AUS,BOS,ORD,DFW,IAH,EWR,MCO all have red-eyes. I suspect we will see more filling in the blanks.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:02 pm

I was wondering when AS would finally give SEA-PIT a try! If AS can make places like OMA and TPA work I see no reason why PIT should be any different. I would certainly not be surprised to see quite a bit of capacity reallocated from highly competitive routes inherited from VX to niche routes like these in the coming years...
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FA9295
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:03 pm

USAirALB wrote:
Why does AS seem to avoid running red eyes to the East Coast?

A red eye SEA-XXX and then a XXX-SEA am departure would be perfect for connections.


They have a lot of red-eye flights from PDX, though not as much from SEA for whatever reason...
 
packmedic
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:06 pm

AAvgeek744 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
Why does AS seem to avoid running red eyes to the East Coast?

A red eye SEA-XXX and then a XXX-SEA am departure would be perfect for connections.


While some not considered east coast, it's not like they don't have red-eyes: ATL,AUS,BOS,ORD,DFW,IAH,EWR,MCO all have red-eyes. I suspect we will see more filling in the blanks.


Add to that both JFKs (SEA/PDX), BWI, and VX's SFO-RDU (part of AAG)
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11725Flyer
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:14 pm

loisencroach wrote:
There were some incentives involved:

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/de ... 1711150185


I hope it's successful. If PIT does land HQ2, look for DL to join AS on the route.
 
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flymco753
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:37 pm

11725Flyer wrote:
loisencroach wrote:
There were some incentives involved:

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/de ... 1711150185


I hope it's successful. If PIT does land HQ2, look for DL to join AS on the route.
I actually give it only a month until DL announces it.
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phluser
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:50 pm

packmedic wrote:
AAvgeek744 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
Why does AS seem to avoid running red eyes to the East Coast?

A red eye SEA-XXX and then a XXX-SEA am departure would be perfect for connections.


While some not considered east coast, it's not like they don't have red-eyes: ATL,AUS,BOS,ORD,DFW,IAH,EWR,MCO all have red-eyes. I suspect we will see more filling in the blanks.


Add to that both JFKs (SEA/PDX), BWI, and VX's SFO-RDU (part of AAG)


Also VX's LAX-PHL and SFO-PHL which are only one flight per day, and re-introduced back into PHL, only as red-eyes.
 
phxsanslcpdx
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:58 pm

Definitely a win for PIT! And I think a win for AS as well... launching after Labor Day means they can try it and get several months of data at pretty much 0 opportunity cost before deciding whether to continue service over the summer (when there will be an opportunity cost). With AS claiming the subsidy, I assume there will not be money available to DL (or WN or F9) to launch a competing flight, which increases the odds of AS having this to themselves. And it keeps another gate at SEA occupied for a little longer, helping stave off other would-be users.

This isn't the spot to discuss whether AS should have an east coast hub (there are other threads for that), but if it's something AS management is considering, PIT would be a potential candidate, and this lets them dip their toes into that pond.
 
Delta757MD88
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:00 pm

AS also runs a SEA-EWR redeye
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AAvgeek744
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:20 pm

Delta757MD88 wrote:
AS also runs a SEA-EWR redeye


That was in my list. I was surprised there were none to the DC/Baltimore areas. I know DCA slots or gold and they may not want a red-eye on it, but IAD or BWI is doable.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:47 pm

Congratulations to PIT, I know many were pushing for this to happen!
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FLYKTPA
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:51 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
I was wondering when AS would finally give SEA-PIT a try! If AS can make places like OMA and TPA work I see no reason why PIT should be any different. I would certainly not be surprised to see quite a bit of capacity reallocated from highly competitive routes inherited from VX to niche routes like these in the coming years...

Alaska makes SEA-TPA work because the market is 500 PDEW
Huge fan of Tampa International Airport
 
SeaDoo
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:15 am

I am surprised they announced so early. I'm assuming they were trying to preempt someone else from starting it.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:20 am

SeaDoo wrote:
I am surprised they announced so early. I'm assuming they were trying to preempt someone else from starting it.


My guess is Spirit Airlines. NK dropped LAX, but still fly LAS and BWI. But I think PIT will be a good new city-pair.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:22 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
SeaDoo wrote:
I am surprised they announced so early. I'm assuming they were trying to preempt someone else from starting it.


My guess is Spirit Airlines. NK dropped LAX, but still fly LAS and BWI. But I think PIT will be a good new city-pair.

Just my 2 cents, but I think PIT probably tried to push the announcement a little early because Pittsburgh is pretty interested in getting Amazon HQ2...
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:41 am

Yeah agreed this sounds more like PIT throwing money for the SEA route for their Amazon HQ2 bid.
 
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admanager
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:56 am

Flight times are very consistent with AS east coast destinations such as BNA, CHS, RDU and TPA, all of which are served once daily (or less). So this model certainly works well for them.
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:37 am

Midwestindy wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
SeaDoo wrote:
I am surprised they announced so early. I'm assuming they were trying to preempt someone else from starting it.


My guess is Spirit Airlines. NK dropped LAX, but still fly LAS and BWI. But I think PIT will be a good new city-pair.

Just my 2 cents, but I think PIT probably tried to push the announcement a little early because Pittsburgh is pretty interested in getting Amazon HQ2...


You took the words right out of my mouth...
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ctrabs0114
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:42 am

jplatts wrote:
loisencroach wrote:
I cheated and used faremeasure.com but I did notice PIT - SAN is 210 PDEW and wide open for AS (PIT-SEA was 202 PDEW). Also, PIT-PDX is 124 PDEW so odds are we won't see that anytime soon, maybe seasonally at some point. SJC-PIT is 90 so that'll never happen (maybe with F9...who knows).


Southwest could add PIT-SAN nonstop service if Alaska does not add PIT-SAN nonstop service.


I saw in their master plan for the new terminal project that KSAN and KSEA were the two largest markets of the top 25 O&D destinations with no non-stop service from KPIT in 2013. Well, one down, one to go. WN certainly seems to make the most sense for a potential KPIT-KSAN service, in my opinion. I'm curious how KSJC and KPDX came into the discussion as I can't see much of a point to those markets (KSFO and KOAK seem like the likely options for a year-round non-stop from KPIT).
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Next: TBA
 
Jshank83
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:21 am

evank516 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
Why does AS seem to avoid running red eyes to the East Coast?

A red eye SEA-XXX and then a XXX-SEA am departure would be perfect for connections.



In a matter of two minutes I found 3 red eyes to the east coast from SEA: JFK, ATL, and MCO.


They are running one of the 2x daily to STL as a redeye in the summer also. That isn't east coast though but still a redeye.
 
loisencroach
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:53 pm

ctrabs0114 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
loisencroach wrote:
I cheated and used faremeasure.com but I did notice PIT - SAN is 210 PDEW and wide open for AS (PIT-SEA was 202 PDEW). Also, PIT-PDX is 124 PDEW so odds are we won't see that anytime soon, maybe seasonally at some point. SJC-PIT is 90 so that'll never happen (maybe with F9...who knows).


Southwest could add PIT-SAN nonstop service if Alaska does not add PIT-SAN nonstop service.


I saw in their master plan for the new terminal project that KSAN and KSEA were the two largest markets of the top 25 O&D destinations with no non-stop service from KPIT in 2013. Well, one down, one to go. WN certainly seems to make the most sense for a potential KPIT-KSAN service, in my opinion. I'm curious how KSJC and KPDX came into the discussion as I can't see much of a point to those markets (KSFO and KOAK seem like the likely options for a year-round non-stop from KPIT).


Whenever Alaska announces a new market I usually look at all possibilities post-SEA and PDX/SJC/SFO/SAN are naturally going to be looked at since they are also Alaska hubs/focus cities.
 
loisencroach
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:57 pm

loisencroach wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:
jplatts wrote:

Southwest could add PIT-SAN nonstop service if Alaska does not add PIT-SAN nonstop service.


I saw in their master plan for the new terminal project that KSAN and KSEA were the two largest markets of the top 25 O&D destinations with no non-stop service from KPIT in 2013. Well, one down, one to go. WN certainly seems to make the most sense for a potential KPIT-KSAN service, in my opinion. I'm curious how KSJC and KPDX came into the discussion as I can't see much of a point to those markets (KSFO and KOAK seem like the likely options for a year-round non-stop from KPIT).


Whenever Alaska announces a new market I usually look at all possibilities post-SEA and PDX/SJC/SFO/SAN/LAX are naturally going to be looked at since they are also Alaska hubs/focus cities. Not implying that they are all going to get nonstops to PIT - I'm just looking at whether there's a possibility.
 
F9Animal
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:04 pm

I know US did well on the SEA to PIT route. I worked for US before all the mergers, and the flights were always full. If I recall, we had a 321 on the route for awhile.

I am certain AS will do really good on it.
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wedgetail737
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:34 am

F9Animal wrote:
I know US did well on the SEA to PIT route. I worked for US before all the mergers, and the flights were always full. If I recall, we had a 321 on the route for awhile.

I am certain AS will do really good on it.


US only did well on the SEA-PIT route because US had their major hub there. When US de-hubbed PIT...so did the flights. PHL and CLT prevailed.

But I do agree that the new AS flights will work out fine with PNW connections.
 
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:11 am

F9Animal wrote:
I know US did well on the SEA to PIT route. I worked for US before all the mergers, and the flights were always full. If I recall, we had a 321 on the route for awhile.

I am certain AS will do really good on it.


With PIT getting some traffic with the likes of Uber, Google etc, perhaps a PIT-SJC might be next!
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:07 am

vadodara wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
I know US did well on the SEA to PIT route. I worked for US before all the mergers, and the flights were always full. If I recall, we had a 321 on the route for awhile.

I am certain AS will do really good on it.


With PIT getting some traffic with the likes of Uber, Google etc, perhaps a PIT-SJC might be next!


I thought I recalled US doing SJC-PIT very briefly, but I can't find any confirmation of it.

I'm not surprised at all at AS adding SEA-PIT. What's left? Maybe a few more viable markets. US did up to 3x or 4x daily SEA-PIT back around 1999. They had one PHL non-stop back then.

What's nexr for AS? CLT? CMN? CVG? CLE? BDL? Not a lot left that they don't already serve.
 
phxsanslcpdx
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:47 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
I'm not surprised at all at AS adding SEA-PIT. What's left? Maybe a few more viable markets. US did up to 3x or 4x daily SEA-PIT back around 1999. They had one PHL non-stop back then.

What's nexr for AS? CLT? CMN? CVG? CLE? BDL? Not a lot left that they don't already serve.


Assuming you meant CMH not CMN, this looks like a good list. Add TUL. BUF and YYZ seem like decent possibilities, but might need to wait for the exchange rate to shift. Secondary California markets or various other seasonal ski destinations are possibilities too, I suppose.
 
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SANFan
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:13 pm

Congratulations to the PIT folks on landing a new carrier. I don't know what it took but the bottom line is, AAG will be serving PIT in 2018!

Whenever Alaska announces a new market I usually look at all possibilities post-SEA and PDX/SJC/SFO/SAN are naturally going to be looked at since they are also Alaska hubs/focus cities.

I thought that when the IND route was announced, and hoped to see SAN-IND also announced. But I admit that SFO-IND was.

I cheated and used faremeasure.com but I did notice PIT - SAN is 210 PDEW and wide open for AS (PIT-SEA was 202 PDEW). Also, PIT-PDX is 124 PDEW so odds are we won't see that anytime soon, maybe seasonally at some point. SJC-PIT is 90 so that'll never happen (maybe with F9...who knows.

Sorry but there's a problem with your "cheating". I don't use faremeasure but according to DOT (Table 6), the average O&D PDEW between PIT and SEA is actually ~95 for 2017 - that's for Q1 & Q2. SAN-PIT shows an average PDEW for 2017 of ~100, about the same as SEA. (And the correct figure for PDX-PIT is actually ~51PDEW.)

With those numbers, which are also reported in the PIT Post-Gazette article linked earlier in the thread, I would guess that SEA involves some rather healthy subsidies - not just incentives -- from Pittsburgh. (That guess is supported by the fact that AS and PIT have been working on this route, as stated in the P-Gazette article, "for 3 years", and PIT really wanted it!)

Unfortunately, SAN is not really anywhere close to nonstop numbers, and I doubt there will be any subsidies involved for SAN, and PDX is half as close...

bb
 
AaronPGH
Posts: 473
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:13 pm

Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:48 pm

I believe that there are subsidies on the table at PIT for any new unserved markets, although they scale based on the desire for each.
 
loisencroach
Posts: 611
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:18 pm

SANFan wrote:
Congratulations to the PIT folks on landing a new carrier. I don't know what it took but the bottom line is, AAG will be serving PIT in 2018!

Whenever Alaska announces a new market I usually look at all possibilities post-SEA and PDX/SJC/SFO/SAN are naturally going to be looked at since they are also Alaska hubs/focus cities.

I thought that when the IND route was announced, and hoped to see SAN-IND also announced. But I admit that SFO-IND was.

I cheated and used faremeasure.com but I did notice PIT - SAN is 210 PDEW and wide open for AS (PIT-SEA was 202 PDEW). Also, PIT-PDX is 124 PDEW so odds are we won't see that anytime soon, maybe seasonally at some point. SJC-PIT is 90 so that'll never happen (maybe with F9...who knows.

Sorry but there's a problem with your "cheating". I don't use faremeasure but according to DOT (Table 6), the average O&D PDEW between PIT and SEA is actually ~95 for 2017 - that's for Q1 & Q2. SAN-PIT shows an average PDEW for 2017 of ~100, about the same as SEA. (And the correct figure for PDX-PIT is actually ~51PDEW.)

With those numbers, which are also reported in the PIT Post-Gazette article linked earlier in the thread, I would guess that SEA involves some rather healthy subsidies - not just incentives -- from Pittsburgh. (That guess is supported by the fact that AS and PIT have been working on this route, as stated in the P-Gazette article, "for 3 years", and PIT really wanted it!)

Unfortunately, SAN is not really anywhere close to nonstop numbers, and I doubt there will be any subsidies involved for SAN, and PDX is half as close...

bb


Thanks for doing the work
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6314
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:08 pm

phxsanslcpdx wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
I'm not surprised at all at AS adding SEA-PIT. What's left? Maybe a few more viable markets. US did up to 3x or 4x daily SEA-PIT back around 1999. They had one PHL non-stop back then.

What's nexr for AS? CLT? CMN? CVG? CLE? BDL? Not a lot left that they don't already serve.


Assuming you meant CMH not CMN, this looks like a good list. Add TUL. BUF and YYZ seem like decent possibilities, but might need to wait for the exchange rate to shift. Secondary California markets or various other seasonal ski destinations are possibilities too, I suppose.


Yes, you're correct. I meant Columbus. I don't think a 737 Max can make it to Casablanca. I don't see BUF. Maybe YYZ, but AC already flies SEA-YYZ. Not sure about TUL. AA has a maintenance facility, but not sure what kind of business are there.

AS hasn't yet shown an interest in Q400 or E175 flights to secondary Canadian cities like Winnipeg, Lethridge, Regina, etc. They could do something like Rapid City too.

Then again, while I'm thinking of destinations they can try, AS is paying people to do this.

AS has done pretty well. They've only ever dropped a handful of destinations.
Last edited by BoeingGuy on Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: AS starting SEA-PIT

Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:08 pm

Duplicate post. Please delete

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