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flyingturtle
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Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Israeli passenger

Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:30 pm

I have not seen this mentioned yet...


An Israeli passenger booked a flight from FRA to BKK, but then his ticket was cancelled. A court in FRA (presumably the district court, Amtsgericht) said it cannot overrule Kuwaiti laws, which forbid Israeli nationals to enter Kuwait for the stop-over. So it ruled in favor of Kuwait Airways.

The case is already a bit older - the ticket seems to have been cancelled in March already.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42017874

German, March 2017: http://www.juedische-allgemeine.de/arti ... w/id/28134

A U.S. and a Swiss court have ruled otherwise, and compelled Kuwaiti Airways to carry Jewish/Israeli passengers.


David
Last edited by qf789 on Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:03 am

The USA case was different as that person just wanted to fly JFK-LHR. Today, all LHR service from KWI is terminator service. The German case required someone inadmissible into Kuwait to enter. How could Switzerland have found any differently from Germany?
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:09 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
How could Switzerland have found any differently from Germany?


I have really no idea, as the Swiss and German legal systems are more or less similar. Perhaps in Germany they have a clause in their Terms of Carriage that says the ticket would be void if it contravenes Kuwaiti law, and perhaps the Swiss court found that the passenger must not know the ins and outs of every Terms of Carriage to get a reasonable service.

David
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mercure1
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:10 am

:white:

As the court found, it had nothing to do with being Jewish, but instead rightfully everything to do with holding an Israeli passport, which is a passport not recognized nor allowed to transit Kuwait.
The airline offered to rebook the passenger on other airlines to BKK instead.
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Cubsrule
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:10 am

Why is it relevant that this passenger was Jewish? I assume there would have been no issue had the passenger held a German passport.
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LAXintl
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:13 am

Has nothing to do with religion, and not sure why OPer opted to mention it in title.

As article states
"German court has ruled that a Kuwaiti airline was within its rights to refuse to carry an Israeli citizen."

=
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zeke
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:20 am

This is an entirely sensible decision that is in line with established international laws and protocols.

Passengers must have the to either transit or enter a country when flying. If a passenger does not have that right, the airline gets fined, and normally then has to return the passenger back to the point of origin at their expense.

Some countries require at lest 6 months validity on the passport, and airline will deny those passengers boarding. Sometimes countries require passengers to have so much cash.

This is a simple case of the passenger not having a valid travel document for the intended route, which is a requirement the passenger takes their personal responsibility for.
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:20 am

Cubsrule wrote:
Why is it relevant that this passenger was Jewish? I assume there would have been no issue had the passenger held a German passport.


Actually, the passenger had either an Israeli stamp on his passport, or was an Israeli passport holder. Israel has no bilateral relations with any country in the Levant or Gulf other than Jordan. The case in the USA involved an Israeli citizen who wanted to fly what was then a fifth freedom service JFK to LHR, which KU subsequently gave up, and now all flights between KWI and JFK make an SNN stop on the outbound trip and fly nonstop on the return trip. (All LHR service is now KWI-LHR terminator.)
 
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zeke
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:24 am

LAXintl wrote:
Has nothing to do with religion, and not sure why OPer opted to mention it in title.

As article states
"German court has ruled that a Kuwaiti airline was within its rights to refuse to carry an Israeli citizen."

=


If the passenger had a valid travel document, regardless of they were a Jewish citizen or not they would be permitted to fly. You can be a Jewish citizen and have a German issued EU passport and would be permitted to fly, as that is a valid travel document for in intended route.
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32andBelow
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:25 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Why is it relevant that this passenger was Jewish? I assume there would have been no issue had the passenger held a German passport.


Actually, the passenger had either an Israeli stamp on his passport, or was an Israeli passport holder. Israel has no bilateral relations with any country in the Levant or Gulf other than Jordan. The case in the USA involved an Israeli citizen who wanted to fly what was then a fifth freedom service JFK to LHR, which KU subsequently gave up, and now all flights between KWI and JFK make an SNN stop on the outbound trip and fly nonstop on the return trip. (All LHR service is now KWI-LHR terminator.)

Israel doesn't stamp passports for this reason.
 
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:35 am

32andBelow wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Why is it relevant that this passenger was Jewish? I assume there would have been no issue had the passenger held a German passport.


Actually, the passenger had either an Israeli stamp on his passport, or was an Israeli passport holder. Israel has no bilateral relations with any country in the Levant or Gulf other than Jordan. The case in the USA involved an Israeli citizen who wanted to fly what was then a fifth freedom service JFK to LHR, which KU subsequently gave up, and now all flights between KWI and JFK make an SNN stop on the outbound trip and fly nonstop on the return trip. (All LHR service is now KWI-LHR terminator.)

Israel doesn't stamp passports for this reason.


Yes, I have also heard that having an Israeli stamp can be very problematic in a lot of countries. What I am not sure about is if they stopped this on individual request or if they just ended the practice altogether.
 
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:42 am

this whole story is just plain, stupid. Jews & gays would not want to go to an arab country, unless they have a death wish. Jews & gays are certainly not welcome in any arab country & arabs re not welcome in Israel.

Any airline can refuse any passenger, anywhere, without a reason.
 
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:45 am

FoxtrotSierra wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:

Actually, the passenger had either an Israeli stamp on his passport, or was an Israeli passport holder. Israel has no bilateral relations with any country in the Levant or Gulf other than Jordan. The case in the USA involved an Israeli citizen who wanted to fly what was then a fifth freedom service JFK to LHR, which KU subsequently gave up, and now all flights between KWI and JFK make an SNN stop on the outbound trip and fly nonstop on the return trip. (All LHR service is now KWI-LHR terminator.)

Israel doesn't stamp passports for this reason.


Yes, I have also heard that having an Israeli stamp can be very problematic in a lot of countries. What I am not sure about is if they stopped this on individual request or if they just ended the practice altogether.


The practice ended in 2012. Israel now issues a visa on paper.
 
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:06 am

USAOZ wrote:
this whole story is just plain, stupid. Jews & gays would not want to go to an arab country, unless they have a death wish. Jews & gays are certainly not welcome in any arab country & arabs re not welcome in Israel.

Any airline can refuse any passenger, anywhere, without a reason.


While your later statement is correct about who an airline can refuse, your first statement is not. There is a lot of business that takes place between many of the Arab countries and Israel. They may not officially recognize each other, but commercially that is foremost.
 
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:14 am

USAOZ wrote:
& arabs re not welcome in Israel.



Quite wrong. The permanent population of Israel is significantly Arab/non-Jewish Semitic (ie, "Arab") in composition.
 
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:27 am

In all circumstances, a passenger is responsible for having all necessary visas for their journey and in this case for ensuring they have a valid passport for travel. That includes travelling with a recognised passport. For the life of me I don't know why anyone on an Israelii passport would want to fly via Kuwait when there are so many options.
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:32 am

USAOZ wrote:
this whole story is just plain, stupid. Jews & gays would not want to go to an arab country, unless they have a death wish. Jews & gays are certainly not welcome in any arab country & arabs re not welcome in Israel.

Any airline can refuse any passenger, anywhere, without a reason.


Sorry to burst your bubble, several friends live in Dubai and go to a gay bar there. It depends on where you are in the middle east & what you do. They would never act gay in public, but they seem to ignore the bar because they want tourism money. Dubai has no oil and is tying to build a tourist business.
 
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:38 am

BTW most of the Middle east airlines will not fly an Israeli citizen, but they do fly Jewish passengers that are not from the county they do not recognize. If you don't believe this go onto Ku's website. If they did not fly Jews, then why can you order a Kosher meal just like you can order a Halal meal
 
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:56 am

Nothing weird about this ruling, they do not accept israel as a country... therefore Israeli passport is invalid for them, I was nearly refused service to Qatar because we are supposed to show 2K usd available, I don`t know these days, I wonder if I didn`t have this money....
 
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:52 am

zeke wrote:
If the passenger had a valid travel document, regardless of they were a Jewish citizen or not they would be permitted to fly. You can be a Jewish citizen and have a German issued EU passport and would be permitted to fly, as that is a valid travel document for in intended route.

I've never heard of Jewish citizenship. I know there is Israeli citizenship.
 
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:14 am

zeke wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Has nothing to do with religion, and not sure why OPer opted to mention it in title.

As article states
"German court has ruled that a Kuwaiti airline was within its rights to refuse to carry an Israeli citizen."

=


If the passenger had a valid travel document, regardless of they were a Jewish citizen or not they would be permitted to fly. You can be a Jewish citizen and have a German issued EU passport and would be permitted to fly, as that is a valid travel document for in intended route.

Can you please explain to me what a "Jewish citizen" is? I get "Israeli citizen" (many of which are not Jewish, and there are of course many Jews who are not Israeli citizens), but which country are you from if you are a "Jewish citizen"? If I understand you right, you mean to say that if you have double nationality, Israeli and German, then you can travel on your German passport? That is, of course, absolutely correct.
 
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:22 am

Gays are not welcome in Malaysia. But I didn't see any protests anywhere.
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dlphoenix
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:36 am

Next time try to purchase a ticket from FRA to MEX via MIA without a US visa, or a ticket from FRA to TLV while holding a Kuwaiti passport.

Happy Travels
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:53 am

I suppose stranger things have happened, but it seems a bit odd that Kuwaiti would even have accepted the reservation when I presume the Israeli passport information would have been entered upon booking the ticket? This leaves me wondering whether this individual might hold dual German-Israeli citizenship and was simply trying to make a political statement.
 
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:01 am

dlphoenix wrote:
Next time try to purchase a ticket from FRA to MEX via MIA without a US visa, or a ticket from FRA to TLV while holding a Kuwaiti passport.

Happy Travels
DLP


The former is definitely possible if visa waiver applies. However, why do so when one can fly nonstop to Mexico City, which is basically the way to go if one is traveling to anywhere in Central America and doesn't want a USA or Canadian stopover and is traveling from Asia (excluding Australasia) or Europe, as AM (and NH) fly from the Orient to Mexico.
 
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:51 am

afterburner wrote:
I've never heard of Jewish citizenship. I know there is Israeli citizenship.


Naturally your are very correct, I cannot was using the terminology of the thread title and op.
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:00 am

USAOZ wrote:
this whole story is just plain, stupid. Jews & gays would not want to go to an arab country, unless they have a death wish. Jews & gays are certainly not welcome in any arab country & arabs re not welcome in Israel.

Any airline can refuse any passenger, anywhere, without a reason.


Totally agree on your first point. But It’s reckless statements like your second that create the ripe environment for Middle East conflict.

People of Arab and Palestinian decent make up 20% of the population of Israel and even have some representation in government. They actually all get along quite well in Israel. It’s outside of Israel where everyone has an opinion but little vested interest that the trouble is caused.
 
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:01 am

pylon101 wrote:
Gays are not welcome in Malaysia. But I didn't see any protests anywhere.

There is no information about the holder's sexual orientation in a passport. So if gay people don't proclaim that they're gay, and don't act like they're gay during their stay, I don't think they will be denied to enter the country.
 
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:05 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
How could Switzerland have found any differently from Germany?


From my understanding of the linked German article, the Swiss ruling related to intra-European flights and, according the article, the airline subsequently suspended intra-European flights.

JRL3289 wrote:
but it seems a bit odd that Kuwaiti would even have accepted the reservation when I presume the Israeli passport information would have been entered upon booking the ticket?


The original booking appears to have been made through Expedia, not through Kuwait Airways. It is possible to book flights without providing passport details upfront, even when booked directly through an airline's web page. Naturally, passport details need to be provided before departure. It seems that it was only later, when the details were provided, that the booking was cancelled.

JRL3289 wrote:
was simply trying to make a political statement.


Possible as while Kuwaiti law may say that the airline can not do business with an Israeli, that isn't the case throughout the Gulf. Emirates, for example, will allow an Israeli passport holder to transit in Dubai provided they do not leave the airport and the connecting flight is within 24 hours. If the purchase was made for political reasons, it would explain why a more commonly known airline was not chosen.
 
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:09 am

32andBelow wrote:
Israel doesn't stamp passports for this reason.


They must certainly do, unless you ask them to do otherwise.
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:20 am

B777LRF wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Israel doesn't stamp passports for this reason.


They must certainly do, unless you ask them to do otherwise.


Not in my experience. It's rather the other way around and you must request a stamp.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Israeli passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:44 am

Since 24 September 2017, per presidential executive order nationals from Chad, Iran, Libya, North Korea, Somalia, Syria, Venezuela, and Yemen will be refused transport into the US by any carriers unless they hold permanent residency status. This decision is temporary until these countries comply with the demands of US government. German court in this case upheld a decision by Kuwait airlines to refuse transport to the plaintiff because they are enforcing a sovereign decision of Kuwait not to allow Israeli citizens in their country,
 
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:58 am

USAOZ wrote:
Any airline can refuse any passenger, anywhere, without a reason.

Incorrect because of your heavy use of “any”. That is the very reason why contract of carriages are written and publicly available to anyone who wishes to enter in a contract (i.e: ticket purchase) with an airline.
 
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:10 am

pylon101 wrote:
Gays are not welcome in Malaysia. But I didn't see any protests anywhere.


No gays have ever been denied entry into the country or deported for being gay.
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:18 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
pylon101 wrote:
Gays are not welcome in Malaysia. But I didn't see any protests anywhere.


No gays have ever been denied entry into the country or deported for being gay.


But fined, imprisoned and whipped.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:26 am

ushermittwoch wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
pylon101 wrote:
Gays are not welcome in Malaysia. But I didn't see any protests anywhere.


No gays have ever been denied entry into the country or deported for being gay.


But fined, imprisoned and whipped.


In Malaysia? Nope. I've plenty of gay friends and they're not whipped (at least, not involuntarily...), imprisoned or fined.
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
RalXWB
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Israeli passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:27 am

flyingturtle wrote:
I have not seen this mentioned yet...


A Jewish passenger booked a flight from FRA to BKK, but then his ticket was cancelled. A court in FRA (presumably the district court, Amtsgericht) said it cannot overrule Kuwaiti laws, which forbid Israeli nationals to enter Kuwait for the stop-over. So it ruled in favor of Kuwait Airways.

The case is already a bit older - the ticket seems to have been cancelled in March already.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42017874

German, March 2017: http://www.juedische-allgemeine.de/arti ... w/id/28134

A U.S. and a Swiss court have ruled otherwise, and compelled Kuwaiti Airways to carry Jewish/Israeli passengers.


David


I don´t want to be picky, but Amtsgericht is local court in English.
 
Noshow
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Israeli passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:01 am

The current decision was made by the Landgericht Frankfurt (state court), higher than some Amtsgericht (local court). You can still appeal within a month.
 
WIederling
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:12 am

32andBelow wrote:
Israel doesn't stamp passports for this reason.


You have no issue getting a second passport here (Germany) to avoid that problem ( incompatible places of travel :-).
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:20 am

ushermittwoch wrote:
B777LRF wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Israel doesn't stamp passports for this reason.


They must certainly do, unless you ask them to do otherwise.


Not in my experience. It's rather the other way around and you must request a stamp.
I'd certainly want a stamp in my passport whereever I travel, including Israel. I don't care, because it reminds me about the trip and that I was actually there. And if necessary, I'll use my other passport to travel to the Middle East.

In this case, to be honest, there's nothing to even discuss. Israeli passports are not allowed in Kuwait and that's it. As unfortunate as it is because it also effectively bans not just Jewish Israelis, but also the handful of Christian Israelis as well as the Arabs with Israeli citizenship, it is what it is.

That being said, don't they ask for the passport details during the reservation process? I was certainly asked about it by the travel agency the last times I flew via the US to Costa Rica and back, plus last year when I moved back to Costa Rica and flew via AMS and PTY. I'm not talking about entering your PNR information for the API check prior to check-in and the security interview for US flights, I'm talking about the reservation process. I don't know how KU works, but if they didn't verify the passport information before completing the reservation, then chances are there was a certain degree of negligence, not to mention if the reservation was done through a travel agency. While it wouldn't change the fact that the entry into Kuwait would have been denied to the affected Israeli passport holder (unless he showed a different passport with all required visas and documentations), you could still say KU/the travel agency was also negligent with the documents check during the reservation.
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MalevTU134
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:29 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
ushermittwoch wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:

No gays have ever been denied entry into the country or deported for being gay.


But fined, imprisoned and whipped.


In Malaysia? Nope. I've plenty of gay friends and they're not whipped (at least, not involuntarily...), imprisoned or fined.

Thank you, sir, for giving me the best laugh of the morning!! :lol:
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Israeli passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:29 am

The case in the USA, the flight was I remember JFK to LHR, was a Israeli citizen with dual citizenship, Israeli and USA. If he would have presented his USA passport he would have been able to fly. It was in my eyes a made up case. I do not know anything about the case in Switzerland.
In all cases it is not the point of the person being Jewish, but having an Israeli passport. If an Israeli of Arabian descent, being a Muslim or Christian, would try to travel to Kuwait on an Israeli passport, he would face the same problems as his Jewish neighbor with his Israeli passport.
It is especially hypocritical if USA posters, who's country promotes travel bans according to citizenship of certain countries, including persons with dual citizenship, are protesting here.
Are people, that are on the USA lists as banned to fly, able to use 5th freedom flights done by USA airlines, flights that do not touch or end in the USA?
 
WIederling
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Israeli passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:25 am

mjoelnir wrote:
In all cases it is not the point of the person being Jewish, but having an Israeli passport.


The preferred way of media insertion is as a blatantly anti jewish / anti semitic activity.
( though note not everybody gets hit in the same way :-)
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Pavlakakos
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Israeli passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:28 am

The big question of course is why would an Israeli citizen (as per article) book a FRA-BKK trip with Kuwait Airways.

I mean, FRA has no lack of options, even bargain tickets or charters that fly almost daily. Sounds like someone is just trying to find an excuse to provoke any kind of incident. Strange strange world we're living no doubt :)
 
RoySFlying
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:50 am

LTU932 wrote:
don't they ask for the passport details during the reservation process?


At the time of making a reservation the principal concerns are seat availability and processing payment. It is not necessary to check documents at that time. There are good reasons why bookings are permitted in advance of document checks. Depending on the reason for travel, a person may need to ensure that seats are available on specific dates but may need to renew an expired passport, for example. While a good travel agent will advise on passport and visa requirements, many on-line booking engines simply warn that it is the passengers' responsibility to ensure that they have valid travel documents.
 
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:59 am

andrefranca wrote:
Nothing weird about this ruling, they do not accept israel as a country... therefore Israeli passport is invalid for them, I was nearly refused service to Qatar because we are supposed to show 2K usd available, I don`t know these days, I wonder if I didn`t have this money....


Exactly, try flying on Air China with a Taiwanese passport. You won't.

The passenger in question refused to fly non stop instead..... mmmh... I am all for principle, but since he would only been flown back to Germany, why the hassle?

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Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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zkojq
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:15 am

rbavfan wrote:
BTW most of the Middle east airlines will not fly an Israeli citizen, but they do fly Jewish passengers that are not from the county they do not recognize. If you don't believe this go onto Ku's website. If they did not fly Jews, then why can you order a Kosher meal just like you can order a Halal meal

It's true. It's very common for members of the Australian Jewish dispora use Emirates to visit Israel; MEL/PER/SYD/BNE to DXB then DXB to LCA then get a cheap flight to TLV with Arkia or Israir. As long as you use your Australian passport for travel, it's fine.

USAOZ wrote:
Jews & gays would not want to go to an arab country, unless they have a death wish. Jews & gays are certainly not welcome in any arab country


Whilst most of the Middle East would be a pretty shitty place to live if you're gay or Jewish, it's not like the authorities are going to pull you off the plane and stone you to death because they think you might be jewish/gay etc.

Pavlakakos wrote:
The big question of course is why would an Israeli citizen (as per article) book a FRA-BKK trip with Kuwait Airways.

Considering the amount of excess capacity between Europe and BKK, it's mind-boggling that someone would willingly choose to fly with an airline as diabolical as KU.
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RoySFlying
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:21 am

tommy1808 wrote:
The passenger in question refused to fly non stop instead..... mmmh... I am all for principle, but since he would only been flown back to Germany, why the hassle?


No need to fly back to Germany as boarding would have been refused. And that may have been precisely the aim. The object may well be to pressurize countries into making life hard for Kuwait Airways. By raising the threat of routes being cancelled, the hope is that the policy of denying flights to Israeli passport holders will be abandoned and Israel gains greater recognition. Certainly, the campaigners have the Mayor of Frankfurt on side. He is quoted as saying: "An airline that practices discrimination and anti-Semitism by refusing to fly Israeli passengers should not be allowed to take off or land in Frankfurt,"

Now whether a higher Court will reverse the decision, or whether Germany will rescind Kuwait Airway's landing rights remains to be seen. If the latter were to happen, it would almost certainly mean that Lufthansa would lose rights to Kuwait in retaliation. I'm sure Lufthansa won't mind ceding the passengers to someone like Emirates :wink:
 
tommy1808
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:50 am

RoySFlying wrote:
Now whether a higher Court will reverse the decision, or whether Germany will rescind Kuwait Airway's landing rights remains to be seen. If the latter were to happen, it would almost certainly mean that Lufthansa would lose rights to Kuwait in retaliation. I'm sure Lufthansa won't mind ceding the passengers to someone like Emirates :wink:


Since there are a number of nations Germany doesn't recognise, neither country nor passport, this would potentially spell Desaster for German airlines. So...

Imagin the tidalwave US airlines would face over the travel ban. "Oh, that is US law? That is your problem, nor mine!".

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Court rules in favor of Kuwait Airways when it decided not to carry a Jewish passenger

Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:10 pm

RoySFlying wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
The passenger in question refused to fly non stop instead..... mmmh... I am all for principle, but since he would only been flown back to Germany, why the hassle?


No need to fly back to Germany as boarding would have been refused. And that may have been precisely the aim. The object may well be to pressurize countries into making life hard for Kuwait Airways. By raising the threat of routes being cancelled, the hope is that the policy of denying flights to Israeli passport holders will be abandoned and Israel gains greater recognition. Certainly, the campaigners have the Mayor of Frankfurt on side. He is quoted as saying: "An airline that practices discrimination and anti-Semitism by refusing to fly Israeli passengers should not be allowed to take off or land in Frankfurt,"

Now whether a higher Court will reverse the decision, or whether Germany will rescind Kuwait Airway's landing rights remains to be seen. If the latter were to happen, it would almost certainly mean that Lufthansa would lose rights to Kuwait in retaliation. I'm sure Lufthansa won't mind ceding the passengers to someone like Emirates :wink:


The decision has involved a Landgericht after it was tried to get a decision in a summary proceedings in the Oberlandesgericht was refused. This decision is therefore not on the lowest stage of the judicial system in Germany, that would be an Amtsgericht. The decision can be appealed to the Oberlandesgericht in Frankfurt.

I can hardly imagine Germany rescinding Kuwait Airway's landing rights without a reversal in the decision by a higher court. IMO that is an unlikely outcome.

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