Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Galwayman wrote:Great news , Seattle has usually had high fares to Europe so hopefully the yield will be good .
At the end of the day , any North America destination Icelandajr/ wow can do , Aer Lingus can do better ....
mjoelnir wrote:Competition for Icelandair KEF - SEA. FI runs 1 daily 757-200 to Seattle. In summer twice daily. Sometimes the 757 or one 757-200 is replaced by a 767-300ER or one flight is doubled up. The bigger part of the KEF-SEA-KEF passengers are transfer passengers in KEF.
Galwayman wrote:Great news , Seattle has usually had high fares to Europe so hopefully the yield will be good .
At the end of the day , any North America destination Icelandajr/ wow can do , Aer Lingus can do better ....
Jambost wrote:I do wonder if the likes of Crystal or Topflight have plans to use Aer Lingus to access the local ski resorts. Aer Lingus could use all the help they can get to keep the flights full through the winter. Have thought about using Seattle to access Whistler, but could the resorts outside Seattle be worth serving?
flyoregon wrote:Awesome news for Seattle! Hopefully they partner with Alaska!
I do have to ask though, and I'm not saying this from a slightly jealous point of view, but at what point does the international air service bubble at SEA burst?
There just seems to be a lot of capacity TATL and TPAC for a city the size of Seattle...and I don't mean it's small by any means, it just seems like a lot. Plus the airport itself is bursting at the seams. I personally try to avoid going through SeaTac anymore for that reason.
Anyway, wishing the best for AerLingus on this new route!
flybynight wrote:Don't fly to Seattle to ski. If skiing was part of the decision making they would have better off flying to Vancouver. Whistler is one of the best skiing areas on the planet, but the ski areas outside of Seattle are OK, but frequently there are issues with fog and rain (especially at Snoqualmie, less so at Stevens Pass and Crystal Mountain).
sxf24 wrote:BA operates 10-14 weekly LHR-SEA flights. I think that gives IAG pretty good insight into demand and almost certainly means that DUB-SEA is not a huge risk. It will be interesting to see if LHR-SEA is scaled back with the launch of DUB-SEA, allowing growth from LHR to another destination.
by738 wrote:Nice. If I can call it though and say I dont think it will last. Just a hunch nothing more.
Jambost wrote:I do wonder if the likes of Crystal or Topflight have plans to use Aer Lingus to access the local ski resorts. Aer Lingus could use all the help they can get to keep the flights full through the winter. Have thought about using Seattle to access Whistler, but could the resorts outside Seattle be worth serving?
wedgetail737 wrote:sxf24 wrote:BA operates 10-14 weekly LHR-SEA flights. I think that gives IAG pretty good insight into demand and almost certainly means that DUB-SEA is not a huge risk. It will be interesting to see if LHR-SEA is scaled back with the launch of DUB-SEA, allowing growth from LHR to another destination.
Somehow I doubt it. BA has been playing with flying resources throughout the year with 777-200ER's, 777-300ER's and 747-400's. But I don't think the DUB-SEA flights will mean less LHR flights. Even recently, other European carriers are upping their equipment like LH with the 747-8i's and Virgin with the A340-600's. You also have Norwegian to LGW with the 789's. I imagine Eurofly will be back next year. Norwegian will begin CDG (I think) next summer. Who else? Level to BCN?
Who is next from Asia? TG seems serious to fly 789's to SEA from BKK (nonstop)...it was on a different thread. In the past, there had been threads about PR and maybe even JL and CI starting SEA. Of course, TG and JL would be restarts. PR would be the new player.
Very busy times at SEA!!
flybynight wrote:wedgetail737 wrote:sxf24 wrote:BA operates 10-14 weekly LHR-SEA flights. I think that gives IAG pretty good insight into demand and almost certainly means that DUB-SEA is not a huge risk. It will be interesting to see if LHR-SEA is scaled back with the launch of DUB-SEA, allowing growth from LHR to another destination.
Somehow I doubt it. BA has been playing with flying resources throughout the year with 777-200ER's, 777-300ER's and 747-400's. But I don't think the DUB-SEA flights will mean less LHR flights. Even recently, other European carriers are upping their equipment like LH with the 747-8i's and Virgin with the A340-600's. You also have Norwegian to LGW with the 789's. I imagine Eurofly will be back next year. Norwegian will begin CDG (I think) next summer. Who else? Level to BCN?
Who is next from Asia? TG seems serious to fly 789's to SEA from BKK (nonstop)...it was on a different thread. In the past, there had been threads about PR and maybe even JL and CI starting SEA. Of course, TG and JL would be restarts. PR would be the new player.
Very busy times at SEA!!
Is Virgin using 346's? I only have seen 789's coming into SEA. A 346 would be neat.
obelau24 wrote:My fingers are crossed that AS will tie-in with EI and that will give me access to try out EI’s business class which looks nice. I’ve always been so attracted by EI and have always wanted to see their Irish hospitality.
by738 wrote:Nice. If I can call it though and say I dont think it will last. Just a hunch nothing more.
MSPNWA wrote:The rich get richer. SEA has an insane amount of European service for its seize and economy. At some point that bubble has to start leaking.
Jambost wrote:Thanks everyone for your opinions and advice.
I can only hope Air Canada/Rouge will respond with year round flights to YVR, or maybe should try summer skiing in Whistler... who needs snow anyway!
I do wish Aer Lingus the best for Seattle, and also for AC up in Vancouver
MSPNWA wrote:The rich get richer. SEA has an insane amount of European service for its seize and economy. At some point that bubble has to start leaking.
masgniw wrote:MSPNWA wrote:The rich get richer. SEA has an insane amount of European service for its seize and economy. At some point that bubble has to start leaking.
Why? As of 2015, Seattle was the 12th largest economy in the US and has been growing rapidly. They have ~9 European destinations (including the seasonal-only and planned flights). I'd hardly call that "insane".
EDIT: By contrast, LAX has 21 by my count (including a lot more destinations with multiple carriers)
flybynight wrote:What is this based on?
Per my previous post, Seattle metro is just under 4 million people. Ireland's total population, by the way is about 4.7 million.
Some of the biggest international businesses are located in Seattle - Boeing, Microsoft, Starbucks and Amazon come to mind.
Portland, OR and Vancouver, BC are nearby. Tourism is big in the summer.
Airlines do their research before selecting cities and while AS' main hub is SEA, please remember AS doesn't fly internationally (beyond a few flights in Canada, Mexico and Costa Rico). Seattle depends on airliners to fly here. DL, of course, has a hub now here and that limits certain airlines from flying here (like KLM or AF).
Did you know that Seattle has more construction cranes than all of CA and NYC combined right now? This place is growing like a weed.
MSPNWA wrote:masgniw wrote:MSPNWA wrote:The rich get richer. SEA has an insane amount of European service for its seize and economy. At some point that bubble has to start leaking.
Why? As of 2015, Seattle was the 12th largest economy in the US and has been growing rapidly. They have ~9 European destinations (including the seasonal-only and planned flights). I'd hardly call that "insane".
EDIT: By contrast, LAX has 21 by my count (including a lot more destinations with multiple carriers)
Compare SEA service to cities/economies of similar or larger size (DFW, IAH, WSH, PHL, MIA, ATL, SFO, DTW, MSP, DEN, etc.) . And then also negatively adjust for competitor's better hub structures and SEA's poor geography for European connections. The quick conclusion is that SEA is extremely well-served. One can make a very strong argument that its the most over-served airport in the country on a relative basis. The addition of DUB adds to to it. DFW, IAH, DTW, and MSP don't have DUB service, and ATL is only seasonal. If we cross the border, YVR also only has seasonal service, and only next year is YUL getting service. SEA-DUB is a big outlier.
The fact that SEA is only 9 destinations short of LAX is further evidence of how well-served it is. That's crazy.flybynight wrote:
What is this based on?
Per my previous post, Seattle metro is just under 4 million people. Ireland's total population, by the way is about 4.7 million.
Some of the biggest international businesses are located in Seattle - Boeing, Microsoft, Starbucks and Amazon come to mind.
Portland, OR and Vancouver, BC are nearby. Tourism is big in the summer.
Airlines do their research before selecting cities and while AS' main hub is SEA, please remember AS doesn't fly internationally (beyond a few flights in Canada, Mexico and Costa Rico). Seattle depends on airliners to fly here. DL, of course, has a hub now here and that limits certain airlines from flying here (like KLM or AF).
Did you know that Seattle has more construction cranes than all of CA and NYC combined right now? This place is growing like a weed.
See above. And the SEA economy is not particularly special to Europe. In one significant metric - the number of Fortune 500 companies - the state of WA (and OR too) are below average. In growth rates, the DFW, IAH, PHX, and DEN areas, among others, are growing at an even faster rate than SEA. None of them are getting DUB. So not only are DFW and IAH much larger, growing faster, and have superior economies, they see DUB getting a flight first. So yes, SEA is insanely well-served.
readytotaxi wrote:Well done. That US pre-clearence must be becoming a very busy experience.
obelau24 wrote:My fingers are crossed that AS will tie-in with EI and that will give me access to try out EI’s business class which looks nice. I’ve always been so attracted by EI and have always wanted to see their Irish hospitality.
rwsea wrote:MSPNWA wrote:masgniw wrote:
Why? As of 2015, Seattle was the 12th largest economy in the US and has been growing rapidly. They have ~9 European destinations (including the seasonal-only and planned flights). I'd hardly call that "insane".
EDIT: By contrast, LAX has 21 by my count (including a lot more destinations with multiple carriers)
Compare SEA service to cities/economies of similar or larger size (DFW, IAH, WSH, PHL, MIA, ATL, SFO, DTW, MSP, DEN, etc.) . And then also negatively adjust for competitor's better hub structures and SEA's poor geography for European connections. The quick conclusion is that SEA is extremely well-served. One can make a very strong argument that its the most over-served airport in the country on a relative basis. The addition of DUB adds to to it. DFW, IAH, DTW, and MSP don't have DUB service, and ATL is only seasonal. If we cross the border, YVR also only has seasonal service, and only next year is YUL getting service. SEA-DUB is a big outlier.
The fact that SEA is only 9 destinations short of LAX is further evidence of how well-served it is. That's crazy.flybynight wrote:
What is this based on?
Per my previous post, Seattle metro is just under 4 million people. Ireland's total population, by the way is about 4.7 million.
Some of the biggest international businesses are located in Seattle - Boeing, Microsoft, Starbucks and Amazon come to mind.
Portland, OR and Vancouver, BC are nearby. Tourism is big in the summer.
Airlines do their research before selecting cities and while AS' main hub is SEA, please remember AS doesn't fly internationally (beyond a few flights in Canada, Mexico and Costa Rico). Seattle depends on airliners to fly here. DL, of course, has a hub now here and that limits certain airlines from flying here (like KLM or AF).
Did you know that Seattle has more construction cranes than all of CA and NYC combined right now? This place is growing like a weed.
See above. And the SEA economy is not particularly special to Europe. In one significant metric - the number of Fortune 500 companies - the state of WA (and OR too) are below average. In growth rates, the DFW, IAH, PHX, and DEN areas, among others, are growing at an even faster rate than SEA. None of them are getting DUB. So not only are DFW and IAH much larger, growing faster, and have superior economies, they see DUB getting a flight first. So yes, SEA is insanely well-served.
SEA is much larger than MSP or DEN, and the state of Washington has 1.5m+ more people than either Minnesota or Colorado. It also has a much larger business base and one that is more apt towards international travel. Best Buy and Target aren't flying people to Europe and Asia to the level that Microsoft, Amazon, Boeing, and Starbucks are. Texas is very far south and neither Dallas nor Houston are tourist destinations. In fact, of your list, only SEA and DEN could be considered international tourist destinations with a pull of leisure pax from Europe.
As someone else pointed out, SEA may have a lot of destinations but the frequencies are lower than on trunk hub-to-hub routes like AMS/DTW-MSP or DFW-LHR. SEA has the benefit of not being dominated by a single carrier that forces everyone through a hub on the other side of the pond. And as others have mentioned, PDX and YVR also feed SEA to a certain extent. Living in PDX, I would connect at SEA in a heartbeat over any other domestic airport, and certainly won't fly through the midwest or east coast if there is any other option. It adds hours to the routing and means more time on some crappy domestic narrowbody plane.
VCEflyboy wrote:Great news. Will this be seasonal or year-round?
Galwayman wrote:The Icelandair service is pretty inefficient
by738 wrote:Nice. If I can call it though and say I dont think it will last. Just a hunch nothing more.
NichCage wrote:Didn't expect Aer Lingus to annouce Seattle, but it does make sense considering the technology connections in the Seattle area. Hopefully it will be a success.
Otherwise, are all EI flights operating at T2? T2 is pretty busy and not all jet bridges can be used at once. I have also seen on google maps A320's and A330's of EI at T1 which doesn't have US Pre-clearance I believe.
Galwayman wrote:- "At the end of the day, any destination in North America that Aer Lingus can do, Icelandair can do better if the end point of the Journey is in the Nordic countries. It is nice to see Aer Lingus copying the Icelandair system of routes" -
The Icelandair service is pretty inefficient , the aircraft timings don't work and theyre just chasing the low yield SAS abandoned years ago
The front end corporate contracts with Microsoft and Amazon are low hanging fruit for EI - the unparalleled transit traffic via the forthcoming FR deal means this will be very very successful . Nothing can match Dublin ...