Solidus wrote:

stylo777 wrote:

RAM 789 also did a go-around. Strange...

Did you mistype flight number? There is completely different flight found on https://flightaware.com/live/flight/RAM789

sorry, wanted to say Royal Air Maroc B787-900.. flight number was AT910
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 0#20111740

stylo777 wrote:

Solidus wrote:

stylo777 wrote:

RAM 789 also did a go-around. Strange...

Did you mistype flight number? There is completely different flight found on https://flightaware.com/live/flight/RAM789

sorry, wanted to say Royal Air Maroc B787-900.. flight number was AT910
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 0#20111740

Quite interesting. I noticed that Arrival / Departures list in FR not refreshing with statuses.

Now FR is normalized. Airport website showing only TK flights in Arrivals / Departure tables.

https://www.istanbulhavalimani.com/en/p ... /departure

Weird.

It is pretty quite so far this morning. I see a TK GVA-IST flight holding. SAW seems busier. I guess it will all be back to normal soon.

FR24 hasn't switched the airport codes, so all flights appear to be going to Ataturk but actually land at the new airport. A bit confusing, but I guess these details will work themselves out in the coming few days.

ramzi wrote:

FR24 hasn't switched the airport codes, so all flights appear to be going to Ataturk but actually land at the new airport. A bit confusing, but I guess these details will work themselves out in the coming few days.

No, the IST code is transfered to new airport while the Ataturk get ISL.

ramzi wrote:

FR24 hasn't switched the airport codes, so all flights appear to be going to Ataturk but actually land at the new airport. A bit confusing, but I guess these details will work themselves out in the coming few days.

There are no flights going to Ataturk since 06.04.2019 2 a.m officially. There was some delayed flights arrived a little later, but these are exclusions

Does anyone know if there will be a documentary about the move by National Geographic? They were in talks with TK about this some time ago but no idea if it‘s materialized. This is the most recent article I was able to find.

https://www.dailysabah.com/istanbul/201 ... ul-airport

Here's the new airport on the first day of operations (06 April):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf6TzCJ96Pk

And here's Ataturk airport on the last day (05 April):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEx0FcbiAJw&t=7s

This article shows a video of the last pax 777 leaving and doing a flypast:
https://www.haberturk.com/en-az-3-saat- ... 39-ekonomi

ramzi wrote:

FR24 hasn't switched the airport codes, so all flights appear to be going to Ataturk but actually land at the new airport. A bit confusing, but I guess these details will work themselves out in the coming few days.

Another problem is that Flightradar doesn't seem to have anyone that lives close to the new airport, so all of the flights disappear from the map when they go below 1000ft. You can't see them when they're on the ground like you can at most airports. I guess the nearest person with the equipment lives in Istanbul somewhere.

according to FR24, almost all departing flights today were delayed (except for only a handful). anyone know the reason?
don't get me wrong, still an astonishing achievement to transfer from one airport to the other in just few days and most of these flights still arrived ontime at their destination.
it just caught my attention and wanted to ask...

peterinlisbon wrote:

ramzi wrote:

FR24 hasn't switched the airport codes, so all flights appear to be going to Ataturk but actually land at the new airport. A bit confusing, but I guess these details will work themselves out in the coming few days.

Another problem is that Flightradar doesn't seem to have anyone that lives close to the new airport, so all of the flights disappear from the map when they go below 1000ft. You can't see them when they're on the ground like you can at most airports. I guess the nearest person with the equipment lives in Istanbul somewhere.

I assume this is a radar issue?

Another video of the parked aircraft from today
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GplaVw65xAw

VanBosch wrote:

peterinlisbon wrote:

ramzi wrote:

FR24 hasn't switched the airport codes, so all flights appear to be going to Ataturk but actually land at the new airport. A bit confusing, but I guess these details will work themselves out in the coming few days.

Another problem is that Flightradar doesn't seem to have anyone that lives close to the new airport, so all of the flights disappear from the map when they go below 1000ft. You can't see them when they're on the ground like you can at most airports. I guess the nearest person with the equipment lives in Istanbul somewhere.

I assume this is a radar issue?

No, it actually has nothing to do with radar even though it has that name. The flightradar24 system is based on capturing the signal from nearby aircraft's transponders which transmit their position, speed and a bunch of other information which is uploaded to the internet and their computer figures out the flight number and puts it on the map. People have these devices in their homes and just plug them in and set them up to connect to their wifi network. Because the new airport doesn't have anyone that lives nearby, the transponder signal stops reaching flightradar24's nearest device when the planes descend below 1000ft. Until someone that lives near the new airport gets a device we won't be able to see the planes that are on the ground there. This is also why planes seem to "disappear" when they fly over uninhabited areas.

The Turks are truly wizards of construction. How they built such an airport from scratch in a mere few years is beyond me! The Germans need to learn (funny that given the number of Turks in Germany, they should have already!

The new airport looks just grand and awesome ... both airside and landside and inside the Terminal. Can't wait to fly through!

What is the procedure for people who parked cars at Ataturk before it closed but only returned to Istanbul after the new airport had opened? Will there be buses transporting arriving passengers to the new airport to pick up their cars or will they have to find their own way there? Or will the vehicles be towed?

What's happen. Following incoming flow to IST (btw, do they run already on regular capacity ?) I found B737 to Catania, circling after take off...
https://www.flightradar24.com/THY1SH/2014f6eb

Looking at the IGA departures only 6 TK flights between 9-11am this morning.
Flightradar24 suggest TK is operating at 60-70% capacity.
Flights departing, landing taking the long way around, making strange turns even though there is no apparent heavy traffic in the air.

I noticed the same. Maybe pilots of Non-TK airlines not properly informed on approach schemes to new airport? I saw some flights kinda going to ISL, but maybe this was normal.

TK787 wrote:

Looking at the IGA departures only 6 TK flights between 9-11am this morning.
Flightradar24 suggest TK is operating at 60-70% capacity.
Flights departing, landing taking the long way around, making strange turns even though there is no apparent heavy traffic in the air.

Primarily this happens with Non-TK as I noticed.

Sounds like transition went quite well without any operational meltdowns.

Congrats to all involved. Turks seem to be up there with the Chinese in pulling off grand projects.

Compared to first days 148 flights, TK is planning 421 flights serving over 85,000 pax on its second day at IST.

TK787 wrote:

Compared to first days 148 flights, TK is planning 421 flights serving over 85,000 pax on its second day at IST.

Actually today is third day, isn't it? Or they plan this for second full day at IST, in other words today.

ASA wrote:

The Turks are truly wizards of construction. How they built such an airport from scratch in a mere few years is beyond me! The Germans need to learn (funny that given the number of Turks in Germany, they should have already!

You can do that when you sacrifice working conditions and safety for speed...

ASA wrote:

The Turks are truly wizards of construction. How they built such an airport from scratch in a mere few years is beyond me! The Germans need to learn (funny that given the number of Turks in Germany, they should have already!

Well, I'd like a comparison between German and Turkish safety laws, building regulations, worker payments, working time laws etc.

Better delay an airport construction by an indefinite time than killing a number of workers in construction by ignoring safety rules. And how about illegally arresting workers after they go on strike because paychecks aren't handed out on time? Would never happen in Germany and I am really glad about that. I have been working on building sites for power plants all over the world (including Turkey and Germany), I know that both countries can ensure safe working conditions if they want. But with new IST, it seemed more important to open the airport on the target date than safety.

Don't get me wrong, I don't oppose the new airport (I am glad that I never have to set a foot to Atatürk airport again, I hated that airport), but please refrain from such unreflected comments, if you have no idea what you are talking about.

TK787 wrote:

Looking at the IGA departures only 6 TK flights between 9-11am this morning.
Flightradar24 suggest TK is operating at 60-70% capacity.
Flights departing, landing taking the long way around, making strange turns even though there is no apparent heavy traffic in the air.

Do not forget that the new airport is also new to the air traffic controllers.
Those strange turns are the new arrivals into IST. If you look at the STARs (Standart Instrument Arrival Routes) you will notice, that they have those turns included. Those turns wil allow directs to shorten remaining distance to the runway. This is called point merge.

I guess that ATC is not using those directs excessively during the first few days, as all those procedures are newly designed.

By the way: I notice also TK doing those turns.

conaly wrote:

ASA wrote:

The Turks are truly wizards of construction. How they built such an airport from scratch in a mere few years is beyond me! The Germans need to learn (funny that given the number of Turks in Germany, they should have already!

Well, I'd like a comparison between German and Turkish safety laws, building regulations, worker payments, working time laws etc.

Better delay an airport construction by an indefinite time than killing a number of workers in construction by ignoring safety rules. And how about illegally arresting workers after they go on strike because paychecks aren't handed out on time? Would never happen in Germany and I am really glad about that. I have been working on building sites for power plants all over the world (including Turkey and Germany), I know that both countries can ensure safe working conditions if they want. But with new IST, it seemed more important to open the airport on the target date than safety.

Don't get me wrong, I don't oppose the new airport (I am glad that I never have to set a foot to Atatürk airport again, I hated that airport), but please refrain from such unreflected comments, if you have no idea what you are talking about.

Berlin's new airport is really safe. They don't allow any dangerous things such as planes or passengers there.

peterinlisbon wrote:

conaly wrote:

ASA wrote:

The Turks are truly wizards of construction. How they built such an airport from scratch in a mere few years is beyond me! The Germans need to learn (funny that given the number of Turks in Germany, they should have already!

Well, I'd like a comparison between German and Turkish safety laws, building regulations, worker payments, working time laws etc.

Better delay an airport construction by an indefinite time than killing a number of workers in construction by ignoring safety rules. And how about illegally arresting workers after they go on strike because paychecks aren't handed out on time? Would never happen in Germany and I am really glad about that. I have been working on building sites for power plants all over the world (including Turkey and Germany), I know that both countries can ensure safe working conditions if they want. But with new IST, it seemed more important to open the airport on the target date than safety.

Don't get me wrong, I don't oppose the new airport (I am glad that I never have to set a foot to Atatürk airport again, I hated that airport), but please refrain from such unreflected comments, if you have no idea what you are talking about.

Berlin's new airport is really safe. They don't allow any dangerous things such as planes or passengers there.

There is nice parody concerning this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JFjApe7zRdQ

michi wrote:

TK787 wrote:

Looking at the IGA departures only 6 TK flights between 9-11am this morning.
Flightradar24 suggest TK is operating at 60-70% capacity.
Flights departing, landing taking the long way around, making strange turns even though there is no apparent heavy traffic in the air.

Do not forget that the new airport is also new to the air traffic controllers.
Those strange turns are the new arrivals into IST. If you look at the STARs (Standart Instrument Arrival Routes) you will notice, that they have those turns included. Those turns wil allow directs to shorten remaining distance to the runway. This is called point merge.

I guess that ATC is not using those directs excessively during the first few days, as all those procedures are newly designed.

By the way: I notice also TK doing those turns.

I also noticed overlfying to the north and approatch from different side. Was quite interesting.

peterinlisbon wrote:

Berlin's new airport is really safe. They don't allow any dangerous things such as planes or passengers there.

Mike drop!

ASA wrote:

The Turks are truly wizards of construction. How they built such an airport from scratch in a mere few years is beyond me! The Germans need to learn (funny that given the number of Turks in Germany, they should have already!

The new airport looks just grand and awesome ... both airside and landside and inside the Terminal. Can't wait to fly through!

While I agree with your observations, I'd throw in following consideration:
BER terminal issues centre around the fire-safety building codes (after DUS fire), as in, the BER terminal complex is not meeting the codes.

How comfortable are you that new Istanbul Airport would meet those strict fire-safety building codes that kept BER from opening to the public?

Not saying IST is bad at that respect (I don't know), but it is too easy to put one down (BER) not realizing the other one (IST) may not have been build, nor judged against similar requirements.

ASA wrote:

The Turks are truly wizards of construction. How they built such an airport from scratch in a mere few years is beyond me! The Germans need to learn (funny that given the number of Turks in Germany, they should have already!

The new airport looks just grand and awesome ... both airside and landside and inside the Terminal. Can't wait to fly through!

1. BER ought to open by 2021 or never at all. It is an absolute embarrassment that it is still not able to keep its LED monitors running. Moreover, I am surprised that lay Germans call that engineering disaster BER in everyday use, rather than Flughafen-Berlin-Brandenburg or something (thanks are due to German hyper-hyphenation).

2. Off-topic: I was astonished to find that Ay Yildiz is actually a German mobile network operator! You are spot-on about the Turkish population in Germany.

Meanwhile Arrivals / Departure tables on website started to reflect non-TK Airlines.

Here some photos of the new TK Business Lounge https://loyaltylobby.com/2019/04/08/lou ... l-airport/

TK to operate 294 departures and 271 arrivals; a total of 565 flights today, April 9th, serving over 103,000 pax. IIRC, this is about half of what TK used to fly in a day at Ataturk.

michi wrote:

TK787 wrote:

Looking at the IGA departures only 6 TK flights between 9-11am this morning.
Flightradar24 suggest TK is operating at 60-70% capacity.
Flights departing, landing taking the long way around, making strange turns even though there is no apparent heavy traffic in the air.

Do not forget that the new airport is also new to the air traffic controllers.
Those strange turns are the new arrivals into IST. If you look at the STARs (Standart Instrument Arrival Routes) you will notice, that they have those turns included. Those turns wil allow directs to shorten remaining distance to the runway. This is called point merge.
I guess that ATC is not using those directs excessively during the first few days, as all those procedures are newly designed.
By the way: I notice also TK doing those turns.

I suppose there was an intensive simulator training of ATC of all possible setups for arrivals and departures incl change of RWY's in use as well as emergency situations /closure of RWY due to the accident, holding procedures due to weather etc./. This in conjunction with traffic patterns to SAW, although I don't know how dependent both airports ARR and DEP procedures are.
So it shouldn't be completely new for ATC, even I agree that real life is a bit different.

Are there still passenger planes sitting at Atatürk, waiting to be ferried? When you look on FR24 on the ground at ISL it still shows a list of planes...

HeyTK wrote:

Are there still passenger planes sitting at Atatürk, waiting to be ferried? When you look on FR24 on the ground at ISL it still shows a list of planes...

Cargo planes are still there since the current cargo terminal isn’t ready for business and any plane that’s getting maintenance done and can’t fly is still there.

Is going double-daily to BOS feasible? I think the single flight is doing really well.

EK77WNH wrote:

Is going double-daily to BOS feasible? I think the single flight is doing really well.

What's the load factor?

aldrigsomandre wrote:

EK77WNH wrote:

Is going double-daily to BOS feasible? I think the single flight is doing really well.

What's the load factor?

Last September, 89%.

conaly wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I don't oppose the new airport (I am glad that I never have to set a foot to Atatürk airport again, I hated that airport), but please refrain from such unreflected comments, if you have no idea what you are talking about.

No offense taken. I know the Germans are very very thorough about these things. 15 years of planning, 5 years of construction, and then 9 years of final checks ... on top of that, financial mismanagement, bankruptcies, permit irregularities, bribery, and then faulty constructions that are still getting fixed.

It was a pun ... but looks like I hit some raw nerves ... sorry about that. But if you want to blame Turks for cutting corners on IST, you should point out the real reasons why BER is delayed as well (assuming you know well). Hope the airport opens in 2020 when the fixes are in and the safety measures are on!

PW100 wrote:

ASA wrote:

The Turks are truly wizards of construction. How they built such an airport from scratch in a mere few years is beyond me! The Germans need to learn (funny that given the number of Turks in Germany, they should have already!

The new airport looks just grand and awesome ... both airside and landside and inside the Terminal. Can't wait to fly through!

While I agree with your observations, I'd throw in following consideration:
BER terminal issues centre around the fire-safety building codes (after DUS fire), as in, the BER terminal complex is not meeting the codes.

How comfortable are you that new Istanbul Airport would meet those strict fire-safety building codes that kept BER from opening to the public?
.

I would be 200% comfortable.
Why would someone spend 12 billion dollars to build one of the largest global air hubs in the world and not follow the most stringent safety regulations? Put your xenophobia aside and think about that for a second.

Orlik wrote:

I suppose there was an intensive simulator training of ATC of all possible setups for arrivals and departures incl change of RWY's in use as well as emergency situations /closure of RWY due to the accident, holding procedures due to weather etc./. This in conjunction with traffic patterns to SAW, although I don't know how dependent both airports ARR and DEP procedures are.
So it shouldn't be completely new for ATC, even I agree that real life is a bit different.

I would suppose the same. They have had training for sure. I should have been more precise.

As the new airport is much further away from SAW as the old airport, the effect on each other might be reduced. It looks like the new IST airport is basically using the airspace north of the SAW runway centerline and SAW uses the airspace south of it.

If nothing changes, I will fly to the new IST airport next week. As I am sitting most forward possible in the plane, I might get some impression of how it is handled by ATC.

airbazar wrote:

PW100 wrote:

ASA wrote:

The Turks are truly wizards of construction. How they built such an airport from scratch in a mere few years is beyond me! The Germans need to learn (funny that given the number of Turks in Germany, they should have already!

The new airport looks just grand and awesome ... both airside and landside and inside the Terminal. Can't wait to fly through!

While I agree with your observations, I'd throw in following consideration:
BER terminal issues centre around the fire-safety building codes (after DUS fire), as in, the BER terminal complex is not meeting the codes.

How comfortable are you that new Istanbul Airport would meet those strict fire-safety building codes that kept BER from opening to the public?
.

I would be 200% comfortable.
Why would someone spend 12 billion dollars to build one of the largest global air hubs in the world and not follow the most stringent safety regulations? Put your xenophobia aside and think about that for a second.

The ceiling is so high that I doubt it could catch fire. You could drive a fire truck around inside and there is so much empty space that I doubt a fire would be much of a problem. Perhaps Germans are extra sensitive to this issue after what happened at Dusseldorf, but I think that the old type of design with low ceilings is much more problematic because in that environment it's hard to escape and the smoke is likely to accumulate and make it hard to see the way out.

We really need somebody to put up a receiver/antenna at the airport. Picking up the signal only at a certain height is semi-entertaining.

Btw. it shares the airspace not only with SAW, but also with ISL. there are still a considerable amount of cargo and private jet flights.
For example just a minute ago, TK2335 ADB-IST was turning left to finals at 3000ft when just a few miles away at 2000ft TK6349 TLV-ISL freighter aligned with runway 05 at ISL.

Safe? Yes! Pretty close? Probably...

I saw up thread someone said the reason for the lack of FR24 coverage at IST was due to no people living near the airport. How does it work over oceans?

VanBosch wrote:

I saw up thread someone said the reason for the lack of FR24 coverage at IST was due to no people living near the airport. How does it work over oceans?

If they go over a wide area with no coverage the flights will disappear from coverage or FR24 will guess where the flight is based on its projected path

It looks like some foreign airlines are actually using the new airport for their freighter ops. Flightradar24 still mixes up some flights destinations between IST and ISL but you can see from the flight paths that these flights operated from the new IST:
Lufthansa Cargo: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 1#201a99d2
EgyptAir Cargo: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 2#201a2bef
Qatar Cargo: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 7#201a04fd

Ethiopian Cargo and Hong Kong Air Cargo stayed at ISL, as well as TK Cargo and MNG Airlines (IIRC MNG also operates flights for DHL, UPS and AF). I wonder why it is divided up like that, did these airlines use different facilities before the move?