Zesta
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:10 am

Why aren't they using parrarel landing all the time? Planes doing circles over Kırklareli and Black Sea.
 
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TK787
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:29 am

Friday, April 12th, IGA will achieve 1151 flights.
 
stylo777
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:00 am

I took a domestic flight back in Nov. which departed towards the South.
Without any other aircraft at the airport at all, the taxi time was 35 min.
 
Solidus
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:30 pm

TK787 wrote:
Friday, April 12th, IGA will achieve 1151 flights.


Wow. Impressive! Airport gained same rate as old Airport just for one week considering in mind that there are still airlines / destination not yet served in new airport after transition.
 
CYYZLOWW
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:08 pm

VanBosch wrote:
Seems to be a radar gap on my FR24 app, only shows flights path from the sea, same on flights going in. The track stops at the perimeter.


Good news you can now spot all the ground traffic at the new airport
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:21 pm

Per DHMI (state airport authority) during the first 4 days since the transfer, the airport handled.

Arriving Pax: 329.106
Departing Pax: 308.668,
Arriving aircraft: 2.018,
Departing aircraft 2.043
Ontime performance - 95.7%

Image
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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UPlog
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:56 pm

Seems like things have gone extremely smooth! Congrats Turkey and TK for the achievement.
 
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TK787
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:28 am

Pretty much TK capacity is back to normal, even with the missing 737MAXs. 185 active TK planes over the flight24 world map now.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:59 am

LAXintl wrote:
Image

I am currently in IST. Amazing airport. Taxiing after landing took more than 25 minutes.

The TK-Lounge is so huge that I had problems finding the entrance (it’s on the backside from what I would have called the front of the lounge).

Congratulations!

PS.: I missed my connection since I arrived at IST two hours after scheduled arrival time but within two minutes I had a new boarding card for the next flight. So that was okay and the reason for the delay was not TK but traffic congestion in Ho Chi Minh City...
 
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Finn350
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:09 am

Speedalive wrote:
dozerman wrote:
Finn350 wrote:
In the original plan, there were two parallel runways and 8 parallel taxiways, or something to that effect in the first phase. It seems that they have built two pairs of parallel runways, those in each pair very near each other, and less taxiways in the current implementation. What is the logic behind this change?


I think they are using two taxiways as additional/emergency runways. 17L/35R and 16R/34L are the actual runways, they are 60m wide, the other two are 45m wide. See this post: https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtop ... #p20075849

Doesn't appear to be the case, although they are not to be used for landing unless permitted by ATC. Check out the runway operations section.
Image

Compared to Gatwick..
Image


Good comparison. I suppose they will change operations similar to Gatwick once more runways have been constructed.
 
cityshuttle
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:56 am

Have been there yesterday, coming from PVG and connecting to TXL.

It is huge. But most surprisingly is that there are 50% of the shops still not open yet. The main lounge entrances are closed and you are forced to use the side entrances which are kind of hidden. And the lounges are huge too ... but I think not enough toilets. Long queues at both men and women sides.
 
Turkish350XWB
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:58 am

Read a review on the new airport and the guy said it is too big. Maybe a smaller main terminal and more satellites would have been better and easier to grow the airport. From my perspective the new IST is very similar to BKK regarding its structure, and size is comparable.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:25 pm

I am not an expert but today, when I landed at IST and left IST several hours later, it took between 25 minutes and when departing even more than half an hour for taxiing from the gate to the runway.

It was not only the time that it took, it was also strange how we taxiied, stoping at almost every intersection, waiting, starting taxiing again. At one time we even made a hard stop when thereb seemed to be a misunderstanding with another TK-aircraft about who was allowed to go first.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:07 pm

cityshuttle wrote:
Have been there yesterday, coming from PVG and connecting to TXL.

It is huge. But most surprisingly is that there are 50% of the shops still not open yet. The main lounge entrances are closed and you are forced to use the side entrances which are kind of hidden. And the lounges are huge too ... but I think not enough toilets. Long queues at both men and women sides.

Getting toilets right is key. Are there showers?

I'll take big. I need my steps. ;)
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TK787
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:51 pm

Showers, yes... I have seen the videos, can't find the link. Also private suites and areas with lounges to rest.
Update: Found the link for some photos here: https://loyaltylobby.com/2019/04/08/lou ... l-airport/
Last edited by TK787 on Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Solidus
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:53 pm

TK787 wrote:
Friday, April 12th, IGA will achieve 1151 flights.


Curious to see stats for 13-th of April :)
 
aldrigsomandre
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:57 am

Are there any other airlines opening airport lounges at the new IST?
I just saw TK and the IGA Lounge.
 
dozerman
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:04 am

aldrigsomandre wrote:
Are there any other airlines opening airport lounges at the new IST?
I just saw TK and the IGA Lounge.


There is a Skyteam lounge according to this map. I don't know if it's operational yet.
 
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SQ789
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:11 am

dozerman wrote:
aldrigsomandre wrote:
Are there any other airlines opening airport lounges at the new IST?
I just saw TK and the IGA Lounge.


There is a Skyteam lounge according to this map. I don't know if it's operational yet.

There seems to be other than TK, IGA and ST lounge as well. All the other lounge than TK and IGA are still not operation yet.
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
Solidus
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:07 am

Are there lounges you can simply pay for access being Economy Class passenger without FQTV grade?
 
aldrigsomandre
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:50 pm

I wonder if any of the ME3 will open a lounge at the new IST. My money is on Emirates.
 
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TK787
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:41 am

Reporting from the TK lounge;
Drove from Kadikoy, it took me 40 minutes at 5:30am. Signage is very dark once you get to the airport, hard to see. Needs to be reflective just like road signs. Ample space at parking.
The terminal size seems just fine, found everything just fine. Online checkin, mobile boarding pass, security and passport control a breeze.
Lounge seems not well laid out, I don’t like the lighting; terrible fluorescent. I’m sure much better during daylight hours.
Floorboards are moving, so when you are sitting and someone walks by, you feel the floor move.
And no strudel. !!!!! They said they are out of the original pans!!! I don’t get it.
 
Solidus
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:18 pm

Any stats data for last 2 3 days available?
 
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mafaky
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:45 pm

aldrigsomandre wrote:
I wonder if any of the ME3 will open a lounge at the new IST. My money is on Emirates.


I very much doubt! D you think that EK's rather small lounge at Ataturk AP, has really paid off???

But for more: I don't think EK, ME3 and any other non *A airline will stay at this present day terminal once the second terminal will be built, finished and declared operational. TK and inevitably the *A partners will stay at the present T-1, and all others (inc. other Turkish airlines) will be shifted to T-2. EK is not at its best financial status, so why should they invest more money to a lounge where they may not stay for long? Once in T-2, they may have their own proprietary lounge. In the meanwhile, say 4-5-6 years from now (depending on the availability of T-2) they will use the IGA Lounge at T-1. I guess, there will be no harm!... :roll:
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
Solidus
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:57 pm

I see very few flights departs on-time in FR24 for last 2 days. Is there logical explanation for this? Teething issues?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:01 pm

Solidus, any statistics? There will be teething issues, but is it more (e.g., layout not as efficient as planned?)

Lightsaber
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Solidus
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:49 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Solidus, any statistics? There will be teething issues, but is it more (e.g., layout not as efficient as planned?)

Lightsaber


Yes, you can find here Departures List

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airp ... departures

You can notice bars in Green / Yellow / Red depending if flight was dispatched on-time, minor delay, medium delay respectively
 
THY748i
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:44 pm

Solidus wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Solidus, any statistics? There will be teething issues, but is it more (e.g., layout not as efficient as planned?)

Lightsaber


Yes, you can find here Departures List

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airp ... departures

You can notice bars in Green / Yellow / Red depending if flight was dispatched on-time, minor delay, medium delay respectively


It‘s worth noting though that most of TK’s flights have arrived on time which is key to ensure connections.
 
Solidus
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:56 pm

THY748i wrote:
Solidus wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Solidus, any statistics? There will be teething issues, but is it more (e.g., layout not as efficient as planned?)

Lightsaber


Yes, you can find here Departures List

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airp ... departures

You can notice bars in Green / Yellow / Red depending if flight was dispatched on-time, minor delay, medium delay respectively


It‘s worth noting though that most of TK’s flights have arrived on time which is key to ensure connections.


Exactly. I noticed this as well. I could not understand what is delaying departures. As I remember previous Airport was Ground Handled by TAV. This airport? Someone new? Maybe not enough experience?
 
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TK787
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:35 am

So, yesterday I did a quick IST-Spain roundtrip, my first time from the new airport. Let me continue with more info:
-At 6am yesterday, IST was quiet empty. INT. Lounge was full as usual. From what I understand, there is no difference between the two INT lounges, I could have used both. I used the East Lounge (don't know how TK names it) I don't like it the new layout like I said, it is one long section. I really liked the old one with its circular form and two storeys. There is nothing impressive about it, besides a giant LED screen at the entrance, no main attraction to tie it all. I am not even sure, it is bigger. It sure doesn't feel bigger compared to the old one. I liked the TEA room and the LIBRARY, there are actually books to read, you can see the tarmac and the D pier, there are objects that are Turkish in design and feel.
-Food options at breakfast were similar. It is a good start.
-Mens bathroom at this lounge had 7 toilets, 6 urinals and 10 sinks. IIRC, the capacity of this lounge is around 800 pax???
-There is a smoking terrace near D pier, but all the smell comes in to the terminal, disgusting.
-Light color floor tiles already look dirty/some broken. I know it is a giant area, but there should be more carpeting.

Here is the fun part;
-Boarding complete was on time; exactly five minutes later was pushback, exactly 5 minutes later was start of taxi.
From Gate C2 (pretty center of the terminal) to Runway 34L took 23 minutes, with regular taxi speed WITH NO stops, NO traffic in front of us, we were Number one for take off. This is not going to get better, it is not that pilots are not used to the taxiing routes. This is IT. 23 Minutes to runway from a centrally located gate with no traffic at all and we are not talking about a busy day. It is what it is, you want a mega airport, you get mega taxi times.
-Landing around 11:00pm. After touch down, I did not see another plane for about 10 minutes of taxiing back to the gate. It is truly a giant airport. From 34L to Gate F13 it took us exactly 21 minutes full Taxi speed with NO stops, NO other traffic.
I was one of the first ones out and no baggage to claim, a small carry on, I walked as fast as I can and it took me 30 minutes to go all the way to the EXIT, outdoors. I even used TK Fast Track passport control ( I was the only one there).
Let me tell you, I have seen tons of BIG airports. It was ridiculous to walk and walk and walk with no one in sight. To walk the length of F Pier from one end to another, seeing no one except couple of cleaners, and using not less than 8 long travelators was something :) I was thinking about the elderly or families with kids, and transfer pax.
TK showed videos before landing on how to transfer. In Turkish version it said if your transfer is less than 75 min. you can use "Short transfer time" desks at each Pier, if longer transfer times; go to the main Transfer Point a the center of the Terminal. English version said 60 minutes. I still think this is wishful thinking with slow moving pax.

It took me another 10 minutes to find the way to Parking Lots, find the machines to pay for Parking (yesterday was the first time parking was not free), find my car (Self Parking cost was $8 for 16 hours) . And it took me another 1:10 hrs to get home near Erenkoy. IST is going to lose a lot of pax that live on the Asian side, too far, too expensive. SAW with a 2 runway/another terminal future and Pegasus might be the winners here for at least Domestic and Medium Haul travel.

IST needs more signs, everywhere. Even though I travel a lot, adapt to new airports, feel which way I am heading... it was not easy. I did all this, not taking my time, not taking pictures....walked as fast as a NY'er walks in the city :)

At the end, congratulations to IST and TK to make a very smooth transition. There is ample space for TK to grow. I am glad all Istanbul residents can use TK at this airport to go anywhere nonstop in the world in due time. And there is so much space inside to make improvements over the years. Look what they did with old IST over the years :)
 
THY748i
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:22 am

Thank you TK787 for your insights!

On another note, finally ground traffic is available on FR24! :D
 
Solidus
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:42 am

THY748i wrote:
Thank you TK787 for your insights!

On another note, finally ground traffic is available on FR24! :D


Great! Thanks for info.

Thank you, TK787 for great review and sharing of experience.
 
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TK787
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:25 pm

At the TK lounge again. This time on the West Lounge. I guess, eventually this will be for only FF Card Holders and the East Lounge will be for paid J pax. But, identical as far as I can tell.
It took me 45 minutes with Uber from Atasehir area, cost $35.
Star Gold uses Gate#5 ( Red Parking Lot) to enter. 2 Xray machines, no lines.
After that there is a seperate check in for Star Gold customers. First you have to go to the end of the area to answer the security questions then you have a sit down, YES SIT DOWN check in with your personal TK staff. Omer was so nice, he gave his lapel pin. It is TK logo one side, Turkish flag on the other side. So super nice of him.
Then to a seperate Fast Track, passport control and another Xray and you are in.
It already looks busy, full of people. Not any longer those empty pictures of halls. Enough open stores, food joints, pax roaming, light coming in from the ceiling is nice at Daylight.
From the TEA room, I can see the tarmac activity of D and B Piers, but the runways are so distant, It is a shame can't hear any planes landing/take off.
Still a TK land here, very few other airlines from what I can see.
And the best thing, the Lounge is not Hot :) It is very comfortable.

That's all for now folks :)
Last edited by TK787 on Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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SQ789
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:29 pm

aldrigsomandre wrote:
I wonder if any of the ME3 will open a lounge at the new IST. My money is on Emirates.

EK should have their lounge at the new airport as well if I'm not wrong. Remember before the closure of the old airport, EK also operates their own lounge at the old airport before it closed.
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:47 pm

TK787 wrote:
At the TK lounge again. This time on the West Lounge. I guess, eventually this will be for only FF Card Holders and the East Lounge will be for paid J pax. But, identical as far as I can tell.

I heard some where on TV that these 2 lounges are identical other than "Istanbul Modern Museum" branch available on (if I'm not mistaken) paid J pax lounge. The other lounge has a cinema instead.
The future is in the skies.
 
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TK787
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:33 pm

TK105 wrote:
TK787 wrote:
At the TK lounge again. This time on the West Lounge. I guess, eventually this will be for only FF Card Holders and the East Lounge will be for paid J pax. But, identical as far as I can tell.

I heard some where on TV that these 2 lounges are identical other than "Istanbul Modern Museum" branch available on (if I'm not mistaken) paid J pax lounge. The other lounge has a cinema instead.

Also, only one has a golf simulator. They might change it up more with time.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:09 pm

Keep in mind TK will still open 2 additional lounges including one for top level Elite Plus customers.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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TK787
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IRe: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:18 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Keep in mind TK will still open 2 additional lounges including one for top level Elite Plus customers.

Did not know, great!!! So much space for add-ons, especially across from TK lounges, South side of the Terminal upper balcony area.
 
michi
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:41 pm

Finn350 wrote:
Good comparison. I suppose they will change operations similar to Gatwick once more runways have been constructed.


After preparing my flight towards IST tomorrow, I have discovered some interesting procedures about the runway usage.


First, there are two pairs of parallel runways west of the terminal complex (a fifth rwy is already beeing constructed east of the terminal).

West pair:
16R/34L and 16L/34R

East pair:
17L/35R and 17R/35L

Each pair consists of a main landing runway (the bold rwy's above), each with an ILS CAT IIIb approach and a second runway with no instrument approach at all. Simultaneous ops is allowed for the instrument approaches towards the main landing runway's 16R/34L and 17L/35R.
The usage for each pair's second runway is different however.


16L/34R looks like an additional/secondary/emergency runway for 16R/34L. It may be used for takeoff, but that's it. As the 16/34 runway's are close, they might use in like LAX. Landing traffic on the outer runway with departing traffic on the inner runway. The centerline separation is the same as at LAX's northern runway system.
Unfortunately a runway crossing of an active runway (if 16L/34R is used for takeoffs) is required for each arriving aircraft. This induces more risk (as runway incursions might happen) than at the other runway pair.


17R/35L however is used for takeoffs all the time as the main departure runway for the 17/35 pair. There are no takeoffs planned for 17L/35R!

Departing traffic for all existing runway's will be routed via the taxiway's south of the threshold's 35L/35R. That explains the long taxi times. There is no runway crossing required for the 17L/35R (landing traffic vacating east) and 17R/35L (line up traffic from the west) pair. Which is a huge improvement of safety compared to the other pair.

I do not understand, why they did not build a taxiway in between 16R/34L and 16L/34R runways. It is a greenfield airport, where such safety improvements could have been designed very easily. Even another taxiway extending south acting as an end-around taxiway should have been possible I presume.
Therefore, with all the other runways coming in the future, I conclude that the 16L/34R is more an emergency runway than a departure runway.


One more thing is bothering me. They have established taxi speed limitations for different taxiways. Unfortunately there is no easy to read map with all the limitations marked, just a plain list of 10kts/20kts/30kts max. taxiways. So I printed out the ground charts and marked the speed limitations by myself. Not very user friendly.


Regarding the arrivals I have noticed (thanks flightradar) that arriving traffic is routed more direct than in the early days of operation.


So I am looking forward for my flights tomorrow. Feedback might take a day or two, as I have some more work to do.

Cheers,
Michi
 
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TK787
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:12 pm

Yesterday, I was on TK11 IST-JFK. Here is more on that:
I've already commented above, about the experience all the way to the West TK Lounge.
After spending some quality time with Turkish baklava table at the lounge I started making my way toward Gate F3.
It is going to be a learning curve to figure out timing between points at IST. From lounge to F3 is about 500m.
Also you have to go down an escalator. There are Buggy points, I asked and they charge 6 euros for a single trip, not sure per person or for the whole vehicle which looks like can seat 5 people.
At F3, there are 2 separate entrances to the glass enclosed gate area. One for Y pax, one for Star Gold/C pax. After the usual security screening boarding commences from two different jet bridges. TC-LNC "Refahiye", 3.2 years old A333 is taking us over the pond today. Y is full, 9 empty seats at C. My seat is usually 4D on the A333, due to direct aisle access, but since 5A is available and no one at 5B, I move to the window seat for a scenic departure.
We were supposed to leave at 6:35pm. That was actually when I heard "boarding complete:"
Started pushback at 6:38 and taxi started at 6:42. All good so far.
It was a beautiful sunny day at IST and we taxied along what is going to become the 3rd runway. There are tons of excavation vehicles, trucks and such but there was no work going on when we passed by.
After taxiing about 20 minutes, we came to a stop near the entrance of 34R. The captain (sounded Australian) said we will stay here for about 15 minutes. While we stopped; there were landings and take offs in front of us. And our plane actually revved up in increments, everytime slightly more for about 15minutes. Finally we took of at 7:30, almost a 50 minute taxiing. About the wait, a.netter "wing" told me, it could be for brakes. Here is a quote from an earlier thread:

"The issue of brake temperature is an important concern to pilots. Hot brakes can severely decrease braking performance in the event of a rejected takeoff. It is quite possible that even though the aircraft was on the ground for 2 hours, the brakes were not able to completely cool off. In addition, a long taxi time as you mentioned could easily heat up the brakes. When the aircraft is taxiing for takeoff, it is at its heaviest, and a long taxi can be tough on the brakes."

It is very strange to see IST at daylight, nothing familiar in sight, no housing units, no car traffic, no landmarks. Not even landing/taking off jets. It is a totally new experience looking out the window. I saw few brand new buildings; Turkish Technic, Do&Co, Celebi, UPS, besides others being built.
And right after take off, a totally new scenery looking out the left side....greenery, a small village, a lake/delta leading to the Black Sea. Beautiful :)
The flight was uneventful, until I was woken up with a big jolt over Iceland. Here is to my first moderate/severe turbulence in over 590 flights. It lasted about 90 seconds, it was a side to side and up and down movement, all my stuff flew off my tray, screams from the pax. We immediately turned right, slowed down and took a more Northernly route after that. It took the assistance of 3 FA's to my find my reading glasses :)
You can clearly see the detour over Iceland here:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/THY ... /LTFM/KJFK
JFK was a mess. I was number 4 out of the plane, just to be stopped by airport employees at the hallway outside the Jet bridge. We were told we had to cue up here since the arrivals hall is backed up. Never seen this in 21 years flying out of JFK. After waiting in line for 15 minutes and not moving, I heard the magic words: "Global Entry can come forward".
I applied for renewal of my Global Entry 6 weeks ago and still haven't been approved due to backlog caused by the Government shutdown earlier and it expired last week. I took my chances, went up to the kiosk and even though it said my card is due for renewal, it processed my entry and I was through. What a difference coming from a brand new airport with ample space, to an aged JFK :(
So, that is all folks. I am planning on going back to IST next week, see what other info I come back with.
Safe travels to all.
 
michi
Posts: 249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:18 pm

Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:38 pm

Here is my trip report flying to and from the new IST airport:

The arrival was fast. We where cleared for a STAR first, but shortly after beginning our descent we received a direct towards a base waypoint. So no weird turns. Also no delay or long final. We did an ILS 34L (34R was not used at all this day for departures as expected). Wind was from the southwest with a tailwind component of almost 10kts. This caused an unstable wind situation during the last 400ft, as the airport is somewhat below the surrounding terrain. The hills south and west of the runway caused some rotor like air movements. This might explain some of the go arounds that happened at the airport already.
When vacating the runway we saw a windsock which was indicating a strong headwind, as the sock was fully blown up. I have never seen such weird wind (-shear) scenario at any airport I have been so far (eg. HKG, NRT, JNB). Tailwind during approach and a full headwind after a third of the runway. I wonder how this scenario will look like with stronger winds.

After vacating, the long taxi towards the F gates began. During taxi I realised, that the airport is far from being flat. The terminal area is quite a few feet lower than the 34/16 runways. The end around taxiways south of the 35 thresholds are well below the surrounding terrain. The approach lights for those runways are mounted on high masts. After taxiing downhill it got uphill on the terminal side of the 35s. They really did some big terrain forming during construction of the airport.

Taxi in was almost 20 minutes. Approaching the gate I was surprised by a marshaller guiding us in. I have expected some kind of docking guidance system at a modern airport. But there was none for our parking position.

Taxi out was a joke. First we got a pushback clearance facing south in the yard (D-E-F), as they seem to have one way taxiways even in the yard. This was really nonsense. There was no inbound traffic for the yard, only outbound. Therefore we had to wait for the other outbound aircraft being ready to taxi. That was for about 5min, as they started pushback, when we where ready to taxi.
We asked for the center taxiway for the taxi out in order to overtake the other aircraft, but this was denied for some unknown reason. The answer from ground control was more like: "How can you even ask for overtaking!" I do wonder why they built a middle taxiway in the yard, if it is not supposed to be used for overtaking.
Unfortunately the aircraft in front of us was taxiing very slowly. Max. 5kts in turns and max. 10kts during the straight segments. Even on the downhill segment of the end around taxiway they where not faster! So it took us 30 minutes from pushback to takeoff runway 34L.

Aircraft with no brake fans will have issues with brake temperatures at the new airport. We had an OAT of around 18°C (and brake fans), so not that hot. I wonder what will happen to the wide bodies during summer. Waiting for cool brakes at the departure runway is a pain in the a.. ! This problem will occur at both departure runways 34L and 35L, as all departures have to use the end around taxiway including the downhill part. There was one 773 already waiting at rwy 34L.
On a side note: We had to use runway 34L for departure as we where flying towards the northwest. However, there was no traffic departing runway 35L. So we asked for 35L in order to safe some taxi time, but the request was denied. It looks like, that ATC at the airport is still doing everything "by the book". Want to fly towards the West, us 34L, no shortcuts allowed.


So my key points in short:

    - Wind situation at the runways is bad
    - Taxi durations are excessive
    - Brake temperature will cause issues as well
    - ATC (except approach) is operating by the book causing more delay than necessary (they might get more flexible with more experience though)


The terminal itself looks huge. Boarding took longer, as some passengers where not at the gate in time. So better be early at the airport to have some spare time getting to the gate in time.

Best regards,
Michi
 
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TK787
Topic Author
Posts: 4125
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:22 pm

Thanks for all the info "Michi". 3rd runway seems like it is going to be closer to the Domestic Pier and very short taxi time and almost at same elevation as the terminal. But that is not going to solve any of the other problems you've mentioned.
 
Solidus
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 7:15 pm

Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:19 pm

TK787 wrote:
Thanks for all the info "Michi". 3rd runway seems like it is going to be closer to the Domestic Pier and very short taxi time and almost at same elevation as the terminal. But that is not going to solve any of the other problems you've mentioned.


From Your point of view are the problems design fault or it is acceptable? I do not expect improvements of departure times more than minus 10 minutes to the current rates. We need to wait until all shifts of ground staff companies sharpen their experience, gain skills, learn mistakes and improve process at new airport. I assume now it is ongoing. 1.5 weeks of operation no enough time to judge.
 
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TK787
Topic Author
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Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:39 pm

Solidus wrote:


From Your point of view are the problems design fault or it is acceptable?[/quote]
Hello there, I am merely an aviation fan and do not have the knowledge to answer this. From my own experience, unless planes taxi at higher speeds, (which I doubt) taxiing times will be around 20 minutes. About the brakes; might be fixable with different brakes/fans or different solutions, don't know. Wind situation, I can't even speculate.
 
leader1
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:44 am

Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:33 pm

I'm assuming you're a pilot. This is absolutely excellent analysis. I was curious about the new airport's operational procedures, especially pertaining to ATC. When I saw the airport's diagram, I was shocked to see that the parallels didn't have any taxiways between them. Is this a temporary thing and they plan to add later, or is this what design all along? Considering that the airport is build over such a large area, it's difficult to see lack of space being an issue when constructing the runways, taxiways, etc.

michi wrote:
Here is my trip report flying to and from the new IST airport:

The arrival was fast. We where cleared for a STAR first, but shortly after beginning our descent we received a direct towards a base waypoint. So no weird turns. Also no delay or long final. We did an ILS 34L (34R was not used at all this day for departures as expected). Wind was from the southwest with a tailwind component of almost 10kts. This caused an unstable wind situation during the last 400ft, as the airport is somewhat below the surrounding terrain. The hills south and west of the runway caused some rotor like air movements. This might explain some of the go arounds that happened at the airport already.
When vacating the runway we saw a windsock which was indicating a strong headwind, as the sock was fully blown up. I have never seen such weird wind (-shear) scenario at any airport I have been so far (eg. HKG, NRT, JNB). Tailwind during approach and a full headwind after a third of the runway. I wonder how this scenario will look like with stronger winds.

After vacating, the long taxi towards the F gates began. During taxi I realised, that the airport is far from being flat. The terminal area is quite a few feet lower than the 34/16 runways. The end around taxiways south of the 35 thresholds are well below the surrounding terrain. The approach lights for those runways are mounted on high masts. After taxiing downhill it got uphill on the terminal side of the 35s. They really did some big terrain forming during construction of the airport.

Taxi in was almost 20 minutes. Approaching the gate I was surprised by a marshaller guiding us in. I have expected some kind of docking guidance system at a modern airport. But there was none for our parking position.

Taxi out was a joke. First we got a pushback clearance facing south in the yard (D-E-F), as they seem to have one way taxiways even in the yard. This was really nonsense. There was no inbound traffic for the yard, only outbound. Therefore we had to wait for the other outbound aircraft being ready to taxi. That was for about 5min, as they started pushback, when we where ready to taxi.
We asked for the center taxiway for the taxi out in order to overtake the other aircraft, but this was denied for some unknown reason. The answer from ground control was more like: "How can you even ask for overtaking!" I do wonder why they built a middle taxiway in the yard, if it is not supposed to be used for overtaking.
Unfortunately the aircraft in front of us was taxiing very slowly. Max. 5kts in turns and max. 10kts during the straight segments. Even on the downhill segment of the end around taxiway they where not faster! So it took us 30 minutes from pushback to takeoff runway 34L.

Aircraft with no brake fans will have issues with brake temperatures at the new airport. We had an OAT of around 18°C (and brake fans), so not that hot. I wonder what will happen to the wide bodies during summer. Waiting for cool brakes at the departure runway is a pain in the a.. ! This problem will occur at both departure runways 34L and 35L, as all departures have to use the end around taxiway including the downhill part. There was one 773 already waiting at rwy 34L.
On a side note: We had to use runway 34L for departure as we where flying towards the northwest. However, there was no traffic departing runway 35L. So we asked for 35L in order to safe some taxi time, but the request was denied. It looks like, that ATC at the airport is still doing everything "by the book". Want to fly towards the West, us 34L, no shortcuts allowed.


So my key points in short:

    - Wind situation at the runways is bad
    - Taxi durations are excessive
    - Brake temperature will cause issues as well
    - ATC (except approach) is operating by the book causing more delay than necessary (they might get more flexible with more experience though)


The terminal itself looks huge. Boarding took longer, as some passengers where not at the gate in time. So better be early at the airport to have some spare time getting to the gate in time.

Best regards,
Michi
Leader-1
 
User avatar
alaturka
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:14 am

Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:04 pm

I just arrived IST the other day and had to use the bathroom which I didn't remember it's location. There were only two of them and suprisingly it is "alaturka" type which is you have to squat down. I didn't expect to see these kind a bathroom nowadays. I didn't use the other bathroms around so my question is; this is exceptional or there are lots in the other bathrooms?
 
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mafaky
Posts: 650
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:04 am

Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:42 pm

alaturka wrote:
I just arrived IST the other day and had to use the bathroom which I didn't remember it's location. There were only two of them and suprisingly it is "alaturka" type which is you have to squat down. I didn't expect to see these kind a bathroom nowadays. I didn't use the other bathroms around so my question is; this is exceptional or there are lots in the other bathrooms?


I visited at least 8 different gents' rooms on the landside (at different occasions) and twice on the domestic terminal's pier (airside) but have never met one, though I mostly didn't use the cabins. I'll go for a touristic sightseing (on the landside) in the next few days and this time I'll be more inquisitive. However, I will not be extremely surprised to see a few of those, having known the rather big Arab origin passenger traffic at Istanbul. Consider yourself at an Arab state airport or even China... :roll:
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
User avatar
mafaky
Posts: 650
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:04 am

Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:26 pm

Loo Inspection !...

I guess you are right. Every Gent's room has at least a 3 or 4 cabin setup. (There are ones with multiple 4-packs, also). At least one of these 3or 4 cabins are indeed with Turkish (or Middle east and even Chinese/Japanese type classical "allaturca") toilets. Today checked almost 10 different lavatories on the landside (departures level as well as arrivals level).
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
MeCe
Posts: 263
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:19 am

Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:42 pm

TK787 wrote:
After taxiing about 20 minutes, we came to a stop near the entrance of 34R. The captain (sounded Australian) said we will stay here for about 15 minutes. While we stopped; there were landings and take offs in front of us. And our plane actually revved up in increments, everytime slightly more for about 15minutes. Finally we took of at 7:30, almost a 50 minute taxiing. About the wait, a.netter "wing" told me, it could be for brakes. Here is a quote from an earlier thread:

"The issue of brake temperature is an important concern to pilots. Hot brakes can severely decrease braking performance in the event of a rejected takeoff. It is quite possible that even though the aircraft was on the ground for 2 hours, the brakes were not able to completely cool off. In addition, a long taxi time as you mentioned could easily heat up the brakes. When the aircraft is taxiing for takeoff, it is at its heaviest, and a long taxi can be tough on the brakes."



Thanks for update.

Regarding of brakes; TC-LNC has brake fans and they can be switched on during taxi to prevent heat build up. 15 min cool down is little too much for fan equipped plane. Actually brake fans are more effective while brakes released, stop and wait increase cooling time. But I really worry about 777`s in summer.
 
User avatar
mafaky
Posts: 650
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:04 am

Re: Istanbul new airport - latest pictures and discussion thread

Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:19 am

Regarding of brakes; TC-LNC has brake fans and they can be switched on during taxi to prevent heat build up. 15 min cool down is little too much for fan equipped plane. Actually brake fans are more effective while brakes released, stop and wait increase cooling time. But I really worry about 777`s in summer.


1) Is there a reference list which TK frames (including the NBs and also the leased frames) that need brake cooling? (Have just heard that carbon brakes don't need cooling; if that's entirely true???) Or a list of the TK frames having brake cooling fans?
2) What is your concern about the 77W fleet (I guess you indicated the entire fleet inc. the 777F all-cargo ones...)? Don't these triple sevens have cooling fans at all (hard to believe that they don't or have these as optional...)?
3) In case of TK787's experience and taking into consideration that particular frame did have cooling fans, why should the pilot prefer to give than 15 min. cool-down break? Extra precaution?
4) In the case that having cooling fans for factory fresh frames is optional; is it easy/possible to have them incorporated later onwards?

Thanks.
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.

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