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ridgid727
Posts: 1078
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:14 pm

They would be wise to attempt to become an Alaska Airlines Commuter operator, and pick up those cities like LWS, IDA, PIH, FLG, PRC, and open up other small to mid sized cities such as EKO, PVU with a couple flights a day. Im sure the EAS contracts they have over in South Dakota (which apparently is switching from all flights to Denver to a Minneapolis Denver Mix) would prefer a carrier that offers a frequent flyer program, and interline capability.
 
AirFiero
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:33 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Likes of ExpressJet scheduled service boondoggle showed us that earning fare premium by connecting markets directly is hardly a sure thing.

With CP Air planning relative high-frequency service in many markets (for example, their sample schedule few years ago had 5x daily to Bay Area), they have many seats to fill and will certainly be competing for customer choice against options at SAN and even SNA. If anything CP's ultimate fare earnings might be lower than what others generate at a primary airport like SAN.

All this does not even consider the other side of the coin and reality the CP seat-mile cost will be ~40%'ish higher than mainline operators.

As just mentioned by another poster - this is not a recipe for long-term success. I am hardly sold on the idea that CLD is either special or very large niche market that will consistently produce enough customers willing to pay a premium versus flying out SAN.


JetSuiteX seems doing well. Would CP have a similar chance at success?
 
ScottB
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:55 pm

AirFiero wrote:
There is no other comparable service at CLD. Driving 35 or 60 miles in urban California IS a big deal. I’m wondering if there’s a market for that convenience. It won’t compete with WN on low fares, but it will be interesting to see if travelers think it’s worth the price CP will charge.


Even with southern California's well-known traffic issues, the drive from North County to SAN is only problematic at certain times of the day. The flights at CLD still must compete with vastly superior schedule available at both SAN and SNA. That's going to be a serious challenge to driving the yields they'll need to compete while using smaller, higher-cost equipment.
 
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SANFan
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:06 pm

I really do hope CP Air gets off the ground finally.

I think their success at CLD really will depend on how many business travelers will use them. The corporate flyers from the Golden Triangle area may head north (to Carlsbad) instead of south (to SAN) for their flights, to the limited regional destinations offered by CP Air, and that may make the difference for the carrier to make it or not.

Good luck to you, Ted!

bb
 
strfyr51
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:12 pm

F9Animal wrote:
This is great news!!! I had a funny feeling Vargas wasn't giving up on his dream. I also hope the nay sayers are proven wrong!!!

I hope he's planning it right. carlsbad is a good distance from anywhere. I have NO idea if there's even a place to DO maintenance there. And??
To get parts or service there?? That's gotta be WELL planned. I was once based ant Monterey Ca. and it was a planning chore to get parts there. It's not impossible though, There were airlines based at Santa Maria, and San Luis Osbisbo and they worked out .
 
kliff0rd
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:48 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
This is great news!!! I had a funny feeling Vargas wasn't giving up on his dream. I also hope the nay sayers are proven wrong!!!

I hope he's planning it right. carlsbad is a good distance from anywhere. I have NO idea if there's even a place to DO maintenance there. And??
To get parts or service there?? That's gotta be WELL planned. I was once based ant Monterey Ca. and it was a planning chore to get parts there. It's not impossible though, There were airlines based at Santa Maria, and San Luis Osbisbo and they worked out .


It's one of the busiest single-runway airports in the country, so the facilities are surprisingly good for an airport its size. There are numerous maintenance providers onsite, including those capable of handling jets.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:49 pm

AirFiero wrote:
JetSuiteX seems doing well. Would CP have a similar chance at success?


What makes you think they are doing well?

They are privately held and are more like a typical tech start-up, with hands out collecting capital from various investors globally.

From having seen loads you can count on a single hand when visiting their Burbank FBO, the quasi-scheduled flying is not doing that hot imo.

Anyhow, the business models between CP and JetSuiteX is different.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ridgid727
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:02 pm

ScottB wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
There is no other comparable service at CLD. Driving 35 or 60 miles in urban California IS a big deal. I’m wondering if there’s a market for that convenience. It won’t compete with WN on low fares, but it will be interesting to see if travelers think it’s worth the price CP will charge.


Even with southern California's well-known traffic issues, the drive from North County to SAN is only problematic at certain times of the day. The flights at CLD still must compete with vastly superior schedule available at both SAN and SNA. That's going to be a serious challenge to driving the yields they'll need to compete while using smaller, higher-cost equipment.


I was thinking the same thing. There is already a carrier operating CLD-LAS, called CalJet Elite. Not sure what their load factors are, but the fares they are quoting seem to be on the low side for Regional Jet ops.

I do hope they get going, but I think operating all these flights from CLD is a recipe to failure. then again.. ADI is doing EAS services in Denver, so perhaps they are not placing all their eggs in the CLD basket. They also offer charter services and have been out bidding on other EAS markets as well in the past.

Very few of these carriers that start services like this survive
 
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ual747den
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:05 pm

F9Animal wrote:
I also wanted to add a little bit to those who dont think CP will make it. Let's not forget about the man who is working hard to get this airline going. Ted Vallas is 96 years old, and has a ton of very successful businesses throughout his life. I read he used to own a large charter airline back in the days. He also runs a very successful FBO. Not to mention that he has hired some incredible talent to get this airline off the ground.

You know they have done thorough homework on it, and no doubt have a strong business plan. The fact remains that Vallas has not given up, and he is going to get this airline flying. I remember when JetBlue got flying. I didn't expect them to last a year. Even Frontier!

I also wont think twice about investing some money in CP. I would be thrilled to see them flourish and turn some heads. Exciting times are coming to Carlsbad, and I hope to take a ride on their first flight.


This guy has been trying to get this airline off of the ground and throwing money away for more than a decade. I personally think that he is mentally not all there anymore and is just burning through cash with no chance of a real airline ever coming of it. The business model is and has always been flawed. It is more about having an airline that he would personally want to use because of his own needs than what the market actually needs and could support. Now here he is trying to buy an already operating airline so that he can run that into the ground after blowing through all of his money. No one is going to invest in this, even the most elementary investor can see that this has no chance of actually turning a profit. It's just more of the same mess that has been going on for years and years and years! I think at one point this guy even had an EMB170 delivered and at that point he was "just months from starting service"!!!!

Sorry NEVER going to work, this guy is a nut job!
Frontier Airlines - Low Fares Done Right
 
AirFiero
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:45 am

LAXintl wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
JetSuiteX seems doing well. Would CP have a similar chance at success?


What makes you think they are doing well?

They are privately held and are more like a typical tech start-up, with hands out collecting capital from various investors globally.

From having seen loads you can count on a single hand when visiting their Burbank FBO, the quasi-scheduled flying is not doing that hot imo.

Anyhow, the business models between CP and JetSuiteX is different.


Wasn't there word this week the JetSuiteX was buying 100 more RJs for expansion? Businesses don't do that if they are losing their asses. Unless they are stupid or something.
 
ScottB
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:59 am

AirFiero wrote:
Wasn't there word this week the JetSuiteX was buying 100 more RJs for expansion? Businesses don't do that if they are losing their asses. Unless they are stupid or something.


Press releases are only worth the paper they're written on. I'll believe the JetSuite story when there are binding contracts to bring the aircraft on the property. Uber ordered 24,000 Volvo XC90s (basically roughly $1 billion worth) for its self-driving car program with deliveries starting next year -- and yet they're losing money hand-over-fist and it looks increasingly doubtful that they'll manage to have a safe self-driving vehicle any time soon. I don't even know how JetSuite would find enough pilots to staff that amount of flying with the difficulty the regionals are having in recruiting for jobs with wages that are probably better than what JetSuite can pay.
 
SANMAN66
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:45 am

In related news, Caljet just suspended all flights CLD-LAS, stranding pax. Apparently this
is the second time they suspended flights. I hope CPAir could restore enough faith that
Carlsbad fliers would want to fly them. All the delays, is not helping! I guess SAN and SNA
will continue to get most of the North County fliers.
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
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FA9295
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:14 am

ual747den wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
I also wanted to add a little bit to those who dont think CP will make it. Let's not forget about the man who is working hard to get this airline going. Ted Vallas is 96 years old, and has a ton of very successful businesses throughout his life. I read he used to own a large charter airline back in the days. He also runs a very successful FBO. Not to mention that he has hired some incredible talent to get this airline off the ground.

You know they have done thorough homework on it, and no doubt have a strong business plan. The fact remains that Vallas has not given up, and he is going to get this airline flying. I remember when JetBlue got flying. I didn't expect them to last a year. Even Frontier!

I also wont think twice about investing some money in CP. I would be thrilled to see them flourish and turn some heads. Exciting times are coming to Carlsbad, and I hope to take a ride on their first flight.


This guy has been trying to get this airline off of the ground and throwing money away for more than a decade. I personally think that he is mentally not all there anymore and is just burning through cash with no chance of a real airline ever coming of it. The business model is and has always been flawed. It is more about having an airline that he would personally want to use because of his own needs than what the market actually needs and could support. Now here he is trying to buy an already operating airline so that he can run that into the ground after blowing through all of his money. No one is going to invest in this, even the most elementary investor can see that this has no chance of actually turning a profit. It's just more of the same mess that has been going on for years and years and years! I think at one point this guy even had an EMB170 delivered and at that point he was "just months from starting service"!!!!

Sorry NEVER going to work, this guy is a nut job!

:checkmark: Agree with you 100%. This guy is just wasting his time, energy, and money. California Pacific Airlines is, and has always been a failed business model/operation.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 4975
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:55 am

FA9295 wrote:
ual747den wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
I also wanted to add a little bit to those who dont think CP will make it. Let's not forget about the man who is working hard to get this airline going. Ted Vallas is 96 years old, and has a ton of very successful businesses throughout his life. I read he used to own a large charter airline back in the days. He also runs a very successful FBO. Not to mention that he has hired some incredible talent to get this airline off the ground.

You know they have done thorough homework on it, and no doubt have a strong business plan. The fact remains that Vallas has not given up, and he is going to get this airline flying. I remember when JetBlue got flying. I didn't expect them to last a year. Even Frontier!

I also wont think twice about investing some money in CP. I would be thrilled to see them flourish and turn some heads. Exciting times are coming to Carlsbad, and I hope to take a ride on their first flight.


This guy has been trying to get this airline off of the ground and throwing money away for more than a decade. I personally think that he is mentally not all there anymore and is just burning through cash with no chance of a real airline ever coming of it. The business model is and has always been flawed. It is more about having an airline that he would personally want to use because of his own needs than what the market actually needs and could support. Now here he is trying to buy an already operating airline so that he can run that into the ground after blowing through all of his money. No one is going to invest in this, even the most elementary investor can see that this has no chance of actually turning a profit. It's just more of the same mess that has been going on for years and years and years! I think at one point this guy even had an EMB170 delivered and at that point he was "just months from starting service"!!!!

Sorry NEVER going to work, this guy is a nut job!

:checkmark: Agree with you 100%. This guy is just wasting his time, energy, and money. California Pacific Airlines is, and has always been a failed business model/operation.


Yeah...I'm sure you all are credible and know everything about running an airline. I know I don't "pretend" to know the airline industry. If you're right, I eat my words here.
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:13 am

SANMAN66 wrote:
In related news, Caljet just suspended all flights CLD-LAS, stranding pax. Apparently this is the second time they suspended flights. I hope CPAir could restore enough faith that Carlsbad fliers would want to fly them. All the delays, is not helping! I guess SAN and SNA will continue to get most of the North County fliers.


Apparently they are planning service to PHX, OAK, SJC, SMF, and SJD, so they are taking time to finalize that schedule. Those destinations look awfully similar to what CPAir was going to start, at least in their first iteration a few years ago.
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B77E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
AirFiero
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:10 am

ScottB wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
Wasn't there word this week the JetSuiteX was buying 100 more RJs for expansion? Businesses don't do that if they are losing their asses. Unless they are stupid or something.


Press releases are only worth the paper they're written on. I'll believe the JetSuite story when there are binding contracts to bring the aircraft on the property. Uber ordered 24,000 Volvo XC90s (basically roughly $1 billion worth) for its self-driving car program with deliveries starting next year -- and yet they're losing money hand-over-fist and it looks increasingly doubtful that they'll manage to have a safe self-driving vehicle any time soon. I don't even know how JetSuite would find enough pilots to staff that amount of flying with the difficulty the regionals are having in recruiting for jobs with wages that are probably better than what JetSuite can pay.


Would they even put out a press release like that if they were losing money? Doesn’t make sense.

I’m not sure Uber is a good comparison.

As for the pilot shortage, aren’t the regionals under the 1,500 hour minimum? Would JetSuiteX be?

Oh, and for the record, I’m HIGHLY skeptical about California Pacific given their poor track record. I’m more interested in the concept of the niche market.
 
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FA9295
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:17 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
ual747den wrote:

This guy has been trying to get this airline off of the ground and throwing money away for more than a decade. I personally think that he is mentally not all there anymore and is just burning through cash with no chance of a real airline ever coming of it. The business model is and has always been flawed. It is more about having an airline that he would personally want to use because of his own needs than what the market actually needs and could support. Now here he is trying to buy an already operating airline so that he can run that into the ground after blowing through all of his money. No one is going to invest in this, even the most elementary investor can see that this has no chance of actually turning a profit. It's just more of the same mess that has been going on for years and years and years! I think at one point this guy even had an EMB170 delivered and at that point he was "just months from starting service"!!!!

Sorry NEVER going to work, this guy is a nut job!

:checkmark: Agree with you 100%. This guy is just wasting his time, energy, and money. California Pacific Airlines is, and has always been a failed business model/operation.


Yeah...I'm sure you all are credible and know everything about running an airline. I know I don't "pretend" to know the airline industry. If you're right, I eat my words here.

History tends to repeat itself. From what it looks like, I don't think this'll be a success. But if I'm wrong, and I really do hope that I am, then kudos to Ted Vallas.
 
F9Animal
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:16 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
ual747den wrote:

This guy has been trying to get this airline off of the ground and throwing money away for more than a decade. I personally think that he is mentally not all there anymore and is just burning through cash with no chance of a real airline ever coming of it. The business model is and has always been flawed. It is more about having an airline that he would personally want to use because of his own needs than what the market actually needs and could support. Now here he is trying to buy an already operating airline so that he can run that into the ground after blowing through all of his money. No one is going to invest in this, even the most elementary investor can see that this has no chance of actually turning a profit. It's just more of the same mess that has been going on for years and years and years! I think at one point this guy even had an EMB170 delivered and at that point he was "just months from starting service"!!!!

Sorry NEVER going to work, this guy is a nut job!

:checkmark: Agree with you 100%. This guy is just wasting his time, energy, and money. California Pacific Airlines is, and has always been a failed business model/operation.


Yeah...I'm sure you all are credible and know everything about running an airline. I know I don't "pretend" to know the airline industry. If you're right, I eat my words here.


I never claimed I know everything about running an airline. I am just a fan of startups. Of course I want nothing more than to see them succeed. I always like to go for the underdog, so this is just my way of enjoying what comes out. Like I said, I wrote B6 off the day they started service. I ate my words. And, I am glad they are what they are today. We all should be hopeful for all of them to succeed.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
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ual747den
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:19 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
ual747den wrote:

This guy has been trying to get this airline off of the ground and throwing money away for more than a decade. I personally think that he is mentally not all there anymore and is just burning through cash with no chance of a real airline ever coming of it. The business model is and has always been flawed. It is more about having an airline that he would personally want to use because of his own needs than what the market actually needs and could support. Now here he is trying to buy an already operating airline so that he can run that into the ground after blowing through all of his money. No one is going to invest in this, even the most elementary investor can see that this has no chance of actually turning a profit. It's just more of the same mess that has been going on for years and years and years! I think at one point this guy even had an EMB170 delivered and at that point he was "just months from starting service"!!!!

Sorry NEVER going to work, this guy is a nut job!

:checkmark: Agree with you 100%. This guy is just wasting his time, energy, and money. California Pacific Airlines is, and has always been a failed business model/operation.


Yeah...I'm sure you all are credible and know everything about running an airline. I know I don't "pretend" to know the airline industry. If you're right, I eat my words here.


I have NEVER claimed to know everything about running an airline but I have worked in the industry for a long time. I'm not going to mention what and where I am now but my last job was in revenue management in a senior position with United for many years. I don't think that you need to be too educated in the matter to know that this idea is not going to work. If you are skeptical all you have to do is look at his track record. This is by no means a new venture, this guy has been at it for almost a decade! There is a reason that you don't already see flights in and out of CLD and that is because there is not enough demand to warrant those flights. Ted did not choose CLD because of the business case for it, he chose it because he lives nearby and that is where he and his wealthy friends want to fly from. That is no way to run a business, you have to be smart about these things and be logical rather than emotional. To start an airline you have to have deep pockets and a solid long-term business plane because you are going to lose money for years. This guy doesn't have either and as you can see no investor is going to dump their money into this kind of operation because it just doesn't make any financial sense. This is a case of a very wealthy man who is bored and because he has used this airport for years and all of the people around him have used this airport, he thinks that there is demand for such flights. He thinks that he knows better than the statistical data and I disagree. I would imagine that this guy has some sort of hard on for the airline industry or airplanes and has lived a lifestyle where he has been extremely successful and now he wants to play with his own airline and airplanes, but this just isn't going to happen. If it was going to happen at any point it would have been before the housing market collapsed and the credit markets got tight. If he couldn't do it then he is going to do it ever.
Frontier Airlines - Low Fares Done Right
 
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ual747den
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:23 am

F9Animal wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
:checkmark: Agree with you 100%. This guy is just wasting his time, energy, and money. California Pacific Airlines is, and has always been a failed business model/operation.


Yeah...I'm sure you all are credible and know everything about running an airline. I know I don't "pretend" to know the airline industry. If you're right, I eat my words here.


I never claimed I know everything about running an airline. I am just a fan of startups. Of course I want nothing more than to see them succeed. I always like to go for the underdog, so this is just my way of enjoying what comes out. Like I said, I wrote B6 off the day they started service. I ate my words. And, I am glad they are what they are today. We all should be hopeful for all of them to succeed.


I also like to see startups come along and shake things up. I also would like to see some make it and have a few more airlines to choose from. I would really like to see another major carrier here in the US, or at least a carrier who flies some international with widebodies. But that doesn't change the fact that this guy and his airline isn't the one. Back 10 years ago when he first started I looked at it and thought hmm that looks interesting, but after all this time and his many failed start dates it's just not going to work. I believe at one point he even had a new E175 delivered. This is just a failure and needs to die already.
Frontier Airlines - Low Fares Done Right
 
FATFlyer
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:38 pm

ual747den wrote:
Ted did not choose CLD because of the business case for it, he chose it because he lives nearby and that is where he and his wealthy friends want to fly from. That is no way to run a business, you have to be smart about these things and be logical rather than emotional. To start an airline you have to have deep pockets and a solid long-term business plane because you are going to lose money for years. This guy doesn't have either and as you can see no investor is going to dump their money into this kind of operation because it just doesn't make any financial sense. This is a case of a very wealthy man who is bored and because he has used this airport for years and all of the people around him have used this airport, he thinks that there is demand for such flights.


In other words, he is just like many people here on a.net (Why doesn't airline __ fly from airport __?", "Airline __ should start service between __ and __") except Ted has his own money to spend on the idea.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
OB1504
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Wed May 16, 2018 5:11 pm

They have an ERJ parked at MIA today. Judging by the blue on the belly, it looks like it might’ve been in Delta Connection colors before.
 
routeplanner
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Wed May 16, 2018 5:26 pm

It is my understanding that they have frantically been trying to work interline agreements with UA, DL and AA. Financial fitness, a large unencumbered reserve account, top notch accounting system in place, adequate staffing or proven contractors at out stations, impeccable ops records etc, are part of what is required, and will come under intense scrutiny before an interline agreement is formed. Im sure that UA DL and AA are very decisive in prosecuting this.
 
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SANFan
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Wed May 16, 2018 11:49 pm

routeplanner wrote:
It is my understanding that they have frantically been trying to work interline agreements with UA, DL and AA. Financial fitness, a large unencumbered reserve account, top notch accounting system in place, adequate staffing or proven contractors at out stations, impeccable ops records etc, are part of what is required, and will come under intense scrutiny before an interline agreement is formed. Im sure that UA DL and AA are very decisive in prosecuting this.

I don't know anything about running an airline or creating interline agreements but it seems kind of intuitive to me that perhaps a small carrier such as CP Air should be up and operating for a while before seeking interline agreements with cx like UA and DL. It wouldn't surprise me if the legacy cx wouldn't even listen to anyone from CP Air until they've got at least a few months of flying under their belt!

I know CP Air would like to carry pax everywhere in the country eventually but for now, get a plane or two in the air and start flying pax locally to the destinations served nonstop. There surely must be business travelers heading for the Bay Area, LAS, PHX, or wherever CP Air will fly. Get those flyers onboard now, and next week, and next month, and work on more complex things later.

My opinion.

bb
 
MO11
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Thu May 17, 2018 12:27 am

routeplanner wrote:
It is my understanding that they have frantically been trying to work interline agreements with UA, DL and AA. Financial fitness, a large unencumbered reserve account, top notch accounting system in place, adequate staffing or proven contractors at out stations, impeccable ops records etc, are part of what is required, and will come under intense scrutiny before an interline agreement is formed. Im sure that UA DL and AA are very decisive in prosecuting this.


There is a difference between having an interline agreement and a code-share agreement. There are several regional carriers that might not have all of the above qualifications that have interline agreements with one or more major airlines.
 
routeplanner
Posts: 83
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Thu May 17, 2018 12:36 am

MO11 wrote:
routeplanner wrote:
It is my understanding that they have frantically been trying to work interline agreements with UA, DL and AA. Financial fitness, a large unencumbered reserve account, top notch accounting system in place, adequate staffing or proven contractors at out stations, impeccable ops records etc, are part of what is required, and will come under intense scrutiny before an interline agreement is formed. Im sure that UA DL and AA are very decisive in prosecuting this.


There is a difference between having an interline agreement and a code-share agreement. There are several regional carriers that might not have all of the above qualifications that have interline agreements with one or more major airlines.



They are attempting to secure interline agreements for their EAS passengers at DEN for their Pierre and Watertown ops.. When ZK suspended operations recently, they were doing a "code share" with ZK as Great Lakes Jet Connect, which afforded them interline agreements for ticketing and single bag check with most major carriers. They now have no interline capability. They are not seeking code share.
 
MO11
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Thu May 17, 2018 2:52 am

routeplanner wrote:
MO11 wrote:
routeplanner wrote:
It is my understanding that they have frantically been trying to work interline agreements with UA, DL and AA. Financial fitness, a large unencumbered reserve account, top notch accounting system in place, adequate staffing or proven contractors at out stations, impeccable ops records etc, are part of what is required, and will come under intense scrutiny before an interline agreement is formed. Im sure that UA DL and AA are very decisive in prosecuting this.


There is a difference between having an interline agreement and a code-share agreement. There are several regional carriers that might not have all of the above qualifications that have interline agreements with one or more major airlines.



They are attempting to secure interline agreements for their EAS passengers at DEN for their Pierre and Watertown ops.. When ZK suspended operations recently, they were doing a "code share" with ZK as Great Lakes Jet Connect, which afforded them interline agreements for ticketing and single bag check with most major carriers. They now have no interline capability. They are not seeking code share.


Correct. I never said that 4A was looking for a code-share, I was just commenting on routeplanner's discussion of interline agreements.

Remember that 4A had the same problem trying to operate as Great Lakes Jet Express in the YNG-ORD market last year.
 
GRJGeorge
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Thu May 17, 2018 8:52 am

Is this the same CP Air that had an E170LR painted in colours in 2013 (N760CP)...seems this aircraft is now operating for Airlink (South Africa)
 
MO11
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Thu May 17, 2018 2:04 pm

The same. Although now, instead of trying to start an airline from scratch, it has bought an existing airline.
 
slider
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Thu May 17, 2018 3:49 pm

The troubling thing with how this Cal Pac thing has (hasn't, really) happened is that it's given other would-be startups a bigger hurdle.

What aircraft manufacturer wants to waste sales resources on an outfit that can't get their act together? Or other vendors? Airports? Et al...

Vallas has had a helluva successful career and life, I respect what he's done. But this pipedream vaporware airline is a ridiculous fantasy.
 
Dominion301
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Thu May 17, 2018 5:12 pm

slider wrote:
The troubling thing with how this Cal Pac thing has (hasn't, really) happened is that it's given other would-be startups a bigger hurdle.

What aircraft manufacturer wants to waste sales resources on an outfit that can't get their act together? Or other vendors? Airports? Et al...

Vallas has had a helluva successful career and life, I respect what he's done. But this pipedream vaporware airline is a ridiculous fantasy.


What makes it even more of a fantasy is the refusal to even consider the notion of using Q400s, which would have little to no issues with CLD's runway.
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Thu May 17, 2018 11:41 pm

Well this showed up at YYZ today... sorry about the potato quality I didn't have time to take a proper pic, thing came in over Dixie Rd as i was heading home and I did a quick run to the north ramp to get a pic with my phone... and unfortunately a 757 was blocking the view from the otherside of the ramp :frown:

N286SK came in as Dynamic 286 https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DYN ... /KMIA/CYYZ

Image
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
Aviano789
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Thu May 17, 2018 11:47 pm

LAXintl wrote:
96-year-old millionaire Ted Vallas is again trying to get his California Pacific Airlines dream off the ground.

This time CP Air has decided to purchase an operating certificate by acquiring Georgia based Aerodynamics, Inc which operates 5 ERJ145s and pair of EMB170s.

CP Air now says they plan to launch service from Carlsbad base to markets like Sacramento, Oakland, San Jose, Las Vegas, Phoenix, and Cabo San Lucas as soon as April 2018.


Okay, California Pacific Airlines ready again
https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/201 ... dy-again/#

=

Good luck I suppose. The per-seat economic viability of standalone small jets ops remains a challenge very few have overcome.

Frankly speaking, I don't see how they can match WN's $49-$71 Get away fare.
 
routeplanner
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Fri May 18, 2018 12:25 am

northstardc4m wrote:
Well this showed up at YYZ today... sorry about the potato quality I didn't have time to take a proper pic, thing came in over Dixie Rd as i was heading home and I did a quick run to the north ramp to get a pic with my phone... and unfortunately a 757 was blocking the view from the otherside of the ramp :frown:

N286SK came in as Dynamic 286 https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DYN ... /KMIA/CYYZ

Image


Dynamic, Aerodybamics, ADI,, CalPac, they are all the same now Seems it left YYZ for RYY,
 
F9Animal
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Fri May 18, 2018 3:12 am

The airline is gonna fly. It will be interesting to see it happen, and of course, I wish them the absolute best.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Fri May 18, 2018 3:22 pm

routeplanner wrote:
Dynamic, Aerodybamics, ADI,, CalPac, they are all the same now Seems it left YYZ for RYY,


Dynamic Airways is separate. It was recently acquired by Swift Air, which also acquired the Eastern brand, and has recently been rebranded as Eastern.

Aerodynamics/ADI was recently acquired by California Pacific.
 
MO11
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Fri May 18, 2018 3:34 pm

Dynamic was not acquired by Swift Air....
 
OB1504
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Fri May 18, 2018 6:19 pm

MO11 wrote:
Dynamic was not acquired by Swift Air....


Dynamic and Swift are now owned by the same company, though it doesn’t seem like they know what they want to do with Swift. Dynamic has one 767 in basic Swift colors and another one in the standard Dynamic livery with Eastern titles and the logo in Swift colors.
 
allegiantflyer
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Fri May 18, 2018 6:29 pm

I really wanted to see CP air start service, I am an advocate for new start ups I think it would be good for our community to have new players.

Now that Elite got to the punch before CP air with Caljet,I don't see the need for the CP air idea to keep trying. Especially since it is starting to sound like Caljet has basically stole the entire business plan for CP air. I can imagine how upset the CP air team is with that problem.

For those who haven't read the article: http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/bus ... story.html
 
MO11
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Fri May 18, 2018 7:42 pm

OB1504 wrote:
MO11 wrote:
Dynamic was not acquired by Swift Air....


Dynamic and Swift are now owned by the same company, though it doesn’t seem like they know what they want to do with Swift. Dynamic has one 767 in basic Swift colors and another one in the standard Dynamic livery with Eastern titles and the logo in Swift colors.


Well, again, not really. Eastern (Dynamic) is owned by Solitude Strategies LLC, which is 100% owned by Kenneth Woolley. Mr. Woolley also owns 38.75% of Swift Air, through his (100%) ownership in Nimbos Holdings LLC. Jerry Moyes (Swift Transportation) owns an equal shareholding in Swift.
 
ridgid727
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California Pacific says its ready to fly

Fri May 25, 2018 9:53 pm

California Pacific took delivery of an EMB145 painted in their colors, and says they will be ready to fly this summer.
https://www.10news.com/news/california- ... m-carlsbad
 
MKIAZ
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Re: California Pacific says its ready to fly

Fri May 25, 2018 10:25 pm

Is this the same operator as Cal Jet Elite?
 
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SANFan
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Re: California Pacific says its ready to fly

Fri May 25, 2018 10:28 pm

ridgid727 wrote:
California Pacific took delivery of an EMB145 painted in their colors, and says they will be ready to fly this summer.
https://www.10news.com/news/california- ... m-carlsbad

Unfortunately, we've gotten to this point before so I'm still waiting for the first revenue flight to depart from CLD before I high-5 anyone! "Before the end of summer" they say -- that's still a long 3-4 months away...

Fingers remain crossed for lift-off and success for Ted and the team!

bb
 
ridgid727
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Re: California Pacific says its ready to fly

Fri May 25, 2018 10:28 pm

SANFan, I agree, only difference is this time they are really an airline with an operating certificate, doing charters, and scheduled service from Denver to Pierre and Watertown as ADI. A few years ago when they had that E170 in their colors, it looked like they might be starting up then, but it fell through. Maybe this time it will go, as they are producing revenue now.
 
routeplanner
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Re: California Pacific says its ready to fly

Fri May 25, 2018 10:40 pm

I think they are off to a better start at this point than they were 5 years ago. They are actually an airline this time.
 
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janders
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Fri May 25, 2018 10:40 pm

California Pacific Airlines to launch service from Carlsbad
https://www.10news.com/news/california- ... m-carlsbad

Of course they still don't have county approval to use the airport and environmental review pending.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
MO11
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Re: California Pacific says its ready to fly

Sat May 26, 2018 12:02 am

MKIAZ wrote:
Is this the same operator as Cal Jet Elite?



No.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 4975
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Updated: California Pacififc has a start date! November 1st

Sat May 26, 2018 12:14 am

So the California Pacific website is now http://mycpair.com. It is no longer http://flycpair.com
Last edited by SQ22 on Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
MO11
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Re: California Pacific says its ready to fly

Sat May 26, 2018 2:07 am

ridgid727 wrote:
California Pacific took delivery of an EMB145 painted in their colors, and says they will be ready to fly this summer.
https://www.10news.com/news/california- ... m-carlsbad


What's interesting is that this was the only airplane painted with Skyvalue titles. I guess that name is being eliminated.
 
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itripreport
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Re: California Pacific Airlines trying again to fly

Tue May 29, 2018 3:13 am

Just also want to make it clear, I got an email from Elite Air saying they suspended services till around mid summer as "They get ready for multi aircraft fleet". Yet again I can't wait to see this airlines take off. And hopefully be onboard that flight.
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