BER News and Discussion Thread

max999 · Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:47 pm

JLGordon wrote:
Just as a side note: The new BER is farther away for our politicians than TXL. So they keep the Helicopters in TXL for our proud leaders, because these better thinking persons cannot afford the travel to BER in matter of time.
And these are the people that tell you to reduce and change your travels and best do everything by bicycle or walking. I would love to see Angie on a bike, going from Reichstag to BER. And best, together with obese Sigmar Gabriel on a tandem bike...

If I remember correctly, there was a controversy involving the Federal Ministry of the Environment (BMU) about a year or two ago. The ministry employees were collectively taking thousands of flights a year between the Bonn and Berlin headquarters. It was seen as hypocritical for the environment ministry to be using a high polluting form of transport when many of the employees could have been taking the train instead.

According to the http://www.ecopassenger.org/ website:

Train between Bonn and Berlin emits 20.2 kg of CO2
Flight between Bonn and Berlin emits 112.2 kg of CO2

LTU932 · Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:56 pm

max999 wrote:
JLGordon wrote:
Just as a side note: The new BER is farther away for our politicians than TXL. So they keep the Helicopters in TXL for our proud leaders, because these better thinking persons cannot afford the travel to BER in matter of time.
And these are the people that tell you to reduce and change your travels and best do everything by bicycle or walking. I would love to see Angie on a bike, going from Reichstag to BER. And best, together with obese Sigmar Gabriel on a tandem bike...

If I remember correctly, there was a controversy involving the Federal Ministry of the Environment (BMU) about a year or two ago. The ministry employees were collectively taking thousands of flights a year between the Bonn and Berlin headquarters. It was seen as hypocritical for the environment ministry to be using a high polluting form of transport when many of the employees could have been taking the train instead.

According to the http://www.ecopassenger.org/ website:

Train between Bonn and Berlin emits 20.2 kg of CO2
Flight between Bonn and Berlin emits 112.2 kg of CO2

I guess they preferred to use Luftwaffe Airways (aka Flugbereitschaft) because they didn't want to mingle with the plebs even when travelling in first class on a train or commercial airliner, or they were just too cheap and preferred that the tax payer pick up the tab (or both)?

BTW, it's time to get rid of the part of the Berlin-Bonn-Gesetz that requires some ministries to stay in Bonn, and others have a second seat in Bonn. Either you move everything back to Berlin, or have all ministries in Bonn, you can't have both anymore. If they truly cared about the environment, they'd move everything to Berlin to avoid this "commuting".

Noshow · Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:01 pm

BTW: The best way to go to BER's terminal will clearly be by train.Car or cab will be a pain from midtown. Traffic jams all the way.

LTU932 · Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:31 pm

Yeah, I wouldn't want to be stuck on the A100/A113 or A10 either. Under those circumstances, I'd also take the S-Bahn. BTW, is it me, or why didn't they build a highspeed rail connection to BER? Why only the S-Bahn?

DLHAM · Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:26 pm

[quote="LTU932"]BTW, is it me, or why didn't they build a highspeed rail connection to BER? Why only the S-Bahn?[/quote]

BER does not only have an S-Bahn connection, its also connected to the "big railway world" including a station. Several regional train lines will stop there. So theoretically also high speed trains could serve BER ... I just dont know the lenght of the platforms there ...

YYZLGA · Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:27 pm

BER is intended to have a regional express service that will make limited stops from Hauptbahnhof (only Gesundbrunnen and Ostkreuz) and will take 29 minutes. There'll also be some other RB services making limited stops from the major Stadtbahn stations like Alexanderplatz, Friedrichstrasse, and Zoo. In a few years, hopefully, the new route via Sudkreuz will open following some track work, and that will take only 20 minutes from Hauptbahnhof.

LTU932 · Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:19 pm

YYZLGA wrote:
BER is intended to have a regional express service that will make limited stops from Hauptbahnhof (only Gesundbrunnen and Ostkreuz) and will take 29 minutes. There'll also be some other RB services making limited stops from the major Stadtbahn stations like Alexanderplatz, Friedrichstrasse, and Zoo. In a few years, hopefully, the new route via Sudkreuz will open following some track work, and that will take only 20 minutes from Hauptbahnhof.

How long more or less will it take to connect via S-Bahn to the Stadtbahn or Ringbahn? 30 minutes? 40 minutes? Just curious. The S1 from HAM takes about 20 minutes to connect to Hamburg-Hauptbahnhof, and arrivals are made in such a way that you can directly connect to the Verbindungsbahn (aka Dammtor-Linie) via line S31. If you wanna bypass Hamburg-Altona, you'd have to wait a few minutes until the S21 arrives, which itself directly connects to the S3.

YYZLGA · Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:45 am

LTU932 wrote:
YYZLGA wrote:
BER is intended to have a regional express service that will make limited stops from Hauptbahnhof (only Gesundbrunnen and Ostkreuz) and will take 29 minutes. There'll also be some other RB services making limited stops from the major Stadtbahn stations like Alexanderplatz, Friedrichstrasse, and Zoo. In a few years, hopefully, the new route via Sudkreuz will open following some track work, and that will take only 20 minutes from Hauptbahnhof.
How long more or less will it take to connect via S-Bahn to the Stadtbahn or Ringbahn? 30 minutes? 40 minutes? Just curious. The S1 from HAM takes about 20 minutes to connect to Hamburg-Hauptbahnhof, and arrivals are made in such a way that you can directly connect to the Verbindungsbahn (aka Dammtor-Linie) via line S31. If you wanna bypass Hamburg-Altona, you'd have to wait a few minutes until the S21 arrives, which itself directly connects to the S3.

To the Ringbahn, I'd imagine the S-Bahn would take around 25 minutes like it does from SXF today. To the Stadtbahn it would probably take more like 45, but I would assume everyone would just take the RB stopping at Ostkreuz and Ostbahnhof. Probably more like 15 minutes to Ostkreuz.

Berliners were spoiled with the proximity of TXL (at least by car), but BER will be very well connected by rail by the standards of most airports.

lightsaber · Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:08 pm

I expected discussion, did I miss it? BER airport opening delayed again:
https://www.politico.eu/article/its-off ... postponed/

LoL.
Lightsaber

davidjohnson6 · Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:57 pm

lightsaber wrote:
I expected discussion, did I miss it? BER airport opening delayed again:
https://www.politico.eu/article/its-off ... postponed/

LoL.
Lightsaber

The news article seems to date from 21-Jan-2017

Kent350787 · Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:35 am

This is the most recent news item I can find, confirming others around that time for 31 October 2020 opening https://www.dw.com/en/long-delayed-berl ... a-54373752

PlaneSpottingBerlin has some interesting videos of the passenger test days if people are interested. Pre-Covid, my family was planning BER as our next big trip, so hopefully the new airport when it finally happens. I was last there in 1998 and they had already committed to construction....

ua900 · Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:23 am

TC957 wrote:
Noshow wrote:
No only helicopters will use it. A small Luftwaffe unit with just three Cougars. They might even limit flight movements to the north military apron leaving the Tegel runways open to remodeling.
At BER, actually at Schönfeld on the northern side, a new VIP building will take over all VIP aircraft. Possibly in the future more VIPs will be shuttled from BER to downtown by helicopter as traffic jams become harder with the new site more far away.

Thanks.
Seems odd to maintain that helicopter unit at Tegel Nord if there are no VIP jets to transfer anyone from & to. Or are there some kind of government buildings behind the Tegel Nord facility ?

Well, the chancellery and the Reichstag ;-)

It's about 15-20 minutes to TXL vs. 40-50 minutes to SXF. They won't need planes to transfer to if they're only going to Meseberg or Trinwillershagen ;-)

YYZLGA wrote:
BER is intended to have a regional express service that will make limited stops from Hauptbahnhof (only Gesundbrunnen and Ostkreuz) and will take 29 minutes. There'll also be some other RB services making limited stops from the major Stadtbahn stations like Alexanderplatz, Friedrichstrasse, and Zoo. In a few years, hopefully, the new route via Sudkreuz will open following some track work, and that will take only 20 minutes from Hauptbahnhof.

If memory serves right, there's also a lone Intercity connection via IC 17 to DRS and RLG with DB stating that other IC lines could be in the cards if that line works out.

JLGordon wrote:
Just as a side note: The new BER is farther away for our politicians than TXL. So they keep the Helicopters in TXL for our proud leaders, because these better thinking persons cannot afford the travel to BER in matter of time.
And these are the people that tell you to reduce and change your travels and best do everything by bicycle or walking. I would love to see Angie on a bike, going from Reichstag to BER. And best, together with obese Sigmar Gabriel on a tandem bike...

Exactly right, have the plebs stuck in traffic on the A100 or dealing with all the defects of BER while the leadership team continues to enjoy the convenience of TXL. Even second rate leaders don't use their bikes, not even within the city, let alone on their way to other towns.

Well documented from that time they used 16 limos for a "pedestrian summit": https://www.bz-berlin.de/landespolitik/ ... ngergipfel

Or when they use limousines to open new railroad routes. Beats sitting on the inaugural train first class. Their vote is clear.

Nicknuzzii · Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:34 am

Is it confirmed United is moving to BER?

ua900 · Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:53 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Is it confirmed United is moving to BER?

Technically the current plan is for United to resume flying to TXL on Oct 24th. One would assume that if TXL does close on Nov 8th as projected that United makes the move to BER, along with every other airline.

Revelation · Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:08 pm

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/b ... 54.article suggests things are on track for an opening on 31 October. For those worrying that BER is not big enough, the almighty one heard you and adjusted the size of the air traffic market.

SCQ83 · Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:35 pm

Revelation wrote:
https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/berlin-brandenburg-preps-for-31-october-opening-following-long-troubled-slog/139954.article suggests things are on track for an opening on 31 October. For those worrying that BER is not big enough, the almighty one heard you and adjusted the size of the air traffic market.

In addition the Berlin market (notwithstanding COVID) was very overheated and overserved, specially on low-cost carriers. easyJet and Ryanair launched routes left and right just to keep competing with the same airport pair with the other carrier. For instance easyJet operated Tegel-Pula and Schonefeld-Pula or Tegel-Corfu and Schonefeld-Corfu.

Duplicating those minor destinations from several different airports might make sense in London or Paris, but the Berlin market is not as big or wealthy to grant that.

IMO BER is an opportunity to put some "order" in that mess. In addition, since BER (once COVID ends) will automatically become a busier airport (TXL+SXF were about 36 million passengers last year; that is more than Vienna or Dublin) that might attract some new long haul carriers.

T4thH · Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:56 pm

Revelation wrote:
https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/berlin-brandenburg-preps-for-31-october-opening-following-long-troubled-slog/139954.article suggests things are on track for an opening on 31 October. For those worrying that BER is not big enough, the almighty one heard you and adjusted the size of the air traffic market.

They have on 26-Aug-2020 successfully performed the disaster check at BER/railwaystation below BER. This was also the last "important" certification test, all others have not any more this importance.
https://www.rbb24.de/politik/Flughafen-BER/BER-Aktuelles/akteure_aktuell/2020/08/ber-havarieuebung-feuerwehr-brand-bahnsteig-komparsen.html

Only question is now, if Terminal II will also open already on 31-Oct-2020. It was said, they will earliest know end of Aug-2020, if they will complete Terminal II right in time or will need one or two month or even only few days more. I have not seen new information till now (this was in Jul-2020). The Terminal II completion has been harmed by COVID-19.

There are some other expansions already under construction like the 15 additional parking places for jets, to be completed end of 2021. This is also on track.
https://www.aerotelegraph.com/flughafen-berlin-brandenburg-baustelle-wo-am-ber-noch-gebaut-wird

flyingturtle · Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:32 am

If the states of Berlin, Brandenburg and as well as the federal government don't inject about 300 million Euros into the airport company, it will be bankrupt on opening day.

Until 2024, the airport company (FBB, Flughafen Berlin-Brandenburg) is in need of 1.5 billions in order to keep the airport ops running.

Because governmental aid has to be approved due to EU laws, the EU commission can reject them. If this happens, FBB has to be sold to private investors, wholly or in part.

https://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/das- ... 62720.html

Noshow · Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:43 am

I think they will get the EU greenlight. Everybody is Alitalia now.

mxaxai · Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:11 pm

The new terminal 2 will be ready on time by October 31, but will not enter service until summer 2021 due to continued low passenger numbers. The terminal can be activated "quickly", if need be, but not operating it will save the airport approx. 0.5 million € per month.
https://www.airliners.de/terminal-ber/57531 [German]

mxaxai · Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:51 pm

https://www.rbb24.de/politik/Flughafen- ... endet.html [German]
Test runs - which have been ongoing since June - resulted in "82% success". The target was "at least 80%"; the results will be examined in detail next week but so far everything seems ready for real operations in 2 weeks.

davidjohnson6 · Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:28 pm

With quarantine requirements now propagating fast... who exactly is going to be travelling through BER when it opens ? Is the opening going to be just a ceremony with lots of Govt people seeking photo opportunities, along with zero passengers ?

PANAMsterdam · Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:00 pm

mxaxai wrote:
https://www.rbb24.de/politik/Flughafen-BER/BER-Aktuelles/akteure_aktuell/2020/10/probebetrieb-ber-beendet.html [German]
Test runs - which have been ongoing since June - resulted in "82% success". The target was "at least 80%"; the results will be examined in detail next week but so far everything seems ready for real operations in 2 weeks.

With an 82% succes rate, i am wondering what the 18% failure rate means. Can anyone comment on that?

oldJoe · Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:21 pm

PANAMsterdam wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
https://www.rbb24.de/politik/Flughafen-BER/BER-Aktuelles/akteure_aktuell/2020/10/probebetrieb-ber-beendet.html [German]
Test runs - which have been ongoing since June - resulted in "82% success". The target was "at least 80%"; the results will be examined in detail next week but so far everything seems ready for real operations in 2 weeks.

With an 82% succes rate, i am wondering what the 18% failure rate means. Can anyone comment on that?

I`m wondering the same. They tell us 82% success but the results will examined in detail next week ? From where they have this 82% ? In my opinion everything is glossed over aigain !
If I let build a house I defentily would not be satisfied with 82%. Even the ontime of Deutsche Bahn with 86% is better than this.

mxaxai · Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:52 pm

oldJoe wrote:
PANAMsterdam wrote:
With an 82% succes rate, i am wondering what the 18% failure rate means. Can anyone comment on that?

I`m wondering the same. They tell us 82% success but the results will examined in detail next week ? From where they have this 82% ? In my opinion everything is glossed over aigain !
If I let build a house I defentily would not be satisfied with 82%. Even the ontime of Deutsche Bahn with 86% is better than this.

I agree. 80% seems like a pretty low goal, though I have no idea what they assessed to arrive at that number. I think the review next week is more a formality that there are no critical issues among the 18% failed tasks.

davidjohnson6 wrote:
With quarantine requirements now propagating fast... who exactly is going to be travelling through BER when it opens ?

Travelling? No idea. Probably young people looking for a cheap vacation.
Flying? Easyjet wants to offer some flights, at least. LH group (and probably all other EU legacies) will also offer flights initially.
Interview with the boss of Easyjet Germany https://www.airliners.de/der-ber-rolle- ... werk/57790 [German]:

What role will the new capital city airport play in the Easyjet plans in the future?

Germany and Berlin are a strategically important part of our network and the new BER will therefore play a central role in our European network.

Since the takeover of the Air-Berlin market, Easyjet has only lost money flying in Berlin...

Although we have made progress with our investments in Berlin, the challenges that have prevented Berlin from catching up economically with other bases within the network remain. Covid-19 has further exacerbated this problem, and it is therefore our goal to ensure the economic stability of the company and jobs in the long term. [goes on to talk about negotiations with the unions]

Do you dare to make a traffic forecast for the coming months?

Based on current travel restrictions, we expect to fly about 25 percent of our planned capacity in the first quarter of our 2021 fiscal year (October through December, editor's note), but we reserve the flexibility to ramp up capacity quickly if we see an increase in demand and early booking numbers for summer 2021 are consistent with previous years.

In which business segments do you expect the fastest recovery?

The corona pandemic is a drastic challenge to which we are currently responding flexibly with our flight schedule and aligning it with demand. We assume that tourist air travel will recover faster than business travel. ...

mxaxai · Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:18 pm

Some more details today https://www.rbb24.de/politik/Flughafen- ... hstum.html :

Following test feedback, the signage had been improved, the monitors had been optimized, and they have now set up new garbage containers that can be used to dispose of "a coffee cup", which was not really exected in the planning ten years ago.
[...]
The Berlin-Brandenburg airport company will not invest in the expansion of the airport for another two to three years at the earliest. "We will only make further investments in growth once air traffic has normalized."

5,000 passengers are expected for day 1, rising to 16,000 when TXL is closed completely a week later. That's approximately 20% of the expected volume and far less than the nominal capacity but should help them work out any issues that arise during initial operations.

max999 · Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:48 am

So is there a summary of the airport opening events? This article describes the last flight at TXL and the first flights at BER. I would like to see other information about the opening.

https://simpleflying.com/berlin-new-air ... countdown/

Tolmachevo · Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:14 am

max999 wrote:
So is there a summary of the airport opening events? This article describes the last flight at TXL and the first flights at BER. I would like to see other information about the opening.

https://simpleflying.com/berlin-new-air ... countdown/

Detailed information on the events running from October 25 until November 8 can be seen here: https://media-ber.berlin-airport.de/en.html

Here are the main dates though:
25th October – Opening of BER train station
25th October – SXF becomes BER
31st October – Opening BER Terminal 1
1st November – BER first full day
4th November – Opening the southern runway of BER
8th November – Closing down TXL

Tolmachevo · Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:20 am

As of today, the IATA code for Berlin Schönefeld SXF is no longer in use and has been replaced by BER.

There are about 40 departures today and 30 arrivals. https://ber.berlin-airport.de/

Noshow · Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:30 am

Just open it.

SCQ83 · Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:20 pm

So has BER T5 (aka SXF) at least been refreshed?

Schönefeld was easily the worst airport experience anywhere in a civilised country.

mxaxai · Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:07 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
So has BER T5 (aka SXF) at least been refreshed?

Slightly. They made some cosmetic changes, like repaint some walls and put up new signs. Parts of the sanitary and security facilities were also updated and expanded, mostly in area 'K'. But other than that T5 will still give you the ultimate LCC experience.

Breathe · Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:22 pm

Goodness me! After years of delays we are now literally days away from Berlin Airport finally opening.

Given all the problems this airport has been beset with, I hope the opening goes smoothly.

calstanford · Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:53 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
So has BER T5 (aka SXF) at least been refreshed?

Schönefeld was easily the worst airport experience anywhere in a civilised country.

Kind of cute you call Berlin civilised

par13del · Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:24 pm

I trust they will have the military all lined up at TXL on the day it closes, if they dynamite the runways they ensure that there is no going back from the new BER and the politicians, engineers and any other flunkies will have no choice but to support and pay whatever bill comes due to keep BER open as there will be no other choice.
Imagine the chaos if they do not dynamite TXL and something happens at BER, the news will be made public and everyone will run back to TXL, dynamite ensures that it is in everyone's best interest to selectively report any failure as immaterial to the safe and smooth operation of the new airport.

PANAMsterdam · Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:00 pm

I’m gonna miss TXL a lot :cry:

. It was so bad that is was good. It fitted Berlin, and the airport has such a history! Being an important destination for PanAm as well. You can still see the A300/310’s and 727 here on a.net!

Noshow · Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:02 pm

They have to keep TXL "operational" (as in mothballed) for six more months after the BER opening.

Airdolomiti · Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:09 am

Hard to believe it’s actually happening!

The railway station underneath Terminal 1 was officially inaugurated yesterday in a low-key ceremony. Suburban trains are already running as of today, all other trains will serve the new station as of Saturday.

The new Terminal 1 will be open to the public as of Saturday evening, with the first scheduled arrivals (all U2). The first departures will take place on Sunday. Aside from U2, QR and TK will also move to BER on November 1. All other airlines will switch to BER between then and the evening of November 7. The only flight to operate out of TXL on November 8 will be the last AF service to CDG.

Noshow wrote:
They have to keep TXL "operational" (as in mothballed) for six more months after the BER opening.

Correct - the six-month deadline starts as soon as both runways at BER are in simultaneous operation, i.e. with the official commissioning of BER’s southern runway on November 4. Before that, the two runways will see a parallel landing for the opening ceremony this Saturday thanks to a one-time special permit.

steman · Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:27 am

I went to TXL yesterday, to the visitor terrace on top of Terminal 1 (the original hexagonal one). It was a bitter sweet experience. There´s this atmosphere of end of an era, of "will the last one please turn the light off" feeling.
Very little traffic, the highlight was QR 787 taking off. But lots of people on the huge terrace (it runs all around the roof of T1).
At the same time there´s a feeling of something new and better starting on the opposite side of Berlin, south east from TXL. I´m very excited about BER. Even though it is way more distant for me to reach (1 hour by public transport as opposed to 30 min to TXL) I am looking forward to finally have a home airport which looks and feels like a modern international facility. But TXL had lots of advantages too, being so compact and easy to navigate and so close to the West and Central part of Berlin. It will be missed.

fraport · Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:48 am

Noshow wrote:
They have to keep TXL "operational" (as in mothballed) for six more months after the BER opening.

No, they don't have to. They could have kept it operational for up to six months, if there was a necessity. But it's not an obligation.

TC957 · Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:24 am

What will happen to the VIP facilities at Tegel North ? Will the Luftwaffe VIP fleet still be able to land there in future ?
Also, is there a decent observation viewing deck at BER ?

dazeflight · Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:44 am

TC957 wrote:
What will happen to the VIP facilities at Tegel North ? Will the Luftwaffe VIP fleet still be able to land there in future ?

Tegel North will still be used for Helicopters for a while, while the new temporary state facilities have already been inaugurated last week - the last official VIP state guest in TXL north was Iraqi Government 738 YI-ASF.

TC957 wrote:
Also, is there a decent observation viewing deck at BER ?

There is a big one on the main pier, unfortunately with glass walls.

cirrusdragoon · Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:11 am

It appears another design flaw . No downward escalators to the train platforms . Travelers at BER must carry their suitcases down the stairs to the platform themselves.

At the three underground platforms, three entrances lead to Terminal 1 each. But next to the steps, there is always only one upward escalator. Travelers can't get down to the track this way. If you come out of the terminal with heavy luggage in the future, you have to lift suitcases and bags down to the train with your own strength, or wait for one of the three elevators per platform. News link in german

Noshow · Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:45 am

No, they don't have to. They could have kept it operational for up to six months, if there was a necessity. But it's not an obligation.

They will do it however you want to call it. It will be guarded and ready to be reused. However it will not be on immediate standby 24/7.

mxaxai · Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:50 am

Straight copy from the LH thread, might be interesting for some spotters:
An A350-900 will visit TXL one last time on Nov 7.

LH1954 MUC1900 – 2010TXL 359 07NOV20
LH1955 TXL2110 – 2220MUC 359 07NOV20
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... n-07nov20/

dazeflight · Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:51 pm

Quick logic question: how is this an issue:

cirrusdragoon wrote:
Travelers at BER must carry their suitcases down the stairs to the platform themselves.

if this is possible:

cirrusdragoon wrote:
or wait for one of the three elevators per platform

- especially considering heavy suitcases and the like are anyway not allowed on escalators? In other words: how is this relevant at all outside of the circles of TXL-objectophiles who seek any straw they can find to make BER worse than it is? On the positive side though: if this is what's left of BER-criticism (and it seems to be case in respect to german social media of the past days), BER doesn't seem to be bad at all.

PANAMsterdam · Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:37 pm

dazeflight wrote:

- especially considering heavy suitcases and the like are anyway not allowed on escalators? In other words: how is this relevant at all outside of the circles of TXL-objectophiles who seek any straw they can find to make BER worse than it is? On the positive side though: if this is what's left of BER-criticism (and it seems to be case in respect to german social media of the past days), BER doesn't seem to be bad at all.

I've always dragged my suitcase up or down the escalators to/from the train platform at AMS. They even made 'flat' escalators, to prevent suitcases from falling off the steps of regular escalators. So yes, it IS an error from BER. 40% of passengers traveling to/from AMS arrive/depart by Train. Imagine if they all had to wait on three elevators.

mxaxai · Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:47 pm

PANAMsterdam wrote:
I've always dragged my suitcase up or down the escalators to/from the train platform at AMS. They even made 'flat' escalators, to prevent suitcases from falling off the steps of regular escalators. So yes, it IS an error from BER. 40% of passengers traveling to/from AMS arrive/depart by Train. Imagine if they all had to wait on three elevators.

The airport train station has 3 platforms, so that should make it 9 elevators in total. Many other train stations in Germany have only 1 elevator (or sometimes none) per platform and often no escalators.

Escalators are convenient but I don't expect it to be a major issue in operation.

dazeflight · Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:06 pm

PANAMsterdam wrote:
40% of passengers traveling to/from AMS arrive/depart by Train. Imagine if they all had to wait on three elevators.

Does the majority of the passengers at AMS who use public transport consist of persons with physical disablities? If not, then why do you suggest that each and everyone of them would have to wait for an elevator instead of using regular stairs?

Antarius · Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:38 pm

dazeflight wrote:
PANAMsterdam wrote:
40% of passengers traveling to/from AMS arrive/depart by Train. Imagine if they all had to wait on three elevators.

Does the majority of the passengers at AMS who use public transport consist of persons with physical disablities? If not, then why do you suggest that each and everyone of them would have to wait for an elevator instead of using regular stairs?

Stairs with luggage isn't convenient.

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