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Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:05 pm
by zakuivcustom
Surprise...surprise...what about no.

Seriously, they could have just build a new airport from scratch by now (Including EIS, land acquisition, new runways, new terminals, etc.)

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:12 pm
by Revelation
OGLOBAL wrote:
for gods sake just demolish the whole terminal and build a new one it will take less time and cost less ...

That would defeat the purpose of keeping local officials and their cronies in a position to hand out large chunks of money to others.

The only way to finish the airport is to give them some other cash cow to milk.

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:21 pm
by Sand0rf
This things is starting to become more and more insane. I can remember back in 2012 when BER was originally scheduled to open they came up with a plan for 'Fire spotters' that would look for fire throughout the terminal:

Confronted with the fire system fiasco, Rainer Schwarz, chief executive officer of Flughafen Berlin Brandenburg (FBB), the airport company owned by the city of Berlin, the state of Brandenburg, and the federal government, downplayed it. Schwarz and his staff told the airport’s board of oversight, as well as Stephan Loge, the commissioner of Dahme-Spreewald County, who had the final authority to issue the airport an operating license, that they were working through some issues, but that the situation was under control. Schwarz also appointed an emergency task force to propose solutions that would allow the airport to open on time. In March 2012 the group submitted its stopgap: Eight hundred low-paid workers armed with cell phones would take up positions throughout the terminal. If anyone smelled smoke or saw a fire, he would alert the airport fire station and direct passengers toward the exits. Never mind that the region’s cell phone networks were notoriously unreliable, or that some students would be stationed near the smoke evacuation channels, where in a fire temperatures could reach 1,000F.

Source

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:32 pm
by WayexTDI
kalvado wrote:
wexfordflyer wrote:
HOly crap. What happened to German efficiency?

When did construction start?

This millennium, so not that long ago.

Per Wikipedia:
After almost 15 years of planning, construction began in 2006. Originally planned to open in October 2011, the airport has encountered a series of delays and cost overruns. These were due to poor construction planning, execution, management, as well as corruption. Autumn 2020 became the new target for the official opening date as 2019 became too improbable. A new TÜV report published in November 2017 suggested that the opening could even be delayed until 2021.

So, planning started in 1991, 28 years ago!!!
And construction started in 2006, 13 years ago!!!

How long does it take to build an airport? 40-50 years???
Be realistic, it's beyond screwed-up.

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:38 pm
by lightsaber
WayexTDI wrote:
kalvado wrote:
wexfordflyer wrote:
HOly crap. What happened to German efficiency?

When did construction start?

This millennium, so not that long ago.

Per Wikipedia:
After almost 15 years of planning, construction began in 2006. Originally planned to open in October 2011, the airport has encountered a series of delays and cost overruns. These were due to poor construction planning, execution, management, as well as corruption. Autumn 2020 became the new target for the official opening date as 2019 became too improbable. A new TÜV report published in November 2017 suggested that the opening could even be delayed until 2021.

So, planning started in 1991, 28 years ago!!!
And construction started in 2006, 13 years ago!!!

How long does it take to build an airport? 40-50 years???
Be realistic, it's beyond screwed-up.

It is time to shut down the program, demolish it, and assign to a new bidder under a completely new oversight structure. Simple rule, any government employee,/politician involved in the prior effort is blacklisted from the new project. No input from the prior agencies. Oh, while at it, 3 runways, 24/7 too.

What a disgrace.

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:45 pm
by LTU1011
Next level embarrassing tbth. The runway seems just about fine - although was some years ago at ILA since I last saw it in the flesh...

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:45 pm
by OA940
How they haven't managed to fix the fire detector problems after 7 years is beyond my comprehension.

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:55 pm
by yuomi
Ironically BER had only just invited airlines to participate in talks around operations with a view to the October 2020 opening date going ahead.

https://www.passengerterminaltoday.com/ ... tions.html

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:56 pm
by Aesma
Sand0rf wrote:
This things is starting to become more and more insane. I can remember back in 2012 when BER was originally scheduled to open they came up with a plan for 'Fire spotters' that would look for fire throughout the terminal:

Confronted with the fire system fiasco, Rainer Schwarz, chief executive officer of Flughafen Berlin Brandenburg (FBB), the airport company owned by the city of Berlin, the state of Brandenburg, and the federal government, downplayed it. Schwarz and his staff told the airport’s board of oversight, as well as Stephan Loge, the commissioner of Dahme-Spreewald County, who had the final authority to issue the airport an operating license, that they were working through some issues, but that the situation was under control. Schwarz also appointed an emergency task force to propose solutions that would allow the airport to open on time. In March 2012 the group submitted its stopgap: Eight hundred low-paid workers armed with cell phones would take up positions throughout the terminal. If anyone smelled smoke or saw a fire, he would alert the airport fire station and direct passengers toward the exits. Never mind that the region’s cell phone networks were notoriously unreliable, or that some students would be stationed near the smoke evacuation channels, where in a fire temperatures could reach 1,000F.

Source


Tell me that plan was a April fools' day joke ?

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 2:06 pm
by LH748
It's no surprise really. Did anyone seriously believe that this airport would still get finished. It's a complete disaster and people just don't dare to admit it and stop the it. They rather burn millions and millions of euros which is even more outrageous.
Give the contract to a Chinese airport construction company and build something completely new. That's the only solution I see if Berlin ever wants to have a new airport

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 2:37 pm
by Mat1776
To me with a limited brain capacity, BER looks to be nothing more than an expansion of and existing Berlin Schönefeld Airport with a new runway, taxiways, and a terminal building and a new name.

It's not a brand new airport.
And, only the new terminal building has issues that prevent the expansion to be completed.

So, why not just rebuild the terminal with a new design, contractors, and construction oversight?

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 3:40 pm
by lightsaber
Mat1776 wrote:
To me with a limited brain capacity, BER looks to be nothing more than an expansion of and existing Berlin Schönefeld Airport with a new runway, taxiways, and a terminal building and a new name.

It's not a brand new airport.
And, only the new terminal building has issues that prevent the expansion to be completed.

So, why not just rebuild the terminal with a new design, contractors, and construction oversight?

It's not you. The BER project has so many political issues, limited brain capacity was applied.

Lightsaber

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 3:57 pm
by StrandedAtMKG
If planning for this boondoggle started in 1991 and it's not going to be open until the mid-2020s, I can't help but think the transportation needs of the Berlin region must have changed/grown dramatically since then and BER might not be adequate anymore. In the meantime, Berlin is stuck with a patchwork of three airports that just aren't cutting it. I'm starting to think there's some merit to the idea of just bulldozing the terminal at BER and starting over.

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 4:06 pm
by m66
lightsaber wrote:
It is time to shut down the program, demolish it, and assign to a new bidder under a completely new oversight structure. Simple rule, any government employee,/politician involved in the prior effort is blacklisted from the new project. No input from the prior agencies. Oh, while at it, 3 runways, 24/7 too.

What a disgrace.


It is worse than that: they are already working on a first extension of the terminals supposed to be finished in 2021 ... and guess what, they already are mentioning probable delays.

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 4:32 pm
by Dieuwer
In the mean time, New Istanbul Airport is open and running. :D

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 4:53 pm
by TWA772LR
Dieuwer wrote:
In the mean time, New Istanbul Airport is open and running. :D

And Heathrow will get a 3rd runway and Detroit will have EK A380 service.

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 5:13 am
by SkyVoice
The Germans are just as disgusted--even more so--than the rest of the world about BER. Check this website out . . .

http://www.istderberschonfertig.de/

It is in German only, but Google Translate does a good job for me.

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 6:28 am
by MHG
StrandedAtMKG wrote:
In the meantime, Berlin is stuck with a patchwork of three airports that just aren't cutting it.

Even worse they already intentionally reduced the portfolio to only two airports (SXF/BER and TXL) by closing THF in 2008 in anticipation of the on-time opening of BER ...
Btw. that´s why TXL already operates waaaay over its projected capacity for years.
... and the mantra is that TXL must be closed when BER opens.
It is repeatedly stated that due to the legal framework closure of TXL 6 months after BER´s opening is unavoidable.
Personally I don´t believe there´s really no way around that if there´s a will - but we´re facing here a political unwillingness based on ideology not reality.
So, BER on its opening day will already run at more than 100% of its projected capacity ...

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 8:27 am
by davidjohnson6
The new BER airport has a design capacity of 27 million pax per year
Tegel + Schoenefeld airports saw 35.8 million pax from Apr 2018 - Mar 2019 (source = http://www.adv.aero)

It is expected that Schoenefeld's existing terminal will remain open once the new BER terminal opens - they are after all 2 terminal on the same airport site
SXF as the old East German airport is currently handling about 12m pax per year (it *really* struggles to achieve this - as a passenger it is significantly less pleasant than Tegel)
If the remaining 23.8m pax migrate to BER we would find the new BER terminal operating at 88% of design capacity on day 1. It is pretty clear that BER is simply not big enough

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 8:55 am
by andrej
I hope that this is not true. The entire BER saga is like a comedy. It is very unGerman like to have such a poor planning, construction, and fitting issues.

BER is not big enough and they should already plan construction of another terminal. Till this day I question reasons to close THF and urgency to focus all operations only on BER.

The Focus magazine reports that Spiegel's article is misunderstanding. Now I am not sure who is more realiable (Focus vs. Spiegel), but the damage control is in a full swing.

https://m.focus.de/finanzen/news/naechs ... 94512.html

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 9:14 am
by cedarjet
Pyongyang’s new airport (same site as the old one but new terminal and new runway) is fantastic and only took c. 4 years. Cheers comrades!

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 11:06 am
by mxaxai
MHG wrote:
Even worse they already intentionally reduced the portfolio to only two airports (SXF/BER and TXL) by closing THF in 2008 in anticipation of the on-time opening of BER ...
Btw. that´s why TXL already operates waaaay over its projected capacity for years.

THF was tiny and had no room for expansion. TXL is way over capacity because any improvements were considered unnecessary with BER opening "soon".
MHG wrote:
... and the mantra is that TXL must be closed when BER opens.
It is repeatedly stated that due to the legal framework closure of TXL 6 months after BER´s opening is unavoidable.
Personally I don´t believe there´s really no way around that if there´s a will - but we´re facing here a political unwillingness based on ideology not reality.
So, BER on its opening day will already run at more than 100% of its projected capacity ...

Actually, BER operating over 100% of its capacity is the only way for TXL to remain open. There is an agreement between Berlin and Brandenburg (the surrounding state) to concentrate Berlin's traffic on one airport, if possible. Brandenburg is absolutely unwilling to change that agreement - they have nothing to gain from TXL - so Berlin has to prove that BER cannot cope with the traffic.
Then there is not just ideology, but the expected public pressure against TXL and the accompanying lawsuits. Few politicians are willing to face that pressure, regardless of their personal opinion regarding the airport. Especially if they want to keep their well paid government positions.

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 12:12 pm
by cedarjet
I love Tegel so much. I hope Brandenburg never opens

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 12:17 pm
by aemoreira1981
Breathe wrote:
OGLOBAL wrote:
for gods sake just demolish the whole terminal and build a new one it will take less time and cost less ...

In the time its taken so far, they probably could have demolished the terminal, rebuilt it, demolish it again and rebuilt it a third time and it probably would have taken less time and cost less!!!


I came here precisely to say that! It would have been better, but also politically disastrous, to just demolish the building and build the terminal anew. Alternatively, just build the second runway for BER and a new terminal next to the existing one for SXF.

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 12:33 pm
by LTU932
lightsaber wrote:
It's not you. The BER project has so many political issues, limited brain capacity was applied.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

That is so sad, it's automatically funny again.
mxaxai wrote:
Actually, BER operating over 100% of its capacity is the only way for TXL to remain open. There is an agreement between Berlin and Brandenburg (the surrounding state) to concentrate Berlin's traffic on one airport, if possible. Brandenburg is absolutely unwilling to change that agreement - they have nothing to gain from TXL - so Berlin has to prove that BER cannot cope with the traffic.
Then there is not just ideology, but the expected public pressure against TXL and the accompanying lawsuits. Few politicians are willing to face that pressure, regardless of their personal opinion regarding the airport. Especially if they want to keep their well paid government positions.
Let's not forget: After the EU and some regional elections, we will have three state elections, two of those in September and that includes Brandenburg. The SPD government under Dietmar Woidke is under heavy pressure from the so-called AfD if you look at recent surveys. It will be near impossible to form a government but I still fear that, for campaign reasons, any decisions on BER will be delayed until after the elections, which means it will be delayed indefinitely if no government coalition can be formed and thus we could face that the current conditions will kick in by default.

Berlin won't hold elections until probably around September 2021, just before the federal elections. But AFAIK, Berlin already ruled out to step back on the closure of TXL, unless something happened. They want to turn TXL into a new neighbourhood that has apartments that nobody can afford except for the rich (similar to what they want to do with the old Altona Station over in Hamburg, which is supposed to be moved to where the current S-Bahn station Diebsteich is located).

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 12:33 pm
by steman
aemoreira1981 wrote:

I came here precisely to say that! It would have been better, but also politically disastrous, to just demolish the building and build the terminal anew. Alternatively, just build the second runway for BER and a new terminal next to the existing one for SXF.


It already has a second runway. BER has two runways. The north one used to be SXF Southern Runway and the South one is completely new. The masterplan calls for expansion of the existing structures with additional Terminals:
T2 is being built right behind the north pier, on the land side. It will be dedicated to low cost operations and will be connected directly to the north pier (which does not have fingers and it´s specifically been designed for low cost ops). A T3/4 will be built east of the current main terminal T1. On google maps one can see that right now there´s just an empty rectangular space. It will connect to the extension of both the North Pier and South pier, which are also part of the masterplan. Finally, T1 will receive up to two satellites on the west side of it, the first of which will be directly connected to the main body.
Of course this is just the masterplan. If this will actually happens remains to be seen.

In the meantime, even without knowing when the new airport will finally open, they have announced the division of the Terminals among the airlines: T1 will be used by LH and Easyjet. Eurowings will use T2. Ryanair will stay in SXF, provisionally called T5. The others have yet to be announced
First things first, they need to fix T1 and finally open it before all this can happen.

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 12:46 pm
by davidjohnson6
I'm a little curious on one thing - how come the Federal Govt has not become more involved ? I understand about the individual Lander / states having autonomy but at some point national Govt (subject to legislative agreement by the Bundestag) presumably can choose to overrule local politicians on issues of national importance. There seems to be broad acceptance in public opinion both locally and nationally that BER has been chaos. I can't imagine that Spain (with a similiar history in the 1930s onwards and a highly regionally devolved Govt) would have allowed such a farce in Madrid's airport. We're not talking about a minor regional airport here...

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 1:09 pm
by WIederling
wexfordflyer wrote:
HOly crap. What happened to German efficiency?


THAT is German efficiency. Who else could draw out a construction abortion to 20 years without going broke.:-)
The political decission against the suitable locations Sperenberg and Jüterbog-Ost and towards a restructuring of Schönefeld
was effected in 1996.

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 1:17 pm
by LTU932
davidjohnson6 wrote:
I'm a little curious on one thing - how come the Federal Govt has not become more involved ? I understand about the individual Lander / states having autonomy but at some point national Govt (subject to legislative agreement by the Bundestag) presumably can choose to overrule local politicians on issues of national importance.
The federal government does indeed co-finance BER with federal tax money (as they do with many other projects), but the bulk of the money comes from tax payers in Berlin and Brandenburg. The federal government overruling the two states could cause a constitutional crisis of sorts, because I believe these kinds of rights are denied to the federal government unless it's something completely unconstitutional on a federal level (each state has its own state constitutions). So all the federal government can do is threaten to cut funding and talk, that's it.

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 1:17 pm
by WIederling
davidjohnson6 wrote:
I'm a little curious on one thing - how come the Federal Govt has not become more involved ? I understand about the individual Lander / states having autonomy but at some point national Govt (subject to legislative agreement by the Bundestag) presumably can choose to overrule local politicians on issues of national importance. There seems to be broad acceptance in public opinion both locally and nationally that BER has been chaos. I can't imagine that Spain (with a similiar history in the 1930s onwards and a highly regionally devolved Govt) would have allowed such a farce in Madrid's airport. We're not talking about a minor regional airport here...


(Federal) Ministry of Transport has been led by some CSU polytick from Bavaria for quite a number of years now.
Entangling BER is beneficial to MUC. ( Just like increasing beyond reason safety requirements for "Traditionsschiffe"
moves youth from the coasts for sailing to the mountains for climbing.)

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 5:05 pm
by chunhimlai
Soon we will see BER airport as wonder in “age of the empire”

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 9:29 pm
by LTU932
chunhimlai wrote:
Soon we will see BER airport as wonder in “age of the empire”
No need to be that optimistic. In my opinion BER won't open until Captain Picard takes over the USS Enterprise in 2364. :stirthepot:

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:22 pm
by Breathe
wexfordflyer wrote:
HOly crap. What happened to German efficiency?

When did construction start?

Berlin isn't really representative of the rest of Germany to be fair.

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 1:22 pm
by Lpbri
I must be late for this, but what, in a nutshell is wrong with this facility again?

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 1:38 pm
by WayexTDI
Lpbri wrote:
I must be late for this, but what, in a nutshell is wrong with this facility again?

In a nutshell? Everything

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 3:08 pm
by flyingturtle
emuwarveteran wrote:
G E R M A N E N G I N E E R I N G ... planes will be replaced by hyperloops and flying cars by the time they open the damn airport


Engineering at BER is fine.

Project planning/management is a disaster.

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 5:14 pm
by AirlineCritic
First all those problems with the building, and now also shaky grounds :D

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 5:36 pm
by mchei
What happened to German efficiency?
I don’t know.
Google Elbphilharmonie. Look at BER. And it even gets worse. Google the Gorch Fock and you will get to know that today we aren’t even able to renovate a vessel. It’s a shame.
We should send a group of German engineers to the Sagrada Familia in Barcelona. Seems to be the kind of project we like...

Re: Report: BER Oct 2020 opening on shaky grounds

Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 7:38 pm
by LAX772LR
Lpbri wrote:
I must be late for this, but what, in a nutshell is wrong with this facility again?

Piss-poor planning + design shortfalls, most notably in its fire suppression system, which still isn't functional after 7 years of targeted effort and multiple re-designs.

Re: Report: New BER airport unlikely to open before 2021

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:25 pm
by flyingturtle
The mayor of Berlin has just announced that the long-awaited University of Witchcraft and Wizardry will open in July. Because it needs some camouflage, all you muggles can see is an unfinished airport...

In other news: The federal secretary of transportation, Andreas Scheuer, confirmed in a letter to the airport CEO, Engelbert Daldrup, that the buffer time for opening BER in October 2020 is "extremely tight."

Still too many fire safety issues...

Re: Report: New BER airport unlikely to open before 2021

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:05 pm
by enilria
If it’s due to open within 2 years its due for the next delay.

Re: Report: New BER airport unlikely to open before 2021

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:25 pm
by ITSTours
I thought Germany was known for its engineering...
Now I think it will be faster if they completely tear down the airport and ask Koreans to build the new one.

Re: Report: New BER airport unlikely to open before 2021

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:28 pm
by braniff2hav
My goodness... everything tech wise will be out of date before the place ever opens.

Re: Report: New BER airport unlikely to open before 2021

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:38 am
by santi319
I say they just change the whole thing and make it the museum of trolling.

Re: BER News and Discussion Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:33 am
by SQ22
I just have changed the thread title, with this neverending story welcome to the official BER News and Discussion Thread

Re: BER News and Discussion Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:07 am
by gfly
Turn over engineering to an Indian company, construction to the Chinese and the Germans can handle the invoicing.

Re: Report: New BER airport unlikely to open before 2021

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:55 am
by LTU932
ITSTours wrote:
I thought Germany was known for its engineering...
Yes, but if a project is being run by the government (local, state or federal), it's all about cost cutting. Even with prestige projects such as BER or Stuttgart 21, they give the projects to the lowest bidders, and then it only takes like a year or two minimum for the entire project to go overbudget because of things such as fundamental design flaws (which came to be because of the initial cost cutting), union problems and the sheer incompetence by the authorities to supervise the projects. And in the end, the tax payer has to pick up the tab, to never see that money again, while even people who get fired are fitted with a golden parachute to keep them from suing.

Re: Report: New BER airport unlikely to open before 2021

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:24 pm
by DUSdude
LTU932 wrote:
ITSTours wrote:
I thought Germany was known for its engineering...
Yes, but if a project is being run by the government (local, state or federal), it's all about cost cutting. Even with prestige projects such as BER or Stuttgart 21, they give the projects to the lowest bidders, and then it only takes like a year or two minimum for the entire project to go overbudget because of things such as fundamental design flaws (which came to be because of the initial cost cutting), union problems and the sheer incompetence by the authorities to supervise the projects. And in the end, the tax payer has to pick up the tab, to never see that money again, while even people who get fired are fitted with a golden parachute to keep them from suing.


In all fairness, it wasn't that long ago that DUS proved that all of this could be done in German, on time and on budget and with an architecturally pleasing result. The problem at BER always was that they never had one single general contractor who would oversee the rest.

Re: Report: New BER airport unlikely to open before 2021

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:03 pm
by Lilienthal
LTU932 wrote:
... because of things such as fundamental design flaws (which came to be because of the initial cost cutting), union problems and the sheer incompetence by the authorities to supervise the projects.



Never heard of unions playing any role in the BER debacle... What do you mean?

Re: Report: New BER airport unlikely to open before 2021

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:24 pm
by flyingturtle
ITSTours wrote:
I thought Germany was known for its engineering...


It's absolutely not about engineering here. It's about project planning and systems integration.

So the company handed out contracts for subsidiary work, like power, cables for runway lighting, and those antennae that make beep-beep and lure planes to the right runway. But the subsidiaries were just told to lay the cables for these things, and not to care about how to arrange them. So they have several feet thick hodgepodge bundles of cables, prone to overheating, and posing a maintenance nightmare. And several of the cable tunnels are literally under water, because nobody was told to put in some holes for drainage.