AirbusMDCFAN
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Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:31 am

Link/Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/ ... atchcards/

"Ryanair cabin crew have been told they will face disciplinary action if they fail to sell scratchcards, perfume and alcohol on flights, with those under-performing stripped of their fixed rota and handed shifts on a week-by-week basis."
"In a letter to a member of staff contracted to work for the low-cost airline by agency WorkForce, an unnamed flight attendant is told that their average “spend performance” was 48 per cent below budget across 251 flights before detailing their failure to sell a range of goods in the period from April to November, including cosmetics, fragrances, gifts and snacks."


It's not mandatory for passengers to buy these things on FR flights.
Is Ryanair's ancillary revenues taking a big hit due to the lack of sales.
 
B777LRF
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:20 am

Just to make it clear: Ryanair will claim they are not their employees, albeit they are contracted to devote all their working hours to them. That doesn't stop them from issuing these highly offensive mails, via the contracting agency, to their 'non-employees'.

One day that train is going to come to a screeching halt, and I for one will be standing on the sidelines cheering when it does.

They are the bane of civil aviation, a scamming outfit who can only survive for as long as they get away with shafting their employees.
Signature. You just read one.
 
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BartSimpson
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:43 am

AirbusMDCFAN wrote:

It's not mandatory for passengers to buy these things on FR flights.


Not yet.

One more reason not to fly with Ryanair. I don't want to be hard-pressed by inflight safety personnel (that's what a flight attendant's primary job is) to buy stuff I don't need anyway.

Additionally, I am of the very old-fashioned opinion that people perform better (even to the benefit of their employers) if they are not facing disciplinary action every minute of their job life.
 
cpd
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:22 pm

Why would I buy that rubbish anyway?

And furthermore, this kind of management behaviour is a key way of reducing staff performance. And it is always old fashioned, lazy management types who push this kind of rubbish.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:40 pm

Seems to me Ryanair should face EU investigations as to their labor and employment practices as to mandating quotas of in-flight sales by F/A. Their job is to provide safety on flights, not be salesclerks pushing stuff of questionable value.
 
HEATHROWHUNTER
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:56 pm

I have always been against the presence of unions in companies as I think they actually do more harm than good in many instances. However with FR I actually do make the biggest exception to that opinion. O'leary may obtain a fantastic business mind which is measured by the growth FR has seen in recent years and the European presence they now have. However good leaders also know how to balance this with also ensuring a strong morale and motivated work force. Out of principle I will not step foot onto a FR flight regardless of how cheap it is. What is more ludicrous is that regardless of how much ' sales pitch ' you give me once on board I am not going to buy an overpriced cup of coffee or gamble to pass the time by purchasing a scratch card. This is my preference as it would be for so many other people and hence to 'punish' a staff member because they were unfortunate enough to have people like me on the flight who were not wanting any additional FR products is utterly ludicrous and disgusting. The question I have though is why do these cabin crews stay ? The FR pay I believe is no more than the competitors, and once they have experience surely airlines such as BA,EZY,TUI,DY would consider them as huge value in terms of experience and the skills already there to do the job ? Either way I wish this employee well and hope he/she considers working for a company that perhaps treat people with more respect and actually reflects the role of cabin crew for what it is intended which is safety and not sales !!!
 
JustSomeDood
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:24 pm

And MOL wonders why he's hemorrhaging staff...
 
asdf
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:43 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Seems to me Ryanair should face EU investigations as to their labor and employment practices as to mandating quotas of in-flight sales by F/A. Their job is to provide safety on flights, not be salesclerks pushing stuff of questionable value.


what her job "is to" is written down in the contract between her employee and her
we dont know

but it certanly does include some service beside of "provide safety of flight" anyway

the real question is how can there be a gap of 45% between her sales and the average ( not the peak!) thrue rhe complete fleet?

the simplest answer is: she dont offer the chargeable items to the customers
maybe there is another answer, maybe shes the one always in the galley and not serving ... i dont know
you neither, dont you?

if she dont offers ... and its part of her contract ... well .... ask her why ....
any employee would ask
 
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seahawk
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:56 pm

You need to rid yourself of the low performers. Good for FR.
 
Indy
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:57 pm

Serious question... why on earth would anyone work for this company? They don't care about their employees and they don't care about their customers. That should make them the worst of the worst. Would anyone here be upset if the airline got shut down tomorrow for one reason or another?
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767333ER
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:25 pm

seahawk wrote:
You need to rid yourself of the low performers. Good for FR.

Yes this means O’Leary and his bunch need to be gotten rid of as they are low performers that have no clue how to run an airline.
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kaitak
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:10 pm

That's the big danger for FR. They have put a lot of effort into trying to keep their pilots sweet. But the flight attendants could give them the biggest sting of all ... there comes a time for any employee when the next straw is the one that breaks the camel's back. A mass walkout of FR cabin staff could give the airline quite a headache, though I agree that this could best be achieved through a union. FR may say that they don't or won't recognise unions, nor deal with them. Maybe it's time that was put to the test.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:12 pm

It was once said that British Airways ran a fantastic airline, and the only way they could manage their flights more efficiently...
.......... was if they could get rid of all the passengers. :roll:

Michael O'Leary has re-written that book; in his world Ryanair would be an even more fantastic money-making business model,
........if only they could get rid of all their aircraft. :lol:
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
leghorn
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:50 pm

The unions of the competitor airlines will not bother trying to organize the Ryanair cabin crew staff because they turn over too quickly and don't earn enough to pay subs.
 
TC957
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:03 pm

Has anyone actually won anything buying an FR scratchcard or are they all duffs and losing tickets ?
 
devron
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:35 pm

TC957 wrote:
Has anyone actually won anything buying an FR scratchcard or are they all duffs and losing tickets ?


Well european law or some national laws in the stipulates the chances to win need to be made transparent. Ryanair does this in their inflight magazin they also include the number of scratchcard they sell. I had a look at the numbesr once and was baffeled (not positively) but sorry can't remember. So if you really want to know try to have a look in their magazine. I ofcourse could do that and post it here but I refuse looking at a ryanair magazine on my Sunday evening.
 
Bavd
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:50 pm

I am surprised that they haven't picked up on the sales of cigarettes to minors! There is some real money to be made there.
Seriously, why do people fly this airline ? It is an accident waiting to happen....
 
ltbewr
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:51 pm

Many here will ask why will cabin staff will go to work for and keep working at FR. Simple really, there are many millions of unemployed and underemployed young adults in many countries and parts of countries in their EU and non-EU markets who will take any job just to get job experience to hopefully get a decent paying job or make monies for their extended families. I am quite sure for every opening at FR there are dozens of qualified applicants so one can be easily replaced if not meeting FR's demands including hawking stuff.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:23 pm

Indeed, under employment puts you in a poor postion. The more light you can shine on poor working conditions may serve to bring about change slowly. Most people are focused on cheap travel which is why they use the airline in the first place.
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ryanov
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:26 pm

HEATHROWHUNTER wrote:
I have always been against the presence of unions in companies as I think they actually do more harm than good in many instances. However with FR I actually do make the biggest exception to that opinion. O'leary may obtain a fantastic business mind which is measured by the growth FR has seen in recent years and the European presence they now have. However good leaders also know how to balance this with also ensuring a strong morale and motivated work force.

This sort of thing is literally why unions exist. Management has the jobs and the money. This is not a special case. And under capitalism, management has an incentive to squeeze the employees -- they're basically obligated to make the most money they can.

So today you have a good manager. Great. Next week you've got someone who's decided this is the way to run a company. Do you wait till that moment to organize a union? Seems like it would be better to respond more quickly. I know I may hear "so get a new job." Yeah, that's not disruptive to one's family or life in general. RyanAir may be worse than many airlines, but it's not like job hopping will necessarily find an employer that treats people right, and even then, it may not stay that way.

I am aware of unions that have good working relationships with management. No reason that can't be.
 
sk736
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:38 pm

Ancillary sales are part of the cabin crew duties. Their primary role may well be safety but they signed a contact of employment that requires them to be sales people on board and if they don’t perform those duties there is no reason why management can’t deal with those performance issues, just as in any other employer/employee relationship. If the example in the Telegraph article is true, it was pretty dire performance over more than 250 flights so why shouldn’t that be dealt with? Nobody has to work for Ryanair if they don’t like the terms offered.
 
Cunard
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:34 pm

sk736 wrote:
Ancillary sales are part of the cabin crew duties. Their primary role may well be safety but they signed a contact of employment that requires them to be sales people on board and if they don’t perform those duties there is no reason why management can’t deal with those performance issues, just as in any other employer/employee relationship. If the example in the Telegraph article is true, it was pretty dire performance over more than 250 flights so why shouldn’t that be dealt with? Nobody has to work for Ryanair if they don’t like the terms offered.


Absolutely spot on your comments sums it up perfectly.
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JAAlbert
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:12 pm

Ryanair sells scratch cards? What are these, lottery tickets? I've now heard everything! Who would buy such a thing aboard an aircraft?
 
WYLTK
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:37 pm

Read carefully. This letter was sent to /a/ unnamed source (employee) who very well may or may not be at fault.

and I quote directly from the link... "The member of staff". "the" -- as in, singular.
and I quote directly from the link... "It adds that the". "the" -- as in, singular.
and I quote directly from the link... "As the letter makes clear, any individual". "individual" -- as in, singular.

So this seems everyhing to do about a specific employee crying to the press than any systematic issue Ryanair has with its people.

Have you ever known someone to underperform at their job? Have you ever wished someone did something about it? What if this person just sucks at their job?
Last edited by WYLTK on Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:38 pm

The sooner the FAs of this airline unionize, the better.
 
sk736
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:54 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
The sooner the FAs of this airline unionize, the better.

Fortunately, I suspect the majority of them have the sense to keep unions at a very longe distance.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:29 pm

WYLTK wrote:
Read carefully. This letter was sent to /a/ unnamed source (employee) who very well may or may not be at fault.

and I quote directly from the link... "The member of staff". "the" -- as in, singular.
and I quote directly from the link... "It adds that the". "the" -- as in, singular.
and I quote directly from the link... "As the letter makes clear, any individual". "individual" -- as in, singular.

So this seems everyhing to do about a specific employee crying to the press than any systematic issue Ryanair has with its people.

Have you ever known someone to underperform at their job? Have you ever wished someone did something about it? What if this person just sucks at their job?

Ok...since you seem to be teaching us the intricacies of the English language, please educate us: what is the plural of "the" in English?

Answer: The
The car
The cars

Right?

Also, "any individual" could mean several persons, as anybody (obviously meaning more than one person) speaking English would know.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:03 pm

WYLTK wrote:
Read carefully.
So this seems everyhing to do about a specific employee crying to the press than any systematic issue Ryanair has with its people.

By coincidence I also received a letter addressed to me in person the other day. It read as follows;
Dear Mr Johnathan Smith, You have been selected to take part in our special prize draw. Only 587,294 other people have also been given this personal invitation......

The text of the Ryanair letter sounds exactly like a standard letter that has probably been sent to every single FA, with a slight variation made to the specific percentages depending on each case. It's what databases were made for.
Just read this incredibly clumsy piece of English;
Ryanair's clumsy word processor wrote:
"On 100 per cent of the 251 flights in this period you operated you sold no cosmetics"

That sentence only works if the percentage is less than 100%. If a human being wrote that letter it would read "On none of the 251 flights did you sell any cosmetics".
Their standard letter with it's clunky grammar was churned out by the thousand. Or is good English such a rare thing these days that nobody recognises the difference? :roll:

And it's not rocket science to work out why "only" one employee has come forward; I'm betting they all signed non-disclosure agreements and so running to the newspaper with such things could result in instant dismissal.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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kjeld0d
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:30 pm

If you can only afford flights on an airline that abuses its staff, you can't really afford to fly; you are just lying to yourself.
The same goes with holidays to 'tourism factories'. Have some self-respect!
 
CRJ900
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:34 pm

JAAlbert wrote:
Ryanair sells scratch cards? What are these, lottery tickets? I've now heard everything! Who would buy such a thing aboard an aircraft?


Scratch cards are sold by the thousands onboard Thomas Cook aircraft. I flew with them on charter flights a few months ago and passengers were crazy about buying them and several passengers won new cards. Back in the day, Sterling Airlines also sold HEAPS of scratch cards - lots of money in the till.

Passengers will buy everything if you announce it properly on the PA.
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AWACSooner
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:37 pm

Bavd wrote:
Seriously, why do people fly this airline ? It is an accident waiting to happen....


Man...this one takes the cake for hyperbole in this thread.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:02 am

They need to get the pilots peddling scratchcards to Air Traffic Control and other aircraft in the vicinity. They could call them "Mayday Scratchcards". Limited to 3 per pilot. Also, they need to remember to knock on the toilet door and ask the person sitting inside if they want to buy one and poke them under the door just in case.
 
StuckinCMHland
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:04 am

Why not replace the FA's with a couple of vending machines that move up and down the aisle during the flight? If not enough stuff is sold the machines can block the exits off the planes until the sales quota is reached.
 
bigjku
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:09 am

kjeld0d wrote:
If you can only afford flights on an airline that abuses its staff, you can't really afford to fly; you are just lying to yourself.
The same goes with holidays to 'tourism factories'. Have some self-respect!


Stay home poor people. Flying and leisure are not for you. How dare you elect to spend your money on services a company elected to provide with employees that elected to work there.

I am with you. These customers really are monsters.
 
downdata
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:27 am

Yawn. The staff should have known they signed up for a lottery company that runs scheduled air service from time to time.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:49 am

A quick and pertinent question if I may ? Does selling more scratch cards increase the odds of a 'payout' and does said 'payout' balance against the profit and loss forecast ? Basically, has anyone ever won the Ryanair lottery ? ;-)
 
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MillwallSean
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:56 am

It seems that there are a few different things going on here. Some who claim that the role of a flight attendant is safety. Hmm, lets put it this way, the employment agreement disagrees. There is a lot more expected than safety and I have yet to see any European airline that doesn't think service is the number one task of any FA. So lets get back to reality and stop this US centric idea that FA are safety marshalls. They arent, compare it with staff on cruiselines. Safety is important, emergency drills held, but the primary task of crew is not safety, its service and they are there to make the experience nicer.

Ryanair, personally I am skeptical to the legality of these contracts. I guess they are legal in some EU member states but well, this is the type of contracts I see the EU going after. When someone solely work for one employer and the crewing company solely hire for the same employer it is hard to argue that there isn't a permanent employment and that the staffing company in fact is a representative for Ryanair since it lacks independence. I am surprised that not more EU countries amend their employment legislation to cover this loophole.

The way deputy HR lady formulates her letter is bordering on something that can be legally challenged. Its worded as a threat and comes with expectations of punitive actions in regards to scheduling. While the UK and Irish employment legislation is weak, I can for sure state that several other EU countries would not allow this. I know Ryanair, in previous cases, has ensured that the person who challenged their HR practices got a deal before it reached the courts. The risk is to great and the stakes to high for them to have an independent judge decide on it. I would hope that a case one day reaches the courts though, would be interesting to see how that will affect the industry.

Anyway, its important to understand that working for Ryanair is a transitionary job, not a career. Its like being waitress at Costa. You do it for 2-5 years then you move on to something else, its not seen as a lifetime employment.
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ScottKBUF
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:00 am

Sounds like an empty threat to me. If anyone's ever worked in a corporate restaurant here in the US they know exactly what I'm talking about. Think, "Oh, you met your up-sell quota this past week, you are hereby rewarded with having to work three extra shifts because we have to cut hours from everyone who didn't." It's significantly more common than you might think, however it typically doesn't generate quite the media attention.
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StudiodeKadent
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:47 am

CobaltScar wrote:
The sooner the FAs of this airline unionize, the better.


The problem with unions in the airline industry is simple.

When you have 1. high fixed costs of entry and 2. commodity pricing, you need cheap labor costs to be viable. The only way to have a reasonably well paid labor force in a high-fixed-cost environment is to avoid condition 2. This requires monopoly or protectionism (to create a monopoly rent that can cover the higher labor costs), or differentiated products which can attract a premium.

None of this applies to Ryanair. They're in a fiercely competitive marketplace and they explicitly provide commodity travel. Their entire business model requires cheap labor.

This doesn't mean I approve of firing crew that don't sell 'enough' scratch-cards. But I don't see how unionization is compatible with ultra low cost air travel.
 
UAL777UK
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:16 am

Another reason to avoid this crass cheap outfit. Tell me, do they still play that tacky tune when they and on time?
 
dampfnudel
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:41 am

seahawk wrote:
You need to rid yourself of the low performers. Good for FR.

What about performing the job they originally were hired to do and being judged on that? I understand with some jobs, hustling money out of your customers and being continuously evaluated on that ability is to be expected, but do you honestly believe that should be the case here? How low we should we go?
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metalinyoni
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:50 am

UAL777UK wrote:
Another reason to avoid this crass cheap outfit. Tell me, do they still play that tacky tune when they and on time?


I fly Ryanair a lot from Bristol to Dub mainly because Aer Lingus operate (via Stobart Air) an ATR on the route, and I haven't heard the music for a long time even though generally speaking flights arrive on time / early.

The thing I hate about the scratch cards is the timing of the announcement on the flight. It always happens just when you have relaxed and started to doze off. It's super irritating and after about 10 years of almost monthly flying on this route, I don't think I have ever seen anyone buy one. People obviously do, otherwise, FR wouldn't sell them, I just wonder if it is on specific routes where they are popular.
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TC957
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:03 am

Probably as BRS - DUB is just a 40min hop not much time for on-board selling.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:12 am

dampfnudel wrote:
seahawk wrote:
You need to rid yourself of the low performers. Good for FR.

What about performing the job they originally were hired to do and being judged on that? I understand with some jobs, hustling money out of your customers and being continuously evaluated on that ability is to be expected, but do you honestly believe that should be the case here? How low we should we go?


Why not, there is plenty of time on each flight where they would be idle when not trying to sell merchandise and it seems to be part of the job description that includes selling merchandise during the flights.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:34 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
Also, "any individual" could mean several persons, as anybody (obviously meaning more than one person) speaking English would know.


Being pedantic, no. Anybody is singular, everybody is plural.

"Anybody" refers to a hypothetical single person - although context means you can often extend the whole statement to refer to multiple people.

But grammatically, and in meaning, it's singular.

I get what you're trying to say but this article *does* seem to refer to a letter sent to an (singular) employee. I've no doubt though that similar letters could have been sent to other employees.

(Full disclosure - I haven't read the article, I'm going from what I read in this thread.)
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:43 am

kjeld0d wrote:
If you can only afford flights on an airline that abuses its staff, you can't really afford to fly; you are just lying to yourself.
The same goes with holidays to 'tourism factories'. Have some self-respect!


There's a big difference between "can afford" and "choose not to waste money". If the airline provides the service that you want at a far cheaper price than other airlines then have some respect for your wallet!

(I have never used Ryanair, by the way, and I would treat them with caution given what happens when flights get delayed or cancelled - but if they were half the price of other options next time I'm booking around Europe then I would be stupid to ignore them!)
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2188
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:37 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Also, "any individual" could mean several persons, as anybody (obviously meaning more than one person) speaking English would know.


Being pedantic, no. Anybody is singular, everybody is plural.

"Anybody" refers to a hypothetical single person - although context means you can often extend the whole statement to refer to multiple people.

But grammatically, and in meaning, it's singular.

I get what you're trying to say but this article *does* seem to refer to a letter sent to an (singular) employee. I've no doubt though that similar letters could have been sent to other employees.

(Full disclosure - I haven't read the article, I'm going from what I read in this thread.)

Now we are really off topic, but I said nothing different from what you say. Only, in the context I used the word, "anybody" can, and most probably does, refer to several persons. And to be perfectly correct, one of the peculiarities of the English language is that even "everybody" is singular, even though it obviously refers to more than one person. Every body (not bodies). And as a result, the verb following it is conjugated in the singular, not the plural.
"Everybody is present".
Not "everybody are present".

Back on topic...I cannot see the problen with a letter like that. I mean, if it was over 250 flights, and sales are waaay below average, then obviously this employee is doing something wrong. What would happen to, say, a real estate agent if he sold next to nothing, not on one day, but for months on end?
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 1576
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:37 am

Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:44 pm

In the end it's up to customers if they want to fly with Ryanair and it's up to staff if they want to work for them. There are worse places to work and there are worse ways to travel (for example, the bus) so both us passengers and the staff choose whether to take what they're offering based on what other options are available. As as customer, they are definitely not my favourite airline but they are normally the cheapest. Sometimes it's nice to have them on a route just to bring the prices down.
 
User avatar
SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 1859
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:50 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
(Full disclosure - I haven't read the article, I'm going from what I read in this thread.)

Back on topic...I cannot see the problen with a letter like that. I mean, if it was over 250 flights, and sales are waaay below average, then obviously this employee is doing something wrong. What would happen to, say, a real estate agent if he sold next to nothing, not on one day, but for months on end?


Ryanair wrote:
“On 100 per cent of the 251 flights in this period you operated you sold no cosmetics,”
“On 73 per cent of the 251 flights in this period you operated you sold no scratchcards…"
"On 86 per cent of the 251 flights in this period you operated you had revenues of less than €50.”

The text of the Ryanair letter sounds exactly like a standard letter that has probably been sent to every single FA, with a slight variation made to the specific percentages depending on each case. It's what databases were made for.

You make a case that "if...sales are waaay below average", which is ok as far as it goes, except we have nothing to substantiate this.
The letter says that this individual's "average spend performance was 48 per cent below budget across 251 flights"
In this statement, the word average is applied to the 251 flights made by this individual; whilst the word "budget" is applied to some arbitrary measure that they have failed to meet.
What exactly is this "budget" ?
These could be impossible targets that not one single F/A has achieved anywhere on Ryanair. Or it could be a statistical average that half of all F/As meet, and half fail.

Ryanair are deliciously vague here
, leaving each individual who receives this letter to wonder if they are good, bad, or just hopeless.

Unfortunately rather too many contributors to this thread have automatically assumed that this employee is below average and/or failing.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
JAAlbert
Posts: 1972
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:43 pm

Re: Ryanair cabin crew told to sell more scratchcards or face disciplinary action

Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:10 pm

CRJ900 wrote:
JAAlbert wrote:
Ryanair sells scratch cards? What are these, lottery tickets? I've now heard everything! Who would buy such a thing aboard an aircraft?


Scratch cards are sold by the thousands onboard Thomas Cook aircraft. I flew with them on charter flights a few months ago and passengers were crazy about buying them and several passengers won new cards. Back in the day, Sterling Airlines also sold HEAPS of scratch cards - lots of money in the till.

Passengers will buy everything if you announce it properly on the PA.


Unbelievable!

I guess that flight attendant better get busy and hawk those scratch cards then!

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