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pabloeing
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British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:17 pm

In Seattle Times....this three bigs airlines are in talks with Boeing.
¿BA 777X?
¿DL 737?
¿JAL 787?

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... h-new-jet/
Last edited by atcsundevil on Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed all caps and excessive punctuation from title
 
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hOMSaR
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Re: BRITISH AIRWAYS....DELTA ..AND JAPAN AIRLINES in talks with Boeing.

Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:27 pm

Airlines and manufacturers are always "in talks." The only thing this article says is that those three airlines have key sales campaigns coming up, and Boeing is going to fight for them (as would be expected of any large airline order).

That said, it's good to see the new guy doing well, years after booby-trapping his suburban Chicago home to thwart some local burglars.
I was raised by a cup of coffee.
 
jfk777
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Re: BRITISH AIRWAYS....DELTA ..AND JAPAN AIRLINES in talks with Boeing.

Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:41 pm

Lets hope Willie Walsh finally orders some 777X for BA because BA still has an order for A350-1000 starting delivery soon. The BA orders for Boeing have not been the same since the Lord King era. Lord King, Sir Colin Marshall and Roger Ayling were the BA CEO's who ordered all the 744 and 777-200ER fleet at BA. Those planes are getting replaced by 787, A350 and yet to be determined. Boeing needs a 777-9 order and Heathrow is a slot contrained airport perfect for a big airplane. My wish is for Teminal 5 to be full of 777-9 in 2022 plus for BA and IAG to have a Business Class similar to Cathay's.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: BRITISH AIRWAYS....DELTA ..AND JAPAN AIRLINES in talks with Boeing.

Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:43 pm

I could see some more 787s for BA, 777X also makes sense for them too.
 
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Stitch
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Re: BRITISH AIRWAYS....DELTA ..AND JAPAN AIRLINES in talks with Boeing.

Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:58 pm

Still not sure what the 777-9 offers BA unless they are looking for a high-density 747-400 replacement. If they dropped FIRST and reduced Club World to 40-48 with 24-32 World Traveller Plus they could probably get 250 World Traveller seats into it at 10-abreast.
 
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FlyRow
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Re: BRITISH AIRWAYS....DELTA ..AND JAPAN AIRLINES in talks with Boeing.

Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:05 pm

Why the Caps? It's not that special. Bet you can replace Boeing by Airbus and it would still be true, and the other way round.
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fcogafa
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:28 pm

I don't see it say that they are in talks at the moment, the article says:
===============
Key airplane-sales campaigns lie ahead at Delta, British Airways and Japan Airlines. All will be keenly fought and will help define the success of McAllister’s tenure at the top
 
wr911
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:33 pm

Not a bad idea of getting rid of First as BA does not seem to want to put in the effort for a real first class expierence. I have been upgraded from Club World to First and could not tell any difference between hard and soft product on that long haul.
 
Arion640
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Re: BRITISH AIRWAYS....DELTA ..AND JAPAN AIRLINES in talks with Boeing.

Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:39 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Lets hope Willie Walsh finally orders some 777X for BA because BA still has an order for A350-1000 starting delivery soon. The BA orders for Boeing have not been the same since the Lord King era. Lord King, Sir Colin Marshall and Roger Ayling were the BA CEO's who ordered all the 744 and 777-200ER fleet at BA. Those planes are getting replaced by 787, A350 and yet to be determined. Boeing needs a 777-9 order and Heathrow is a slot contrained airport perfect for a big airplane. My wish is for Teminal 5 to be full of 777-9 in 2022 plus for BA and IAG to have a Business Class similar to Cathay's.


Airbus just didn't do what It does now when the big boeing orders came. No A350, no A380. Airbus had the A330 and A340 but at the time they was at the bottom end of the large/long haul market.

I'm not sure BA have the use for the 777X at this stage, with the possibility of cheap A380's coming in the next 2 years. They have the relatively new 77W's and 77E's that will see 30 year service. More dreamliners potentially but not sure they have much space for these with A350's and the remaining dreamliner order. My personal opinion is that the 77E's will eventually be replaced by A359's.

The new Club world will be an enhanced version of what it is now. BA do well to fill even the 86J 747's like I experienced the other day. They won't be replace it, just upgrade it, it's too profitable for them.
 
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Re: BRITISH AIRWAYS....DELTA ..AND JAPAN AIRLINES in talks with Boeing.

Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:12 pm

hOMSaR wrote:
The only thing this article says is that those three airlines have key sales campaigns coming up, and Boeing is going to fight for them (as would be expected of any large airline order).

Agreed. There is nothing really substantive in the article about potential RFPs/orders.
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airzona11
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:25 pm

wr911 wrote:
Not a bad idea of getting rid of First as BA does not seem to want to put in the effort for a real first class expierence. I have been upgraded from Club World to First and could not tell any difference between hard and soft product on that long haul.


BA-They have home-field advantage flying out of the largest premium air market in the world. They might shrink the cabins, but they do sell a lot of F/J every day. They have such a large O/D base, I would argue that their F/J not being over the top is not that big of a disadvantage.

I think more 787s, I also would not be surprised to see BA as a MoM airline.

DL - 737s/MoMs
 
bunumuring
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:29 pm

Hey guys,
Isn't JAL looking at a possible MAX versus Neo order sometime soon to begin replacing the 737-800s? I vaguely remember reading earlier this year somewhere that JAL will begin looking at this requirement next year.
BA was an early supporter of a potential stretched 777 but I feel lost interest when the eventual 777X was closely specified to the ME3's requirements - something to do with 'hot and high' engine capacity I seem to recall? And I think Lufthansa had similar concerns but still went ahead and ordered it anyway.
Delta in talks with Boeing? End of line 777-300ERs? Despite what many here say, I think Delta could use some. Here in Australia, Delta could replace the -200LR with the -300ER into Sydney easily, I reckon, and use the -200LR to open up a Seattle-Sydney route (please please please!) However, Delta is more likely to be looking at MAX versus Neo at this stage....
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Newbiepilot
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:37 pm

pabloeing wrote:
In Seattle Times....this three bigs airlines are in talks with Boeing.
¿BA 777X?
¿DL 737?
¿JAL 787?

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... h-new-jet/


No surprises with those three airlines. BA and DL have aging fleets and logically may make some significant orders in the near future. JAL also has had some rumors floating around about what options they will pick up (A350 vs 787)
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:38 pm

Any chance DL might be in talks for replacing their 767s?
 
george77300
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Re: BRITISH AIRWAYS....DELTA ..AND JAPAN AIRLINES in talks with Boeing.

Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:44 pm

Stitch wrote:
Still not sure what the 777-9 offers BA unless they are looking for a high-density 747-400 replacement. If they dropped FIRST and reduced Club World to 40-48 with 24-32 World Traveller Plus they could probably get 250 World Traveller seats into it at 10-abreast.


BA very much need a B744 capacity replacement. Especially for the High - J with 14 First and 86 Business seats. They need B748/B77X/more A380 to replace.
 
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Dano1977
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Re: BRITISH AIRWAYS....DELTA ..AND JAPAN AIRLINES in talks with Boeing.

Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:51 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Lets hope Willie Walsh finally orders some 777X for BA because BA still has an order for A350-1000 starting delivery soon. The BA orders for Boeing have not been the same since the Lord King era. Lord King, Sir Colin Marshall and Roger Ayling were the BA CEO's who ordered all the 744 and 777-200ER fleet at BA. Those planes are getting replaced by 787, A350 and yet to be determined. Boeing needs a 777-9 order and Heathrow is a slot contrained airport perfect for a big airplane. My wish is for Teminal 5 to be full of 777-9 in 2022 plus for BA and IAG to have a Business Class similar to Cathay's.


Bob Ayling
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rbavfan
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Re: BRITISH AIRWAYS....DELTA ..AND JAPAN AIRLINES in talks with Boeing.

Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:55 pm

hOMSaR wrote:
Airlines and manufacturers are always "in talks." The only thing this article says is that those three airlines have key sales campaigns coming up, and Boeing is going to fight for them (as would be expected of any large airline order).

That said, it's good to see the new guy doing well, years after booby-trapping his suburban Chicago home to thwart some local burglars.


The last line? What new guy and What Chicago home?
 
TC957
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:13 pm

I think BA could be tempted by a few more end-of-production 77W's on the cheap rather than getting 779's.
The incoming A350-1000's could be kitted out with high-J configuration.
 
einkleinerknabe
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Re: BRITISH AIRWAYS....DELTA ..AND JAPAN AIRLINES in talks with Boeing.

Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:33 pm

rbavfan wrote:
hOMSaR wrote:
Airlines and manufacturers are always "in talks." The only thing this article says is that those three airlines have key sales campaigns coming up, and Boeing is going to fight for them (as would be expected of any large airline order).

That said, it's good to see the new guy doing well, years after booby-trapping his suburban Chicago home to thwart some local burglars.


The last line? What new guy and What Chicago home?


The CEO of Boeing Commercial Airplanes featured in the linked article: Kevin McAllister
The protagonist of the classic Christmas comedy Home Alone: Kevin McCallister
 
Arion640
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:51 pm

TC957 wrote:
I think BA could be tempted by a few more end-of-production 77W's on the cheap rather than getting 779's.
The incoming A350-1000's could be kitted out with high-J configuration.


Yes that would probably be the best option for them, this is the era of cheap management, but they will be able to get something cheap but new. I just don't see where the 77X can fit in BA at this stage. They are content with the A380, the 77W's are new, like I stated above. Plenty of dreamliners coming along with a whole fleet of 10's and the remaining 8/9's. And the A350, What use would they have for it? Remember this is slot constrained LHR.
 
Armodeen
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Re: BRITISH AIRWAYS....DELTA ..AND JAPAN AIRLINES in talks with Boeing.

Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:58 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Lets hope Willie Walsh finally orders some 777X for BA because BA still has an order for A350-1000 starting delivery soon. The BA orders for Boeing have not been the same since the Lord King era. Lord King, Sir Colin Marshall and Roger Ayling were the BA CEO's who ordered all the 744 and 777-200ER fleet at BA. Those planes are getting replaced by 787, A350 and yet to be determined. Boeing needs a 777-9 order and Heathrow is a slot contrained airport perfect for a big airplane. My wish is for Teminal 5 to be full of 777-9 in 2022 plus for BA and IAG to have a Business Class similar to Cathay's.


Why do they need the 777X though? With 787-10, A350-1000 and A380s they have a flexible fleet that can replace all of the 744s.
 
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Re: BRITISH AIRWAYS....DELTA ..AND JAPAN AIRLINES in talks with Boeing.

Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:14 pm

george77300 wrote:
Stitch wrote:
Still not sure what the 777-9 offers BA unless they are looking for a high-density 747-400 replacement. If they dropped FIRST and reduced Club World to 40-48 with 24-32 World Traveller Plus they could probably get 250 World Traveller seats into it at 10-abreast.


BA very much need a B744 capacity replacement. Especially for the High - J with 14 First and 86 Business seats. They need B748/B77X/more A380 to replace.

Considering they are retiring their 747's by 2024, they aren't exactly in any rush to go wild in the shopping aisles right now.
 
Breathe
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:16 pm

wr911 wrote:
Not a bad idea of getting rid of First as BA does not seem to want to put in the effort for a real first class expierence. I have been upgraded from Club World to First and could not tell any difference between hard and soft product on that long haul.

Did you not miss gazing into the eyes of your seat mate in CW compared to First?
 
Schmave
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Re: BRITISH AIRWAYS....DELTA ..AND JAPAN AIRLINES in talks with Boeing.

Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:20 pm

hOMSaR wrote:
That said, it's good to see the new guy doing well, years after booby-trapping his suburban Chicago home to thwart some local burglars.


lol, I saw that guy's name and did a double take. He was able to devise some pretty ingenious contraptions when he was 8 years old, so he must be a pretty good engineer by now. :lol:
 
ADrum23
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:03 am

I wonder if Delta will finally order some Dreamliners? They will need to replace their 767's soon, and their current order of A330/350s isn't enough to replace them all. I could see them ordering 20-30 789s.
 
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:05 am

I don't think Boeing is going to move forward with MOM/797 unless is has some *very firm* interest from a whole lot of people. Once Boeing feels it has some sort of critical mass, it will launch MOM and then the bar will be set for it to meet...or exceed...or fail.
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speedbird52
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:26 am

With the 747 retirement planned in the next 8 years, I think BA quite frankly need the 779. Nothing else can really replace the 86j configuration. BA also would do well with the 797. Nothing really fills the 767s shoes in Europe, and the 797 could possibly replace the few TATL 757s BA operated.
 
speedbird52
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Re: BRITISH AIRWAYS....DELTA ..AND JAPAN AIRLINES in talks with Boeing.

Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:27 am

Breathe wrote:
george77300 wrote:
Stitch wrote:
Still not sure what the 777-9 offers BA unless they are looking for a high-density 747-400 replacement. If they dropped FIRST and reduced Club World to 40-48 with 24-32 World Traveller Plus they could probably get 250 World Traveller seats into it at 10-abreast.


BA very much need a B744 capacity replacement. Especially for the High - J with 14 First and 86 Business seats. They need B748/B77X/more A380 to replace.

Considering they are retiring their 747's by 2024, they aren't exactly in any rush to go wild in the shopping aisles right now.

As much of a wetdream BA 748s are for me, I don't see it happening.
 
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Btblue
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:51 am

BA have their 747 retirement plans covered - with the A350 and A380. That said if boeing offer them a fabulous deal on the 748 what's to say they wouldn't take it? Maybe a lease for x years (and then buy back for freighter conversion resale). Anyway we can all dream... I reckon this is more to do with the 797 but I will SO miss the upperdeck of the 747 - the upperdeck of the A380 for me just doesn't match the 747.
 
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Channex757
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:03 am

It really does mean nothing. Would it surprise any of you that Airbus has a rolling sales campaign with Southwest, and WN are engaged with it?

Aircraft are not Chevys. They cost many millions and deals are frequently worth billions. All alrlines need to do the due diligence thing and evaluate what's out there to stop themselves being shafted come buying time. Remember too Ryanair, who were on the verge of signing with Airbus but went instead with a huge, killer offer from Boeing? They had open channels and campaigns from both OEMs.

The carriers need to be out there, talking to manufacturers (Ryanair again and COMAC) even if they don't buy. Because they may well buy in the future and need that contact to be ongoing even if they are not a customer today.
 
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Stitch
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:27 am

george77300 wrote:
BA very much need a B744 capacity replacement. Especially for the High - J with 14 First and 86 Business seats. They need B748/B77X/more A380 to replace.


BA might be able to get another two rows of Club World in there so that would push it to 72, which is probably close enough to the High-J model. The other option is additional A380s.
 
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Re: BRITISH AIRWAYS....DELTA ..AND JAPAN AIRLINES in talks with Boeing.

Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:42 am

Stitch wrote:
Still not sure what the 777-9 offers BA unless they are looking for a high-density 747-400 replacement. If they dropped FIRST and reduced Club World to 40-48 with 24-32 World Traveller Plus they could probably get 250 World Traveller seats into it at 10-abreast.


The 777-9 offer BA a low density 744 replacement since most BA 744 have 14 FIRST and 70 or 86 Club World seats. Why couldn't a 777-9 have 8 FIRST SUITES AND 60 to 70 Club World seats ? Why would BA want only 40 J class seats, that is a Gatwick sized J class cabin for Orlando and the Caribbean routes. The 777-9 is the closest plane 744 sized, A380 are great but in limited numbers and BA may get a few more. End of the line 77W could be a solution but Airbus planes are either too big or too small to replace the 744 at BA. The 744 replacement solution is in Seattle not Toulouse.
 
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Slash787
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:48 am

B777X is the answer
 
Andy33
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Re: BRITISH AIRWAYS....DELTA ..AND JAPAN AIRLINES in talks with Boeing.

Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:52 am

jfk777 wrote:
Stitch wrote:
Still not sure what the 777-9 offers BA unless they are looking for a high-density 747-400 replacement. If they dropped FIRST and reduced Club World to 40-48 with 24-32 World Traveller Plus they could probably get 250 World Traveller seats into it at 10-abreast.


The 777-9 offer BA a low density 744 replacement since most BA 744 have 14 FIRST and 70 or 86 Club World seats. Why couldn't a 777-9 have 8 FIRST SUITES AND 60 to 70 Club World seats ? Why would BA want only 40 J class seats, that is a Gatwick sized J class cabin for Orlando and the Caribbean routes. The 777-9 is the closest plane 744 sized, A380 are great but in limited numbers and BA may get a few more. End of the line 77W could be a solution but Airbus planes are either too big or too small to replace the 744 at BA. The 744 replacement solution is in Seattle not Toulouse.


Lets add some facts: BA have 18 744s with 52J seats, and 18 with 86J seats. No 70J at all.
Every year they (or rather parent IAG) hold an event for investors and analysts, and helpfully publish the slides and transcripts,
http://www.iairgroup.com/phoenix.zhtml? ... sentations
This years event was earlier this month and guess what, there's a fleet plan at slide 25.
By 2022 there will be just 12 744s left, no change to the total number of 777s (though there is an acknowledged error in the 777 figures where the 5 mid-haul A321s have been lumped in with the 777s throughout). So 24 x 744s will most certainly not be replaced by anything other than the A350-1000 and 787-10 that have been on order for several years to do just that.
So that leaves 12 744s which will leave the fleet by February 2024. Will they order 779s to do this? Well they might, but time is rapidly running out to secure 12 deliveries during 2023. On the other hand there are large numbers of options for A350s and some options for 787s which most certainly could be converted into orders and delivered in that timescale. There are even options for A380s, though second hand ones look more likely,
 
RalXWB
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:40 am

A3510 is the answer.
 
Jomar777
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:47 am

Should these be really happening, I am not sure if this relates to new possible orders for existing products (Could be wrong, though...). I think it has mainly to be related to the new MOM/797 program.
Boeing is sure to gather views from airlines towards getting the best solution to, potentially, fit somewhere between the 737-10 and 787-8 (or 787-9 if they definitely kill the small 787). It is a very narrow niche space and we do not even know if the MOM might not involve simply a revamp of the big 737 and/or small 787.
As for future deals involving present products, we could cook up anything really (which would be far fetched, likely, or really certain - in no particular order/likelihood):

1) Could JAL be enticed to add the 787-10 or spearhead a B777X purchase to aid the order book on this project and to prop up their LH and ULH route plans? Or, even to have those flying in high density within the Japanese isles?
2) Could Boeing be trying to entice BA to order some B777-9s with a promise to have them on RR engines to sway them away from a 2nd hand A380 search? BA will probably will not buy any GE engine aircrafts. Their B77Ws only came up as a incentive for them not to cancel their delayed B787 orders and they are not very happy with them. Or (even more dreamlike..) could BA be enticed to some (very cheap...) B748s to keep the big bird going?
3) Could Delta be looking for alternatives towards ditching their C-Series in exchange to a very good priced B737-7s, for example, so that they avoid the likely extra costs on that order? Airbus promised to ramp up production in US but nothing has come out of the paper so who knows when this will happen and, henceforth, when the first C-Series will come out of it...

*** Before shooting the messenger, pleased note that the 3 above are simply wide speculation *** My bet is that , if these talks really happened/will happen, that they will very likely relate to the new MOM/797 plans.
 
Waterbomber
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:48 am

I think that everybody is overlooking an aircraft type. The B787 and A350 are virtually undeliverable for the next 8 years.

I expect to see BA replace a whole bunch of B772's with A339neo. The aircraft also suits DL and I can see a follow up order there, they just need more.
I dont see JL going for the A330neo, they ll just pit A against B and see who can make delivery slots appear before 2025 on either B787 or A350's. B777X very unlikely imo.

The A339neo is going to be a rock star for the next few years.
 
Arion640
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:56 am

speedbird52 wrote:
With the 747 retirement planned in the next 8 years, I think BA quite frankly need the 779. Nothing else can really replace the 86j configuration. BA also would do well with the 797. Nothing really fills the 767s shoes in Europe, and the 797 could possibly replace the few TATL 757s BA operated.


The 757 hasn't been in service since 2010 with BA, 7 years ago. It was many years before that they stopped operating 757 TATL, that idea has long gone.
 
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scbriml
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:00 am

One is tempted to ask - if the 779 were as perfect a plane for BA that so many here seem to believe, why haven't they ordered it? :scratchchin:
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Andy33
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:22 am

Waterbomber wrote:
I think that everybody is overlooking an aircraft type. The B787 and A350 are virtually undeliverable for the next 8 years.

I expect to see BA replace a whole bunch of B772's with A339neo..


I don't, at least not in the next 10 years. The reason is that IAG have announced that their 772-ERs have a 30 year life. That means they don't require to replace the first until 2027, and the last until 2039. There are the three surviving 772 non-ERs which appear to be excluded from this plan, but they're hardly likely to introduce a completely new aircraft type just to replace 3 planes. New ,or more likely second-hand, 77W seems probable there.
And if they want 787s or A350s, they have outstanding options, lots of options in the case of the A350s, which means they don;t have to wait your 8 years for totally new orders.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:37 am

scbriml wrote:
if the 779 were as perfect a plane for BA that so many here seem to believe, why haven't they ordered it? :scratchchin:

Any number of reasons, not the least of which being that they might want to see its real world performance data before deciding. Or that they're wary of being an early customer for a variant, especially considering their past with the doing so on the 777.

Plenty of other perfectly rational reasons why they haven't ordered this far out, if indeed they found the variant preferable.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Andy33
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:53 am

LAX772LR wrote:
scbriml wrote:
if the 779 were as perfect a plane for BA that so many here seem to believe, why haven't they ordered it? :scratchchin:

Any number of reasons, not the least of which being that they might want to see its real world performance data before deciding. Or that they're wary of being an early customer for a variant, especially considering their past with the doing so on the 777.

Plenty of other perfectly rational reasons why they haven't ordered this far out, if indeed they found the variant preferable.


Yes, these are very valid reasons for them not placing an order yet. They're also very valid reasons for them not placing an order at all, since the 744 replacement orders have to have all been delivered by the end of 2023 to meet their target of no 744s at all by February 2024.
Now at some point there will need to be another surge in widebody orders once the 772-ERs start falling due for replacement from 2027 onwards, but 779s aren't really the first thing an airline would think of to replace 772s.
 
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OA940
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:20 am

I'd guess DL 737 MAX (with a 0.00000001% chance of some 778's), BA with the 777X and maybe some 787 top-ups and JAL with the 737 MAX and 777X.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
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seahawk
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:32 am

All for the MoM. Imho all 3 are 767 operators and could use a replacement.
 
Andy33
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:59 am

seahawk wrote:
All for the MoM. Imho all 3 are 767 operators and could use a replacement.


But BA needs their 767 replacements in 2018, not some time in the mid 2020s. That's why they've already ordered A321neos specifically to replace the remaining 7 763s they have in their mainline fleet, which are all in domestic/European configuration. Delivery starts in a few months time, and all the 763s will be gone by December 2018.
That's not to say they won't look at a MoM/797 if and when it is launched, of course they'll consider it, just not as a 767 replacement as it is far too late for that.
 
gunnerman
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:18 pm

wr911 wrote:
Not a bad idea of getting rid of First as BA does not seem to want to put in the effort for a real first class expierence. I have been upgraded from Club World to First and could not tell any difference between hard and soft product on that long haul.

There is zero chance of BA dumping First as BA can sell those seats. Without First, competitors such as ME3, QF and some Asian carriers would take business away from BA.
 
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frigatebird
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Re: BRITISH AIRWAYS....DELTA ..AND JAPAN AIRLINES in talks with Boeing.

Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:40 pm

JAL are looking to expand their widebody fleet a bit more, and are contemplating exercising A350 options and/or adding 787s. DL have issued an RFP for narrowbodies, 737MAX or A32Xneo. So these are obvious.

I'm puzzled what campaign Boeing is in with BA. BA have the A32Xneo on order to gradually replace the ceo's. An RFP for 777 replacement is years away. They will only replace 3 non-ER 772s with 77W's (I guess some which come off lease from EK or JJ, but I do not know for sure).

Andy33 wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Stitch wrote:
Still not sure what the 777-9 offers BA unless they are looking for a high-density 747-400 replacement. If they dropped FIRST and reduced Club World to 40-48 with 24-32 World Traveller Plus they could probably get 250 World Traveller seats into it at 10-abreast.


The 777-9 offer BA a low density 744 replacement since most BA 744 have 14 FIRST and 70 or 86 Club World seats. Why couldn't a 777-9 have 8 FIRST SUITES AND 60 to 70 Club World seats ? Why would BA want only 40 J class seats, that is a Gatwick sized J class cabin for Orlando and the Caribbean routes. The 777-9 is the closest plane 744 sized, A380 are great but in limited numbers and BA may get a few more. End of the line 77W could be a solution but Airbus planes are either too big or too small to replace the 744 at BA. The 744 replacement solution is in Seattle not Toulouse.


Lets add some facts: BA have 18 744s with 52J seats, and 18 with 86J seats. No 70J at all.
Every year they (or rather parent IAG) hold an event for investors and analysts, and helpfully publish the slides and transcripts,
http://www.iairgroup.com/phoenix.zhtml? ... sentations
This years event was earlier this month and guess what, there's a fleet plan at slide 25.
By 2022 there will be just 12 744s left, no change to the total number of 777s (though there is an acknowledged error in the 777 figures where the 5 mid-haul A321s have been lumped in with the 777s throughout). So 24 x 744s will most certainly not be replaced by anything other than the A350-1000 and 787-10 that have been on order for several years to do just that.
So that leaves 12 744s which will leave the fleet by February 2024. Will they order 779s to do this? Well they might, but time is rapidly running out to secure 12 deliveries during 2023. On the other hand there are large numbers of options for A350s and some options for 787s which most certainly could be converted into orders and delivered in that timescale. There are even options for A380s, though second hand ones look more likely,


Thank you for the factual information and very valid arguments. Just interested in the 12 744s which need to be replaced 2023-2024. I was earlier also convinced a combination of A35K/78X would do the trick. 777X seemed out of the question, main argument was BA probably didn't want another widebody aircraft type next to their 787/A350/A380 fleet. But with the current 777s staying for so long with BA still, I'm not totally convinced this argument is valid, and I also wonder if the A35K really can replace the high-J 744. First class plus 86J seats in an A35K, this doesn't leave much room for a decent number of W and Y. Of course, Y is not the seat an airline makes too much money on, but still I believe a larger aircraft would be better. It's for a reason BA still keeps the high J 744s, I suppose they can fill them without much problem. An A380 or an 777-9 would be better suited IMO, and I also believe Boeing does have enough delivery slots in 2023, and even before that (LH apparently wants to spread their 777X deliveries further, and I question EY's orders).
146,318/19/20/21, AB6,332,333,343,345,346,359,388, 722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9, 742,74E,744,752,762,763, 772,77E,773,77W,788 AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E75/90,F50/70
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:31 pm

Waterbomber wrote:
I think that everybody is overlooking an aircraft type. The B787 and A350 are virtually undeliverable for the next 8 years.

I expect to see BA replace a whole bunch of B772's with A339neo. The aircraft also suits DL and I can see a follow up order there, they just need more.
I dont see JL going for the A330neo, they ll just pit A against B and see who can make delivery slots appear before 2025 on either B787 or A350's. B777X very unlikely imo.

The A339neo is going to be a rock star for the next few years.


Not happening.
 
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Jayafe
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:54 pm

Slash787 wrote:
B777X is the answer


To a question. But not to this one.
 
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Slash787
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Re: British Airways, Delta, Japan Airlines in talks with Boeing

Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:32 pm

Jayafe wrote:
Slash787 wrote:
B777X is the answer


To a question. But not to this one.


Then what is the answer to this one?

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