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ADrum23
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When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:51 am

It seems odd that Norwegian is not yet at DFW and IAH despite being the fourth and fifth biggest markets respectively. Norwegian is in (or will be in shortly) most of the major cities in the US, including New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Boston, Miami, Denver, San Francisco (via Oakland), Seattle and even Austin. Yet, no presence in either Dallas or Houston.

Will we see Norwegian at these airports soon, assuming they (Norwegian) keep expanding? If so, which one will get it first? Personally, I believe DFW will get Norwegian before IAH.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:01 am

Well they are adding LGW-AUS and AUS-LGW next spring.
 
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SFOA380
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:33 am

DY is a tourist airline. Dallas and Houston are not big in-bound foreign tourist markets. They are also not areas with large propensity for foreign travel compared to other areas so a double-negative for an airline like Norwegian. Wow and Icelandic also fall into this category so it’ll be interesting to see what happens there. Also better to judge size by CSA rather than MSA because it better speaks to the catchment area. Dallas and Houston are really 7th and 9th rather than 4th and 5th.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combine ... ical_Areas

I’m sure if DY is around for the long-haul DFW and IAH will be end-up on their radar, just not a priority right now.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:15 am

Atlanta is the largest airport in the USA, still Norwegian doesn't fly there. Why not? Because the city of Atlanta doesn't draw many tourists. Same goes for Houston and Dallas. They're big cities, but not very exciting.
 
iahcsr
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:30 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Atlanta is the largest airport in the USA, still Norwegian doesn't fly there. Why not? Because the city of Atlanta doesn't draw many tourists. Same goes for Houston and Dallas. They're big cities, but not very exciting.

Also bet on AA, DL, and UA doing everything in their power to keep Norwegian out of their mega hubs.
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PA12
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:08 pm

Miami? You mean Ft. Lauderdale....
 
QueenoftheSkies
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:06 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
Well they are adding LGW-AUS and AUS-LGW next spring.


That’s great but irrelevant given it’s neither DFW or IAH. Lol
 
flight152
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:36 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
Well they are adding LGW-AUS and AUS-LGW next spring.

Really? You need to mention both segments as if it’s something noteworthy they are flying both directions of the city pairing?
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:50 pm

flight152 wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
Well they are adding LGW-AUS and AUS-LGW next spring.

Really? You need to mention both segments as if it’s something noteworthy they are flying both directions of the city pairing?


Just being thorough.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:53 pm

QueenoftheSkies wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
Well they are adding LGW-AUS and AUS-LGW next spring.


That’s great but irrelevant given it’s neither DFW or IAH. Lol


And why would an airline that caters mostly to vacationers want to serve those two airports?
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Honestly, DY might have a better shot at profitability flying SAT-LGW a couple of times a week. SAT has a great amount of tourist value which is the market they cater to. IAH and DFW to the UK are packing with higher yielding business traffic and that isnt the crowd that DY attracts.

I do think IAH will eventually get WOW or Icelandair, but DY is better off doing SAT IMO.
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QueenoftheSkies
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:09 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
QueenoftheSkies wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
Well they are adding LGW-AUS and AUS-LGW next spring.


That’s great but irrelevant given it’s neither DFW or IAH. Lol


And why would an airline that caters mostly to vacationers want to serve those two airports?


Because Austin is a predominant touristy destination.....hence why an airline catering to vacationers going there. Not the case with DFW and IAH.
 
DariusBieber
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:25 pm

SAT attracts way more tourists than AUS though
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ro1960
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:41 pm

DariusBieber wrote:
SAT attracts way more tourists than AUS though


How many TATL flights do each of them get at the moment? Which airlines ?
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TWA772LR
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:52 pm

How much traffic/money does Norwegian get from the US point of sale? I'd imagine they cater much more to the European traveler than the American traveler.
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PatrickZ80
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:03 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
How much traffic/money does Norwegian get from the US point of sale? I'd imagine they cater much more to the European traveler than the American traveler.


Not much because they don't have a feeder at the American end of the line. All they got is local demand from around their served airports and some self-transfers, but that's it. In Europe they got an extensive short-haul feeder network.
 
texdravid
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:15 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Atlanta is the largest airport in the USA, still Norwegian doesn't fly there. Why not? Because the city of Atlanta doesn't draw many tourists. Same goes for Houston and Dallas. They're big cities, but not very exciting.


This.

DFW and IAH are NOT on the radar of most Europeans who are tourists. DFW denizens fail to see that. They think their city is some international hotbed. It’s simply an nice place to live and work and do business.....
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Fastphilly
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:28 pm

texdravid wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
Atlanta is the largest airport in the USA, still Norwegian doesn't fly there. Why not? Because the city of Atlanta doesn't draw many tourists. Same goes for Houston and Dallas. They're big cities, but not very exciting.


This.

DFW and IAH are NOT on the radar of most Europeans who are tourists. DFW denizens fail to see that. They think their city is some international hotbed. It’s simply an nice place to live and work and do business.....


I've never got the impression that IAH and DFW fans believe their airports should have dozens of foreign carriers because of a healthy/large tourism draw. Most of them understand their Texas cities aren't the center of the Universe. Though they have been steadily increasing their international portfolio over the years quite nicely (especially IAH)
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:26 pm

texdravid wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
Atlanta is the largest airport in the USA, still Norwegian doesn't fly there. Why not? Because the city of Atlanta doesn't draw many tourists. Same goes for Houston and Dallas. They're big cities, but not very exciting.


This.

DFW and IAH are NOT on the radar of most Europeans who are tourists. DFW denizens fail to see that. They think their city is some international hotbed. It’s simply an nice place to live and work and do business.....


Everything you’ve said is contrary to my experiences. I used to live in Dallas, had many friends from Europe and other far flung places. Most citizens realize Dallas isn’t NYC or a major international hotbed, and they’re fine with that. If anything, they talk about the rivalry between Dallas and Houston the most. It’s really a non-issue, which challenges your belief that all Dallas and Houston people think their respective city is world class.

That being said, Dallas and Houston are emerging world cities no doubt.

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LAXdude1023
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:15 pm

texdravid wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
Atlanta is the largest airport in the USA, still Norwegian doesn't fly there. Why not? Because the city of Atlanta doesn't draw many tourists. Same goes for Houston and Dallas. They're big cities, but not very exciting.


This.

DFW and IAH are NOT on the radar of most Europeans who are tourists. DFW denizens fail to see that. They think their city is some international hotbed. It’s simply an nice place to live and work and do business.....


Yeah....no. The attitude of people in both Dallas and Houston is not that they think their cities are hotbeds of international tourism. They do get a lot of international visitors for business. The more common attitude is that they think that, if you have a reason to be in either city, you can have a great time. That is a true statement.
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dfwjim1
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:19 pm

texdravid wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
Atlanta is the largest airport in the USA, still Norwegian doesn't fly there. Why not? Because the city of Atlanta doesn't draw many tourists. Same goes for Houston and Dallas. They're big cities, but not very exciting.


This.

DFW and IAH are NOT on the radar of most Europeans who are tourists. DFW denizens fail to see that. They think their city is some international hotbed. It’s simply an nice place to live and work and do business.....


I lived in the DFW area for 13 years and I have to agree with you that Dallas/Fort Worth is simply not a tourist destination both for those who live in the United States and those who reside outside the U.S. A nice to place to live for sure but I have yet to meet one person whose dream vacation was a trip to the Dallas/Fort Worth metro area.
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:28 pm

ro1960 wrote:
DariusBieber wrote:
SAT attracts way more tourists than AUS though


How many TATL flights do each of them get at the moment? Which airlines ?


From an Austinite’s perspective, we never really thought of Austin as a touristy place (at least back in the day); the “tourist” city in Texas most of us would say is San Antonio, with both Six Flags and Sea World there, plus the river-walk and the Alamo (which I’m not sure about how much people care about it outside Texas, least not forget it!).

Of course Austin has changed in recent years and is now pretty well-regarded by visitors that they stay here ;) . What Austin beats San Antonio in is the demographics; wealthier than its brother down south and younger (or I think it was specifically “wealthier younger people”). Sure London should attract enough people from Austin on it’s own, plus I presume Austin may be more popular in England/Europe than San Antonio so more routes to Austin instead...? As some user put it, a lot of tourism to San Antonio is in state, perhaps not so much outside Texas and beyond.
 
AAvgeek744
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:39 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:
texdravid wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
Atlanta is the largest airport in the USA, still Norwegian doesn't fly there. Why not? Because the city of Atlanta doesn't draw many tourists. Same goes for Houston and Dallas. They're big cities, but not very exciting.


This.

DFW and IAH are NOT on the radar of most Europeans who are tourists. DFW denizens fail to see that. They think their city is some international hotbed. It’s simply an nice place to live and work and do business.....


I lived in the DFW area for 13 years and I have to agree with you that Dallas/Fort Worth is simply not a tourist destination both for those who live in the United States and those who reside outside the U.S. A nice to place to live for sure but I have yet to meet one person whose dream vacation was a trip to the Dallas/Fort Worth metro area.


While I don't expect DY into either anytime soon, why is it continually being said Dallas and Houston are not tourist cites? Has anyone considered that people living in those cities ARE tourists, and would love to have an LCC so that they can travel to Europe? Believe it or not, the major hub carriers in those two cities have significant detractors. Give them a cheap flight, they will go to Europe on DY. Flights do work both ways you know.
 
dfwjim1
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:44 pm

AAvgeek744 wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:
texdravid wrote:

This.

DFW and IAH are NOT on the radar of most Europeans who are tourists. DFW denizens fail to see that. They think their city is some international hotbed. It’s simply an nice place to live and work and do business.....


I lived in the DFW area for 13 years and I have to agree with you that Dallas/Fort Worth is simply not a tourist destination both for those who live in the United States and those who reside outside the U.S. A nice to place to live for sure but I have yet to meet one person whose dream vacation was a trip to the Dallas/Fort Worth metro area.


While I don't expect DY into either anytime soon, why is it continually being said Dallas and Houston are not tourist cites? Has anyone considered that people living in those cities ARE tourists, and would love to have an LCC so that they can travel to Europe? Believe it or not, the major hub carriers in those two cities have significant detractors. Give them a cheap flight, they will go to Europe on DY. Flights do work both ways you know.


Yes, people in DFW travel a lot to various destinations so, yes, there are many outbound tourists from DFW much more so than there are people that want to visit the DFW metro area.
 
Fastphilly
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:04 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:
AAvgeek744 wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:

I lived in the DFW area for 13 years and I have to agree with you that Dallas/Fort Worth is simply not a tourist destination both for those who live in the United States and those who reside outside the U.S. A nice to place to live for sure but I have yet to meet one person whose dream vacation was a trip to the Dallas/Fort Worth metro area.


While I don't expect DY into either anytime soon, why is it continually being said Dallas and Houston are not tourist cites? Has anyone considered that people living in those cities ARE tourists, and would love to have an LCC so that they can travel to Europe? Believe it or not, the major hub carriers in those two cities have significant detractors. Give them a cheap flight, they will go to Europe on DY. Flights do work both ways you know.


Yes, people in DFW travel a lot to various destinations so, yes, there are many outbound tourists from DFW much more so than there are people that want to visit the DFW metro area.


Which is the precise reason cities like DFW, ATL and IAH have fewer foreign carriers compared to some other peer U.S. cities. It's not because of the domination of AA at DFW or DL at ATL. It's to do with a lack of demand from abroad.
 
chumley
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:20 pm

SFOA380 wrote:
Also better to judge size by CSA rather than MSA because it better speaks to the catchment area.

I'm not sure everybody would agree with this opinion.
Especially those from PHX, TPA, SAN, SAT and AUS among others.
 
nmdrdh787
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:07 pm

More likely you would see WW and FI in those markets than DY.
 
Arion640
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:34 pm

Airliners.net in melt down because a succesful airline doesn’t fly to two of the big US carriers hubs.
 
Fastphilly
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:39 pm

chumley wrote:
SFOA380 wrote:
Also better to judge size by CSA rather than MSA because it better speaks to the catchment area.

I'm not sure everybody would agree with this opinion.
Especially those from PHX, TPA, SAN, SAT and AUS among others.


People in the SF Bay Area will agree using CSA. It is a better barometer to use than MSA when discussing catchment area. The majority of travelers in the San Jose metro use SFO for overseas travel. As do the Stockton, Sacramento and North Bay regions.

Those markets you mention have no significant population disparity between MSA and CSA population wise, but a CSA will always have a higher population count than a MSA that is why CSA is a better measurement
Last edited by Fastphilly on Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:41 pm

Fastphilly wrote:
chumley wrote:
SFOA380 wrote:
Also better to judge size by CSA rather than MSA because it better speaks to the catchment area.

I'm not sure everybody would agree with this opinion.
Especially those from PHX, TPA, SAN, SAT and AUS among others.


People in the SF Bay Area will agree using CSA. It is a better barometer to use than MSA when discussing catchment area. The majority of travelers in the San Jose metro use SFO for overseas travel. As do the Stockton, Sacramento and North Bay regions.


Outside of the Bay Area and DC/Baltimore however, the CSA measurement is pretty terrible.
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Fastphilly
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:45 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Fastphilly wrote:
chumley wrote:
I'm not sure everybody would agree with this opinion.
Especially those from PHX, TPA, SAN, SAT and AUS among others.


People in the SF Bay Area will agree using CSA. It is a better barometer to use than MSA when discussing catchment area. The majority of travelers in the San Jose metro use SFO for overseas travel. As do the Stockton, Sacramento and North Bay regions.


Outside of the Bay Area and DC/Baltimore however, the CSA measurement is pretty terrible.


I'm not saying your incorrect, but can you give a example as to why MSA is better than CSA for catchment?
 
rrapynot
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:45 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
How much traffic/money does Norwegian get from the US point of sale? I'd imagine they cater much more to the European traveler than the American traveler.


Not much because they don't have a feeder at the American end of the line. All they got is local demand from around their served airports and some self-transfers, but that's it. In Europe they got an extensive short-haul feeder network.


When I’ve flown them out of Oakland it seems like it’s a 50/50 mix of European and USA passengers.
 
Fastphilly
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:49 pm

rrapynot wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
How much traffic/money does Norwegian get from the US point of sale? I'd imagine they cater much more to the European traveler than the American traveler.


Not much because they don't have a feeder at the American end of the line. All they got is local demand from around their served airports and some self-transfers, but that's it. In Europe they got an extensive short-haul feeder network.


When I’ve flown them out of Oakland it seems like it’s a 50/50 mix of European and USA passengers.


That is due to a higher European immigrant population in the Bay Area , not just tourists. The Bay Area is a more affluent region compared to Texas cities as well.
 
CrawleyBen
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:59 pm

Would there be any benefit in DY starting ops from Baltimore Airport instead of Washington Dulles does anyone think? I've never travelled to either airport myself, so forgive me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing the former might be easier to obtain slots at, and said slots might also be cheaper? I am aware BA and WOW Airlines both serve Baltimore, so DY would be in direct competition with 2 rivals operating to London (Heathrow & Gatwick respectively)

Just a thought...

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LAXdude1023
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:00 pm

Fastphilly wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
Fastphilly wrote:

People in the SF Bay Area will agree using CSA. It is a better barometer to use than MSA when discussing catchment area. The majority of travelers in the San Jose metro use SFO for overseas travel. As do the Stockton, Sacramento and North Bay regions.


Outside of the Bay Area and DC/Baltimore however, the CSA measurement is pretty terrible.


I'm not saying your incorrect, but can you give a example as to why MSA is better than CSA for catchment?


Look at places like LA's CSA. Technically, Blythe, CA is part of the CSA. Thats a solid 250 miles away from LA. The problem is that there is no way to break down counties. Some counties are abnormally large. Also, DFW's CSA goes into Oklahoma, Miami's CSA runs to Port St. Lucie, Atlanta's CSA runs into Alabama, etc. Even the Bay Area has Stockton in its CSA which I question as being part of that catchment too.

I dont look at MSA either. I look at Urban Area. I see the argument for San Jose being with San Francisco, but not Stockton or Hollister.
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Fastphilly
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:12 pm

I can understand that some counties are abnormally large and you give good examples, but Stockton is indeed part of the SFO catchment area. The commute patterns to the inner Bay Area region supports that. It's not absurd to think a 1 hour 20 minute drive is to far out to be included in a catchment area. Especially when their airport has one carrier flying to three cities with limited inter-continental flights.
 
ADrum23
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:26 pm

nmdrdh787 wrote:
More likely you would see WW and FI in those markets than DY.


And both WW and FI are coming into DFW next year, so contrary to some claims on this thread, there is demand for tourism travel in the DFW area.

I don't see why DY couldn't start DFW-LGW or DFW-CDG and not be successful. I think it will happen eventually, maybe next year.
 
ADrum23
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:27 pm

PA12 wrote:
Miami? You mean Ft. Lauderdale....


Yes, but FLL is within the Miami market, so I count that.
 
CHI2DFW
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:52 am

ADrum23 wrote:
nmdrdh787 wrote:
More likely you would see WW and FI in those markets than DY.


And both WW and FI are coming into DFW next year, so contrary to some claims on this thread, there is demand for tourism travel in the DFW area.

I don't see why DY couldn't start DFW-LGW or DFW-CDG and not be successful. I think it will happen eventually, maybe next year.


DFW, IAH, and ORD get practically no love from this forum. Probably the 3 most disliked / disrespected airports on this forum (although fans of the DL hub in Michigan will claim to be the most hated hub in the world).
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:59 am

Norwegian applied for route authority from Argentina to Dallas and got it. They didn't ask for Houston. So it's on their minds. Kjos has mentioned Dallas before so I suspect you'll see them announce Dallas sometime in 2018 either for late 2018 to April of 2019. Too bad they can't get into the same airport as WN, as that would be a self connector's dream.
Last edited by WaywardMemphian on Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:04 am

.
 
ADrum23
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:19 am

WaywardMemphian wrote:
Norwegian applied for route authority from Argentina to Dallas and got it. They didn't ask for Houston. So it's on their minds. Kjos has mentioned Dallas before so I suspect you'll see them announce Dallas sometime in 2018 either for late 2018 to April of 2019. Too bad they can't get into the same airport as WN, as that would be a self connector's dream.


So they'd operate from DFW to Argentina, but what about Dallas to destinations like London-Gatwick, Paris, Stockholm, etc?
 
ADrum23
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:24 am

CHI2DFW wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
nmdrdh787 wrote:
More likely you would see WW and FI in those markets than DY.


And both WW and FI are coming into DFW next year, so contrary to some claims on this thread, there is demand for tourism travel in the DFW area.

I don't see why DY couldn't start DFW-LGW or DFW-CDG and not be successful. I think it will happen eventually, maybe next year.


DFW, IAH, and ORD get practically no love from this forum. Probably the 3 most disliked / disrespected airports on this forum (although fans of the DL hub in Michigan will claim to be the most hated hub in the world).


I'll say. DFW and IAH are the fourth and fifth biggest markets in the country, they are no small potatoes. I expect the Dallas/Fort Worth area to overtake Chicago as the third biggest market within the next 20 or so years. The Houston market may leapfrog Chicago as well, but growth may stall a bit due to the effects of Hurricane Harvey.

All in all, DY will come to both DFW and IAH soon (my guess is the former before the latter), it's just a matter of when. I just wanted to know if someone had some insider info.
 
Fastphilly
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Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:05 am

ADrum23 wrote:
CHI2DFW wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:

And both WW and FI are coming into DFW next year, so contrary to some claims on this thread, there is demand for tourism travel in the DFW area.

I don't see why DY couldn't start DFW-LGW or DFW-CDG and not be successful. I think it will happen eventually, maybe next year.


DFW, IAH, and ORD get practically no love from this forum. Probably the 3 most disliked / disrespected airports on this forum (although fans of the DL hub in Michigan will claim to be the most hated hub in the world).


I'll say. DFW and IAH are the fourth and fifth biggest markets in the country, they are no small potatoes. I expect the Dallas/Fort Worth area to overtake Chicago as the third biggest market within the next 20 or so years. The Houston market may leapfrog Chicago as well, but growth may stall a bit due to the effects of Hurricane Harvey.

All in all, DY will come to both DFW and IAH soon (my guess is the former before the latter), it's just a matter of when. I just wanted to know if someone had some insider info.


No the 4th and 5th largest markets are Bal/DC and SF Bay Area. BOS is 6th. DFW is 7th and IAH is 9th
 
ADrum23
Topic Author
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:28 am

Fastphilly wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
CHI2DFW wrote:

DFW, IAH, and ORD get practically no love from this forum. Probably the 3 most disliked / disrespected airports on this forum (although fans of the DL hub in Michigan will claim to be the most hated hub in the world).


I'll say. DFW and IAH are the fourth and fifth biggest markets in the country, they are no small potatoes. I expect the Dallas/Fort Worth area to overtake Chicago as the third biggest market within the next 20 or so years. The Houston market may leapfrog Chicago as well, but growth may stall a bit due to the effects of Hurricane Harvey.

All in all, DY will come to both DFW and IAH soon (my guess is the former before the latter), it's just a matter of when. I just wanted to know if someone had some insider info.


No the 4th and 5th largest markets are Bal/DC and SF Bay Area. BOS is 6th. DFW is 7th and IAH is 9th


No, those are combined statistical areas, which are not traditionally referred to as markets. Metro areas are, and DFW and IAH are 4th and 5th respectively in that.
 
JRL3289
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:57 pm

Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:45 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Fastphilly wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:

Outside of the Bay Area and DC/Baltimore however, the CSA measurement is pretty terrible.


I'm not saying your incorrect, but can you give a example as to why MSA is better than CSA for catchment?


Look at places like LA's CSA. Technically, Blythe, CA is part of the CSA. Thats a solid 250 miles away from LA. The problem is that there is no way to break down counties. Some counties are abnormally large. Also, DFW's CSA goes into Oklahoma, Miami's CSA runs to Port St. Lucie, Atlanta's CSA runs into Alabama, etc. Even the Bay Area has Stockton in its CSA which I question as being part of that catchment too.

I dont look at MSA either. I look at Urban Area. I see the argument for San Jose being with San Francisco, but not Stockton or Hollister.


While I'll give you that Riverside and San Bernardino are two of the oddest counties in the country (though, no doubt it is because the eastern parts of each are very sparsely populated), I don't think the fact that a town of 20,000 (Blythe) being 200+ miles from LA is necessarily a strike against CSAs as an air market barometer. There's obviously bleed between adjoining statistical areas (most prevalent in the eastern third of the country), especially given that perhaps SAN/LAS/PHX might be closer, but I still doubt we'd find many people in the entirety of Southern California that don't at least look at LAX before booking a ticket. The fact remains that there are economic ties between constituent cities and towns within a CSA which would most certainly presage a level of air traffic, especially absent alternative airports. This is all the more reason why the CSA metric is more telling for DFW and IAH. Both are huge hubs that drive a massive amount of O/D that extends well beyond the urbanized areas of Houston and Dallas/Fort Worth.

ADrum23 wrote:
Fastphilly wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:

I'll say. DFW and IAH are the fourth and fifth biggest markets in the country, they are no small potatoes. I expect the Dallas/Fort Worth area to overtake Chicago as the third biggest market within the next 20 or so years. The Houston market may leapfrog Chicago as well, but growth may stall a bit due to the effects of Hurricane Harvey.

All in all, DY will come to both DFW and IAH soon (my guess is the former before the latter), it's just a matter of when. I just wanted to know if someone had some insider info.


No the 4th and 5th largest markets are Bal/DC and SF Bay Area. BOS is 6th. DFW is 7th and IAH is 9th


No, those are combined statistical areas, which are not traditionally referred to as markets. Metro areas are, and DFW and IAH are 4th and 5th respectively in that.


Traditionally by whom? What other airports exist in either the Houston or Dallas/Fort Worth CSAs that are serving the populations contained within each? I can only think of IAH/HOU and DFW/DAL. Coincidentally, both airport pairs are wholly located within the corresponding MSA. I'm struggling to see how the smaller MSA numbers are more representative of these particular markets. Is it because Houston and Dallas rank higher by that particular metric?
 
Fastphilly
Posts: 361
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:32 am

Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:05 am

ADrum23 wrote:
Fastphilly wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:

I'll say. DFW and IAH are the fourth and fifth biggest markets in the country, they are no small potatoes. I expect the Dallas/Fort Worth area to overtake Chicago as the third biggest market within the next 20 or so years. The Houston market may leapfrog Chicago as well, but growth may stall a bit due to the effects of Hurricane Harvey.

All in all, DY will come to both DFW and IAH soon (my guess is the former before the latter), it's just a matter of when. I just wanted to know if someone had some insider info.


No the 4th and 5th largest markets are Bal/DC and SF Bay Area. BOS is 6th. DFW is 7th and IAH is 9th


No, those are combined statistical areas, which are not traditionally referred to as markets. Metro areas are, and DFW and IAH are 4th and 5th respectively in that.


In the case of the SF Bay it certainly is. Same media market, shared pro sports team, shared heavy rail transit, San Jose metro overwhelmingly uses SFO (especially for international travel). You make a case for BAL/DC, but not the Bay Area
 
ADrum23
Topic Author
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:21 am

JRL3289 wrote:
Traditionally by whom? What other airports exist in either the Houston or Dallas/Fort Worth CSAs that are serving the populations contained within each? I can only think of IAH/HOU and DFW/DAL. Coincidentally, both airport pairs are wholly located within the corresponding MSA. I'm struggling to see how the smaller MSA numbers are more representative of these particular markets. Is it because Houston and Dallas rank higher by that particular metric?


All I am saying there is, I never hear about a CSA in reference how big a market is, either in the media or in casual talk, it is only MSA.

It doesn't matter anyway. In any case, both Dallas/Fort Worth and Houston are in the top 10 CSA's and will likely move up a few spots in the coming decades due to long-term population trends. Both have strong O&D airports that could support DY, so I don't get all this "Dallas and Houston don't generate enough tourism for DY" nonsense. If that were the case, WW and Icelandair wouldn't be coming to DFW. My guess is DY (assuming it continues expanding) will be coming into DFW pretty soon, and then IAH could follow soon.
 
ADrum23
Topic Author
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:23 am

Fastphilly wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
Fastphilly wrote:

No the 4th and 5th largest markets are Bal/DC and SF Bay Area. BOS is 6th. DFW is 7th and IAH is 9th


No, those are combined statistical areas, which are not traditionally referred to as markets. Metro areas are, and DFW and IAH are 4th and 5th respectively in that.


In the case of the SF Bay it certainly is. Same media market, shared pro sports team, shared heavy rail transit, San Jose metro overwhelmingly uses SFO (especially for international travel). You make a case for BAL/DC, but not the Bay Area


It doesn't really matter anyway. As I said in my previous post, both DFW and IAH are in the top 10 CSA's in the country, and will likely move up a few spots (Dallas/Fort Worth in particular) due to long-term population growth trends. Both can support DY, contrary to what some may say here.
 
Fastphilly
Posts: 361
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:32 am

Re: When will Norwegian come into DFW and IAH?

Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:02 am

Just because Iceland Air and WOW have started DFW doesn't mean DY is coming. FI and WW run their operations like a smaller version of DXB (Emirates). Rock bottom fares for budget travelers between the U.S. and Europe that have to connect at their hubs. DY is different.

KL is a good example, if DFW-AMS struggled, how would DY fare any better from a smaller 2nd tier European city?

Both WW and FI don't start until May of 2018 so it's still a wait and see approach.

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