Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
PatrickZ80 wrote:Atlanta is the largest airport in the USA, still Norwegian doesn't fly there. Why not? Because the city of Atlanta doesn't draw many tourists. Same goes for Houston and Dallas. They're big cities, but not very exciting.
flyingclrs727 wrote:Well they are adding LGW-AUS and AUS-LGW next spring.
flyingclrs727 wrote:Well they are adding LGW-AUS and AUS-LGW next spring.
flight152 wrote:flyingclrs727 wrote:Well they are adding LGW-AUS and AUS-LGW next spring.
Really? You need to mention both segments as if it’s something noteworthy they are flying both directions of the city pairing?
QueenoftheSkies wrote:flyingclrs727 wrote:Well they are adding LGW-AUS and AUS-LGW next spring.
That’s great but irrelevant given it’s neither DFW or IAH. Lol
flyingclrs727 wrote:QueenoftheSkies wrote:flyingclrs727 wrote:Well they are adding LGW-AUS and AUS-LGW next spring.
That’s great but irrelevant given it’s neither DFW or IAH. Lol
And why would an airline that caters mostly to vacationers want to serve those two airports?
DariusBieber wrote:SAT attracts way more tourists than AUS though
TWA772LR wrote:How much traffic/money does Norwegian get from the US point of sale? I'd imagine they cater much more to the European traveler than the American traveler.
PatrickZ80 wrote:Atlanta is the largest airport in the USA, still Norwegian doesn't fly there. Why not? Because the city of Atlanta doesn't draw many tourists. Same goes for Houston and Dallas. They're big cities, but not very exciting.
texdravid wrote:PatrickZ80 wrote:Atlanta is the largest airport in the USA, still Norwegian doesn't fly there. Why not? Because the city of Atlanta doesn't draw many tourists. Same goes for Houston and Dallas. They're big cities, but not very exciting.
This.
DFW and IAH are NOT on the radar of most Europeans who are tourists. DFW denizens fail to see that. They think their city is some international hotbed. It’s simply an nice place to live and work and do business.....
texdravid wrote:PatrickZ80 wrote:Atlanta is the largest airport in the USA, still Norwegian doesn't fly there. Why not? Because the city of Atlanta doesn't draw many tourists. Same goes for Houston and Dallas. They're big cities, but not very exciting.
This.
DFW and IAH are NOT on the radar of most Europeans who are tourists. DFW denizens fail to see that. They think their city is some international hotbed. It’s simply an nice place to live and work and do business.....
texdravid wrote:PatrickZ80 wrote:Atlanta is the largest airport in the USA, still Norwegian doesn't fly there. Why not? Because the city of Atlanta doesn't draw many tourists. Same goes for Houston and Dallas. They're big cities, but not very exciting.
This.
DFW and IAH are NOT on the radar of most Europeans who are tourists. DFW denizens fail to see that. They think their city is some international hotbed. It’s simply an nice place to live and work and do business.....
texdravid wrote:PatrickZ80 wrote:Atlanta is the largest airport in the USA, still Norwegian doesn't fly there. Why not? Because the city of Atlanta doesn't draw many tourists. Same goes for Houston and Dallas. They're big cities, but not very exciting.
This.
DFW and IAH are NOT on the radar of most Europeans who are tourists. DFW denizens fail to see that. They think their city is some international hotbed. It’s simply an nice place to live and work and do business.....
ro1960 wrote:DariusBieber wrote:SAT attracts way more tourists than AUS though
How many TATL flights do each of them get at the moment? Which airlines ?
dfwjim1 wrote:texdravid wrote:PatrickZ80 wrote:Atlanta is the largest airport in the USA, still Norwegian doesn't fly there. Why not? Because the city of Atlanta doesn't draw many tourists. Same goes for Houston and Dallas. They're big cities, but not very exciting.
This.
DFW and IAH are NOT on the radar of most Europeans who are tourists. DFW denizens fail to see that. They think their city is some international hotbed. It’s simply an nice place to live and work and do business.....
I lived in the DFW area for 13 years and I have to agree with you that Dallas/Fort Worth is simply not a tourist destination both for those who live in the United States and those who reside outside the U.S. A nice to place to live for sure but I have yet to meet one person whose dream vacation was a trip to the Dallas/Fort Worth metro area.
AAvgeek744 wrote:dfwjim1 wrote:texdravid wrote:
This.
DFW and IAH are NOT on the radar of most Europeans who are tourists. DFW denizens fail to see that. They think their city is some international hotbed. It’s simply an nice place to live and work and do business.....
I lived in the DFW area for 13 years and I have to agree with you that Dallas/Fort Worth is simply not a tourist destination both for those who live in the United States and those who reside outside the U.S. A nice to place to live for sure but I have yet to meet one person whose dream vacation was a trip to the Dallas/Fort Worth metro area.
While I don't expect DY into either anytime soon, why is it continually being said Dallas and Houston are not tourist cites? Has anyone considered that people living in those cities ARE tourists, and would love to have an LCC so that they can travel to Europe? Believe it or not, the major hub carriers in those two cities have significant detractors. Give them a cheap flight, they will go to Europe on DY. Flights do work both ways you know.
dfwjim1 wrote:AAvgeek744 wrote:dfwjim1 wrote:
I lived in the DFW area for 13 years and I have to agree with you that Dallas/Fort Worth is simply not a tourist destination both for those who live in the United States and those who reside outside the U.S. A nice to place to live for sure but I have yet to meet one person whose dream vacation was a trip to the Dallas/Fort Worth metro area.
While I don't expect DY into either anytime soon, why is it continually being said Dallas and Houston are not tourist cites? Has anyone considered that people living in those cities ARE tourists, and would love to have an LCC so that they can travel to Europe? Believe it or not, the major hub carriers in those two cities have significant detractors. Give them a cheap flight, they will go to Europe on DY. Flights do work both ways you know.
Yes, people in DFW travel a lot to various destinations so, yes, there are many outbound tourists from DFW much more so than there are people that want to visit the DFW metro area.
SFOA380 wrote:Also better to judge size by CSA rather than MSA because it better speaks to the catchment area.
chumley wrote:SFOA380 wrote:Also better to judge size by CSA rather than MSA because it better speaks to the catchment area.
I'm not sure everybody would agree with this opinion.
Especially those from PHX, TPA, SAN, SAT and AUS among others.
Fastphilly wrote:chumley wrote:SFOA380 wrote:Also better to judge size by CSA rather than MSA because it better speaks to the catchment area.
I'm not sure everybody would agree with this opinion.
Especially those from PHX, TPA, SAN, SAT and AUS among others.
People in the SF Bay Area will agree using CSA. It is a better barometer to use than MSA when discussing catchment area. The majority of travelers in the San Jose metro use SFO for overseas travel. As do the Stockton, Sacramento and North Bay regions.
LAXdude1023 wrote:Fastphilly wrote:chumley wrote:I'm not sure everybody would agree with this opinion.
Especially those from PHX, TPA, SAN, SAT and AUS among others.
People in the SF Bay Area will agree using CSA. It is a better barometer to use than MSA when discussing catchment area. The majority of travelers in the San Jose metro use SFO for overseas travel. As do the Stockton, Sacramento and North Bay regions.
Outside of the Bay Area and DC/Baltimore however, the CSA measurement is pretty terrible.
PatrickZ80 wrote:TWA772LR wrote:How much traffic/money does Norwegian get from the US point of sale? I'd imagine they cater much more to the European traveler than the American traveler.
Not much because they don't have a feeder at the American end of the line. All they got is local demand from around their served airports and some self-transfers, but that's it. In Europe they got an extensive short-haul feeder network.
rrapynot wrote:PatrickZ80 wrote:TWA772LR wrote:How much traffic/money does Norwegian get from the US point of sale? I'd imagine they cater much more to the European traveler than the American traveler.
Not much because they don't have a feeder at the American end of the line. All they got is local demand from around their served airports and some self-transfers, but that's it. In Europe they got an extensive short-haul feeder network.
When I’ve flown them out of Oakland it seems like it’s a 50/50 mix of European and USA passengers.
Fastphilly wrote:LAXdude1023 wrote:Fastphilly wrote:
People in the SF Bay Area will agree using CSA. It is a better barometer to use than MSA when discussing catchment area. The majority of travelers in the San Jose metro use SFO for overseas travel. As do the Stockton, Sacramento and North Bay regions.
Outside of the Bay Area and DC/Baltimore however, the CSA measurement is pretty terrible.
I'm not saying your incorrect, but can you give a example as to why MSA is better than CSA for catchment?
nmdrdh787 wrote:More likely you would see WW and FI in those markets than DY.
PA12 wrote:Miami? You mean Ft. Lauderdale....
ADrum23 wrote:nmdrdh787 wrote:More likely you would see WW and FI in those markets than DY.
And both WW and FI are coming into DFW next year, so contrary to some claims on this thread, there is demand for tourism travel in the DFW area.
I don't see why DY couldn't start DFW-LGW or DFW-CDG and not be successful. I think it will happen eventually, maybe next year.
WaywardMemphian wrote:Norwegian applied for route authority from Argentina to Dallas and got it. They didn't ask for Houston. So it's on their minds. Kjos has mentioned Dallas before so I suspect you'll see them announce Dallas sometime in 2018 either for late 2018 to April of 2019. Too bad they can't get into the same airport as WN, as that would be a self connector's dream.
CHI2DFW wrote:ADrum23 wrote:nmdrdh787 wrote:More likely you would see WW and FI in those markets than DY.
And both WW and FI are coming into DFW next year, so contrary to some claims on this thread, there is demand for tourism travel in the DFW area.
I don't see why DY couldn't start DFW-LGW or DFW-CDG and not be successful. I think it will happen eventually, maybe next year.
DFW, IAH, and ORD get practically no love from this forum. Probably the 3 most disliked / disrespected airports on this forum (although fans of the DL hub in Michigan will claim to be the most hated hub in the world).
ADrum23 wrote:CHI2DFW wrote:ADrum23 wrote:
And both WW and FI are coming into DFW next year, so contrary to some claims on this thread, there is demand for tourism travel in the DFW area.
I don't see why DY couldn't start DFW-LGW or DFW-CDG and not be successful. I think it will happen eventually, maybe next year.
DFW, IAH, and ORD get practically no love from this forum. Probably the 3 most disliked / disrespected airports on this forum (although fans of the DL hub in Michigan will claim to be the most hated hub in the world).
I'll say. DFW and IAH are the fourth and fifth biggest markets in the country, they are no small potatoes. I expect the Dallas/Fort Worth area to overtake Chicago as the third biggest market within the next 20 or so years. The Houston market may leapfrog Chicago as well, but growth may stall a bit due to the effects of Hurricane Harvey.
All in all, DY will come to both DFW and IAH soon (my guess is the former before the latter), it's just a matter of when. I just wanted to know if someone had some insider info.
Fastphilly wrote:ADrum23 wrote:CHI2DFW wrote:
DFW, IAH, and ORD get practically no love from this forum. Probably the 3 most disliked / disrespected airports on this forum (although fans of the DL hub in Michigan will claim to be the most hated hub in the world).
I'll say. DFW and IAH are the fourth and fifth biggest markets in the country, they are no small potatoes. I expect the Dallas/Fort Worth area to overtake Chicago as the third biggest market within the next 20 or so years. The Houston market may leapfrog Chicago as well, but growth may stall a bit due to the effects of Hurricane Harvey.
All in all, DY will come to both DFW and IAH soon (my guess is the former before the latter), it's just a matter of when. I just wanted to know if someone had some insider info.
No the 4th and 5th largest markets are Bal/DC and SF Bay Area. BOS is 6th. DFW is 7th and IAH is 9th
LAXdude1023 wrote:Fastphilly wrote:LAXdude1023 wrote:
Outside of the Bay Area and DC/Baltimore however, the CSA measurement is pretty terrible.
I'm not saying your incorrect, but can you give a example as to why MSA is better than CSA for catchment?
Look at places like LA's CSA. Technically, Blythe, CA is part of the CSA. Thats a solid 250 miles away from LA. The problem is that there is no way to break down counties. Some counties are abnormally large. Also, DFW's CSA goes into Oklahoma, Miami's CSA runs to Port St. Lucie, Atlanta's CSA runs into Alabama, etc. Even the Bay Area has Stockton in its CSA which I question as being part of that catchment too.
I dont look at MSA either. I look at Urban Area. I see the argument for San Jose being with San Francisco, but not Stockton or Hollister.
ADrum23 wrote:Fastphilly wrote:ADrum23 wrote:
I'll say. DFW and IAH are the fourth and fifth biggest markets in the country, they are no small potatoes. I expect the Dallas/Fort Worth area to overtake Chicago as the third biggest market within the next 20 or so years. The Houston market may leapfrog Chicago as well, but growth may stall a bit due to the effects of Hurricane Harvey.
All in all, DY will come to both DFW and IAH soon (my guess is the former before the latter), it's just a matter of when. I just wanted to know if someone had some insider info.
No the 4th and 5th largest markets are Bal/DC and SF Bay Area. BOS is 6th. DFW is 7th and IAH is 9th
No, those are combined statistical areas, which are not traditionally referred to as markets. Metro areas are, and DFW and IAH are 4th and 5th respectively in that.
ADrum23 wrote:Fastphilly wrote:ADrum23 wrote:
I'll say. DFW and IAH are the fourth and fifth biggest markets in the country, they are no small potatoes. I expect the Dallas/Fort Worth area to overtake Chicago as the third biggest market within the next 20 or so years. The Houston market may leapfrog Chicago as well, but growth may stall a bit due to the effects of Hurricane Harvey.
All in all, DY will come to both DFW and IAH soon (my guess is the former before the latter), it's just a matter of when. I just wanted to know if someone had some insider info.
No the 4th and 5th largest markets are Bal/DC and SF Bay Area. BOS is 6th. DFW is 7th and IAH is 9th
No, those are combined statistical areas, which are not traditionally referred to as markets. Metro areas are, and DFW and IAH are 4th and 5th respectively in that.
JRL3289 wrote:Traditionally by whom? What other airports exist in either the Houston or Dallas/Fort Worth CSAs that are serving the populations contained within each? I can only think of IAH/HOU and DFW/DAL. Coincidentally, both airport pairs are wholly located within the corresponding MSA. I'm struggling to see how the smaller MSA numbers are more representative of these particular markets. Is it because Houston and Dallas rank higher by that particular metric?
Fastphilly wrote:ADrum23 wrote:Fastphilly wrote:
No the 4th and 5th largest markets are Bal/DC and SF Bay Area. BOS is 6th. DFW is 7th and IAH is 9th
No, those are combined statistical areas, which are not traditionally referred to as markets. Metro areas are, and DFW and IAH are 4th and 5th respectively in that.
In the case of the SF Bay it certainly is. Same media market, shared pro sports team, shared heavy rail transit, San Jose metro overwhelmingly uses SFO (especially for international travel). You make a case for BAL/DC, but not the Bay Area