Joon unveils 7 new routes

KarelXWB · Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:06 am

In addition to the previously announced routes (Berlin / Porto / Barcelona / Lisbon), Joon will take over flights from Air France to Rome, Napels, Oslo, Istanbul, Cairo, Cape Town and Tehran.

Article
https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... tra-routes

Cabin crew unions are not happy by this move and have spoiled Joon's launch party.

Article
https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... estje-joon

Kilopond · Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:28 am

From anothoer article:

[...]IAG CEO Willie Walsh said Joon was a “hybrid” rather than “a very low-cost operation,” adding: “I’m not sure what Air France is doing there.”

Designing a New Airline for Hipsters (And Air France Investors)

runway23 · Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:37 am

Kilopond wrote:
From anothoer article:

[...]IAG CEO Willie Walsh said Joon was a “hybrid” rather than “a very low-cost operation,” adding: “I’m not sure what Air France is doing there.”

Designing a New Airline for Hipsters (And Air France Investors)

Basically they are doing what they can. The unions aren’t make AFKLs job easy.

Joon is basically the same as BA’s mixed fleet just that AF is forced to have a different branding.

KarelXWB · Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:42 am

Kilopond wrote:
From anothoer article:

[...]IAG CEO Willie Walsh said Joon was a “hybrid” rather than “a very low-cost operation,” adding: “I’m not sure what Air France is doing there.”

Willie Walsh should choose his words carefully. His Level venture doesn't even has its own AOC.

Someone83 · Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:51 am

Air France just transfered CDG-OSL from Hop! to Air France mainline from end October, so that didn't last long, as it now will be Joon from March 25

luchtzak · Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:54 am

About the uniforms, website Upinthesky.nl says: "The airline targets youngsters, looking at the flight attendants uniforms. It's not a traditional uniform, but they look like hipsters in coffee bar!"

Do they have to work at Joon until 60 ? or is that age-restricted ;-)

http://www.upinthesky.nl/2017/11/30/air ... we-routes/

Slash787 · Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:59 am

I guess they will fly to Seychelles also.

Richard28 · Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:02 am

KarelXWB wrote:
Kilopond wrote:
From anothoer article:

[...]IAG CEO Willie Walsh said Joon was a “hybrid” rather than “a very low-cost operation,” adding: “I’m not sure what Air France is doing there.”

Willie Walsh should choose his words carefully. His Level venture doesn't even has its own AOC.

This is true, however in Levels case, I think this is more a question of timing rather than strategy - Level will have its own AOC soon and piggy backed IB just to get up and running as soon as it could to counter the threat from Norwegian. Vueling on the other hand is a good example of an LCC being run well within a larger legacy airline group, so Willie has some experience here.

Mini1000 · Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:03 am

Hipsters? Those people don't look like hipsters. They look like supermarket checkout people.

directorguy · Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:21 am

I'm kind of confused.
AF operates a mainline full service flight to CAI. Switching that over to Joon will result in a lot of confusion.
For one- AF relies heavily on connecting pax to CAI (and THR) and people expect full service with included checked baggage on all sectors. Will that continue for someone ticketed on a mix of Joon/AF/DL flying ORD CDG CAI for example?
What about brand recognition. I see a lot of confusion happening-will we see an Air France operated by Joon type branding, or will AF rebrand everything from check in counters to city ticket offices as Joon?

luchtzak · Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:59 am

Joon offers free drinks, unless other LCC.

LY777 · Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:07 pm

luchtzak wrote:
Joon offers free drinks, unless other LCC.

So, in Y, no difference in service compared to AF?!

luchtzak · Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:36 pm

LY777 wrote:
luchtzak wrote:
Joon offers free drinks, unless other LCC.

So, in Y, no difference in service compared to AF?!

Looking at the catering concept for economy class medium-haul (menu card, the possibility to buy on board, …) there doesn’t seem much difference from other carriers like Ryanair or easyJet (except a free selection of beverages at any time of the day). Joon offers 60 different -mostly French- products while 20% of the offer is organic food (bio).

luchtzak · Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:37 pm

Millennials flying to Tehran ?

persiangulf93 · Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:59 pm

luchtzak wrote:
Millennials flying to Tehran ?

Iran has become a hotspot for backpackers and people that like to visit historical sites of ancient Persia.

CaliguyNYC · Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:24 pm

luchtzak wrote:
Millennials flying to Tehran ?

My thoughts exactly - this targeting young people is a load of crap. It is clear they are putting Joon on flights that are low yielding or non business - looks like CAI and THR fit into on of those categories.

luchtzak · Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:56 pm

persiangulf93 wrote:
luchtzak wrote:
Millennials flying to Tehran ?

Iran has become a hotspot for backpackers and people that like to visit historical sites of ancient Persia.

So the female flight attendants are allowed to enter Iran in that outfit ?

InnsbruckFlyer · Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:12 pm

All those destinations are currently served by AF, though. Will AF transfer those routes routes to JOON, or will they compete with each other?

GCT64 · Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:33 pm

Willie Walsh says "I’m not sure what Air France is doing there." - I think, reading the threads about Joon on a.net, that most of us agree with WW.
It looks like very mixed up thinking that is guaranteed to upset the unions and confuse customers.

skipness1E · Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:36 pm

Please tell me they're launching in month six for four weeks only......

IrishAyes · Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:57 pm

luchtzak wrote:
Millennials flying to Tehran ?

dontcha know? those beautiful mountains in the backdrop make it one of the most Instagram-worthy cities on earth!!! #WokeAF #satire

QueenoftheSkies · Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:04 pm

luchtzak wrote:
About the uniforms, website Upinthesky.nl says: "The airline targets youngsters, looking at the flight attendants uniforms. It's not a traditional uniform, but they look like hipsters in coffee bar!"

Do they have to work at Joon until 60 ? or is that age-restricted

http://www.upinthesky.nl/2017/11/30/air ... we-routes/

Hipster? Yea NO. Those uniforms look like terrible Halloween costumes.

Breathe · Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:18 pm

Does anyone else feel this going to end in tears or for the hipsters, a hibiscus infused gin topped with fresh Vietnamese lemon grass?

Spiderguy252 · Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:23 pm

Yet another one of those spin-off airlines that will meet its end sooner rather than later.

FA9295 · Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:24 pm

runway23 wrote:
Kilopond wrote:
From anothoer article:

[...]IAG CEO Willie Walsh said Joon was a “hybrid” rather than “a very low-cost operation,” adding: “I’m not sure what Air France is doing there.”

Designing a New Airline for Hipsters (And Air France Investors)

Basically they are doing what they can. The unions aren’t make AFKLs job easy.

Joon is basically the same as BA’s mixed fleet just that AF is forced to have a different branding.

Why would they be "forced" to have a new brand...?

chepos · Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:28 pm

Those poor ladies look silly.

aviationjunky · Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:22 pm

I don't see why everyone is upset with AF and JN. They are creating a LCC without calling it a LCC. That's it. Saying that they are designing the airline for "hipsters" and "millennials" just means pretty much everything is BOB and is minimal. Young people who travel don't care about the luxury of flight because odds are they are spending all their money in the city they're going to, not on the flight there.

The uniforms are a bit odd, but at least they can move in them. I've seen flight attendants that struggle because of the way the outfit is designed or is contoured to their body. I'm glad to see they are just simple. They are there to serve drinks and attend to the passengers, not be models walking up and down a runway.

To be honest, I like pretty much everything about JN so far, the purple is a nice change to the reds and blues we typically see. The uniforms are simple. They fly under AF so I'm sure the service will be just as good. I'm not sure why everyone is dragging them down so much, I think they have a chance to make it.

SCQ83 · Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:40 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
luchtzak wrote:
Millennials flying to Tehran ?

My thoughts exactly - this targeting young people is a load of crap. It is clear they are putting Joon on flights that are low yielding or non business - looks like CAI and THR fit into on of those categories.

IrishAyes wrote:
luchtzak wrote:
Millennials flying to Tehran ?

dontcha know? those beautiful mountains in the backdrop make it one of the most Instagram-worthy cities on earth!!! #WokeAF #satire

No matter the fact those changes are due to low-yields and not to "millennial" BS, I know a lot of European Millennials travelling to Iran. I bet there would be more (myself included) if it was not because of the US ESTA thing.

Fares Western Europe-Iran have also became dirty cheap in the last few years; it is not uncommon to find sub-200 EUR return fares connecting with Pegasus, Ukraine or any other obscure carrier. Also French millennials tend to be a more interested in culture than your average Brit looking for booze, so I can see well this flight being used by many "millennials".

jnev3289 · Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:43 pm

Lots of Joon bashing going on, but for me, at least they have an identity. Level(Iberia) is just a LHLC with no identity. Joon at least gets credit for trying something in my book. Also, I do like their uniforms, there is no need for stiff diplomacy in uniforms, especially on what amounts to an LCC. Simplicity, comfort, and free range of motion should reign supreme.

worldranger · Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:56 pm

IrishAyes wrote:
luchtzak wrote:
Millennials flying to Tehran ?

dontcha know? those beautiful mountains in the backdrop make it one of the most Instagram-worthy cities on earth!!! #WokeAF #satire

A close friend of mine, female Dr was harassed non stop for 10 days on her tour solo in Iran, from taxi drivers to waiters to random strangers - quite unsettling, I doubt those shorter skirts would be allowed in Iran.

sevenair · Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:23 pm

The uniforms look great for skinny people. I've a feeling it'll looo terrible. Particularly on the more 'fuller figured' gentleman.

hooverman · Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:59 pm

luchtzak wrote:
persiangulf93 wrote:
luchtzak wrote:
Millennials flying to Tehran ?

Iran has become a hotspot for backpackers and people that like to visit historical sites of ancient Persia.

So the female flight attendants are allowed to enter Iran in that outfit ?

No they are not. They need to wear a head scarf and cover their legs. I see some ladies wearing pants, that should be ok.

peterinlisbon · Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:15 pm

So does Joon do connections? Can I connect on a Joon flight from Istanbul to Marrakech via Paris?

PHBVF · Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:14 pm

jnev3289 wrote:
Lots of Joon bashing going on, but for me, at least they have an identity. Level(Iberia) is just a LHLC with no identity. Joon at least gets credit for trying something in my book. Also, I do like their uniforms, there is no need for stiff diplomacy in uniforms, especially on what amounts to an LCC. Simplicity, comfort, and free range of motion should reign supreme.

Passengers can be obnoxious and respectless as is. Without a uniform that exerts authority I would be anxious that this could get worse...

jnev3289 · Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:27 pm

PHBVF wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
Lots of Joon bashing going on, but for me, at least they have an identity. Level(Iberia) is just a LHLC with no identity. Joon at least gets credit for trying something in my book. Also, I do like their uniforms, there is no need for stiff diplomacy in uniforms, especially on what amounts to an LCC. Simplicity, comfort, and free range of motion should reign supreme.

Passengers can be obnoxious and respectless as is. Without a uniform that exerts authority I would be anxious that this could get worse...

I don't believe that has a real effect to be honest. I would bet Emirates has nearly the same pax rage incident rate as Frontier or Allegiant. I would think age would have more of an impact than uniform style

PHBVF · Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:31 pm

jnev3289 wrote:
PHBVF wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
Lots of Joon bashing going on, but for me, at least they have an identity. Level(Iberia) is just a LHLC with no identity. Joon at least gets credit for trying something in my book. Also, I do like their uniforms, there is no need for stiff diplomacy in uniforms, especially on what amounts to an LCC. Simplicity, comfort, and free range of motion should reign supreme.

Passengers can be obnoxious and respectless as is. Without a uniform that exerts authority I would be anxious that this could get worse...

I don't believe that has a real effect to be honest. I would bet Emirates has nearly the same pax rage incident rate as Frontier or Allegiant. I would think age would have more of an impact than uniform style

They're all factors. But an unprofessional looking "millennial" has a significant disadvantage in calming down a passenger than a professional looking person of the same age. Or indeed even more than an older cabin attendant.

jnev3289 · Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:41 pm

PHBVF wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
PHBVF wrote:

Passengers can be obnoxious and respectless as is. Without a uniform that exerts authority I would be anxious that this could get worse...

I don't believe that has a real effect to be honest. I would bet Emirates has nearly the same pax rage incident rate as Frontier or Allegiant. I would think age would have more of an impact than uniform style
They're all factors. But an unprofessional looking "millennial" has a significant disadvantage in calming down a passenger than a professional looking person of the same age. Or indeed even more than an older cabin attendant.

Do you really find those uniforms particularly "unprofessional"? They'll also have wings on them I'm sure and maybe their crew badges.

PHBVF · Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:43 pm

jnev3289 wrote:
PHBVF wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
I don't believe that has a real effect to be honest. I would bet Emirates has nearly the same pax rage incident rate as Frontier or Allegiant. I would think age would have more of an impact than uniform style
They're all factors. But an unprofessional looking "millennial" has a significant disadvantage in calming down a passenger than a professional looking person of the same age. Or indeed even more than an older cabin attendant.

Do you really find those uniforms particularly "unprofessional"? They'll also have wings on them I'm sure and maybe their crew badges.

Too casual. But I guess some people will see things differently

Armodeen · Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:55 pm

luchtzak wrote:
Millennials flying to Tehran ?

And Cairo

Don't AF fly a 789 on the Cairo route?!

Airdolomiti · Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:57 pm

I don't buy the "airline for millennials" slogan either. It's just a cheaper version of AF for lower-yielding routes, and ultimately no amount of PR speak can hide that fact.

aviationjunky wrote:
Young people who travel don't care about the luxury of flight because odds are they are spending all their money in the city they're going to, not on the flight there.

They may also well be too young to even remember what flying was like before LCCs became a thing, so they might not necessarily associate it with all the frills that used to be standard until a few years ago.

lostsound · Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:19 pm

This is the dumbest airline ever. The branding is ugly, the name is stupid, and as a millennial with many millennial friends, our asses aren't looking for an expensive bougie way to get from A to B. We're looking for cheapest fare, Southwest/Spirit airlines priced tickets and if we feel like treating ourselves, JetBlue.

AwysBSB · Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:16 am

JN at GIG would be beautiful, but first they need to have 77W in their fleet.

LHRFlyer · Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:50 am

There are many things you can say about Willie Walsh, but he’s not somebody I would bet against.

The analogy with Virgin Atlantic in the Bloomberg article is interesting. Virgin’s “cool” image worked for them at LHR under Bermuda II when there was enough room for BA and VS up against a relatively weak AA and UA. However, it’s been a long time since VS sold itself on its image, as it did in its 25th Birthday ad campaign.

Also, new uniforms did not assist Alitalia under Etihad’s partial ownership.

Fundamentally, short-haul travel in Europe is largely commoditised and it is network, schedule, reliability and punctuality that drives customer satisfaction.

ro1960 · Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:26 am

LY777 wrote:
luchtzak wrote:
Joon offers free drinks, unless other LCC.

So, in Y, no difference in service compared to AF?!

Just no cup holder on the back of the seat on Joon

ro1960 · Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:35 am

I've checked last minute fares to the destinations Joon opens today (Dec.1st) and they're not very competitive compared to U2 for example. Berlin is €250 on easyJet and €400 on Joon for a roudtrip Friday/Sunday.

Although I'm sure lots of passengers paid the advertised fare of €39 one-way by booking way ahead, I would have thought they would have made an effort for the lauch weekend. They're getting bad press because of that today on the news here in France.

Fares 3 months away seem to be in line with competition, though.

persiangulf93 · Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:52 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
luchtzak wrote:
Millennials flying to Tehran ?

My thoughts exactly - this targeting young people is a load of crap. It is clear they are putting Joon on flights that are low yielding or non business - looks like CAI and THR fit into on of those categories.

Paris - Tehran flights are most of the time pretty much filled! What are you talking about? If demand was that low - AF wouldn't send A330/A340's on that route. Currently Mahan Air, Iran Air and AF fly from Paris to IKA.

persiangulf93 · Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:54 pm

luchtzak wrote:
persiangulf93 wrote:
luchtzak wrote:
Millennials flying to Tehran ?

Iran has become a hotspot for backpackers and people that like to visit historical sites of ancient Persia.

So the female flight attendants are allowed to enter Iran in that outfit ?

They will enter Iran, just as those of AF, KLM, Lufthansa and etc. do.

grjplanes · Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:25 pm

So out of those CPT will be the longest route...with what aircraft will this be served then, and what capacity difference would it make to what it used to be.
AF operated 3 weekly A332 CDG-CPT for S17
For the current season W17/18 AF increased CPT to 5 weekly with 772...will Joon be in a similar position to increase frequency on the route during CPT's busier season...or will AF rather do that, and Joon only the quiet season?

goldorak · Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:55 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
So does Joon do connections? Can I connect on a Joon flight from Istanbul to Marrakech via Paris?

Yes. All flights are exclusively marketed under AF code.

bsbisland · Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:21 pm

AwysBSB wrote:
JN at GIG would be beautiful, but first they need to have 77W in their fleet.

Beautiful for whom?

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