LTenEleven
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Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:43 pm

Ryanair has applied for slots to base 9 aircraft at Berlin Tegel from summer 2018 in addition to the 9 Ryanair aircraft based at Berlin Schonefeld.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/ryanair- ... KF9N1I6009
 
runway23
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:07 pm

Are there really any interesting slots left once easyjet start in TXL ?

Surely the airport in more need of competition is DUS.

This might be FR blowing smoke once again.
 
bennett123
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:07 am

Have they sorted their crewing issues?.
 
Eitilt
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:37 am

Perhaps Ryanair have to appear to be trying to set up a Berlin base in order to attract any Air Berlin
pilots into Ryanair.
 
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albertocsc
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:43 am

Eitilt wrote:
Perhaps Ryanair have to appear to be trying to set up a Berlin base in order to attract any Air Berlin
pilots into Ryanair.


SXF is already a base
 
f4f3a
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:10 am

I imagine he is hoping that either the deal with lh will be blocked or at least lh will have to surrender routes which Ryanair can bid for .
 
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CARST
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:04 am

f4f3a wrote:
I imagine he is hoping that either the deal with lh will be blocked or at least lh will have to surrender routes which Ryanair can bid for .


That would be my guess, too. And I hope FR has success with that plan. LH and EW are dominating the German speaking market now. More than ever before. They commend the prices and don't have any competition.

The whole bankruptcy of AB was such a bodged process, German politics and LHs management made a very bad deal there for all the people living in Germany, Austria and Switzerland.
 
leghorn
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:12 am

Ryanair have no fear of Easyjet. They can undercut them on any route due to their lower cost per seat. Invisible barriers to trade are more of a worry for Ryanair.
 
steman
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:32 am

leghorn wrote:
Ryanair have no fear of Easyjet. They can undercut them on any route due to their lower cost per seat. Invisible barriers to trade are more of a worry for Ryanair.


I´m afraid that is true. And easyjet, who still has to start ops in TXL might retreat from routes where FR competes. It happend in SXF already when FR opened the route to Rome (albeit to CIA instead of FCO), easyjet closed it.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:55 am

This is good news! Certainly now that Scoot has announced Berlin as a destination which will most likely be Tegel. Lots of people will self-transfer between Scoot and Ryanair.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:57 am

Not too long ago Eindhoven - Berlin was the "unserved route of the week" at Anna.aero.

http://www.anna.aero/2017/08/23/eindhov ... operation/

Would make sense for Ryanair to make Eindhoven one of their destinations from their new Tegel base.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:00 am

runway23 wrote:
Are there really any interesting slots left once easyjet start in TXL ?

Surely the airport in more need of competition is DUS.

This might be FR blowing smoke once again.


They're already using Weeze as their Dusseldorf airport. No need to fly into Dusseldorf international as Weeze still has plenty of capacity.
 
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TOGA10
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:33 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
runway23 wrote:
Are there really any interesting slots left once easyjet start in TXL ?

Surely the airport in more need of competition is DUS.

This might be FR blowing smoke once again.


They're already using Weeze as their Dusseldorf airport. No need to fly into Dusseldorf international as Weeze still has plenty of capacity.

Yes that is all correct, but Weeze is still 80km away from Düsseldorf. It's like saying Eindhoven is good enough as a replacement for AMS.
I see your point and FR has definitely proven that Weeze works as a cheap alternative, but I think there is still a big catchment area south of DUS which is not served from Weeze.
Love flying, hate the alarm at 3 in the morning, love watching the sun rise at 5:30. It's all about compromises.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:40 am

TOGA10 wrote:
Yes that is all correct, but Weeze is still 80km away from Düsseldorf. It's like saying Eindhoven is good enough as a replacement for AMS.
I see your point and FR has definitely proven that Weeze works as a cheap alternative, but I think there is still a big catchment area south of DUS which is not served from Weeze.


But the area south of Dusseldorf is served by Cologne-Bonn which is also a Ryanair base. East of Dusseldorf there's Dortmund, another Ryanair base. That makes the Dusseldorf area very well served even without serving the main airport.

Berlin is very different since except for the two Berlin airports there aren't any alternatives in the region. Anyone flying to Berlin must use these airports, there's no way around it. In Dusseldorf there's plenty of ways around it.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:01 am

Great News for German traveller.
 
LTenEleven
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:54 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:

Berlin is very different since except for the two Berlin airports there aren't any alternatives in the region. Anyone flying to Berlin must use these airports, there's no way around it. In Dusseldorf there's plenty of ways around it.


Dortmund is not a Ryanair base.

I would not be surprised to see Ryanair start flights from DUS sooner rather than later.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:25 pm

LTenEleven wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:

Berlin is very different since except for the two Berlin airports there aren't any alternatives in the region. Anyone flying to Berlin must use these airports, there's no way around it. In Dusseldorf there's plenty of ways around it.


Dortmund is not a Ryanair base.

I would not be surprised to see Ryanair start flights from DUS sooner rather than later.



Perhaps no base, but Ryanair offers flights to 6 destinations from DTM.
 
PanHAM
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:51 am

Why doesn't that surprise me? LH paid 210 Mio, U2 paid 40 Mio and FR pays nothng to pick up some pieces from broken AB. They should get Slots, but between 9 and 11 pm. Outbound.
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Delta777Jet
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:33 am

PanHam: so far only the tax payer forked out hundreds of millions in financial aid and social system payments to pay employees their salary. As long the EU not approve the deal no money has and will be paid.
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PanHAM
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:13 pm

We had this discussio before, the tax payer is not involved at all. The AB credit Comes from a Bank which is owned by the Federal Republic but not tax funded. The AB Receivers have to allocate re-payments from the so far 250 Mio € with 10% interest and a 1 Million € handling fee.
However, should the Airlines, LH and U2 walk away from the deal because the EU, than the Receivers might have a Problem. MOL Shows how it works, simply ick up the Slots for free. The EU can do Little about it, they are the ones who possibly break the continuity, LH and U2 pay exactly for that, continuity. Besides that there is no infrastructure left.AB did not own a single aircraft and no one can be denied to buy or lease aircraft which are on the market.
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HHScot
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:32 pm

PanHAM wrote:
We had this discussion before, the tax payer is not involved at all.


This is quite incorrect. The KfW Bank supported the deal and is owned by the state and regions. While it may be run commercially, it would have an impact on state and local government finances if things had gone bad and they had lost money on the deal. Luckily it didn't, and no doubt you'll counter that it even made a profit. Be that as it may, it does not distract from the fact that the state was indirectly involved in the deal. In short this whole thing is not whiter than white!
 
PanHAM
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:57 pm

HHScot wrote:
PanHAM wrote:
We had this discussion before, the tax payer is not involved at all.


This is quite incorrect. The KfW Bank supported the deal and is owned by the state and regions. While it may be run commercially, it would have an impact on state and local government finances if things had gone bad and they had lost money on the deal. Luckily it didn't, and no doubt you'll counter that it even made a profit. Be that as it may, it does not distract from the fact that the state was indirectly involved in the deal. In short this whole thing is not whiter than white!


I said that the deal is not funded by tax monies. Even if the estate of Air Berlin Defaults on the loan, KfW could easily afford to write the amount off without even touching the reserves.
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steman
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:35 pm

PanHAM wrote:
Why doesn't that surprise me? LH paid 210 Mio, U2 paid 40 Mio and FR pays nothng to pick up some pieces from broken AB. They should get Slots, but between 9 and 11 pm. Outbound.


It doesn´t surprise me mostly because FR never made a secret of wanting to get slots at TXL even before the air berline demise. They were big promoter of keeping TXL open during the referendum, even though they have never operated from it.
As for slots between 9 and 11 pm, I don´t think they really care about that. And most of the passengers don´t care either, as long as they can fly return with less than 60 €.
 
Delta777Jet
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:39 pm

PanHam: Kfw is a state owned bank. Their profits go into the budget, if they need to write off such an amount it will reduce their earnings and therefore harm the taxpayer. For example if you decide not to pay tax, the German government would not go bancrupt but certainly would have less income. If everyone would do this, well then may be.

So it might be that you need to pay more tax next year because the Kfw did not make enough profit this year because of too many write offs.

So yes, even if the money not comes directly from the Bundesrepublik of Germany it comes from a bank owned by the Bundesrepublik which is acting on behalf of politicians deciding where to throw money at.
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PanHAM
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:23 am

@Delta777jet KfW is self sustainable. Their businesss volume in 2015 was 503 Billion €. As said, even if the estate of AB would Default on the loan, it would not even put a dent into the Banks Business. No one would ntice and the Bundestag would not have to call an emergency session to raise taxes..This loan is not tax funded..
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seahawk
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:07 am

It is because if the money is lost the results of the KfW will be worse and the bank will transfer less money to the government, which has to be replaced by tax money. The whole deal should never have been allowed. I hope the EU will tear it to shreds.
 
Tvilum
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:04 am

seahawk wrote:
It is because if the money is lost the results of the KfW will be worse and the bank will transfer less money to the government, which has to be replaced by tax money.


Well, you can say that about every loan KfW gives then.
 
r2rho
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:38 pm

This, together with U2, will fill the AB hole and solve the competition issues in Berlin. Now, if somebody could make LH give up some slots at MUC, DUS, VIE and ZRH so that competition could move in... the way they are raping German consumers and businesses right now is outrageous. Is a national champion really worth this harm to the rest of the German economy?
 
HHScot
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:28 pm

Delta777Jet wrote:
PanHam: Kfw is a state owned bank. Their profits go into the budget, if they need to write off such an amount it will reduce their earnings and therefore harm the taxpayer. For example if you decide not to pay tax, the German government would not go bancrupt but certainly would have less income. If everyone would do this, well then may be.

So it might be that you need to pay more tax next year because the Kfw did not make enough profit this year because of too many write offs.

So yes, even if the money not comes directly from the Bundesrepublik of Germany it comes from a bank owned by the Bundesrepublik which is acting on behalf of politicians deciding where to throw money at.



Well said. Sadly certain people here won't let these facts in in the way of their own opinions!
 
PanHAM
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:34 am

Simple. Air Berlin Fails and the procedure to pick up the pieces starts in an orderly Fashion. LH and u2 follow the rules and bid, together with others for routex, Slots and aircraft. Others follow but the two carriers mentioned win and are invited to proceed in the process.
Except Ryanair, who suddenly come around the Corner behind which they have been hiding. Rules? What are ruöes, rules may apply for others, not for MOL. regardless if it is the bidding for pieces of a defunct carrier or the trreatment of their own employees. That does not hurt LH that much, but it hurts U2 much more. They invest properly while we can look Forward to the usuaöy MOL BS claiming that they are investing 900 Million at TXL by stationing 9 737s there. They never paid Boeing 100 Million for a new 737 and we all know that-
My remark about the Slots was sarcastic, why do you have a Problem with that? One more Thing, don't call me "Boy", Massa. I'm too old for that.
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eicvd
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:22 pm

PanHAM wrote:
Simple. Air Berlin Fails and the procedure to pick up the pieces starts in an orderly Fashion. LH and u2 follow the rules and bid, together with others for routex, Slots and aircraft. Others follow but the two carriers mentioned win and are invited to proceed in the process.
Except Ryanair, who suddenly come around the Corner behind which they have been hiding. Rules? What are ruöes, rules may apply for others, not for MOL. regardless if it is the bidding for pieces of a defunct carrier or the trreatment of their own employees. That does not hurt LH that much, but it hurts U2 much more. They invest properly while we can look Forward to the usuaöy MOL BS claiming that they are investing 900 Million at TXL by stationing 9 737s there. They never paid Boeing 100 Million for a new 737 and we all know that-
My remark about the Slots was sarcastic, why do you have a Problem with that? One more Thing, don't call me "Boy", Massa. I'm too old for that.

Now are FR doing anything illegal here? If not then isn’t that just being business savvy? They don’t constantly make a profit for no reason!
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PanHAM
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:30 pm

No, of course not and MOL never knew anything about Business ethics anyway They simply screw everyone. Cockpit Crew, cabin Crew, handling agents and passengers. Competetors and that list is far from completel
Profits are essential in Business and not only there. I wish them good luck in Germany. I doubt that their Business model will hold up here. They should look up the word "Scheinselbstaendigkeit" in the dictionary.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
ExDubai
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:19 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Have they sorted their crewing issues?.


Nope, and it looks like MoL has to deal in the future with VC when it comes to FR pilots based in Germany.
A Webcam during their negotiations would be nice.... :lol:

Edit: It looks like the Portugese pilots are moving first....
https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2017/1205 ... -portugal/
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:15 pm

PanHAM wrote:
No, of course not and MOL never knew anything about Business ethics anyway They simply screw everyone. Cockpit Crew, cabin Crew, handling agents and passengers. Competetors and that list is far from completel
Profits are essential in Business and not only there. I wish them good luck in Germany. I doubt that their Business model will hold up here. They should look up the word "Scheinselbstaendigkeit" in the dictionary.


They have ever operated in Germany for many years and now have 10 German bases.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
LTenEleven
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:32 pm

More from Ryanair. The latest is that they would base a total of 10 aircraft at FRA, MUC, DUS and TXL if they get the slots:
https://de.reuters.com/article/ryanair- ... EKBN1E12LM
 
Delta777Jet
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:28 pm

PanHAM wrote:
Simple. Air Berlin Fails and the procedure to pick up the pieces starts in an orderly Fashion. LH and u2 follow the rules and bid, together with others for routex, Slots and aircraft. Others follow but the two carriers mentioned win and are invited to proceed in the process.
Except Ryanair, who suddenly come around the Corner behind which they have been hiding. Rules? What are ruöes, rules may apply for others, not for MOL. regardless if it is the bidding for pieces of a defunct carrier or the trreatment of their own employees.


Listen, the rules that slots and routes cant be traded in Germany is the law of Germany not the law of Ryanair. If the process would be anywhere to fair, you would see that slots get allocated according to law after Air Berlin failed. Instead we saw a shady government deal with Lufthansa and to make it work they also invited Easyjet.

Also the government loan is not paid back as of yet since the deal is pending EU regulators approval.
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tommy1808
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:12 am

CARST wrote:
The whole bankruptcy of AB was such a bodged process, German politics and LHs management made a very bad deal there for all the people living in Germany, Austria and Switzerland.


That nonsense again.... any others European airline could have bought air Berlin, and they didn't want to cough up the money.
Considering that Lufthansa gets AB at a bargain price, the value of being in that market is close to zero. Not surprising considering that AB bleed 9 cents on each Euro turnover.
Trying to block the transaction is simply a missuse of law to harass a competitor and pick up some free cake, aka some of the few slots that are actually valuable. Instead of paying their owners for them, they try to have government agencies steal them for them.

Best regards
Thomas
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tommy1808
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:24 am

Delta777Jet wrote:
Instead we saw a shady government deal with Lufthansa and to make it work they also invited Easyjet.


Just because you don't like a deal, it doesn't make it shady. Giving bridging loans to companies in insolvency is normal when there is a chance of continued operations under a new owner. This is in accordance with EU regulations.

Ryanair simple decided they can get for, hopefully, free what EZ and LH are willing to pay for by sueing. That is shady.

Best regards
Thomas
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CARST
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:38 am

tommy1808 wrote:
CARST wrote:
The whole bankruptcy of AB was such a bodged process, German politics and LHs management made a very bad deal there for all the people living in Germany, Austria and Switzerland.


That nonsense again.... any others European airline could have bought air Berlin, and they didn't want to cough up the money.
Considering that Lufthansa gets AB at a bargain price, the value of being in that market is close to zero. Not surprising considering that AB bleed 9 cents on each Euro turnover.
Trying to block the transaction is simply a missuse of law to harass a competitor and pick up some free cake, aka some of the few slots that are actually valuable. Instead of paying their owners for them, they try to have government agencies steal them for them.

Best regards
Thomas


That’s a nice LH-brainwashed view of the matter. The price paid is totally irrelevant if the deal is considered anti-competitive and has negative effects on the consumer and thus the economy.


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Delta777Jet
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:58 am

Why Ryanair, Niki and the other interested buyers did not have a realistic chance to purchase parts of Air Berlin ? LH had months to prepare itself for this situation and could plan in detail. Tommy1808, bridging loan is fine, but in this case it's not that the great Air Berlin continue to fly under different ownership. This was the bridge to organise the market monopoly. Lots of customers lost their money for not flown tickets, lots of employees lost their jobs. If the slots would have just gone to the open market, many players could have taken them up immediately and have filled the gap. That would be the normal law of the markets without government interference.
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PanHAM
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:03 am

Fact is, that nobody ants to enter the competition to pick up the shambles. Except LH and U2. IAG just backed off which leaves LH in the delicate Situation to pull out of the deal on Dec 21, 2hould the EU not decide in their favor................., which would result in LH backing out supporting Niki and LGW with 10 mio per week. Of course that would put LH out as a prime target for bashing, especially when 60K passengers are left out stranded and the government backed deal would go sour as well.
In the real world, should that happen, the EU would be the only ones to take the blame, but few People live in the real world.
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tommy1808
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Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:29 am

CARST wrote:
That’s a nice LH-brainwashed view of the matter. The price paid is totally irrelevant if the deal is considered anti-competitive and has negative effects on the consumer and thus the economy.


The market has decided, alone, who gets to buy AB in pretty much an auction, since they have to recover the most value for ABs creditors.
Overruling market decisions is considered anti-competitive and has negative effects on the consumer and thus the economy. This is not some merger, discussed behind closed doors. This is not LH being the only one having the money to buy AB.

Delta777Jet wrote:
Why Ryanair, Niki and the other interested buyers did not have a realistic chance to purchase parts of Air Berlin ? LH had months to prepare itself for this situation and could plan in detail.


Aha... you got some evidence for that conspiracy theory? Some prosecutors may be interested, since AB and LH are both public listed companies, back room dealing like that and using prior insider knowledge would be illegal after all.

Best regards
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CARST
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Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:00 pm

Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:55 am

tommy1808 wrote:
The market has decided, alone, who gets to buy AB in pretty much an auction, since they have to recover the most value for ABs creditors.
Overruling market decisions is considered anti-competitive and has negative effects on the consumer and thus the economy. This is not some merger, discussed behind closed doors. This is not LH being the only one having the money to buy AB.

Delta777Jet wrote:
Why Ryanair, Niki and the other interested buyers did not have a realistic chance to purchase parts of Air Berlin ? LH had months to prepare itself for this situation and could plan in detail.


Aha... you got some evidence for that conspiracy theory? Some prosecutors may be interested, since AB and LH are both public listed companies, back room dealing like that and using prior insider knowledge would be illegal after all.


You so lost the plot...

April 28th, 2017, Merkel and Winkelmann visit Abu Dhabi and also is in talks with Etihad about a "solution for AirBerlin":
English: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -to-record
English: http://www.aviationbusinessme.com/airli ... 30/439034/
German: http://www.airliners.de/merkel-abu-dhabi/41269

May 5th, 2017, LH confirms talks with Abu Dhabi over future of Air Berlin (read: buying them):
English: http://www.dw.com/en/lufthansa-confirms ... a-38728787

August 15th, 2017, AB files for insolvency:
English: https://www.ft.com/content/83165178-81b ... b903247afd

August 16th, 2017, German government has already decided Lufthansa gets first say on AB asset sale, before other airlines had a chance to make a bid:
English: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-air- ... SKCN1AX0EZ

August 17th, 2017, Bridgeloan granted to finalise talks with potential buyers
English: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/air- ... -6skz7cwsg

August 17th, 2017, Creditors to AB are only in talks with Lufthansa (one day after the filing for insolvency that is):
German: https://www.berliner-kurier.de/news/pan ... n-28454544

August 17th, 2017, German transport minister "We need a German champion for the air transport market, LH has to take over AB.":
German: http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/u ... 55390.html

October 12th, 2017, LH buys half of AB:
English: https://www.ft.com/content/f5771bc4-af3 ... aa44b1e130


If you don't see the connection here, you are either blind or ignorant...
 
User avatar
LTU330
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:40 pm

Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:32 am

It’s all been a stitch up in the end. LH lobbied the Authorities to ban codeshares between AB and EY, yet eventually ended up having a cosy relationship with EY themselves. It was pretty clear that when Merkel and Spohr visited the UAE that it was going to be the end of AB. The fact that EY then publicly announced ongoing support for AB until at least the end of 2018, even after the worst financial results ever, was most likely agreed with LH and the German Government just to keep AB operating until all the pieces could be put in place for the time when EY suddenly pulled the plug and LH became the only Airline ready to take over. Well done everyone. I still hope FR get some slots and I hope that they give their Staff a decent contract, and therefore charge normal fares, although that will upset the LCC warriors on here.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 11372
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:16 am

CARST wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
The market has decided, alone, who gets to buy AB in pretty much an auction, since they have to recover the most value for ABs creditors.
Overruling market decisions is considered anti-competitive and has negative effects on the consumer and thus the economy. This is not some merger, discussed behind closed doors. This is not LH being the only one having the money to buy AB.

Delta777Jet wrote:
Why Ryanair, Niki and the other interested buyers did not have a realistic chance to purchase parts of Air Berlin ? LH had months to prepare itself for this situation and could plan in detail.


Aha... you got some evidence for that conspiracy theory? Some prosecutors may be interested, since AB and LH are both public listed companies, back room dealing like that and using prior insider knowledge would be illegal after all.


You so lost the plot...

April 28th, 2017, Merkel and Winkelmann visit Abu Dhabi and also is in talks with Etihad about a "solution for AirBerlin":
English: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -to-record
English: http://www.aviationbusinessme.com/airli ... 30/439034/
German: http://www.airliners.de/merkel-abu-dhabi/41269

May 5th, 2017, LH confirms talks with Abu Dhabi over future of Air Berlin (read: buying them):
English: http://www.dw.com/en/lufthansa-confirms ... a-38728787

August 15th, 2017, AB files for insolvency:
English: https://www.ft.com/content/83165178-81b ... b903247afd

August 16th, 2017, German government has already decided Lufthansa gets first say on AB asset sale, before other airlines had a chance to make a bid:
English: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-air- ... SKCN1AX0EZ

August 17th, 2017, Bridgeloan granted to finalise talks with potential buyers
English: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/air- ... -6skz7cwsg

August 17th, 2017, Creditors to AB are only in talks with Lufthansa (one day after the filing for insolvency that is):
German: https://www.berliner-kurier.de/news/pan ... n-28454544

August 17th, 2017, German transport minister "We need a German champion for the air transport market, LH has to take over AB.":
German: http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/u ... 55390.html

October 12th, 2017, LH buys half of AB:
English: https://www.ft.com/content/f5771bc4-af3 ... aa44b1e130


If you don't see the connection here, you are either blind or ignorant...


So everything was perfect public, transparent and any other airline could have swooped in early too.

Your conspiracy theory is even self-debunking. Why exactly would the Abu Dhabi government facilitate a back room deal to hand AB to a direct EY competitor LH while strengthening their position in its home market? And not to EZ or FR, with close to zero long haul ambitions, that would weaken a competitors home market position?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-air-berlin-lufthansa-talks/germanys-lufthansa-gets-first-say-on-air-berlin-asset-sale-union-idUSKCN1AX0EZ


The article not just does not say what you claim it does, it also states the preliminary talks have been held with three interested parties. Lufthansa only got the first round of serious talks. Someone had to be first, and there is no indication that anyone else but AB/its creditors decided that order.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 8955
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:25 am

The EU just needs to extend the process by 90 workdays for LH to drop out, it is really easy to solve. Then the slots default back to the authorities and every airline can apply with airlines new to the airport always getting first choice. If it works out well we can see FR and Vueling instead of LH dominated Eurowings. It would be nice. Better service for lower prices.
 
User avatar
CARST
Posts: 1549
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:00 pm

Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:38 am

tommy1808 wrote:
So everything was perfect public, transparent and any other airline could have swooped in early too.


The deal was not transparent at all. Which airlines were invited to visit Abu Dhabi together with Mrs. Merkel? Only LH.

And which airline made a deal before the visit to Abu Dhabi already with EY? LH... see below!

tommy1808 wrote:
Your conspiracy theory is even self-debunking. Why exactly would the Abu Dhabi government facilitate a back room deal to hand AB to a direct EY competitor LH while strengthening their position in its home market? And not to EZ or FR, with close to zero long haul ambitions, that would weaken a competitors home market position?


The Abu Dhabi government or EY (it's the same anyway) had a reason to make a deal with LH and the German government. Because shortly before that visit to Abu Dhabi LH annouced a large code-sharing deal with EY.

So what was the deal? EY will let AB fail and in return gets a code-share deal on LH. And the customers? Lost one airline option. The online other airline option in the German speaking market actually.

Advantage LH? AB is out of the way. Advantage EY? Still get feed from Germany, but no more reason to finance loss-making AB.

tommy1808 wrote:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-air-berlin-lufthansa-talks/germanys-lufthansa-gets-first-say-on-air-berlin-asset-sale-union-idUSKCN1AX0EZ


The article not just does not say what you claim it does, it also states the preliminary talks have been held with three interested parties. Lufthansa only got the first round of serious talks. Someone had to be first, and there is no indication that anyone else but AB/its creditors decided that order.



You can't even be serious now. This article was written ONE day after AB annouced their bankrupty.

And if you remember this wasn't planned a long time ahead for AB. EY in April 2017 guaranted to finance AB for another 18 month (till the end of 2018), so AB could finish their restructuring. On August 14th apparently out of nowhere for the AB management EY told them "we will stop financing you". Thus declared insolvency on August 15th and directly called the German government that they will have to stop operatings in four weeks if they don't get a bridging loan.

So if this all came out of nowhere, how could have other airlines even made an offer for AB? They could just claim "here I am, we want to make an offer, too". But because everyone at EY, LH and the German government knew about what was coming, they tried to position LH as the "only possible buyer" from the beginning. Exactly on September 16th and 17th in multiple statements, ONE and TWO days after the declaration of insolvency.

This isn't made up or fake news or conspiracy theory. These are facts which we have in front of us. You must be stupid not to see them.
 
Galwayman
Posts: 762
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:20 am

Re: Ryanair Applies For Slots To Base 9 Aircraft At Berlin Tegel

Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:40 am

Great to see FR at TXL , they'll keep LH honest and Easy will run away soon enough when the duopoly fares start falling

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