A333fan
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Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:35 pm

Hey everyone, I am curious to know whether the Indian operations are profitable for United Airlines or not.
I know United Airlines offers 1 Daily flight each to Bombay and Delhi from Newark...
Are they really profitable operating them on B777200ERs...
And Did American Airlines ever operated flights to India?..And if so which aircraft they used???
Last edited by atcsundevil on Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Clarified title
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Is Indian operations Feasible for United Airlines?

Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:15 pm

AA flew DEL-ORD on a 777.

CO/UA have been running those flights for a long time. If they weren’t profitable, they likely would have reduced service. EWR-DEL is well within the range of the 777-200ER. EWR-BOM is closer to the maximum range, but both routes are shorter than EWR-HKG, which I believe is the longest 777-200ER route.
 
TryToFlySomeday
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Re: Is Indian operations Feasible for United Airlines?

Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:26 pm

EWR-DEL isnt operating anymore due to UA’s concerns over Delhi’s air quality. EWR-BOM still flies
Pakistan's aviation sector is coming back. It won't be as strong as our eastern neighbor, nowhere close, but it's going to grow over time. Stand by and watch.

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United1
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Re: Is Indian operations Feasible for United Airlines?

Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:59 pm

TryToFlySomeday wrote:
EWR-DEL isnt operating anymore due to UA’s concerns over Delhi’s air quality. EWR-BOM still flies


EWR-DEL is very much still flying....UA only suspended the route for a few days until the air quality improved a bit.
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B737900ER
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Re: Is Indian operations Feasible for United Airlines?

Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:00 am

TryToFlySomeday wrote:
EWR-DEL isnt operating anymore due to UA’s concerns over Delhi’s air quality. EWR-BOM still flies

EWR-DEL is certainly operating.

UA has been flying the routes for a decade. I think that should give you some evidence that UA is satisfied with their financial performance
 
TryToFlySomeday
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Re: Is Indian operations Feasible for United Airlines?

Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:01 am

Oh really? My apologies.
Pakistan's aviation sector is coming back. It won't be as strong as our eastern neighbor, nowhere close, but it's going to grow over time. Stand by and watch.

Born to Pakistani parents near ORD; raised and based near ORD.
 
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globetrotter94
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Re: Is Indian operations Feasible for United Airlines?

Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:10 am

TryToFlySomeday wrote:
EWR-DEL isnt operating anymore due to UA’s concerns over Delhi’s air quality. EWR-BOM still flies


If I remember correctly, they literally only cancelled the flight for 1 day--and that was more due to the effect of air quality on visibility, rather than on health itself.
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Irehdna
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Re: Is Indian operations Feasible for United Airlines?

Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:38 am

globetrotter94 wrote:
TryToFlySomeday wrote:
EWR-DEL isnt operating anymore due to UA’s concerns over Delhi’s air quality. EWR-BOM still flies


If I remember correctly, they literally only cancelled the flight for 1 day--and that was more due to the effect of air quality on visibility, rather than on health itself.


It was for 3-4 days I think.

AFAIK both routes are doing very well. BOM-EWR may not fill all seats because it is a very long flight (16h15min scheduled time IIRC). UA does much better on India-EWR nonstop than AI, and I wouldn't be surprised if AI would cancel EWR nonstop before UA even thinking about it (especially given the purported privatisation).

IMO ORD-BOM needs a nonstop. It would be wise for UA to maintain its EWR presence for TATL ULH, and AI could consider shifting operations to ORD more (where they already have the DEL flight).
 
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adamblang
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:49 am

United's revenue managers and route planners are no dummies. If the routes weren't making money, they'd cancel the routes and use the planes somewhere else.

With 16 hour flights, you could get four European or three South American routes in using the aircraft deployed to India. Looking at that opportunity cost, I imagine the India routes are not only profitable but very much so.
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Rajahdhani
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:44 am

...and then add on AI’s hubs and connectivity at both DEL and BOM. AI’s recent expansion to the U.S., consider that AI chose to consolidate their expansions to UA hubs. ULH is always inherently higher risk, yet considering the longevity of the route, something has to be working and well enough to survive a major merger.

The 777’s age here is the benefit of a lower operating cost, and with fuel at this low, the 777s is the right plane for the job. In future, the 787 might do quite well. If AI can manage to increase yields, and demonstrate to UA that entering into a JV {especially with LH, in the vein of the 9W+AF/KL+DL(VS)}, then perhaps we may yet see UA add IAH, and/or up to 77W for peak demand).
 
voxkel
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:53 am

A close friend of mine had to book a flight to BOM at the last minute. He had to do UA.

AI EWR-BOM and AC YYZ-BOM are both sold out. However UA EWR-BOM has ~50 open seats.

Definitely contradicts my prior assumption that AI wasn't well suited for EWR nonstop. I would imagine nearly all O/D use AI from EWR due to better timings and slightly better service. Most of the UA traffic came from connecting passengers, and now AC provides a better 2-stop option from 2nd tier US cities to BOM. (AC has either 77L or 789, both of which are good hard products.)

Now granted this is only one weekend, but it seems that UA is starting to be squeesed out of the market by AC (connecting passengers) and AI (O/D). I'm not sure about the DEL route, but I'm interested in how long BOM will last, at least daily on the 77E.
 
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:36 am

voxkel wrote:
A close friend of mine had to book a flight to BOM at the last minute. He had to do UA.

AI EWR-BOM and AC YYZ-BOM are both sold out. However UA EWR-BOM has ~50 open seats.

Definitely contradicts my prior assumption that AI wasn't well suited for EWR nonstop. I would imagine nearly all O/D use AI from EWR due to better timings and slightly better service. Most of the UA traffic came from connecting passengers, and now AC provides a better 2-stop option from 2nd tier US cities to BOM. (AC has either 77L or 789, both of which are good hard products.)

Now granted this is only one weekend, but it seems that UA is starting to be squeesed out of the market by AC (connecting passengers) and AI (O/D). I'm not sure about the DEL route, but I'm interested in how long BOM will last, at least daily on the 77E.


AI better service? I know UA is no SIngapore Air or Cathay, but they certainly had a far superior product than AI in my experience on the two airlines. I just flew AIfrom HKG-ICN, it was one of the worst flights I have ever had. The seats, although brand new (787), were absolutely disgusting. The food tasted and looked like baby vomit. And the bathrooms were appalling. Somehow, human fecal matter, to put it nicely, made it's way onto the rim of the toilet. It was almost as if someone had stood on top of the toilet in a squatting position and just let the toilet have it. And the flight crew just left it. This was in business on a three hour flight. I'd hate to see them on a 16hr flight.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:56 am

voxkel wrote:
A close friend of mine had to book a flight to BOM at the last minute. He had to do UA.

AI EWR-BOM and AC YYZ-BOM are both sold out. However UA EWR-BOM has ~50 open seats.

Definitely contradicts my prior assumption that AI wasn't well suited for EWR nonstop. I would imagine nearly all O/D use AI from EWR due to better timings and slightly better service. Most of the UA traffic came from connecting passengers, and now AC provides a better 2-stop option from 2nd tier US cities to BOM. (AC has either 77L or 789, both of which are good hard products.)

Now granted this is only one weekend, but it seems that UA is starting to be squeesed out of the market by AC (connecting passengers) and AI (O/D). I'm not sure about the DEL route, but I'm interested in how long BOM will last, at least daily on the 77E.


Your one random friend’s experience evaluating notoriously unreliable seat maps does not constitute a trend.
 
sbaflyer
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:15 am

voxkel wrote:
A close friend of mine had to book a flight to BOM at the last minute. He had to do UA.

AI EWR-BOM and AC YYZ-BOM are both sold out. However UA EWR-BOM has ~50 open seats.

Definitely contradicts my prior assumption that AI wasn't well suited for EWR nonstop. I would imagine nearly all O/D use AI from EWR due to better timings and slightly better service. Most of the UA traffic came from connecting passengers, and now AC provides a better 2-stop option from 2nd tier US cities to BOM. (AC has either 77L or 789, both of which are good hard products.)

Now granted this is only one weekend, but it seems that UA is starting to be squeesed out of the market by AC (connecting passengers) and AI (O/D). I'm not sure about the DEL route, but I'm interested in how long BOM will last, at least daily on the 77E.


1. One weekend tells you nothing as you acknowledged
2. AI and AC may have full flights, but doesn't mean they are making more money esp if UA can earn a revenue premium.
3. UA is perfectly suited to both connections through EWR and O/D. Only negative is they don't allow connections from BOM or DEL
4. If we are talking anecdotes, I have an uncle who routinely pays a premium to fly UA nonstop to India because he feels AI is less reliable and professional. He says his UA flights are always packed.
 
airzona11
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:58 am

UA has a lot of feed at EWR too from places such as SFO that has Indian bound traffic, and not just VFR but the business traffic. VFR has many options but UA has a decent amount of corporate contracts. Plus, the 772ER is not an inefficient bird, the 16-hour stage length is near a sweet spot, sure there are newer (more expensive) more efficient frames, but 772s are still great birds.
 
Varsity1
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:34 am

AI better service than UA. :lol:

Needed that laugh. At least with UA the plane is clean of bodily fluids.
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:41 am

When the B772s (ex-CO) are densified, what are the odds that EWR-BOM shifts to a B789, since the B772 is already at the edge of its range? (I can already figure that EWR-HKG will have to go to a B77W or a B789.)
 
mattnrsa
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:19 am

United has shown its willingness to exit unprofitable markets. If both DEL and BOM are still being operated it is because they’re profitable. The power of the EWR hub helps to bolster the flight and the relatively recent addition of AI to Star Alliance should make the flight even stronger.

Are the India routes covered in the AC/UA JV?
 
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VarunSolanki747
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:10 am

Dont know if United is getting profits or not, but even if United wanted to remove the route, it cannot, because this route is not seasonal type route. Its always full. Apparently it is so full, that captain has to leave 2-3 containers behind sometimes in order not to cross MTOW, since its a 200ER. (info from a worker).

On the UAL vs AIC topic
I think none of the airlines are above each other.
1) Both airlines are mocked by people
2) Both airlines are SA Members
3) Both airlines have same fleet members
4) Both airlines provide great food (sarcastic tone available)
5) Both airlines provide great legroom at least
6) Both airlines have a fair share of aviation mistakes
7) Both airlines have great staff (sarcastic tone available)

The questionable part to me is, everytime I fly, I dont have any problems, idk from where people find mistakes in airlines.
And if you want to know how great AIC food is then fly a domestic flight. Same goes for UAL.

But let me tell you something, these airlines are the real airlines, Not those three musketeers of Middle east. To kiddos, dont get offended, its my point of view.
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TWA772LR
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:46 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
When the B772s (ex-CO) are densified, what are the odds that EWR-BOM shifts to a B789, since the B772 is already at the edge of its range? (I can already figure that EWR-HKG will have to go to a B77W or a B789.)

I can see India going 77W also.
When wasn't America great?


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Nimish
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:58 am

I quite like the outbound BOM-EWR flight - as I can get a good connection from BLR to BOM and on to EWR-IAH on UA. The return is a bitch as the layover is overnight at BOM- which I refuse to do. Most of the UA flights on the EWR/BOM/DEL sectors I've flown have been full. The bummer with these flights is that UA still insists on booking the Indian domestic sectors on 9W instead of AI - even worse now that 9W/ DL/ AFKL have formed their own cozy circle. The 3-3-3 seating on the 772 is welcome, as is the Y+ seating, and much preferred over AI's 3-3-3 on the 787 or the 3-4-3 on the 77W. Once UA move this route to a 3-4-3 on a 777, it will not be as pleasant a flight as it is right now. The Goose IPA served on board more than makes up for some of the inconveniences of flying UA. About this route making money - as multiple folks have mentioned, UA's bean counters would pull these routes in a minute if they were not performing well. UA already has JV metal neutral partners like LH/ LX/ OS etc. that they can use to route India bound pax, so they know the score very well.
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kennyomg
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:24 am

voxkel wrote:
Now granted this is only one weekend, but it seems that UA is starting to be squeesed out of the market by AC (connecting passengers)

You do realize UA is in a joint venture with AC over the Atlantic which extends to India (and beyond) so saying AC is squeezing UA is like saying UA is squeezing UA - and makes about just as much sense.
 
VC10er
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:25 am

What is United’s reputation in India? I have found that in some markets (not the UK) but others like Brazil and Israel, etc, that UA enjoys a much better reputation than at home.
Also, just having done a 15 hour flight in Polaris, when those 772ERs are refitted, J becomes much, much better based on hard product alone. I would think India would be near top of the list to get a newly refurbished 772
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oceanvikram
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:59 am

VarunSolanki747 wrote:
But let me tell you something, these airlines are the real airlines, Not those three musketeers of Middle east. To kiddos, dont get offended, its my point of view.


I think I understand what you are getting at, but please correct me if I am wrong. I think the word you are looking for is business instead of airlines.

ME3 + Kuwait Airways + Oman Air air real airlines, but as far as I can gather they do not follow the profit and loss mantra of Economics 101. There maybe some exception to the rule ie. maybe Etihad and Emirates (not convinced yet).

Air India is not a real business either, if it was not for the government of India's handouts, the company would have ceased to exist a long time ago.

UAL Corp. is a real business and have to answer to various stakeholders (shareholders, unions and just about anyone with a smart phone with a social media account entering an airport terminal where United flies to). Since UAL Corp. owns United, I would say United is a real airline.
My comments are based as an aviation enthusiast first, then as a passenger who paid for his own ticket, after that a passenger on a business trip and finally an armchair CEO.
 
gunnerman
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:17 am

UA has been serving India for a long time, won't have done so if it was loss-making. Many years ago (25?), one of the routes was ORD-LHR-DEL-HKG using the 767. Incidentally, at roughly the same time, AC was operating YYZ-LHR-DEL.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:42 am

oceanvikram wrote:
...
Air India is not a real business either, if it was not for the government of India's handouts, the company would have ceased to exist a long time ago.

UAL Corp. is a real business and have to answer to various stakeholders (shareholders, unions and just about anyone with a smart phone with a social media account entering an airport terminal where United flies to). Since UAL Corp. owns United, I would say United is a real airline.


Indian Comptroller and Auditor General publish route wise historical financial performance of AI particularly USA routes. Other than uneducated Indian journalists, everyone else can look at these numbers.

Can you show anything similar from UA?

You may have bad service when you have service, like AI. When there is no service, there is no chance of bad service, like UA.

AI serves hot meals on flights over 60 minutes. There is a high likelihood of getting a bad hot meal than rotten peanut packet and pop. Indians have a split personality dietary requirements, they will flip from being vegan to hardcore carnivore on a dime, another source of complaint about AI meal choices.

Indians have no perception of cleanliness, you may enter a "just cleaned" restroom and feel it is downright nasty.
 
alyusuph
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Re: Is Indian operations Feasible for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:04 pm

United1 wrote:
TryToFlySomeday wrote:
EWR-DEL isnt operating anymore due to UA’s concerns over Delhi’s air quality. EWR-BOM still flies


EWR-DEL is very much still flying....UA only suspended the route for a few days until the air quality improved a bit.


So they suspended Ops because of air quality when many other airlines are still operating without any problems?
I am not an Airbus or Boeing fan, just an aircraft fan
 
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ojjunior
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:00 pm

Dear Lord
I read the title fast without the word "operations" and understood: "Are Indians profitable for UA?" And immediately thought: What?! What a racist topic!!!
Pre-judgement is something serious... :shock:
 
flight152
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:44 pm

VarunSolanki747 wrote:
Dont know if United is getting profits or not, but even if United wanted to remove the route, it cannot, because this route is not seasonal type route. Its always full. Apparently it is so full, that captain has to leave 2-3 containers behind sometimes in order not to cross MTOW, since its a 200ER. (info from a worker).

On the UAL vs AIC topic
I think none of the airlines are above each other.
1) Both airlines are mocked by people
2) Both airlines are SA Members
3) Both airlines have same fleet members
4) Both airlines provide great food (sarcastic tone available)
5) Both airlines provide great legroom at least
6) Both airlines have a fair share of aviation mistakes
7) Both airlines have great staff (sarcastic tone available)

The questionable part to me is, everytime I fly, I dont have any problems, idk from where people find mistakes in airlines.
And if you want to know how great AIC food is then fly a domestic flight. Same goes for UAL.

But let me tell you something, these airlines are the real airlines, Not those three musketeers of Middle east. To kiddos, dont get offended, its my point of view.

They can’t stop the route because it’s not sesonal? Clearly and completely incorrect. If it wasn’t profitable, it would be gone.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:59 pm

gunnerman wrote:
UA has been serving India for a long time, won't have done so if it was loss-making. Many years ago (25?), one of the routes was ORD-LHR-DEL-HKG using the 767. Incidentally, at roughly the same time, AC was operating YYZ-LHR-DEL.


AC still operates the former route, but it's now a nonstop. IINM, that route was taken over from AI after they discontinued service to Canada.

As for why I mentioned the 787-9...I doubt that UA could fill a 376-seat plane (that would be better used on the other frequency to TLV), while the difference between the B789 and former CO B772s is 15 seats in Y...and 45 tons in MTOW.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:06 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
...I can see India going 77W also.


Then it would be a fair comparison. Now AI has load restrictions on their 77W

Indian duties put AI at a disadvantage.

UA doesn't pay taxes and duties on goods and services ex-India. AI pays hefty duties on ATF.
AI doesn't pay taxes and duties on goods and services ex-USA, But the US doesn't tax much on ATF.

A net benefit to UA.
 
Flighty
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:32 pm

UA absolutely might operate a route that loses money, IF the rate of profitability growth is promising. India is a strategic market. Therefore, today's profitability is not the most important metric. Tomorrow's profitability is.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:34 pm

Flighty wrote:
UA absolutely might operate a route that loses money, IF the rate of profitability growth is promising. India is a strategic market. Therefore, today's profitability is not the most important metric. Tomorrow's profitability is.


Your statement might be true for a new route, but unlikely one that has run for 15 years and particularly at the cost of this stage length.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:50 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
Flighty wrote:
UA absolutely might operate a route that loses money, IF the rate of profitability growth is promising. India is a strategic market. Therefore, today's profitability is not the most important metric. Tomorrow's profitability is.


Your statement might be true for a new route, but unlikely one that has run for 15 years and particularly at the cost of this stage length.


Exactly. Look at UAs recent China cuts.
 
hohd
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:04 pm

I flew both airlines on the EWR-BOM-EWR sectors. UA's timings arriving into BOM is not convenient for connections, but onboard service was fair. The FA's were indifferent and IFE average, but food surprisingly good and the baggage allowance (for non-elites) is only one bag. Almost every time I flew (6 times), the flight was not full on either direction - I always had a middle seat vacant next to me, which is great. On AI, the flights ( 3 times) was packed every time, IFE poor for English movies, but good if you like Indian movies, onboard service fair, FA's somewhat indifferent but slightly more attentive that UA, and the food the same as UA. The main reason I take UA is because of the FF benefits.

I hope UA serves India for a long time to both DEL and BOM.
 
vadodara
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:08 pm

oceanvikram wrote:
Air India is not a real business either, if it was not for the government of India's handouts, the company would have ceased to exist a long time ago.

UAL Corp. is a real business and have to answer to various stakeholders (shareholders, unions and just about anyone with a smart phone with a social media account entering an airport terminal where United flies to). Since UAL Corp. owns United, I would say United is a real airline.


True that! In addition, a former UAL executive figured out how this math works and went on to start an airline now known as IndiGo that may very well have put AI out of its misery!
 
United1
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Re: Is Indian operations Feasible for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:16 pm

alyusuph wrote:
United1 wrote:
TryToFlySomeday wrote:
EWR-DEL isnt operating anymore due to UA’s concerns over Delhi’s air quality. EWR-BOM still flies


EWR-DEL is very much still flying....UA only suspended the route for a few days until the air quality improved a bit.


So they suspended Ops because of air quality when many other airlines are still operating without any problems?


....yes. DEL was a mess that weekend partially due to the smog and partially due to a runway closure.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airl ... DC142?il=0

"The company’s Air Quality Index assesses the atmospheric concentrations of fine particulate matter smaller than 2.5 micrometers, known as PM 2.5.

A U.S. embassy measure of PM 2.5 showed a reading of 481 in New Delhi on Monday morning, local time. The outer limit of “good” air is 50."
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
dmstorm22
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:29 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
When the B772s (ex-CO) are densified, what are the odds that EWR-BOM shifts to a B789, since the B772 is already at the edge of its range? (I can already figure that EWR-HKG will have to go to a B77W or a B789.)

I can see India going 77W also.


In the pre-Kirby days when EWR was seen as the hub for 77W ops, it was almost a sure thing. I remember the line from their network plan head at the time was the 77W would be used for "East and deep south Asia" routes or something to that effect, basically saying EWR-PEK/PVG/HKG and BOM/DEL as "deep south".

I still feel it is a good candidate for 77W eventually (how many longer flights does UA have that can also come close to filling a 77W?).
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:46 pm

vadodara wrote:
...a former UAL executive figured out how this math works and went on to start an airline now known as IndiGo that may very well have put AI out of its misery!


That explains a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d9rlBd ... tu.be&t=81

Wait until AI is history, Indian passengers have to touch feet of every employee of the only surviving monopoly airline in India.

While I appreciate her personal courage and appropriate punishment, that kind of behaviour is not good for any power trip airline employee.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25754
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:11 pm

ojjunior wrote:
Dear Lord
I read the title fast without the word "operations" and understood: "Are Indians profitable for UA?" And immediately thought: What?! What a racist topic!!!
Pre-judgement is something serious... :shock:


Not only is not racist to ask if a certain ethnic group is profitable for an airline, but Airlines absolutely analyze this information in making informed decisions on route planning
a.
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:20 pm

Nimish wrote:
The 3-3-3 seating on the 772 is welcome, as is the Y+ seating, and much preferred over AI's 3-3-3 on the 787 or the 3-4-3 on the 77W. Once UA move this route to a 3-4-3 on a 777, it will not be as pleasant a flight as it is right now.


AI are still 3-3-3 on all 777s for the moment.
Vahroone
 
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Irehdna
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:31 pm

Spiderguy252 wrote:
Nimish wrote:
The 3-3-3 seating on the 772 is welcome, as is the Y+ seating, and much preferred over AI's 3-3-3 on the 787 or the 3-4-3 on the 77W. Once UA move this route to a 3-4-3 on a 777, it will not be as pleasant a flight as it is right now.


AI are still 3-3-3 on all 777s for the moment.


UA is 3-4-3 though. I think most in eco on 16 hr flights would prefer more spacious 3-3-3. IMO airlines with 9-abreast 777 can definitely market this product over competitors smaller seats.
 
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Kevinflyer
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:32 pm

I thought I’d ask the elephant in the room on this one...

Does anyone know how the emergence of the ME3 has impacted the route profitability for AI, UA etc?

As I know the ME3 are very popular choices in the South Asian Community as well.
 
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Irehdna
Posts: 388
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:36 pm

Kevinflyer wrote:
I thought I’d ask the elephant in the room on this one...

Does anyone know how the emergence of the ME3 has impacted the route profitability for AI, UA etc?

As I know the ME3 are very popular choices in the South Asian Community as well.


I don't think by much because driving from NJ to JFK/PHL is extremely tedious. At that point, people would consider nonstop from EWR versus 1-stop JFK, even on better-reputed airlines. I am interested though if/when ME3 starts EWR nonstop how this affects UA.
 
CHI787ORD
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:15 pm

AA served ORD-DEL for about five years from 2004-2009. I believe it was a marginal performer initially but EY entering the ORD-India market and AI going nonstop, plus the recession made it unprofitable quickly.

ORD-BOM does seem to be underserved considering the demographic breakdown of the Indian population in Chicago
 
SATexan
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:52 pm

A333fan wrote:
Hey everyone, I am curious to know whether the Indian operations are profitable for United Airlines or not.
I know United Airlines offers 1 Daily flight each to Bombay and Delhi from Newark...
Are they really profitable operating them on B777200ERs...


UA's India routes have survived the following:
    1. 150$ a barrel oil price
    2. Worst recession since the Great depression
    3. Airline mergers (UA, CO)

If these routes have managed to survive, despite their stage length and all the events mentioned above, then we can fairly confidently state that the India operations are MOST likely profitable for United. I do hope they add EWR-BLR in due course.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:26 pm

Delta may not operate unless there is double-digit margin, UA may operate with 1% margin and AI may operate up to -2% margin. Every airline has different goal posts. Just hypothetical numbers, a.net fact police need not jump in.
 
flyfresno
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:30 pm

VarunSolanki747 wrote:
Dont know if United is getting profits or not, but even if United wanted to remove the route, it cannot, because this route is not seasonal type route. Its always full. Apparently it is so full, that captain has to leave 2-3 containers behind sometimes in order not to cross MTOW, since its a 200ER. (info from a worker).

On the UAL vs AIC topic
I think none of the airlines are above each other.
1) Both airlines are mocked by people
2) Both airlines are SA Members
3) Both airlines have same fleet members
4) Both airlines provide great food (sarcastic tone available)
5) Both airlines provide great legroom at least
6) Both airlines have a fair share of aviation mistakes
7) Both airlines have great staff (sarcastic tone available)

The questionable part to me is, everytime I fly, I dont have any problems, idk from where people find mistakes in airlines.
And if you want to know how great AIC food is then fly a domestic flight. Same goes for UAL.

But let me tell you something, these airlines are the real airlines, Not those three musketeers of Middle east. To kiddos, dont get offended, its my point of view.


I’ve only flown AI once, but it was awful. I’ll never fly on them again.

1) The special diet meal I ordered contained the one ingredient it was supposed to not have.
2) The plane was dirty (probably the dirtiest I’ve ever been on, and I’ve flown on a few dozen airlines around the world, including quite a few small regional airlines in South America and Asia) and the fabric seats very worn.
3) The flight attendants did not seem to care about their ordinary tasks (see below as well).
4) And the kicker: there were bed bugs in the seat back pocket, which I didn’t discover until after takeoff, and the FAs brushed away as nothing.

UA isn’t winning any awards, but I’ve never been on a flight on them (and I’ve been on a lot) that went like that.

On a side note, though, Sri Lankan Airlines is pretty amazing .
 
727200
Posts: 633
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:01 pm

Didn't AI say last year that they lose money on ALL their routes world-wide except for a couple? When you have the government writing the checks and not looking at the bottom line you can keep flying anywhere you want; are you listing ME3?
 
oceanvikram
Posts: 66
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Re: Are Indian operations profitable for United Airlines?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:11 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
...
Indian Comptroller and Auditor General publish route wise historical financial performance of AI particularly USA routes. Other than uneducated Indian journalists, everyone else can look at these numbers.

Can you show anything similar from UA?


To be honest, I don't know, but my starting point would be the annual financial report since the company is a publicly listed entity and has to submit it to the public as a legal requirement. However I don't know how the route wise historical financial performance of the 2 airlines help Air India be a real airline or for that matter of fact a profitable company. Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Air India loosing money and owes a lot of money to the government of India?

Also can you please clarify "uneducated" Indian journalists? Surely the journalists in India have been to university or at least finished school.

dtw2hyd wrote:
...
You may have bad service when you have service, like AI. When there is no service, there is no chance of bad service, like UA.

The second sentence is profound and rather philosophical. I am afraid I am unable to understand the first sentence.

dtw2hyd wrote:
...
AI serves hot meals on flights over 60 minutes. There is a high likelihood of getting a bad hot meal than rotten peanut packet and pop. Indians have a split personality dietary requirements, they will flip from being vegan to hardcore carnivore on a dime, another source of complaint about AI meal choices.

I second that. By the way, I actually like Air India's meals.

dtw2hyd wrote:
...
Indians have no perception of cleanliness, you may enter a "just cleaned" restroom and feel it is downright nasty.

Sadly it is a true observation. Would you say that it is only on flights to and from India? When ever I fly within or to and fro from India, I try to be the first one to use the toilet but always there are a few people who beat me to it. And when it is my turn to use the toilet, its already disgusting. Due to positioning myself to avoid the mess, I add to the filth. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
My comments are based as an aviation enthusiast first, then as a passenger who paid for his own ticket, after that a passenger on a business trip and finally an armchair CEO.

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