This is being discussed on a couple of threads but I thought the news should have it's own more-visible thread.

Beginning May 1, 2018, HA will begin SAN-OGG service using the A321Neo. There will be 4 other seasonal routes increases, inc HNL-NRT! Here's a link to the HA P R:
https://newsroom.hawaiianairlines.com/r ... er-service

SAN-OGG will operate daily (and permanently I assume) on the following schedule:
>HA37 Dep SAN 8:15am, Arr OGG 11:15am DLY A321
>HA38 Dep OGG 12:50pm, Arr SAN 9:10pm DLY A321

Also, summer seasonal service between SFO-HNL, OAK-KOA, LAX-OGG and HNL-NRT will be offered using the 321.

It's great to see HA finally get back into the SAN-OGG market after 7 years!

bb

Excellent news and nice to see that it appears to be a year-round flight! It would also be great to see a second daily HNL flight in the future, with a morning departure from Hawaii and late afternoon return from SAN.

AFAIK, the SAN-HNL flight is remaining a widebody (A332) which is great. (Next May, when OGG begins, SAN-HNL is still flown with the A332.) That certainly continues to give HA an advantage over both AS and WN -- for those who like the idea of a 2-aisle plane for a 6-hour flight. I hope that remains in place.

But I agree, Lindy' that a second flight , on a 321, would be very nice as well.

The pictures that I've seen of the HA Neo show a really beautiful livery and it will be a pleasure to see her in SAN every day.

The schedule of the new Maui flight is terrific; very similar in fact to AS's schedule. I'm happy that HA still seems to start new mainland routes with daylight flights; only with additional flights in a market do we see e/b redeyes -- as some of the summer-seasonal flights also announced above are.

When WN enters the Islands markets, things will undoubtedly change but both AS and HA (in SAN at least) are setting themselves up very nicely to face the new competition!

bb

SANFan wrote:

This is being discussed on a couple of threads but I thought the news should have it's own more-visible thread.

Beginning May 1, 2018, HA will begin SAN-OGG service using the A321Neo. There will be 4 other seasonal routes increases, inc HNL-NRT! Here's a link to the HA P R:
https://newsroom.hawaiianairlines.com/r ... er-service

SAN-OGG will operate daily (and permanently I assume) on the following schedule:
>HA37 Dep SAN 8:15am, Arr OGG 11:15am DLY A321
>HA38 Dep OGG 12:50pm, Arr SAN 9:10pm DLY A321

Also, summer seasonal service between SFO-HNL, OAK-KOA, LAX-OGG and HNL-NRT will be offered using the 321.

It's great to see HA finally get back into the SAN-OGG market after 7 years!

bb

HNL-NRT with the A321...? That's great news! Probably one of the longest narrow-body routes to date!

Summer flights between HNL - NRT and LAX - OGG will use A330 per the PR link.

geardown wrote:

Summer flights between HNL - NRT and LAX - OGG will use A330 per the PR link.

After re-reading the P R, I think you're right. (The wording of the P R is a bit tricky IMO.) My apologies for missing that. (I can't edit the OP so we're stuck with my incorrect words at the end of the second to the last sentence.)

BTW, part of my reasoning for assuming all 4 seasonal flights were op'd with the 321 was that the schedules kind of hint that the SFO-HNL and HNL-NRT might be using the same a/c: SFO-HNL ends on 7-231 and HNL-NRT flight begins on 8/1.

bb

HA please come to YVR!!!

SAN is getting a little love in 2018,with Lufthansa coming, HA has the new flight to OGG, what else could
be "waiting in the wings"???? Pardon the pun!

HNL-NRT with A321neo? Damn!!!
That's an ETOPS 180 route too. And at 3,319nm will also be the longest A321 route.

SANMAN66 wrote:

SAN is getting a little love in 2018,with Lufthansa coming, HA has the new flight to OGG, what else could
be "waiting in the wings"???? Pardon the pun!

Maybe if ogg goes well, ha can add other 2 islands once they get more a321neo.

Quite the game changing aircraft for ha.

fe727 wrote:

HA please come to YVR!!!

The business case doesn’t look like it’s there.

The point of sale for most YVR-Hawaii traffic is heavily skewed to the Canadian side and there is ample capacity afforded by the lower cost incumbents already on the routes. HA would likely be without a feed partner in Western Canada seeing as how their direct competition would be the only viable options for interline connectivity. In the absence of their cooperation, this would limit HA’s presence to YVR alone. Besides, I bet there are other more lucrative potential markets eyed up ahead of this one.

Seems to me that WS and AC Rouge have this sewn up for the time being.

airbazar wrote:

HNL-NRT with A321neo? Damn!!!
That's an ETOPS 180 route too. And at 3,319nm will also be the longest A321 route.

No, its the A330.

HA's planned schedule between SAN and OGG is great. Early morning, arrive in Maui just in time for a light lunch and mai-tai at the beach! The return home in the evening, leaves plenty of time to get home and enjoy a full night's sleep before work the next day.

Many years ago, I took HA's 767 service from SAN to OGG. It was a wonderful flight and I miss the widebody experience to OGG. Interesting fact -- the instructions in the 767 galley and lavatories were all in German on the plane! Although I would prefer a widebody, it will be interesting to see the much-heralded 321-NEO flying in and out of SAN.

My guess would be that (eventually) HA might split a daily 321 flight out of SAN to LIH and KOA -- perhaps 3x/wkly to Kona and the other 4 days/wk to Kauai. There should be enough traffic to keep the flights running year-round. This is pretty much the path that AS followed with SAN-HI.

And I would think sooner-rather-than-later might be a good idea; to me, it would make sense for HA to get started flying to all 4 islands from SAN before WN shows up to the party...

Again, as I said already, I really hope the 332 is kept on the HNL route. If it is replaced, then I would expect (hope) we would see double-daily 321 service in the market.

bb

Not to change the subject but on a related note with the A321NEO, if this aircraft can fly SAN-OGG without any unreasonable payload restrictions, I don't see why Delta won't opt for it over the 737MAX.

Can a 739max do this route? 7000' wet runway in OGG with a full load?

Sounds like Hawaiian will enjoy having the 321.

JAAlbert wrote:

Many years ago, I took HA's 767 service from SAN to OGG. It was a wonderful flight and I miss the widebody experience to OGG. Interesting fact -- the instructions in the 767 galley and lavatories were all in German on the plane! Although I would prefer a widebody, it will be interesting to see the much-heralded 321-NEO flying in and out of SAN.

Sounds like you were on one of the four 767s that HA picked up from LTU.

I keep wondering why the sudden interest the airlines have with the A321?
USAirways was the only US carrier to have them for years before the merger
with American.

Let’s see what the prices are.
SAN direct nonstop to Hawaii islands is expensive.
Saved 700 by driving up to LAX.

The Airlines gouge for Hawaii out of SAN

FA9295 wrote:

SANFan wrote:

This is being discussed on a couple of threads but I thought the news should have it's own more-visible thread.

Beginning May 1, 2018, HA will begin SAN-OGG service using the A321Neo. There will be 4 other seasonal routes increases, inc HNL-NRT! Here's a link to the HA P R:
https://newsroom.hawaiianairlines.com/r ... er-service

SAN-OGG will operate daily (and permanently I assume) on the following schedule:
>HA37 Dep SAN 8:15am, Arr OGG 11:15am DLY A321
>HA38 Dep OGG 12:50pm, Arr SAN 9:10pm DLY A321

Also, summer seasonal service between SFO-HNL, OAK-KOA, LAX-OGG and HNL-NRT will be offered using the 321.

It's great to see HA finally get back into the SAN-OGG market after 7 years!

bb

HNL-NRT with the A321...? That's great news! Probably one of the longest narrow-body routes to date!

Why is that "great news"? I cannot think of anything more miserable!

FA9295 wrote:

SANFan wrote:

This is being discussed on a couple of threads but I thought the news should have it's own more-visible thread.

Beginning May 1, 2018, HA will begin SAN-OGG service using the A321Neo. There will be 4 other seasonal routes increases, inc HNL-NRT! Here's a link to the HA P R:
https://newsroom.hawaiianairlines.com/r ... er-service

SAN-OGG will operate daily (and permanently I assume) on the following schedule:
>HA37 Dep SAN 8:15am, Arr OGG 11:15am DLY A321
>HA38 Dep OGG 12:50pm, Arr SAN 9:10pm DLY A321

Also, summer seasonal service between SFO-HNL, OAK-KOA, LAX-OGG and HNL-NRT will be offered using the 321.

It's great to see HA finally get back into the SAN-OGG market after 7 years!

bb

HNL-NRT with the A321...? That's great news! Probably one of the longest narrow-body routes to date!

You know the 707 and DC-8 used to fly 6000 mike routes and they are narrow bodies.

BoeingGuy wrote:

FA9295 wrote:

SANFan wrote:

This is being discussed on a couple of threads but I thought the news should have it's own more-visible thread.

Beginning May 1, 2018, HA will begin SAN-OGG service using the A321Neo. There will be 4 other seasonal routes increases, inc HNL-NRT! Here's a link to the HA P R:
https://newsroom.hawaiianairlines.com/r ... er-service

SAN-OGG will operate daily (and permanently I assume) on the following schedule:
>HA37 Dep SAN 8:15am, Arr OGG 11:15am DLY A321
>HA38 Dep OGG 12:50pm, Arr SAN 9:10pm DLY A321

Also, summer seasonal service between SFO-HNL, OAK-KOA, LAX-OGG and HNL-NRT will be offered using the 321.

It's great to see HA finally get back into the SAN-OGG market after 7 years!

bb

HNL-NRT with the A321...? That's great news! Probably one of the longest narrow-body routes to date!

You know the 707 and DC-8 used to fly 6000 mike routes and they are narrow bodies.

Except you had very cushy wide seats with a lot of pitch and great inflight service.

crownvic wrote:

FA9295 wrote:

SANFan wrote:

This is being discussed on a couple of threads but I thought the news should have it's own more-visible thread.

Beginning May 1, 2018, HA will begin SAN-OGG service using the A321Neo. There will be 4 other seasonal routes increases, inc HNL-NRT! Here's a link to the HA P R:
https://newsroom.hawaiianairlines.com/r ... er-service

SAN-OGG will operate daily (and permanently I assume) on the following schedule:
>HA37 Dep SAN 8:15am, Arr OGG 11:15am DLY A321
>HA38 Dep OGG 12:50pm, Arr SAN 9:10pm DLY A321

Also, summer seasonal service between SFO-HNL, OAK-KOA, LAX-OGG and HNL-NRT will be offered using the 321.

It's great to see HA finally get back into the SAN-OGG market after 7 years!

bb

HNL-NRT with the A321...? That's great news! Probably one of the longest narrow-body routes to date!

Why is that "great news"? I cannot think of anything more miserable!

My point was that there hasn't been a narrow-body route this long before... (some of WOW's routes may be longer, IDK...)

FA9295 wrote:

crownvic wrote:

FA9295 wrote:

HNL-NRT with the A321...? That's great news! Probably one of the longest narrow-body routes to date!

Why is that "great news"? I cannot think of anything more miserable!

My point was that there hasn't been a narrow-body route this long before... (some of WOW's routes may be longer, IDK...)

Yes there has. Last time I checked the 707, DC-8, and VC-10 were all narrow bodies. However, the previous poster made a good point. You didn’t have 30-31” pitch and fees for everything back then.

Conversely, you didn’t have non-stops all over the place like you have now.

I do not see in the article that the 321 will be flying to Japan.

Did I miss something?

I can remember 24 hours in a 707-344 with a JFK-GIG-JNB routing & reverse in 1970, it was quite good pitch as I had room to sleep on the floor at my parents feet for part of that flight, the stop at GIG was perfect, as the plane had been full out of JFK, but we lost many of the more "enthusiastic" passengers when where arrived in Brazil early that morning. A more civilized experience, but then there was no entertainment & service was paramount to the flying experience.

I think the HA A-321 experience to Hawaii on 5-7 hour flights is going to be very nice compared to the offerings of the day, I prefer flying HA to Hawaii over any other carrier, however my allegiance to AS keeps me on 737's when going to Hawaii, the upgrades help.

crownvic wrote:

Why is that "great news"? I cannot think of anything more miserable!

You must be a really good swimmer

nine4nine wrote:

Except you had very cushy wide seats with a lot of pitch and great inflight service.

Wrong. Although pitch was indeed more, the seat width wasn't. The A320 series has a wider and quieter cabin, which translates into wider seats and a much more comfortable ride. But back then you paid thru the nose to get that kind of seat pitch in Y, which you can still do today if you so wish to have 34-34" pitch by paying for "premium economy" or F class.

FA9295 wrote:

My point was that there hasn't been a narrow-body route this long before... (some of WOW's routes may be longer, IDK...)

SAN-OGG is only 2,208 nm.
There are literally dozens of TCON flights on narrowbody aircraft, every day that fly longer distances: bos-sfo, bos-lax, jfk-sfo, mia-sea, mia-sfo are all longer. And then there are the multiple TATL flights on DY, WW, FI, UA, AA, DL.

goboeing wrote:

Not to change the subject but on a related note with the A321NEO, if this aircraft can fly SAN-OGG without any unreasonable payload restrictions, I don't see why Delta won't opt for it over the 737MAX.

Can a 739max do this route? 7000' wet runway in OGG with a full load?

Sounds like Hawaiian will enjoy having the 321.

AA is currently using A321 CEO's on all OGG-LAX flights. From what I've heard, they do not go out WR very often if at all. As a matter of fact, most of the videos I've seen of AA 321 departures out of OGG appear to be quite "sprightly" in nature.

DL and UA both operate the 739ER to Hawaii, but only to HNL and KOA which have much longer runways. To my knowledge, neither have ever operated the 739ER into OGG. UA uses the 738SFP, 752 and 753 and DL uses the 752.

Unless the 7M9 is a much better performer than its NG relative, I doubt we will see it at OGG. AA will likely use their 21N's into OGG once they come on-line. As for what DL and UA do remains to be seen.

I think DL and UA are in a unique position when it comes to the 320N series. They both have the luxury of waiting to see how the aircraft performs with other airlines in the real world before making a decision.

UA has plenty of MAX planes on order but that doesn't mean there is absolutely no room for the 321N/321LR.

77H

The folks bemoaning the narrowbody experience to Hawaii are being ridiculous. I have flown on multiple airlines, wide and narrowbody, and the experience has nothing to do with the aircraft but the airline’s product. Hands down my favorite economy product is VX with the IFE ordering, followed by a toss-up between the AA A321 and DL because of the IFE selections. AS comes in next because of the service and my mileage loyalty, and I would choose all those over HA because of overall product and loyalty. I don’t fly HA for a variety of reasons including schedule, IFE and poor mileage value.

I used to specifically book HA and the DL 767 to LAX or SLC because I wanted the wide body experience but once I started experimenting, I realized how little the aircraft itself matters. I will say one thing though: the A321 aisle on VX/AA is (or at least seems) wider than the 737 but I’m not paying to stand in the aisle; the tight rope walk to the lav in-flight amounts to maybe 10 minutes total of the 5 hour journey.

Second, and this doesn’t matter to me because I’m in HNL, but these narrowbodies have allowed for new service and additional frequency to all the islands giving everyone choice, flexibility and opportunity to travel. That is a win-win and should be welcomed with open arms.

With SFO-HNL and HNL-NRT both getting A321neo, will this be the first/only one-stop Pacific crossing on a narrowbody available in 2018?

KiloRomeoDelta wrote:

With SFO-HNL and HNL-NRT both getting A321neo, will this be the first/only one-stop Pacific crossing on a narrowbody available in 2018?

No, because it's the additional NRT flight isn't being flown on the 321neo. It will be on the 330, like the other NRT and international flights.

obelau24 wrote:

The folks bemoaning the narrowbody experience to Hawaii are being ridiculous. I have flown on multiple airlines, wide and narrowbody, and the experience has nothing to do with the aircraft but the airline’s product. Hands down my favorite economy product is VX with the IFE ordering, followed by a toss-up between the AA A321 and DL because of the IFE selections. AS comes in next because of the service and my mileage loyalty, and I would choose all those over HA because of overall product and loyalty. I don’t fly HA for a variety of reasons including schedule, IFE and poor mileage value.

I used to specifically book HA and the DL 767 to LAX or SLC because I wanted the wide body experience but once I started experimenting, I realized how little the aircraft itself matters. I will say one thing though: the A321 aisle on VX/AA is (or at least seems) wider than the 737 but I’m not paying to stand in the aisle; the tight rope walk to the lav in-flight amounts to maybe 10 minutes total of the 5 hour journey.

Second, and this doesn’t matter to me because I’m in HNL, but these narrowbodies have allowed for new service and additional frequency to all the islands giving everyone choice, flexibility and opportunity to travel. That is a win-win and should be welcomed with open arms.

I completely agree. If operating narrowbody's allows for more frequency, or more city pairs, its a win-win. At the end of the day, there are still plenty of WBs plying the Pacific to/from Hawaii. If aircraft type means that much, cast the vote with ones wallet and book with an airline that operates a WB. Almost every mainland city is connected to (at least) HNL by one airline that operates a WB.

Having said all that, I've flown on UA's 772 DEN-HNL (numerous times) and their 752 DEN-OGG (once),and I would have to say that the 777 is/was a better experience. Even if the seat width, and pitch are exactly the same, the 777 feels more "roomy". Perception is a powerful thing. Being on a WB gives you the perception that you can get up and walk around without causing a major disturbance even if you never leave your seat. While I do try and avoid 737's (out of a weird personal principle) I'll gladly hop on a 752/3. I hope to experience a 321 soon.

77H

The NRT route is not on the A321

rlwynn wrote:

I do not see in the article that the 321 will be flying to Japan.

Did I miss something?

It's not being flown by the A321. I'm assuming that the OP mistakenly put that instead of SAN-OGG.

airbazar wrote:

SAN-OGG is only 2,208 nm.
There are literally dozens of TCON flights on narrowbody aircraft, every day that fly longer distances: bos-sfo, bos-lax, jfk-sfo, mia-sea, mia-sfo are all longer. And then there are the multiple TATL flights on DY, WW, FI, UA, AA, DL.

Thanks, but I was referring to the HNL-NRT route, which someone said was going to be flown by the A321; which it is not. That was a mistake that the OP made...

Wow, HNL to NRT on a A321. Hope nothing goes wrong, that's literally 99.9% over water at near max range. Just kiddin'

Here's to hoping an HKG flight is launched soon!

FA9295 wrote:

airbazar wrote:

SAN-OGG is only 2,208 nm.
There are literally dozens of TCON flights on narrowbody aircraft, every day that fly longer distances: bos-sfo, bos-lax, jfk-sfo, mia-sea, mia-sfo are all longer. And then there are the multiple TATL flights on DY, WW, FI, UA, AA, DL.

Thanks, but I was referring to the HNL-NRT route, which someone said was going to be flown by the A321; which it is not. That was a mistake that the OP made...

If you read the article it does state it will use "its new narrow-body aircraft" to complement the A330 on LAX-OGG and NRT-HNL.

"Hawaiian will deploy its new narrow-body aircraft on non-stop summer flights between San Francisco (SFO) and Honolulu (HNL), and Oakland (OAK) and Kona (KOA) on the Island of Hawai‘i. The airline will also add summer flights between Los Angeles (LAX)-OGG and NRT-HNL, supplementing existing daily service on each route with A330 wide-body aircraft featuring Premium Cabin lie-flat seating and more Extra Comfort seats."

If that's not the case then the news is poorly written.

airbazar wrote:

FA9295 wrote:

airbazar wrote:

SAN-OGG is only 2,208 nm.
There are literally dozens of TCON flights on narrowbody aircraft, every day that fly longer distances: bos-sfo, bos-lax, jfk-sfo, mia-sea, mia-sfo are all longer. And then there are the multiple TATL flights on DY, WW, FI, UA, AA, DL.

Thanks, but I was referring to the HNL-NRT route, which someone said was going to be flown by the A321; which it is not. That was a mistake that the OP made...

If you read the article it does state it will use "its new narrow-body aircraft" to complement the A330 on LAX-OGG and NRT-HNL.

That is not at all what it states. You even quoted it:

"Hawaiian will deploy its new narrow-body aircraft on non-stop summer flights between San Francisco (SFO) and Honolulu (HNL), and Oakland (OAK) and Kona (KOA) on the Island of Hawai‘i. The airline will also add summer flights between Los Angeles (LAX)-OGG and NRT-HNL, supplementing existing daily service on each route with A330 wide-body aircraft featuring Premium Cabin lie-flat seating and more Extra Comfort seats."

First sentence: HA will use A321s on routes between Hawaii and mainland.

Second sentence: HA will also add extra capacity LAX-OGG and NRT-HNL with A330s.

If that's not the case then the news is poorly written.

It's written just fine.

hOMSaR wrote:

First sentence: HA will use A321s on routes between Hawaii and mainland.

Second sentence: HA will also add extra capacity LAX-OGG and NRT-HNL with A330s.

It doesn't say that at all. Do you not see the comma? The pacement of the comma means something.
It says "The airline will also add summer flights between Los Angeles (LAX)-OGG and NRT-HNL, supplementing existing daily service on each route with A330 wide-body aircraft"
Meaning, the existing daily service is on the A330, not the new routes.

The fact that we're even having this discussion means that the entire article is left up to interpretation by the reader, which as a news article is by definition a poorly written article. A news article should not be left to interpretation. It should state facts clearly and concisely.

Now i move the comma, it has a different meaning:
"The airline will also add summer flights between Los Angeles (LAX)-OGG and NRT-HNL supplementing existing daily service on each route, with A330 wide-body aircraft"

airbazar wrote:

hOMSaR wrote:

First sentence: HA will use A321s on routes between Hawaii and mainland.

Second sentence: HA will also add extra capacity LAX-OGG and NRT-HNL with A330s.

It doesn't say that at all. Do you not see the comma?
It says "The airline will also add summer flights between Los Angeles (LAX)-OGG and NRT-HNL, supplementing existing daily service on each route with A330 wide-body aircraft"
Meaning, the existing daily service is on the A330, not the new routes.

The fact that we're even having this discussion means that the entire article is left up to interpretation by the reader, which as a news article is by definition a poorly written article. A news article should not be left to interpretation. It should state facts clearly and concisely.

I do see the comma. The text following the comma says the supplemental service is with A330s.

airbazar wrote:

hOMSaR wrote:

First sentence: HA will use A321s on routes between Hawaii and mainland.

Second sentence: HA will also add extra capacity LAX-OGG and NRT-HNL with A330s.

It doesn't say that at all. Do you not see the comma? The pacement of the comma means something.
It says "The airline will also add summer flights between Los Angeles (LAX)-OGG and NRT-HNL, supplementing existing daily service on each route with A330 wide-body aircraft"
Meaning, the existing daily service is on the A330, not the new routes.

The fact that we're even having this discussion means that the entire article is left up to interpretation by the reader, which as a news article is by definition a poorly written article. A news article should not be left to interpretation. It should state facts clearly and concisely.

Now i move the comma, it has a different meaning:
"The airline will also add summer flights between Los Angeles (LAX)-OGG and NRT-HNL supplementing existing daily service on each route, with A330 wide-body aircraft"

It is poorly written, but the new service is operated by the A330.