Incident: ANZ B789 near Auckland on Dec 5th 2017, engine shut down in flight

LoganTheBogan · Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:51 am

An ANZ Air New Zealand Boeing 787-9, registration ZK-NZE performing flight ANZ-99 from Auckland to Tokyo Narita was climbing out of Auckland's runway 23L when the crew stopped the climb at FL150 due to engine vibrations and abnormal engine sounds. The crew shut the engine down and returned to Auckland for a safe landing on runway 23L about 50 minutes after departure.

The airline reported the captain elected to shut one of the engines down as a precaution and returned to Auckland.

Passengers reported the aircraft began to shake violently, there were weird noises, clunking sounds, and electrical power went temporarily out. The captain subsequently announced a minor technical problem with one of the engines. After landing fire fighters sprayed the left hand side of the aircraft.
There is a video in the first link but it's made by two news reporters who know nothing about aviation

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zeala ... -down.html
http://avherald.com/h?article=4b1f3235&opt=0

caoimhin · Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:41 pm

RR or GE on this bird?

AECM · Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:41 pm

Trent 1000

ikolkyo · Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:42 pm

This stuff happens everyday, is a thread really necessary?

NZ321 · Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:44 pm

I'm not sure this warrants its own thread - it is already being discussed in the New Zealand forum, but since you've posted you might be interested to know there was a further incident tonight involving a 787-9 bound for Buenos Aires (NZ30) which dumped fuel and returned to Auckland. Different aircraft. Refer NZ forum.

zeke · Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:29 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
This stuff happens everyday, is a thread really necessary?

This doesn’t happen everyday, ETDO would not exist if it did.

Last time I remember this happening was a Royal Brunei on climb out of MNL, they returned to MNL with an engine shutdiwn. Further investigation found the other remaining engine had HPT blade failure as well making it the first 787 accident.

LoganTheBogan · Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:34 pm

I only posted it because the Trent 1000 engines have been having issues of late. I suppose it could be turned into a discussion whether the Trent 1000 TEN will be solid fix.

Tedd · Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:39 pm

LoganTheBogan wrote:
I only posted it because the Trent 1000 engines have been having issues of late. I suppose it could be turned into a discussion whether the Trent 1000 TEN will be solid fix.

No need to reproach yourself because someone doesn`t like it. This will be of interest certainly in the context
of issues you mention. I will be interested to know if this indeed has anything to do with the blade issue, & if
it`s not, I will still be interested in why the engine had to be shut-down, an unfortunate occurrence I never wish
to experience.

Zkpilot · Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:13 am

ikolkyo wrote:
This stuff happens everyday, is a thread really necessary?

Not so much these days and to have 2x NZ 789 have inflight engine shut downs in 2 days with the same engine type is very very rare indeed.
All evidence points to a RR issue (which they have come out and said there are issues) rather than an airline issue.
This is going to cause huge disruption for NZ leading up to the peak holiday travel season (RR has no spare engines right now and neither does NZ).
Here are the following schedule changes/cancellations as a result:
Schedule changes currently planned between Thursday 7 December and Sunday 10 December are as follows (all dates given in local time):
Thursday 7 December:
Flight Route Status
NZ175 Auckland – Perth Cancelled
NZ178 Perth – Auckland Cancelled
NZ31 Buenos Aires – Auckland Delayed 8 hours, 55 minutes
NZ282 Auckland – Singapore Delayed 35 minutes
NZ289 Auckland – Shanghai Delayed 5 hours, 40 minutes
(now departing Friday AM)
Friday 8 December:
Flight Route Status
NZ97 Auckland – Osaka Cancelled
NZ98 Osaka – Auckland Cancelled
NZ175 Auckland – Perth Delayed 3 hours, 30 minutes
NZ162 Perth - Christchurch Delayed 7 hours, 35 minutes
NZ161 Christchurch – Perth Delayed 4 hours, 50 minutes
NZ289 Auckland – Shanghai Delayed 7 hours, 30 minutes
NZ288 Shanghai – Auckland Delayed 1 hour, 45 minutes
NZ61 Auckland – Rarotonga – Sydney Delayed 1 hour, 30 minutes
Saturday 9 December:
Flight Route Status
NZ30 Auckland – Buenos Aires Delayed 5 hours, 35 minutes
NZ289 Auckland – Shanghai Delayed 7 hours, 30 minutes
NZ288 Shanghai – Auckland Delayed 3 hours
NZ28 Auckland – Houston Cancelled
NZ29 Houston – Auckland Cancelled
Sunday 10 December:
Flight Route Status
NZ289 Auckland – Shanghai Delayed 1 hour, 16 minutes

itisi · Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:47 am

VS from Hong Kong last night arrived back in Hong Kong this morning, turning around near Ulan Bator and flying back to Hong Kong.... 9 hours flight to nowhere!!

This was a 789 and I'm wondering if engine related

TC957 · Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:03 pm

Looks like NZ is having to take action over the Trent failures :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42261826

TC957 · Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:19 pm

According to this new report, the engines actually " shed turbine blades " which if true escalates the Trent issues somewhat.
https://www.airlineratings.com/news/rol ... ne-issues/

LoganTheBogan · Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:47 am

Images are starting to appear. This news article contains images from the incident engine.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/12/07/6 ... 787-engine

ikramerica · Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:18 am

Don't trust passengers accounts of power "going out" as it's not what happens. The pilots purposely turn off non essential power draws during a shutdown to confirm the single engine is doing its job. Then power is restored to some systems.

Does the 787 have a RAT?

caoimhin · Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:52 am

ikramerica wrote:
Does the 787 have a RAT?

Yes, it does.

LoganTheBogan · Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:02 am

ikramerica wrote:
Don't trust passengers accounts of power "going out" as it's not what happens. The pilots purposely turn off non essential power draws during a shutdown to confirm the single engine is doing its job. Then power is restored to some systems.

Does the 787 have a RAT?

Not familiar with aircraft electrical systems but do intermittent disruptions occur when switching power source at load?

zeke · Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:17 am

ikramerica wrote:
The pilots purposely turn off non essential power draws during a shutdown to confirm the single engine is doing its job. Then power is restored to some systems.

That is news to me, bus ties would be all automatic when the generators go offline on the failed engine. Load shedding would also be automatic. Any load shedding should be restored when the APU is started and online.

zeke · Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:20 am

LoganTheBogan wrote:
[
Not familiar with aircraft electrical systems but do intermittent disruptions occur when switching power source at load?

Yes you can get them when they sync the AC busses. Sometimes you can see that when you switch over from ground power to APU,or when engines start.

Balerit · Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:21 am

I wonder if this issue will affect the A350?

Turbine blades:

LoganTheBogan · Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:24 am

Balerit wrote:
I wonder if this issue will affect the A350?

I was thinking same thing. Both the Trent XWB and Trent 7000 are extremely similar to the Trent 1000. So far engine reliability for the A350 has been incredible. Hopefully this doesn't change or RR could be in a serious pickle. Airbus would also suffer because their A330neo is already delayed.

WIederling · Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:30 am

Balerit wrote:
I wonder if this issue will affect the A350?

Turbine blades:
https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/93882925 ... me=600x314

Urgh.
Hot side of the HPT? ( view from the inside combustion chamber to the rear? )

Balerit · Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:53 am

WIederling wrote:
Balerit wrote:
I wonder if this issue will affect the A350?

Turbine blades:
https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/93882925 ... me=600x314

Urgh.
Hot side of the HPT? ( view from the inside combustion chamber to the rear? )

Not sure, I saw this in an article online but cannot verify if it is indeed the NZ one but that looks like something let go upstream.

Balerit · Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:58 am

You know what was amazing, in the early 90's we had just received our first B747-400 with RR engines. The Rep walked into our Departure shack one day to show us something they had picked up on a boroscope inspection - not sure what prompted them to do this on a new engine but the photo showed a perfect imprint of a bolt thread on one of the turbine blades. No other blades were marked or damaged. Maybe some of the SAA guys will remember this as a lot of then now work for Air New Zealand.

WIederling · Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:17 am

Balerit wrote:
Not sure, I saw this in an article online but cannot verify if it is indeed the NZ one but that looks like something let go upstream.

I'd have tagged this as ( "sand", agressive gases ) errosion. All blades are more or less evenly worn at the front.

apropos what happens if you have too much sulfur in the fuel?

zkncj · Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:10 am

3x 789s we're parked up at the AKL NZ Hangar on Saturday morning.

qf789 · Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:22 am

Flights affected 9th December

NZ161 CHC-PER delayed 4hrs50mins
NZ289 AKL-PVG delayed 10hrs
NZ288 PVG-AKL delayed 1hr35mins
NZ30 AKL-EZE delayed 5hrs35mins
NZ28/29 AKL-IAH cancelled
NZ175 AKL-PER delayed 3hrs20mins
NZ101/102 AKL-SYD operated by 772 instead of 789

Flights affected 10th December

NZ289 AKL-PVG Delayed 1hr16mins
NZ107/108 AKL-SYD operated by 772 instead of 789
NZ191/192 AKL-ADL operated by A320 instead of 789

Flights affected 11th December

NZ175/176 AKL-PER cancelled
NZ28/29 AKL-IAH cancelled

https://www.airnewzealand.com.au/travel-alerts

RB211trent · Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:17 pm

WIederling wrote:
Balerit wrote:
I wonder if this issue will affect the A350?

Turbine blades:
https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/93882925 ... me=600x314

Urgh.
Hot side of the HPT? ( view from the inside combustion chamber to the rear? )

That’s the last stage of the LP Turbine. Viewed from the exhaust nozzle.

WIederling · Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:46 pm

RB211trent wrote:
That’s the last stage of the LP Turbine. Viewed from the exhaust nozzle.

So there is a full blown "bloodbath" upstream?

NZ321 · Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:21 am

What do you mean?

qf789 · Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:40 am

Latest travel update from NZ

For Monday
As previously reported both NZ175/176 AKL-PER and NZ28/29 AKL-IAH are cancelled
NZ282/281 AKL-SIN will see premium 789 operate instead of usual 789
NZ103/104 AKL-SYD 772 replaces 789

For Tuesday
Both NZ282/281 and NZ103/104 will operate as per Monday

Wednesday
NZ97/98 AKL-KIX is cancelled
NZ175/176 AKL-PER is cancelled

https://www.airnewzealand.com.au/travel-alerts

Zkpilot · Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:11 am

NZ has secured an A340 and an A330 from Hi Fly Portugal on wetlease (Crew included) to operate some AKL-SYD services and all AKL-PER services for the next couple of weeks at least.
From what I can tell the Hi Fly birds are quite nicely configured. I'm sure NZ will have a couple of flight attendants onboard (in a non-operational role just a customer service role). They have said it should mean next to no disruption once up and running.

Aesma · Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:23 pm

Balerit wrote:
I wonder if this issue will affect the A350?

Turbine blades:

Wow, no wonder it was shaking !

zkncj · Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:39 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
NZ has secured an A340 and an A330 from Hi Fly Portugal on wetlease (Crew included) to operate some AKL-SYD services and all AKL-PER services for the next couple of weeks at least.
From what I can tell the Hi Fly birds are quite nicely configured. I'm sure NZ will have a couple of flight attendants onboard (in a non-operational role just a customer service role). They have said it should mean next to no disruption once up and running.

The 343 they are getting doesn’t look to bad as it’s ex EK, would assume the F cabin is used for J and the J Cabin is used for PE.

Looking at there website depending on what 332 we get, some of the cabins look pretty bad, and the J product average. One would hope J and PE passengers get offers something to make up for the sub-stand product.

AirlineCritic · Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:46 pm

Yikes. It will be interesting to know what caused this!

ZaphodHarkonnen · Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:07 pm

NZ321 wrote:
What do you mean?

Something towards the front of the engine broke off or something was ingested. As it went through the engine it was broken into pieces which then basically shredded the turbine blades and stators after the combustion chamber. The engine will have to be pulled apart to find out precisely what happened. But it's likely the damage is throughout the engine compressor and turbine sections. If that is a picture of one of the engines then the thing is pretty much scrap now.

Zkpilot · Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:53 pm

Here is the latest on the Hi Fly aircraft schedule:
Flight # From To Aircraft type Aircraft Travel Period
NZ101
NZ105
NZ705 AKL SYD A340-300 343 15 Dec 17-31 Jan 18

NZ102
NZ108
NZ708 SYD AKL A340-300 343 15 Dec 17-31 Jan 18

NZ175 AKL PER A330-200 332 16 Dec 17-31 Jan 18

NZ176 PER AKL A330-200 332 16 Dec 17-31 Jan 18
There will be 4x NZ cabin crew onboard each flight for customer service/experience.

RB211trent · Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:25 pm

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
What do you mean?

Something towards the front of the engine broke off or something was ingested. As it went through the engine it was broken into pieces which then basically shredded the turbine blades and stators after the combustion chamber. The engine will have to be pulled apart to find out precisely what happened. But it's likely the damage is throughout the engine compressor and turbine sections. If that is a picture of one of the engines then the thing is pretty much scrap now.

Not scrap at all, IP turbine rearwards only.

Balerit · Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:43 am

So it looks like an IPT blade broke off.

Balerit · Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:48 am

Balerit wrote:
I wonder if this issue will affect the A350?

Turbine blades:

7BOEING7 · Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:14 am

zeke wrote:
ikramerica wrote:
The pilots purposely turn off non essential power draws during a shutdown to confirm the single engine is doing its job. Then power is restored to some systems.

That is news to me, bus ties would be all automatic when the generators go offline on the failed engine. Load shedding would also be automatic. Any load shedding should be restored when the APU is started and online.

Actually on the 777/787 load shedding will start the recovery process immediately +\- restoring as much as possible with available electric power and picking up the rest if and when the APU comes online.

JayBCNLON · Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:53 am

I have always believed that twin engine planes should be banned from flying Australia/New Zealand to South America .... I wouldn’t want that to happen to me half way over the South Pacific with nowhere to land for hours of flight, no matter how “fail-safe” twin operations are said to be these days.

ZK-NBT · Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:03 am

JayBCNLON wrote:
I have always believed that twin engine planes should be banned from flying Australia/New Zealand to South America .... I wouldn’t want that to happen to me half way over the South Pacific with nowhere to land for hours of flight, no matter how “fail-safe” twin operations are said to be these days.

They were effectively banned as you say from this route until very recently, LA started using 787’s to AKL in 2015 becoming the first carrier to do so on this route, NZ started in late 2015 with 772’s then 789’s, it’s currently using 772’s again as the 789 fleet has had it’s ETOPS downgraded after these 2 incidents for the moment.

zkncj · Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:45 am

JayBCNLON wrote:
I have always believed that twin engine planes should be banned from flying Australia/New Zealand to South America .... I wouldn’t want that to happen to me half way over the South Pacific with nowhere to land for hours of flight, no matter how “fail-safe” twin operations are said to be these days.

But really we're the DC8s flying AKL-LAX via the Island fuel stops any better? Or the Shorts Flying boats between Auckland an Sydney?

KarelXWB · Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:18 am

NZ engine issues should be resolved by April:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ap-446110/

Air New Zealand expects that the issues plaguing the Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 engines that power its fleet of eight Boeing 787-9s will be resolved by around the middle of April.

Chief executive of the Star Alliance carrier Christopher Luxon says that the airline “has made great progress” on replacing intermediate turbine pressure blades in the engines following two incidents in December that caused 787s to return to Auckland.

Tedd · Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:35 am

Thanks Karel for this latest update re Trent 1000 blade issues. It`s very good news RR have done their
best in clearing up this problem for ANZ, I sincerely hope it`s the same for all their other customers too.
I wonder if this fiasco ( if that's not too dramatic ) will damage RR`s reputation to the point where they
could lose future new orders, or even lose some of their customer business on the B787? I think the
latter is less likely particularly if they`ve been seen to have dealt with this problem in a sympathetic
& efficient manner as above, but how would Emirates be viewing the "blade issue" in relation to assessing
their upcoming engine choice. We know all new engines are fine now, & that the latest T1000-Ten is a
very decent improvement over the T1000 in efficiency terms, but can RR expect to see improved sales
of the new varient they`d have hoped for actually materialise?

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