mattyfitzg
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Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:30 pm

Hey guys,

I’m sure this topic has been posted previously, however I’ve just read into their planned operation, and it strikes me as incredibly brave and/or stupid.
I’m certainly no expert so do you think they will be able to survive against the likes of BA/VS/UA/DL/DY or do you think it’s going to flop???

I see they’re also going to chime into the short haul market from stansted with Malaga and Alicante being added
Last edited by mattyfitzg on Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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tommyarias
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:49 pm

They are targeting different market segments. Comparing Primera Air with legacy carriers is like comparing Ryanair with BA flying to the same places out of London. The main competitors with Primera Air will be airlines like WOW Air and Norwegian, that operate those low cost, leisure long haul flights.
"Insert Generic Signature or Quote" - Generic Name
 
mattyfitzg
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:43 pm

tommyarias wrote:
They are targeting different market segments. Comparing Primera Air with legacy carriers is like comparing Ryanair with BA flying to the same places out of London. The main competitors with Primera Air will be airlines like WOW Air and Norwegian, that operate those low cost, leisure long haul flights.


Understand that, but out of CDG they'll be competing directly with the legacy airlines, do you actually think it's going to work? or have they bitten off more than they can chew?

Also, in London I notice there is a lack of (None whatsoever) advertising from Primera, apart from on social media, how are they expecting to fill a daily flight to Newark if people are unaware of the brand? They come top of the search for flights on Expedia and Skyscanner though, every time.
Again, from Stansted and Birmingham they've also now opened short haul routes to Spain, I believe from Birmingham they may have got something, filling the gap for Monarch, but at stansted they'll be competing with Jet2, Ryanair and Easyjet.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:56 pm

mattyfitzg wrote:
Also, in London I notice there is a lack of (None whatsoever) advertising from Primera, apart from on social media, how are they expecting to fill a daily flight to Newark if people are unaware of the brand? They come top of the search for flights on Expedia and Skyscanner though, every time.


Why would people using social media be unaware of the brand then ? And people using search engines to book flights, simple enter their departure/arrival points and let the software do the rest. The only people perhaps 'unaware' will be traditionalists who only experience brands via traditional advertising methods. Billboards, tv/radio, magazines etc...
 
by738
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:06 pm

is there any other opportunities for UK Transatlantic Primera routes?
 
TC957
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:15 pm

Primera would well to fully support the UK travel trade to get behind their transatlantic venture. So far little or minimal awareness in the travel trade.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:20 pm

It'll work for them, no doubt about that. The trick is that not everybody needs to know about their flights, only the people that fly them. That's a very small group, but enough to get their planes filled.
 
andymartin
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:30 pm

8 hours + on a 321, no thanks!
 
mattyfitzg
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:09 pm

andymartin wrote:
8 hours + on a 321, no thanks!


But a big yes please to 8 hours on a twin-aisle with exactly the same seat dimensions and legroom?
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:09 pm

andymartin wrote:
8 hours + on a 321, no thanks!


Why not? The aircraft is perfectly capable of flying that route and the seats are no different from any other aircraft. What's the problem?
 
Randeman
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:59 pm

    mattyfitzg wrote:
    andymartin wrote:
    8 hours + on a 321, no thanks!


    But a big yes please to 8 hours on a twin-aisle with exactly the same seat dimensions and legroom?

    When a widebody provides a little extra space to get up and stretch your legs? Yes!
     
    RJNUT
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    Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

    Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:05 pm

    I looked at their website. They had a decent premium economy on TATL flights that seem priced right and would consider checking out.
     
    Cunard
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    Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

    Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:00 pm

    PatrickZ80 wrote:
    It'll work for them, no doubt about that. The trick is that not everybody needs to know about their flights, only the people that fly them. That's a very small group, but enough to get their planes filled.


    That's a ridiculous statement although I wish PRIMERA all the best on their new transatlantic routes from BHX and STN but when you state 'that's a very small group, but enough to get their planes filled', BUT how often will that 'very small group' be traveling not very often I would have thought.

    I think PRIMERA will need more than 'a very small group' to fill their aircraft year round.

    But I will say it again though, I wish PRIMERA all the very best on these routes.
    94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
     
    mattyfitzg
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    Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

    Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:51 pm

    Check these extra fees out!
    https://primeraair.com/travel-info/fees/

    £16 for a sandwich and soft drink! :lol:
     
    VSMUT
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    Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

    Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:25 pm

    I'm no fan of Primera, but we must not forget that Norwegian started from more or less the same point back in the day, and Wow was much smaller when they decided it was time for A330s. They could do it, so why shouldn't Primera give it a chance as well, with smaller and more manageable aircraft too?

    Worst case, they can just relegate these A321s and 737MAX' to the charter flying that they have traditionally always done.
     
    VSMUT
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    Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

    Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:37 pm

    mattyfitzg wrote:
    Check these extra fees out!
    https://primeraair.com/travel-info/fees/

    £16 for a sandwich and soft drink! :lol:


    Yeah, you aren't kidding. A premium beef or fish meal for 60 eur! I could have that at a good restaurant in Switzerland and still have money left over!
     
    Cipango
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    Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

    Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:20 pm

    mattyfitzg wrote:
    Check these extra fees out!
    https://primeraair.com/travel-info/fees/

    £16 for a sandwich and soft drink! :lol:

    The biggest mystery is what currency conversion software they have?

    The USD and CAD prices are hugely inflated with real conversion rates.

    On transatlantic flights it is £19.99 for seat selection or $39.99? 1 x checked bag is £24.99 or $44.99?
    Let's fly! Unless it's on a CRJ 200, then I'll stay down here.
     
    AirFrance744
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    Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

    Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:40 pm

    mattyfitzg wrote:
    tommyarias wrote:
    They are targeting different market segments. Comparing Primera Air with legacy carriers is like comparing Ryanair with BA flying to the same places out of London. The main competitors with Primera Air will be airlines like WOW Air and Norwegian, that operate those low cost, leisure long haul flights.


    Understand that, but out of CDG they'll be competing directly with the legacy airlines, do you actually think it's going to work? or have they bitten off more than they can chew?

    Also, in London I notice there is a lack of (None whatsoever) advertising from Primera, apart from on social media, how are they expecting to fill a daily flight to Newark if people are unaware of the brand? They come top of the search for flights on Expedia and Skyscanner though, every time.
    Again, from Stansted and Birmingham they've also now opened short haul routes to Spain, I believe from Birmingham they may have got something, filling the gap for Monarch, but at stansted they'll be competing with Jet2, Ryanair and Easyjet.


    What tommy was saying is that Primera isn't competing much, if at all, with the leagcies. The legacies are going after the premium passengers and the VFR passengers that are willing to spend more for a well known brand and comfortable experience. Primera is going after the passengers that are interested in traveling only if it can be done for very cheap, even if it means high fees for common amenities. These passengers are extremely price sensitive; it's an entirely different segment of the air travel market. That's why I agree with tommy that they are not competing too much with the legacies.

    Regarding the advertising, I think you answered your own question. At most offices I have worked at (I don't work in the aviation industry), people always talk about how they wish they could got to Europe, but don't have the money. As soon as DY and WOW came into the market at BOS, everyone was talking about them, not because they saw their ads on the side of the highway, nor saw any commercials or social media posts, but because they are doing searches on travel website like skyscanner, kayak, expedia, etc. As I said these passengers are very price sensitive, so they always looking around for an amazing deal, and they will finally take the leap and go on their first/dream trip to Europe because they saw that deal on a travel site.
    Flown over 150,000 miles! Native Bostonian living in Orlando.
     
    7673mech
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    Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

    Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:03 pm

    Cipango wrote:
    mattyfitzg wrote:
    Check these extra fees out!
    https://primeraair.com/travel-info/fees/

    £16 for a sandwich and soft drink! :lol:

    The biggest mystery is what currency conversion software they have?

    The USD and CAD prices are hugely inflated with real conversion rates.

    On transatlantic flights it is £19.99 for seat selection or $39.99? 1 x checked bag is £24.99 or $44.99?


    Not saying it's the case here but sometimes airlines charge more based on where you originate or where you are from. My wife and I travel S. America a lot, her non US passport saves her 100's over what I have to pay.
     
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    kjeld0d
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    Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

    Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:25 pm

    Primera? Isn't that an insurance company?
     
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    VS4ever
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    Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

    Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:32 am

    If, as we say PF are looking for the cheap and cheerful market, then 2 things surprise me for their BOS flights in particular Firstly even choosing BOS, because PVD down the road would be a whole lot cheaper than BOS, now there you are up against D8 to an extent, but still cheaper and Secondly, the timings used picked a super busy time for Internationals at BOS and the return to STN and BHX in particular is around 9am, which i am sure is also not a relatively cheap time. Frankly i am surprised they didn't take a leaf out of MT's book and take a try and get an early time around 5.30pm which gets you back to the UK around 4.30-5am, or the other way and go later and get in closer to noon. These price sensitive folks will have taken all manner of flights out of the UK and back at all times of the day and night, so really won't care if the arrival is early or late, surely an off-peak timing has to be cheaper right?
    Now don't get me wrong, I am a huge Logan fan as many on here will testify and can't wait to see PF join the rest of the bunch here, along with wishing them every success (they are starting from what is essentially my home airport in the UK (BHX)), but this one just doesn't seem right for the market they are going after and much more suited to the developments at PVD.
    That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
     
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    PatrickZ80
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    Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

    Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:08 am

    kjeld0d wrote:
    Primera? Isn't that an insurance company?


    I guess so, it's a name for many things. In the Netherlands we have a chain of book stores that's called Primera. And of course, it's also an airline.
     
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    PatrickZ80
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    Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

    Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:14 am

    VS4ever wrote:
    If, as we say PF are looking for the cheap and cheerful market, then 2 things surprise me for their BOS flights in particular Firstly even choosing BOS, because PVD down the road would be a whole lot cheaper than BOS, now there you are up against D8 to an extent, but still cheaper and Secondly, the timings used picked a super busy time for Internationals at BOS and the return to STN and BHX in particular is around 9am, which i am sure is also not a relatively cheap time. Frankly i am surprised they didn't take a leaf out of MT's book and take a try and get an early time around 5.30pm which gets you back to the UK around 4.30-5am, or the other way and go later and get in closer to noon. These price sensitive folks will have taken all manner of flights out of the UK and back at all times of the day and night, so really won't care if the arrival is early or late, surely an off-peak timing has to be cheaper right?
    Now don't get me wrong, I am a huge Logan fan as many on here will testify and can't wait to see PF join the rest of the bunch here, along with wishing them every success (they are starting from what is essentially my home airport in the UK (BHX)), but this one just doesn't seem right for the market they are going after and much more suited to the developments at PVD.


    Such things are still possible as there isn't that much TATL LCC competition yet. Of course what you describe is cheaper, but since nobody does that yet they can get away with the more expensive option. As soon as the competition moves in with a cheaper alternative like you described, they're out. There's always money to be saved, but if nobody does then why should you?
     
    jubguy3
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    Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

    Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:16 am

    Primera Air has the brand appeal of a cargo airline
     
    Jerry123
    Posts: 321
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    Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

    Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:30 am

    VS4ever wrote:
    If, as we say PF are looking for the cheap and cheerful market, then 2 things surprise me for their BOS flights in particular Firstly even choosing BOS, because PVD down the road would be a whole lot cheaper than BOS, now there you are up against D8 to an extent, but still cheaper and Secondly, the timings used picked a super busy time for Internationals at BOS and the return to STN and BHX in particular is around 9am, which i am sure is also not a relatively cheap time. Frankly i am surprised they didn't take a leaf out of MT's book and take a try and get an early time around 5.30pm which gets you back to the UK around 4.30-5am, or the other way and go later and get in closer to noon. These price sensitive folks will have taken all manner of flights out of the UK and back at all times of the day and night, so really won't care if the arrival is early or late, surely an off-peak timing has to be cheaper right?
    Now don't get me wrong, I am a huge Logan fan as many on here will testify and can't wait to see PF join the rest of the bunch here, along with wishing them every success (they are starting from what is essentially my home airport in the UK (BHX)), but this one just doesn't seem right for the market they are going after and much more suited to the developments at PVD.

    I think they want to differentiate themselves from Norwegian. In a recent interview one of their executives made a point in saying they were going to fly people to where they wanted to actually go not 60 to 80 miles away.
     
    arcticcruiser
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    Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

    Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:43 am

    If people think the employment practices of Norwegian are questionable, they should take a look at Primera. Moving from country to country to avoid employment laws, until they found the lowest denominator.
     
    aerogt3
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    Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

    Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:00 am

    mattyfitzg wrote:
    Understand that, but out of CDG they'll be competing directly with the legacy airlines, do you actually think it's going to work? or have they bitten off more than they can chew?

    Also, in London I notice there is a lack of (None whatsoever) advertising from Primera, apart from on social media, how are they expecting to fill a daily flight to Newark if people are unaware of the brand? They come top of the search for flights on Expedia and Skyscanner though, every time.


    The top of the search results is all the marketing they need for their target customer. Obviously not going to capture the corporate business traveler this way, but an unknown airline coming up at the top of search results filtered by price will sell a lot more tickets than an airline you've seen hundreds of TV spots from but whose fares are three times more expensive :P

    mattyfitzg wrote:
    andymartin wrote:
    8 hours + on a 321, no thanks!


    But a big yes please to 8 hours on a twin-aisle with exactly the same seat dimensions and legroom?


    Larger aircraft have advantages besides seat width/pitch. There's more restrooms, they're closer to my seat, more space to stand up, higher ceilings, more likely to have IFE, and way more overhead bin space. On an 8 hour flight, being able to put my small bag or jacket in storage is a huge plus over losing what little legroom I have. And I find the 320/737 way noisier than the 330/777/787/350, which on a long flight is a *huge* advantage, to me at least.
     
    Sksf19
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    Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Flights 2018

    Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:06 pm

    Anybody know which terminal will be used at CDG/EWR/BOS?
    And any ideas on when the delivery date is or the first 321neo as I can’t find anything on any delivery schedules

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